1985 Monte SS with a ZF6

[SickSpeedMonte]

Hey guys,

I'm Bernie, and I'm pretty excited to join this forum after browsing around for a little bit.

My baby is a 1985 Monte Carlo SS that was my first car and I have been working on for the last 5 years. It started as a bone stock car in alright shape, and my daily driver. Since then, I have bought 3 other cars for daily driving (sold two of them) but the SS is sticking with me till the end.

It's got a 260 hp 350 GMPP crate motor with a Crane cam, all the bolt ons, and in dire need of a set of decent heads. I bought the motor at 17 when the rings on the original 305 started creating a blue smoke screen. The motor actually isn't as slow as I was thinking it would be though, trapping 98 mph in a 3750lb car (including me), so it should be around the 320-330 mark with the parts that I have on it.

I also ditched the slush box in favor of a 1993 black tag ZF 6 speed, which I later pulled and replaced with a blue tag so that I can have Bill bulletproof the black tag one day.

The car has been lowered 4" in the front with spindles and springs, and 3" in the rear with A body springs. I relocated the front inner fenders, had a custom mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust made up, and a bunch of other little things to make it driveable at this ride height.

Rolling stock consists of 17X8 and 17X9.5" American Racing Tracstars with 235/45/17 and 275/40/17 tires.

I fab'd a console for the 6 speed shifter out of fiberglass and covered it in padding and vinyl. That's probably one piece on the car that I want to re-do now that I have had some experience. It doesn't look bad, but I think that I can do better.

Paint is a 3 stage. Black base, violet toner, and clear. In the shade it looks black, in the sun it looks deep purple, and there are hints of blue in there too. Photographing it is very tough and it looks different nearly every time.

I've taken it autocrossing a few times (I definately want to go more, but it's hard to find time). I ran right on par with the modded WRX's

This is the only shot with the new paint. The rest were a 2 stage "bright violet" by DuPont. Then some 86 year old lady decided she didn't like my car so she re-designed the driver's side while the car was parked.
http://www.sickspeedmonte.com/ProShot.bmp

http://www.sickspeedmonte.com/Rolling2.JPG

http://www.sickspeedmonte.com/LoadingDock3.JPG

http://www.sickspeedmonte.com/CCPainted2.JPG

http://www.sickspeedmonte.com/AutoX%20009.jpg

I've painted the overflow and washer fluid resevoirs since this shot. And got rid of the fan shroud, it's an old shot :captain:
http://www.sickspeedmonte.com/My350Finished.JPG

http://www.sickspeedmonte.com/PICT0095.JPG

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/badaSSMonte85/IMAGE_298.jpg

I need to get some updated shots of the engine and interior, but you guys get the idea :)

[SickSpeedMonte]

Here's the lady that got me my 3rd paint job in 3 years :unibrow:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/badaSSMonte85/P9280686_2.jpg

[XcYZ]

Welcome aboard, Bernie. :cheers: I've always liked that body style.

That last picture is something else! WTH happened? Did she lose control in reverse?

[SickSpeedMonte]

She had dimensia... or was high on 'scrips.
She came flying into the parking lot, nearly took out a crew cab F250, jumped a curb, threw it in reverse with the wheel turned to the right, and that's when she clipped my nose, jumped the curb, and slid down the side of my car.

Then she puts it back in drive and gets her front tire stuck inside of MY fender, and pulls the fender out. A neighbor saw the whole thing and he ran out to her and she asked him to help her get her car unstuck so she could go home. :willy:

So the cops came, along with a tow truck, and they winched her car off of mine so that I could pull it out of the spot. Her insurance said it was totaled, sight unseen. I told them to send out an adjuster and presented him with $11,000 of receipts, which is about half of it... and he says, "Alright... so it's not totaled anymore." :D

[XcYZ]

Wow, that's crazy. :willy:

[Josh69]

Nice Monte, always had a soft spot for the SS, I like the new color better anyway! :)

I had an old lady redesign the drivers door of my '66 Imp in high school, she decided that it wasn't time to hit the brakes and put it in drive until she backed all the way up and used my car as a reminder....we sent the cops down the street to the First Lutheran to have a little talk with her...no, she didn't 'recall' hitting anything but we had a dozen witnesses.:willy:

[67rstbkt]

Nice Monte! That picture with the old lady is awesome!!!!:willy:

[89 RS]

Welcome aboard...Nice Monte man.

[SickSpeedMonte]

Thanks guys!

[olds]

The car has been lowered 4" in the front with spindles and springs, and 3" in the rear with A body springs. I relocated the front inner fenders, had a custom mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust made up, and a bunch of other little things to make it driveable at this ride height.

Very nice car, I've got some questions about how you dropped it.

Which A body springs did you use? It's hard to calculate pigtails correctly but yours looks perfect.

Also how did you relocate the inner fenders - did you move them in or cut them? Also the outer fenders are they just stock or did you roll a lip in them?

so many questions... Do your 235's rub at full lock or have any problems?

