Hyd to Solid cam conversion

[Cristián]

Hi guys, I need some help.

I want to buy a new mechanic cam for my sbc 350 engine. Right now it has a Crane Cam with rpm range of 2800-6200 (284H it´s the part number if i´m not wrong). Wanted to step up to a solid with of 3000-7000 aprox. but I need to be sure in first place of the considerations for the engine.

Heres my questions, hope you can help me:
- Is it really necessary to plug studs in the heads?
- Stronger or shorter pushrods are needed?

Thats all for now, I accept any sugestion and comments. Thanks a lot guys.

Bye!

[70rs]

screw in studs and guide plates should be used and different length pushrods may be needed. You will need to check those and the valve springs to make sure they are correct for the cam.
Good luck!

[GregWeld]

screw in studs and guide plates should be used and different length pushrods may be needed. You will need to check those and the valve springs to make sure they are correct for the cam.
Good luck!

Just to expand on what Eric advised... The valve train is CRITICAL in any engine - especially in one you plan to spin to 7000 rpm's. We used to launch our 277 ci 55 Nomad at about 7200 -- and wind it up from there! LOL

You have several things to check - buy - etc before you just stick a new stick in there.... You need to be concerned with whether or not the springs you have will work with the new cam (spring rate AND size) -- You'll need a push rod length checking tool -- Screw in studs - guide plates if you don't already have them and on and on. Let's not even get into the match up of whether or not your HEADS are capable of delivering the air you need at the lift your cam makes (which might already be an issue...)

I have to ask though -- if your cam is already capable of spinning to 6800 -- what do you think the new cam is going to do for you when it's range is only 7000... What don't you like about your current set up? Why the change?

Have you considered the entire car as a whole? The weight of the car - the size of the motor - the gear ratios - the tire size - the convertor stall (if you have an automatic). The cam you're talking about is what I'd consider a full out DRAG race piece... Driving on the street with that beast would be a horrible experience in my opinion. It would have zero bottom end torque...

Tell us about your car... what you're plans are for it... gears - tires - heads - use etc and maybe some of the 'boys' here can help you get to where you want to go with it.

Just my .02 worth.. LOL

[70rs]

Thanks for explaining that Greg. I forget to add the details sometimes. Other times I can't seem to shut up to save my life.:lol:

[ArisESQ]

my only point if your going from a hydraulic roller to solid roller is to make sure you get a stud girdle and a rev kit. you're gonna find your valvetrain comes out of adjustment pretty frequently with a solid roller, and a good stud girdle will help keep things where they need to be.
and the rev kit is more of a safety to keep you from floating a valve if your planning on revving it up higher.

just my 2 cents! i'm sure someone with more experience will chime in and correct any mistakes i may have made with my comment.

[GregWeld]

Thanks for explaining that Greg. I forget to add the details sometimes. Other times I can't seem to shut up to save my life.:lol:



:lol: Totally!!

I can't shut up either -- and type pretty fast too... sometimes - more often than not - faster than my brain works.


This post sounded like a young gun - that might need a bit more 'info' and food for thought than just the intial question. I think many of us 'been there done that' types take some of this stuff for granted. We alreay know what a big azz cam does/doesn't do... like the old 750 cfm holley on a 265... back in high school... the guy with the stock factory motor - that knew what a timing curve was - always kicked our butts! All he did was re-curve his distributor - while we drowned ourselves in FAT A/F ratios...

I still love the guys that do a big bumpstick in a 9:1 motor -- and can't figure out why it's just a big lumpy TURD... and when I ask them what their cylinder pressure is - they quote the static compression ratio... If they're nice -- I have them come to my house and we do a cylinder pressure check - then I explain cylinder pressure - valve overlap - right sizing a cam to match the heads - and that the 1050 holley they're running isn't helping them either! Oh - and don't get me started on the guys that stick in a brand new MSD distributor - and leave the garage door springs it came with, on it... and the stock stop bushing... Oh god... I chuckle at that one everytime.

[GM Muscle]

:lol: Totally!!

I can't shut up either -- and type pretty fast too... sometimes - more often than not - faster than my brain works.


This post sounded like a young gun - that might need a bit more 'info' and food for thought than just the intial question. I think many of us 'been there done that' types take some of this stuff for granted. We alreay know what a big azz cam does/doesn't do... like the old 750 cfm holley on a 265... back in high school... the guy with the stock factory motor - that knew what a timing curve was - always kicked our butts! All he did was re-curve his distributor - while we drowned ourselves in FAT A/F ratios...

I still love the guys that do a big bumpstick in a 9:1 motor -- and can't figure out why it's just a big lumpy TURD... and when I ask them what their cylinder pressure is - they quote the static compression ratio... If they're nice -- I have them come to my house and we do a cylinder pressure check - then I explain cylinder pressure - valve overlap - right sizing a cam to match the heads - and that the 1050 holley they're running isn't helping them either! Oh - and don't get me started on the guys that stick in a brand new MSD distributor - and leave the garage door springs it came with, on it... and the stock stop bushing... Oh god... I chuckle at that one everytime.

not everyone has been there and done it and not everone is a know it all..

[GregWeld]

not everyone has been there and done it and not everone is a know it all..

Yes - you're right -- and I wasn't trying to be a know it all... but was really just discussing some of the funny things that we (many) have learned along the way... Many times I've done all these things myself - or I wouldn't be able to laugh at them (and myself) now.

I think you may have mistaken the intent of my comments... they were meant to be "things we've all done..." and that there is MUCH to learn when dealing with cars etc.

