Project or purchase? any advice welcome.

[TIATO]

Good evening!

I wanted to take a minute to get some advice on building a car vs. buying a car. I love to take part in HPDE's. I've had a 01 BMW M5 and a 01 Z06 that i have both tracked (mostly Mid-Ohio because of location). I am at the point in my life where i would like to step up to another vehicle as all i currently own as a toy is a 67 DeVille (cigar car) and i really miss the track. If i have a budget of 50K would it be feasable to purchase a 66-67 Chevelle and make it capable at a road course (please read comparable to either of the previous track vehicles i have had) or should i buy a C6Z or maybe an E60 M5. Obviously i would prefer the Chevelle but is it a reality to build a reliable track car for that kind of money?

I am not looking for a show car so the body will not be perfect. I have looked around and think i can get into one for 10 to 15K that would meet my needs as far as looks. I have also looked into frame swaps and find the Schwartz chassis very appealing. Im already at 30k+ and havent bought an engine. I look forward to hearing from anyone about their experience with their builds. Also i guess the X-factor... was it worth it when you went over budget? HA

Thank you so much.

Rob

[Jimi-FM3]

Hey Rob,

I'll tell you my story - I have a 69 AMX that I have been working on for a number of years, I finally have it just about done. My goal was to build the car to do track days and autocross, open road race and some street duty. I've gone all out with Hotchkis, Global West, Mustang GT and Brembo parts along with a lot of other hand fabbed stuff (because it's an AMC), 6 point cage, four wheel discs, Good Year F1's - you get the picture! Anyway, I started looking just this year for a Corvette, because $40K and a nice AMX still doesn't hold a candle to the Vette! My point? If it took my this far to get the AMX to a substandard level compared to a Vette, what's it gonna take for a much larger and heavier beast like the Chevelle? Go with the Vette, you won't be disappointed and there's a lot of bolt on mods that make them untouchable!

[JamesJ]

If you can buy a car then the only two reason to build, as opposed to buy car are if you are so picky that you have to have everything just the way you want it or you will not be happy, or you just like building them.

There are many others but it really comes down to that...

[GregWeld]

I owned an '08 M5 -- hated that car... all sales hype.. gutless pig at anything less than about 5000 rpm's. Don't even get me started on that crap transmission and clutch set up....

For 50K -- buy a used Corvette.... some good tires - some good brake pads - drive the wheels off of it.

50K isn't going to get you much of a "track car" - if you start out at 10/15K for a body... add a motor capable of going to the track - and the tranny - now suspension - wheels - tires - brakes - proper seats - harness - gauges... and forget about LABOR to put it all together.

There's my 1 cent worth. LOL

[GregWeld]

I've done Bondurant ZO6's in AridZona -- and Spring Mountain Motorsports in Nevada... drove those 'Vettes like they were stolen -- all day - beating on them HARD... windows rolled up and the A/C on... no brake fade... no squeaks... no weak clutch... no steaming from the radiators...

Roll 'em up -- and do it all again the next day...

Funny story about Spring Mountain -- upon checking into the hotel - one of my buddies said to the elderly clerk - "besides casinos... what's the next biggest thing in Pahrump"? "Hookers" he replied... We stayed with the casino action.

[cmraman]

Good evening!

I wanted to take a minute to get some advice on building a car vs. buying a car. I love to take part in HPDE's. I've had a 01 BMW M5 and a 01 Z06 that i have both tracked (mostly Mid-Ohio because of location). I am at the point in my life where i would like to step up to another vehicle as all i currently own as a toy is a 67 DeVille (cigar car) and i really miss the track. If i have a budget of 50K would it be feasable to purchase a 66-67 Chevelle and make it capable at a road course (please read comparable to either of the previous track vehicles i have had) or should i buy a C6Z or maybe an E60 M5. Obviously i would prefer the Chevelle but is it a reality to build a reliable track car for that kind of money?

I am not looking for a show car so the body will not be perfect. I have looked around and think i can get into one for 10 to 15K that would meet my needs as far as looks. I have also looked into frame swaps and find the Schwartz chassis very appealing. Im already at 30k+ and havent bought an engine. I look forward to hearing from anyone about their experience with their builds. Also i guess the X-factor... was it worth it when you went over budget? HA

Thank you so much.