[JohnC]

Very nice! nice paint!

[SickSpeedMonte]

Very nice car, I've got some questions about how you dropped it.

Which A body springs did you use? It's hard to calculate pigtails correctly but yours looks perfect.

Also how did you relocate the inner fenders - did you move them in or cut them? Also the outer fenders are they just stock or did you roll a lip in them?

so many questions... Do your 235's rub at full lock or have any problems?

The rear springs are 2" A-body drop springs from here:

http://www.classicperform.com/chevelle.htm

PN: RCS60342

They dropped the rear of my car 3", so I guess a stock A body spring will drop a G body by 1" or so. I dont have the spring isolators in there either.

You will absolutely need adjustable upper control arms to get the pinion angle right. Otherwise, expect alot of vibration on the highway.

Inner fenders: I cut where the bolt to the outter fender and made new tabs to secure the inners. You can't re-use all of the bolts, as the holes dont line up, but they are very secure and I havent had a problem in 2 years worth of street driving and autocrossing. When you cut the portion out of the outter fender (on the engine bay side) it will weaken the structure, so you should take a piece of angle aluminum and brace the outter fender. Bolt it to what is left of the arch going over the inner fender, and bolt it ahead of and behind with at least 2 bolts each, fore and aft, as well.

The outter fender lips are rolled in the rear for the fat tires, but the front is stock. The 235's do not rub with 4.5" backspacing. We'll see if that changes when I put the big brake kit on and move them out 1/4" on each side.

[SickSpeedMonte]

Very nice! nice paint!

Thank you!

[SickSpeedMonte]

Are images not permitted in signatures here?

[CadVetteStang]

Nice ride. :thumbsup: That was crazy with the old lady. :willy: What is the weight of the car? I’ve been thinking about doing a stock 500 Caddy powered 86 Cutlass, but I like your body style better. I would be autocrossing too- what diameter bars do you use and are they stock? My engine would add 35 pounds up front and I would want stiffer springs and shocks to corner flatter. I’d also need to put in a Ford 9” rear with 2.43 or 2.73 highway gears because of the torque. Since you have autocrossed yours, what changes would you make if your engine made 550 lbs. torque @ 3400 RPMs and added 35 lbs. up front? Do you have room for wider wheels under the fender if you increase the positive offset?

[olds]

The rear springs are 2" A-body drop springs from here:

http://www.classicperform.com/chevelle.htm

PN: RCS60342

They dropped the rear of my car 3", so I guess a stock A body spring will drop a G body by 1" or so. I dont have the spring isolators in there either.

You will absolutely need adjustable upper control arms to get the pinion angle right. Otherwise, expect alot of vibration on the highway.

Inner fenders: I cut where the bolt to the outter fender and made new tabs to secure the inners. You can't re-use all of the bolts, as the holes dont line up, but they are very secure and I havent had a problem in 2 years worth of street driving and autocrossing. When you cut the portion out of the outter fender (on the engine bay side) it will weaken the structure, so you should take a piece of angle aluminum and brace the outter fender. Bolt it to what is left of the arch going over the inner fender, and bolt it ahead of and behind with at least 2 bolts each, fore and aft, as well.

The outter fender lips are rolled in the rear for the fat tires, but the front is stock. The 235's do not rub with 4.5" backspacing. We'll see if that changes when I put the big brake kit on and move them out 1/4" on each side.

That's good info, and thanks for the A body spring tip, you just saved me 100$ on drop springs :woot:

[SickSpeedMonte]

Nice ride. :thumbsup: That was crazy with the old lady. :willy: What is the weight of the car? I’ve been thinking about doing a stock 500 Caddy powered 86 Cutlass, but I like your body style better. I would be autocrossing too- what diameter bars do you use and are they stock? My engine would add 35 pounds up front and I would want stiffer springs and shocks to corner flatter. I’d also need to put in a Ford 9” rear with 2.43 or 2.73 highway gears because of the torque. Since you have autocrossed yours, what changes would you make if your engine made 550 lbs. torque @ 3400 RPMs and added 35 lbs. up front? Do you have room for wider wheels under the fender if you increase the positive offset?

The car weighs 3740 lb with 3/4 tank of fuel and me in it. It's got a fiberglass hood and no A/C. 55/45 F/R weight distribution. It's nice having a platform scale at work :yes:

My bars are both stock. From the times I went autocrossing, I would have said that I was in serious need of more front roll stiffness, but after changing to the currie arms in the rear, things have changed. I seriously suspect that my stock suspension was in a good bit of bind at this low ride height. The Johnny Joints seem to have freed up the suspension articulation quite a bit. I've noticed some roll steer and the car just feels different (less stable actually). I wonder if I need to get the currie lower arms now, as the stockers have 200k on them and the bushings.