[GM Muscle]

oh.. i know your intent was all good or otherwise you wouldnt have posted! i wasnt trying to call you a know it all! haha..

[GregWeld]

oh.. i know your intent was all good or otherwise you wouldnt have posted! i wasnt trying to call you a know it all! haha..

I was trying to give the original poster -- some 'things' to think about... or ask about as well... many times in a discussion - someone will mention something... and I'll ask them to please explain it to me. Until I had heard the 'item' mentioned - I might not have ever even thought about it etc.

It took me 35 years to finally figure out there was a relationship between a cam and the heads!! LOL
:cheers:

[GM Muscle]

ive been working on the girlfriends neon all day! its been a long one! but yeah i understand your intent..

[Cristián]

Just to expand on what Eric advised... The valve train is CRITICAL in any engine - especially in one you plan to spin to 7000 rpm's. We used to launch our 277 ci 55 Nomad at about 7200 -- and wind it up from there! LOL

You have several things to check - buy - etc before you just stick a new stick in there.... You need to be concerned with whether or not the springs you have will work with the new cam (spring rate AND size) -- You'll need a push rod length checking tool -- Screw in studs - guide plates if you don't already have them and on and on. Let's not even get into the match up of whether or not your HEADS are capable of delivering the air you need at the lift your cam makes (which might already be an issue...)

I have to ask though -- if your cam is already capable of spinning to 6800 -- what do you think the new cam is going to do for you when it's range is only 7000... What don't you like about your current set up? Why the change?

Have you considered the entire car as a whole? The weight of the car - the size of the motor - the gear ratios - the tire size - the convertor stall (if you have an automatic). The cam you're talking about is what I'd consider a full out DRAG race piece... Driving on the street with that beast would be a horrible experience in my opinion. It would have zero bottom end torque...

Tell us about your car... what you're plans are for it... gears - tires - heads - use etc and maybe some of the 'boys' here can help you get to where you want to go with it.

Just my .02 worth.. LOL

Thanks for the answers!!, I´m constantly reading and learning about cars and engines and this kind of experiences are very helpful.

Well, I´ll try to answer the questions. First of all, the cam change is oriented and hopefully "matched" to the new heads we´re going to use, a set of 64cc camel hump fully ported with big valves. Actually our cam is capable to spin 6500 rpm with a set of 72cc heads, ported by my brother and myself.

Valve springs will be changed for a set recommended for the chosen cam, and so with the others parts that we´ll have to buy.

"What don't you like about your current set up?"
Just tryin to upgrade according to the budget. The current set up for our 350ci is very basic: flat top hyp pistons overboared to 4.040, stock rods and crank, 2800-6400 crane cam and heads a little bit worked.
Gear ratio is 3.42, 4 speed transmission, 265/50/15 tires.

"Why the change?"
Because it would be the next "cheap" upgrade. Forged internal, and full roller set are my wet dream right now, but my pockets are pretty empty haha, so I thought that a cam change should help me.

Hope you can help to make my decision. The car is used to keep my inner balance and my head clean, don´t use it everyday so daily driving is not a big issue, besides, I love agressive idle sound.

Muchas gracias guys,
Cristián Urrutia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qITAw_LIx2g

[GregWeld]

Thanks for the answers!!, I´m constantly reading and learning about cars and engines and this kind of experiences are very helpful.

Well, I´ll try to answer the questions. First of all, the cam change is oriented and hopefully "matched" to the new heads we´re going to use, a set of 64cc camel hump fully ported with big valves. Actually our cam is capable to spin 6500 rpm with a set of 72cc heads, ported by my brother and myself.

Valve springs will be changed for a set recommended for the chosen cam, and so with the others parts that we´ll have to buy.

"What don't you like about your current set up?"
Just tryin to upgrade according to the budget. The current set up for our 350ci is very basic: flat top hyp pistons overboared to 4.040, stock rods and crank, 2800-6400 crane cam and heads a little bit worked.
Gear ratio is 3.42, 4 speed transmission, 265/50/15 tires.

"Why the change?"
Because it would be the next "cheap" upgrade. Forged internal, and full roller set are my wet dream right now, but my pockets are pretty empty haha, so I thought that a cam change should help me.

Hope you can help to make my decision. The car is used to keep my inner balance and my head clean, don´t use it everyday so daily driving is not a big issue, besides, I love agressive idle sound.

Muchas gracias guys,
Cristián Urrutia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qITAw_LIx2g


Cristian --

Change your gear ratio -- the cam you're talking about should have fairly decent gears - and that's a cheap fix. That and spinning a stock bottom end 350 beyond 6500 is already asking for a windowed pan/block. A decent rear end gear change would wake the car right up - it might kill your cruising speeds but if you want good seat of the pants feel/change on a budget - gears would do it.

Right now @ 6500 your top speed (calculated) is 143 mph -- you could go to a 4.11 gear and change nothing else and you're top speed (calculated) would be 119.5... that's still 120 mph but buddy would you get there a whole lot quicker!! 3.70's would give you top speed of 132...

[Norm Peterson]

7000 rpm in a 350 is almost 4100 ft/minute mean piston speed. I'd be looking at forged pistons, steel crank, and balancing if I was planning on really going up there very often. A two-bolt block would probably be adequate for dragstrip duty, but I'd want four for any sustained high-rpm use (such as open-tracking, open road competition a la the Silver State Classic event, and possibly Maxton Mile).


Norm