WELDING and USING BRAKE CLEANER!! READ THIS!!

[SickSpeedMonte]

I did a search for the link and it didn't come up, so I figured I'd post this.

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

[shiro666]

Woah! Thanks for the heads up.

That is terrifying!

[Blake Foster]

WE had a simular issue in that if someone was tig welding and even using brakeclean accross the shop the fumes were really bad!!! like 50 feet away, and we had to clear out the shop, since then we have changed to the enviro brake clean and the problem is gone, NEVER clean metal parts with any chemical cleaner prior to welding is now the rule.

[GregWeld]

I just sent this article to my entire car club --- Northwest Classic Chevy Club --- thanks for this heads up!! I use brake cleaner for almost everything around my home shop -- and ALWAYS have cleaned metal prior to welding with the stuff!! I can tell you that practice has ceased as of right now!!

[Aschle]

Thank you for potentially saving one of our lives by passing this on !!!

Jason

[70rs]

Thank you for posting this. I have done this in the past and I guess been VERY lucky! Change in proceedure as of right now!
I hope the word gets out quickly, thanks again!

[awr68]

Thanks for posting this!!

[BritishGreen68]

wow thats crazy that is something i could have easily done, never occurred to me it could be that big of a problem.. thanks for the post..

[redfire69]

Thanks for the heads up.

[SickSpeedMonte]

I couldn't believe it when I read this. We all know burning chemicals is bad, but this combination with the argon is just unreal. I'm glad that I can contrubute something useful to this community.

Maybe a moderator should change the title to something more attention grabbing. I struggled with what to name it, and I was contacted by a fellow member, saying that he almost didn't read it.

[66LS7]

I know somewhere sometime we used that type of cleaner to clean up some metal before welding & never had anything bad happen luckily. Thanks for the posting.:lateral:

Thank You
Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

[ccracin]

Thanks for posting. I can't use Brake Clean at all. As soon as I smell it I get sick immediately. I can be 50ft. away and if I get a slight smell of it I get nauseous.

[OLDFLM]

Very Scary indeed!! Thanks for the lookout! I remember my mom doing something similar as a kid when mopping the basement with bleach and vinegar... or maybe it was amonia... anyway, the white chlorine smoke that she thought was steam knocked her out cold!

[SickSpeedMonte]

Very Scary indeed!! Thanks for the lookout! I remember my mom doing something similar as a kid when mopping the basement with bleach and vinegar... or maybe it was amonia... anyway, the white chlorine smoke that she thought was steam knocked her out cold!

My grandmother did the same thing with bleach and ammonia.

[GregWeld]

I couldn't believe it when I read this. We all know burning chemicals is bad, but this combination with the argon is just unreal. I'm glad that I can contrubute something useful to this community.

Maybe a moderator should change the title to something more attention grabbing. I struggled with what to name it, and I was contacted by a fellow member, saying that he almost didn't read it.


Sick --

I did PM you about the title --- as I said to you --- I don't know what I'd call the title -- but I just about passed up reading it... because "very scary" could be a ride you had in a twin turbo whatever -- but that doesn't mean I'd be particularly interested in reading how close you came to a "shorts change". :lol:

There are so many people on this site that weld -- and weld at home -- or in shops -- that probably also use this stuff all the time..... I can't imagine that everyone is aware of this particularly bad combo of chemicals. And agree with the writer - that nobody reads the 'warning' on stuff anymore. Everything comes with some warning now.

Maybe "WELDERS!!! AND USING BRAKE CLEANER!! READ THIS POST!!

I don't know -- MODS -- come on -- we need to get this info out there!! Please?

[Vegas69]

Important Welding Safety Precaution:unibrow:

[byndbad914]

wow, I too am glad you posted this, and admittedly, almost didn't read due to the title and figuring it was either some silly pic or story, but am sure glad I did! I use brake clean to clean my race car all the time - it knocks the grime right off of stuff - so I use it religiously and appreciate the caution!

Feel REALLY bad for that guy too, holy crap, he is going to have problems for life from one little puff of smoke, and it is an honest mistake he made IMO and any one of us could do something like that and assume it's no big deal. I wouldn't have put the argon and burning brake cleaner together (especially at 4 ppm little smoke tuft) just because I saw a name like phosgene nor would I take the time to look it up before proceeding in the garage!

[awr68]

I changed the title and made it a sticky....lets hope it saves someone!! Nice work team!! :lateral:

[ProTouring442]

Here is the link to the CDC's "Facts about Phosgene" page. Many of the symptoms "Brew Dude" had do not seem to be a result of his exposure to Phosgene, so I question his assertions about them. Nonetheless, we need to remember to be cautious!