With 550 ft-lbs and an extra 35lb up front, over stock, you'll definately need stiffer springs. Then you will have to do some racing and testing to determine what to do with your bars, as the stiff front springs will add roll stiffness and may balance out the car.

I would also try to fit the fattest tires up front that you can, which on the SS is a 275/40/17 on a 9" wheel. I'm not sure on the offset, as I have never run wider than an 8" wheel.

Personally, I don't have much room for a wider tire, front or rear. The car is too low in the front (it tucks tire) and the rear tire is as wide as it gets without rubbing the frame or sticking out past the wheel arch.

[SickSpeedMonte]

That's good info, and thanks for the A body spring tip, you just saved me 100$ on drop springs :woot:

Glad to help! I refused to spend $170 on the 3" g body drop springs, and then one day someone posted their car with these springs on MonteCarloSS.com.

Again, to be this low, you'll need the adjustable arms, and you'll have to remove the frame rail bumpstops. Leave the one on the pinion.

[olds]

Glad to help! I refused to spend $170 on the 3" g body drop springs, and then one day someone posted their car with these springs on MonteCarloSS.com.

Again, to be this low, you'll need the adjustable arms, and you'll have to remove the frame rail bumpstops. Leave the one on the pinion.

Well I'm going to call and find the specs on that spring to try and find one that drops the rear 2". Which would be 1" drop for an A body like you said, 3 inches is just too low for me, but it does look killer

[SickSpeedMonte]

Well I'm going to call and find the specs on that spring to try and find one that drops the rear 2". Which would be 1" drop for an A body like you said, 3 inches is just too low for me, but it does look killer

I've got a pair of hotchkiss rear A body springs too, which aren't as low as these. Might be a good place to start looking.

[CadVetteStang]

I seriously suspect that my stock suspension was in a good bit of bind at this low ride height. The Johnny Joints seem to have freed up the suspension articulation quite a bit. I've noticed some roll steer and the car just feels different (less stable actually). I wonder if I need to get the currie lower arms now, as the stockers have 200k on them and the bushings.


When you lowered the front of the car (speaking only of the amount that may have been lowered by the springs), did you shorten the sway bar end links to level the sway bar? Assuming you have the standard front bushings and side end links that are essentially extra long bolts that run through a metal sleeve that separates the end link bushings- you would have to cut the sleeves down so that the sides of the bar are level again. This may require shorter grade 8 bolts if the ones you have are not threaded all the way through. If you did not cut the sleeves- and if the springs lowered the car much, then the swaybar is in a bind. If you switch to polyurethane bushings and end links, be sure to leave some room for the end links to work- if you tighten the end link bolts too much, the bar can only work by bending the bolts. – that can make it bind too--- until the bolt breaks.


Unstable? An often overlooked adjustment when lowering and or changing the forward rake or stance of the car is the front end alignment. You have had so much done to yours that a factory spec alignment may no longer be correctly angled- especially in camber and caster. You might need someone (who knows more than me) to figure out what the best alignment angles would be for you.

Here are three sites that talk about alignments; the last one is for Regals and should be more specific to your car:

http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

Also: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4

And: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/Suspension.html

[montessaj]

Bernie, I'm glad you took my advice and got on this site! Lots of excellent cars on this site, and its the perfect place for your Monte.

Andy

[SickSpeedMonte]

When you lowered the front of the car (speaking only of the amount that may have been lowered by the springs), did you shorten the sway bar end links to level the sway bar? Assuming you have the standard front bushings and side end links that are essentially extra long bolts that run through a metal sleeve that separates the end link bushings- you would have to cut the sleeves down so that the sides of the bar are level again. This may require shorter grade 8 bolts if the ones you have are not threaded all the way through. If you did not cut the sleeves- and if the springs lowered the car much, then the swaybar is in a bind. If you switch to polyurethane bushings and end links, be sure to leave some room for the end links to work- if you tighten the end link bolts too much, the bar can only work by bending the bolts. – that can make it bind too--- until the bolt breaks.


Unstable? An often overlooked adjustment when lowering and or changing the forward rake or stance of the car is the front end alignment. You have had so much done to yours that a factory spec alignment may no longer be correctly angled- especially in camber and caster. You might need someone (who knows more than me) to figure out what the best alignment angles would be for you.

Here are three sites that talk about alignments; the last one is for Regals and should be more specific to your car:

http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

Also: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4

And: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/Suspension.html

I didn't shorten the end links, and thank you for pointing that out. The springs lowered the car about 2", so judginb by the end link location, in relation to the LBJ and LCA bushings, the end links probably need to be 1.25" shorter or so. Thanks for the tip.

I do plan on getting an alignment done, but I need to get a new steering box first. The one in the car is the original and has 200k+ on it.

Bernie, I'm glad you took my advice and got on this site! Lots of excellent cars on this site, and its the perfect place for your Monte.

Andy

Thanks for the referral! I'm loving it here.

[Ummgawa]

Very neat car. I really like the Monte SS of that year.