Here's why you need a big brake kit for road track use

[NOT A TA]

As you guys may have heard while watching races on TV Sebring is notorious for being tough on brakes. They warned me in tech inspection, and I told them I was going to go easy Saturday because I know my (stock with upgrade pads/shoes) brakes have a tough time on the long courses. I normally replace all the pads/shoes/fluid after a weekend on a road track because this is whats left by Sunday afternoon at the longer tracks I've run at. It's probably a good thing I missed a couple sessions with a tire problem or things might have gotten really ugly. Usually they look a little better than this (but not much) at the other tracks if I run ALL the sessions. I missed 2 out of 8 sessions at Sebring and hardly used the brakes the first 2 sessions because I was going fairly slow, never having been there before.

The pads in the pic below were brand new with just "bedding in" miles and about a hundered highway miles on them when I went to the track. You can see how shiny the audible wear indicator still is without any cleaning. I took these pads off very, very, gently so I could document how hard road tracks are on stock brakes even with upgraded pads etc. The pieces laying on the side literally fell onto the floor where they are as I was removing the pads. You can easily crumble the remaining pad material right off of the rivets when they get this bad. They were severly overheated, even though I was trying to be very cautious with them. I knew by the end of my last session that the pads were going away by the pedal pressure required just to slow the car and ran the last couple laps slower to be on the "safe" side. LOL

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Safety%20upgrades/The14Carinterior506.jpg

[TreySmith]

Well there's your problem!


I would feel bad pushing my car that hard, I would probably end up having to push it back also.. >_>

[NOT A TA]

Well there's your problem!


I would feel bad pushing my car that hard, I would probably end up having to push it back also.. >_>


I didn't build it to sit around and look at it. I've got other cars I can do that with. Just got to keep upgrading! As the saying goes "speed costs money, How fast do you want to go?" my answer "200 MPH!"

[JamesJ]

What pads are those, you really dont need bigger brakes if you have the correct pad and rotors...

You said shoes, are you running drums on the rear?

[NOT A TA]

Those particular ones were Raybestos "heavy Duty" semi metallic. I've used 3 sets of those on the current rotors. Tried Ceramics before that which didn't even last a day at Road Atlanta.

This is a stock size setup with single piston front calipers and rear drums. Trying to haul down 4000 lbs over and over on a road track in 100 degree heat puts a tremendous amount of heat into the brakes. The rear shoes usually crack down the middle although switching to finned drums helped that a bit.

I'm going to try to finish up some brake ducting I've been working on and see if that helps. Thinking of trying Willwood and Hawk pads next (with new rotors for each) at the next couple tracks.

The simple answer is to put big 4 wheel discs on. However that would also require buying all new wheels because the brake change will push the wheels out and I'm already at the limit. So not only would I have to spend a couple grand on the brakes, then I'd also need new custom made wheels.

[legend]

do you guys get ferodo pads? ds3000 compound would be good for heavy cars with small brakes

[clill]

I'd say you got your money's worth out of those pads and didn't leave any to waste.

[brans72]

Why not a home made C5 set up till you can afford the Brembo's etc? I think I have $800 max in my setup with Hawk pads and slotted rotors not to mention new seals etc (friend owed me a iou and powdered coated them red). We all can't afford the best of the best but C5 would be a big step up in the playing field. Brandon

[NOT A TA]

Legend: I've never tried Ferodo pads. I was trying to avoid having to go to race only pads with a dedicated set of rotors for track days. Hard compound pads don't work well with no heat in them. Scared myself pretty good once at the end of my street going right out into the intersection like the car was on ice. But that may be the way I have to go for now.

Charlie: Ya I get my use out of them . To bad it's short lived. It takes longer to do the brake job and bed in the new pads than it does to wear the pads out! I'd love to try some brakes like your new ones.

Brandon: The C5 setup would indeed be a big step up. However I had my wheels custom made several years ago and they can't move in or out even 1/4" front or rear. If I do brakes I have to buy new wheels at the same time.

[Fluid Power]

Any reason you have not converted the rear drums to discs?

Darren

[tazzz2_ca]

Hi John how you doing bud..... You may want to check out Wildwood's kit for f-bodies as I believe they have a 13" six piston front and 12" 4 piston rear slim line aluminum caliper kit that would allow you to continue running your existing wheels.... I'm running the brake kit on my 72RS and have 17" TT 2's on the car with 275 (91/2" front rim) & 315 on 11" out back ...

I could stand to be corrected here, however, I believe they said you can run this kit with stock 15" rims as well given their profile...... Anyways just some food for thought and possible consideration.




Those particular ones were Raybestos "heavy Duty" semi metallic. I've used 3 sets of those on the current rotors. Tried Ceramics before that which didn't even last a day at Road Atlanta.