CDC Page: http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[GregWeld]

After reading the CDC info (thanks for that link!) it seems to me that it's not just a brake cleaner issue --- but a CHLORINE and Welding (high heat) problem.... I didn't find any info relating to just the chemicals in Brake Cleaner and nothing mentioned about Argon gas. So for me, at least, I'm not going to just discontinue the use of brake cleaner - but any product with chlorine in it.

I'll hit AirGas supply today and ask them what they know - if anything - about this bad combo. Would be interesting to see if the sales people there have any warnings to add.

[brian mc]

I heard something similar about WD-40 that it turns into a poisonis gas when exposed to high heat like welding or torching, i didn't research it, just heard it from an old-timer who worked in a shipyard....

[Patrick]

Wow....that is F'ing scary. I use brake clean all the time. Thank you for posting this article.

[awr68]

Greg did you find out anything today at AirGas? Do they know of any cleaner that is safe to use?

[rwhite692]

Thanks for posting that!

Wasn't Phosgene used at one time as a chemical weapon?

Oh wait, here we go:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene

[BlkBird]

Wow....and as fast as brake cleaner evaporates you would think the heat would've made it "go away" well before he got close enough to really hit it....you never know what's gonna get you, do you?!

[RaceMan]

Wow !!! Good info Thanks !!!!!! :thumbsup:

[jst8a5.0]

Yeah that's scary! I used brake cleaner because I thought it would be effective. There was one particular incident about a year ago where no matter what I did with the settings and how I cleaned the aluminum, it would not weld without getting nasty. I finally called up Thermal Dynamics and he immediately asked what I used to clean it. I said brake cleaner and he cut me off and said, "Did you smell sour apples?" I told him yeah and he told me that smell is a toxic gas and can kill me with a few wiffs. He told me the only chemical to clean aluminum that was "safe" was acetone.

[GregWeld]

Yeah that's scary! I used brake cleaner because I thought it would be effective. There was one particular incident about a year ago where no matter what I did with the settings and how I cleaned the aluminum, it would not weld without getting nasty. I finally called up Thermal Dynamics and he immediately asked what I used to clean it. I said brake cleaner and he cut me off and said, "Did you smell sour apples?" I told him yeah and he told me that smell is a toxic gas and can kill me with a few wiffs. He told me the only chemical to clean aluminum that was "safe" was acetone.

Okay... but now I'm curious as to what was the cause of the bad welding?? Is that related to using Brake Cleaner as well??

Seriously -- I'm going to AirGas on Monday to see what they recommend as a cleaner - because after learning of the Phosgene gas thing - I really don't want to inhale any "burning chemicals" --- I quit doing that back in high school! :rofl:

[jst8a5.0]

Okay... but now I'm curious as to what was the cause of the bad welding??

Me too!! LOL!! As I think back, maybe some clear coat had settled on that particular piece because I cleaned, wire brushed, pre heated, set the welder to max clean to bury the impurities (not a common practice at my shop). Yeah I felt like I was asking directions because I was admittedly lost. LOL! When you weld anything, material and filler rod need to be clean to get great results. Aluminum is particularly picky about being clean before welding. Just don't use brake cleaner. If you do multiple tasks in your shop or work space like I do, keep your metal covered and your filler wire out of the elements however you can.

[GregWeld]

I keep all my TIG filler in gasketed tubes... CLEAN and DRY and dust free... I just label the outside with a sharpie...

I even scuff the edge etc on aluminum - even with the 'cleaning action' (I have a Miller Dynasty 200 DX)... I guess maybe I'm old skool... :lol:

[jannes_z-28]

I had a bad experience once with brake cleaner and a vacuum cleaner.

Cleaning a grease spot on a carpet in my car and then after that I vacuumed the mats. It killed my vacuumcleaner as the fumes from the brakecleaner caught fire inside the it with a loud boof. Not a big problem since I was outside and the vacuumcleaner was out of the car.

It looked liked it had got on afterburner :rofl:


Jan

[Travis77]

Phosgene- AKA Mustard Gas

[Jim's 72]

Hope nobody minds,(which I doubt) but I posted this over at FGMCC.com just to let the "boys" know. We do tend to get lax in the saftey part of things.
Jim

[70rs]

It should be posted as many places as possible. I did see it at Teamchevelle.com and teamcamaro.com and protouring.com. The more people aware of it the less chance of another accident.

[Big-Head]

Ive always used Brake Clean before welding... not anymore!!!! Im a lucky man.

Thanks for posting this. I really appreciate it man!

Thanks!