Rob

Talk to Randy Johnson about his Chevelle. He is a member here. He has a Schwartz chassis on it and beats the snot out of it. Also talk to Jeff Schwartz about his chassis and their design. I do know that Randy and Jeff tested Randy's chevelle on a skid pad and the car pulled 1.08g. I think a off the shelf Z06 only does .97g. Just my .02

[NOT A TA]

Predictability, reliability, ease of maintenance, resale, insurance, safety, performance, and instant gratification can all be had with a modern track car. Whether it be a Corvette, Porsche, BMW, Lotus or whatever. With equal expenditures and equal drivers they'll run circles around most old cars without the time, effort and hassles of an old car. Thats why you don't see lots of old cars out at the tracks. Common sense says, get the new cars.

Have you considered buying someones sorted race car and trailer? For the money you mentioned you could buy something like a spec Miata or BMW, a trailer, (you said Ohio so I assume you've got a truck to pull it) and still have enough money left over to go to a competition driving school, get a race license, AND race for a while.

That said, there's a certain feeling in an old car you don't get in a new car. I run in the HPDEs and for me it's a nostalgic kind of thing. They're less refined and you're not as isolated from the environment. I can see the hood and fenders, smell the burned leaded race fuel, hear the electric fuel pump whine and the roar of open sidepipes. There's no traction control or antilock brakes to help me. I'm the traction controller and antilock brain. It's a pain crawling into the cage and squeezing into the full containment seats then strapping into 6 point harnesses and dropping the steering wheel into position. But once you flip a couple switches, remove the safety clips on the fire system pulls and start it up, there's no doubt you're in a special car. Not just a car anyone can go to the local dealer and buy. As for speed, no matter what you have there's always someone faster. I give them a point by and a wave.

[Vegas69]

You build a car for one reason...the love of the game. It's not cheap, and it sure as hell isn't easy.

[Fluid Power]

You build a car for one reason...the love of the game. It's not cheap, and it sure as hell isn't easy.

Amen Brother.

Darren

[TIATO]

Thank you all for the responses. Everyone has a great point and the last response is what i am going back and forth about. My old man had a 66 Chevelle growing up and i think it would be great to include him in my hobby and have something for him to cruise around in as well. I have talked to Randy Johnson a couple times and although he is more than helpful his finish will far exceed anything i could ever create myself or finance. Touch choices but again thank you everyone for sharing your time and thoughts with me. Please feel free to continue to respond and i will let everyone know what i decide.

Rob

[Scotch]

Do you want to be the fastest guy at the track?

...or the coolest?

Anyone can buy a Corvette if they have the dough. They are awesome cars, but hardly uncommon.

Not just anyone has a vintage musclecar that's quick enough to keep the Vette drivers honest about their talent on-track.

I built a wagon. It's just upgraded with bolt-ons to the stock chassis. It's a blast to drive everywhere. I autocrossed it on an itty bitty course for the first time since getting it all together after owning it for 5 years. I just wanted it to perform well so I can take it to bigger tracks with some confidence.

Anyway- it did really well and my times were better than some F-bodies and some Mustangs. That says more about them not being good drivers than it does about my wagon, but you get the idea. I was happy the wagon did well, and it was cool.

I have a '65 LeMans and a Schwartz chassis. I have a Currie 9-inch and an EFI'd 601ci Pontiac V-8 that made 740 on the engine dyno. When i get it all together, I hope to keep the Vette drivers honest with it.

...and I'll tow it to the track with the wagon.

I know there will be faster guys out there, but I doubt I'll see another pair of capable cars like mine. (except that Derek Keifer guy. He's got a killer '69 Chevelle and a '66 Chevelle wagon. Damn copycat..)

So you know how I'd answer my own questions...

[clill]

For a dedicated track car that will outrun what you had......A old 90 something Nascar set up for road course. Nice ones can be had for 40Kish making 750 hp. Since Nascar went to the Car of Tomorrow the old cars are outdated but still very very fast. More and more people getting into them. Look around on racingjunk.com.

[rallye455]

If I had to do it again I would buy something finished. I have WAY more in my car than I ever would of thought and I am still no where near finished.