This is a stock size setup with single piston front calipers and rear drums. Trying to haul down 4000 lbs over and over on a road track in 100 degree heat puts a tremendous amount of heat into the brakes. The rear shoes usually crack down the middle although switching to finned drums helped that a bit.

I'm going to try to finish up some brake ducting I've been working on and see if that helps. Thinking of trying Willwood and Hawk pads next (with new rotors for each) at the next couple tracks.

The simple answer is to put big 4 wheel discs on. However that would also require buying all new wheels because the brake change will push the wheels out and I'm already at the limit. So not only would I have to spend a couple grand on the brakes, then I'd also need new custom made wheels.

[NOT A TA]

Any reason you have not converted the rear drums to discs?

Darren

Wheels can't move in or out at all and I was told (perhaps incorrectly) that they would. The rear is a GM 8.5" 10 bolt with Ford style Moser tapered bearing housing ends welded on, running Moser axles. The GM upgrades won't work I've been told.

[manny z]

not a t/a, If you would not mind, i would like to throw my 2 cents in the advice hat.

One since you are tracking the car, I am not going to sit here and tell you that you need bigger brakes blahh, blahh.

For one, the most part, most after market brakes use thinner hats, then the factory hardware. I know you said that as it is now you cant move you wheels at all. If the hats move you wheels in just be a little, you can always use spacers to move them back out. Since I have never see you car, i am not sure if you have open, or covered lugs. Where I am going with this, if yu need spacers, get some longe studs, so you won't loose any threads when you put the lugs on.

On picking a brake kit, or if you are going to peice one together, like I did on my race car, try not to think that if you get the biggest diamiter rotor, it will help that much. Of course it will but, since you have a really heavy car, you need as much cooling as you can get so, try to get the thickest rotor you can put on the front and the back. I am using a 1 1/4" thick, by 12.5" diam rotor on my 2600 lbs srt-4. And improved style rotors and pads, on the rear.

Get some kind of ducting for the car also. You will be very surprised by how much a difference you will get in your braking performance by getting some air to them.

And last but least, when you do get your new brakes, use a prop valve. This will allow you to adj your bias on the car.

good luck.:thumbsup:

[NOT A TA]

Manny: I don't have any experience with brake upgrades as far as what might work. I stopped taking the car to any kind of tracks for a while so I could do safety upgrades (roll cage, fire systems, full containment seats, etc.). Eventually I'll get better brakes. the original post was mostly to bring attention to guys building cars with intentions of running big tracks to consider better brakes initially. I wish I had.

I've been working on brake ducts. I swapped my headlights for ones with built in LED park/turn lights so I could use the original openings for brake ducts and remain street legal. Just need to cut openings through the core support and figure out duct how to set it all upnice.

Taz brought up another factor in my quest for better brakes I didn't mention in earlier posts. I also have a set of Centerline 15" wheels I use at the strip with ET streets and skinnys along with a different rear. So when I figure out a new brake setup I'll have to get another set of rear calipers etc. for the other rear thats compatable and will fit inside the 15" wheels. Because the fronts are skinny there's probably a brake setup that won't hit the wheels. I currently switch between a 2.41 and a 3.73 rear. I know it sounds like a pain swapping rears but after doing it a couple times it gets pretty quick even working alone.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Safety%20upgrades/The14Carinterior479.jpg

[Vegas69]

It's very tricky trying to run brakes for the drags and road course. Ask me how I know. You'll need to stay under 13" with 15 inch wheels. More like a 12-12.5 max to run a 15" skinny unless you want to get a large wheel adapter and then it could be tough. My advice would be to take the wheel measurments and look at the brake specs and see if they work together before making any moves.

[manny z]

Well at least you have one favor on your side, you have GM product so, there is set-up's for day's for you car. Since I have a moper, it was kind of frustrating when I was doing the brakes on my charger. Of course now they have all the parts I wanted.

If you look at WILWOOD and BAER, they both have kits for cars still using 15" wheels. On the cost side, at least look at this way, you are making your car safer, like with the cage and so.

On your car, I would lean more towards BAER. Thier system includes all the parts you need. Spindles, caliper, Master, etc..

good luck..

[brans72]

whoa digging the pic of the car!!! I understand what your saying about brakes etc and bringing it to our attention :thumbsup: . I wish you luck with what ever you do with that beast. Brandon

[NOT A TA]

Thanks Brandon!

Manny: I'll have to buy 1 1/2 systems since I switch rears and the Moser high speed setup is Ford style. The other thing is figuring out what will then also work with both sets of wheels and retain an emergency brake. So I'll have some figuring out to do whenever I get to upgrading. I'll probably contact a couple companies and ask them for help figuring it all out. It'll be a challenge for the brake gurus.