BBC build ideas?

[70rs]

Maybe some of you have ideas on how I should build my engine.
This is my first big block and any help in selecting parts would be appreciated.

The engine is a '77 454 out of a 3/4 ton truck. It is all stock and has never been opened up, it has 100k on it and runs good but I want to go through it and get more power.
It will be going in a 1970 Camaro with a 5 speed behind it. The car will be mostly street driven and may never see the track. But I do tend to have a heavy foot so it needs to be durable. ( I may do a couple open track days on our local road course just for fun)
I'd like to see 450+ hp and 450+ tq. And if possible I want to re use the stock crank and rods unless there is a cost efficient way to stroke it.

Can I reach these levels with the stock heads?
Any thoughts on which cam? Heads? Intake?

Thanks for any help,
Eric:cheers:

[Vegas69]

I'd definitely go with a new set of heads. If you don't want to spend big money, you can go with a Dart Iron Eagle. A roller camshaft is a must, and I would go mechanical if I had to do it all over again. I would also run a scavenging plate and quality oil pan with baffling. Edelbrock air gap will work well. If the crankshaft needs turned and the cylinder need bored(probably will with that many miles) might as well stroke it to 489-496. You then have a square motor. Meaning bore and stroke very similar.

[70rs]

Thanks Todd,
What don't you like about your hydraulic cam? (I'm assuming that's what you are running based on your post)
And is there a crank manufacturer that you reccomend? Do I need to step up to a forged crank at the 450-500 hp levels?
Eric

[gmorris]

I would recomend doing some research over on chevelles.com. They are the big block masters with a lot of very knowledgeable builders on the forum. Mike Lewis at lewis Racing Engines is a regular poster and if pretty much the man when it comes to building stout big blocks. You can find pretty much any combination you would want already built and tested on there.

[Vegas69]

Thanks Todd,
What don't you like about your hydraulic cam? (I'm assuming that's what you are running based on your post)
And is there a crank manufacturer that you reccomend? Do I need to step up to a forged crank at the 450-500 hp levels?
Eric

It's not that I don't like it, I just know I could be making another 40-50 horse with no less engine vacuum and few adjustments. Mechanical cams have more agressive ramps. I would have to agree with Morris that the guys on Chevelles.com are probably your best bet for research.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We have been using a lot of the Trick Flow Ovals on our big blocks. They make killer low end grunt and nice power to low 6000 RPM range. And they are priced real reasonable.

We are using them on a 540 were building right now and looking for killer torque numbers.

We have these on the shelf.

[70rs]

I've been looking at chevelles.com and am about to register as a member there. I'll have to lay low on the car I own, only have a Camaro LOL! Kidding!
I will get in touch with Mike Lewis and try and put a build plan together.

I checked Summit for the Dart heads and they run about 1600.00 for the pair. That is assembled including guide plates. Is this a decent price on these?
I also looked at Scat cranks, forged are only around 700.00 and cast are under 300.00. Do I need a forged crank at the 450-500 hp level?

Thanks again for the help here guys.
Eric:cheers:

PS Todd, what kind of hp and tq are you getting? and where does it come on (rpm range)? If you are happy with yours for street use maybe I could talk you into sharing the specs on it and I could do something similar?

[Vegas69]

Very well documented. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=19857&highlight=payback+hits+chassis Had 593hp and 587 lbft at the crank.

[70rs]

Thanks Todd. I'll check it out.
Frank, thank you too. PM sent on those heads.

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg for questions on this subject.:cheers:

[gmorris]

A lot of the BBC chevelle guys are runnign AFR heads with fantastic results. I have 335's on my 540 just to reduce the low end torque a little for more driveabilty but it still made 525ft-lbs at 3000RPM. It ended up making 680ft-lbs at about 5500 and 750HP at 6800. With the solid roller I spin it to 7500RPM easily.

[BBC71Nova]

Woohoo! FInally some BBC discussion. All this LSx talk was too much :-).

There is a set of Edelbrock oval port heads for sale in the for sale section. Pretty good price and they are new in box. For a smaller cube BBC that is likely the way to go. I have a set of Dart 320s but if not, I'd likely pick up those oval ports for myself. For a street engine they can make strong numbers.

John

[tones2SS]

I'll be following this thread myself, as I more than likey going to go the BBC route more so than with a LSx. :unibrow:
Not that I don't like the Lsx, I have a LS1 now.:thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

A lot of the BBC chevelle guys are runnign AFR heads with fantastic results. I have 335's on my 540 just to reduce the low end torque a little for more driveabilty but it still made 525ft-lbs at 3000RPM. It ended up making 680ft-lbs at about 5500 and 750HP at 6800. With the solid roller I spin it to 7500RPM easily.

Looks like a pretty stout race motor. You must be running a mammoth camshaft with your max torque at 5500. Probably not ideal for him though. I'm running a set of 325 Dart Pro 1's on my 489. For his goals your heads are way to big and so are mine. We also need to know if he wants to use power brakes. For a street motor with those hp goals in mind, I'd take Franks advice and go with a good set of budget oval ports. Those GM heads would be fine as well. The camshaft needs to be matched to your rear gear, brakes, and goals. I'd also make sure the camshaft has a pressed on cast distributor gear so you can run a regular gear or melonized vs a bronze gear for longevity. Basically we need to know more.

[70rs]

Thanks guys. Yes on power brakes. Maybe a hydro boost later. 5 speed trans, so no converter to worry about. Rear gears are undecided as of yet. I have the stock ten bolt in it but that is going away and will be replaced with either a 12 bolt or 9 inch. Wheels will be either 17 or 18's. Not sure on tire size yet (diameter). No tubs. Trying to keep the budget in check and be realistic with my use of the car.
I'm not affraid to spend money on the car but I would rather do it on things like brakes, suspension, trans, engine. Not so much on body mods or "bling".

I am very open to ideas on which parts for the whole car. This is my first full build and I want it right. I do have the ability to do everything but the paint myself. And I just might try that too.
If there are any thoughts on cam selection, rear gears, brake set up, tire size or anything else then please feel free to chime in.
I'll be dragging the engine home this weekend and tearing it down to inspect. If the block is good then I'm in business. If it's not then I'll go with the small block I already have. (327 with a fresh rebuild, around 300 hp. But i can fix that :unibrow: )

[gmorris]

I wasn't suggesting he use the same heads as me. AFR 305's work very well on 496 size engines if he decided to stroke it out a bit. On 468's most guys go with ported GM heads and make fantastic numbers.

I just checked and my peak torque was actually at 5000.

[deuce_454]

my money is on the pro filer 320 heads with matching intake and a mechanical cam in the 240-245 deg ragge @ 0.050 with about .600 lift and 110 LS....

it should put you in the 620 fwhp range with acceptable idle

[Vegas69]

Thanks guys. Yes on power brakes. Maybe a hydro boost later. 5 speed trans, so no converter to worry about. Rear gears are undecided as of yet. I have the stock ten bolt in it but that is going away and will be replaced with either a 12 bolt or 9 inch. Wheels will be either 17 or 18's. Not sure on tire size yet (diameter). No tubs. Trying to keep the budget in check and be realistic with my use of the car.
I'm not affraid to spend money on the car but I would rather do it on things like brakes, suspension, trans, engine. Not so much on body mods or "bling".

I am very open to ideas on which parts for the whole car. This is my first full build and I want it right. I do have the ability to do everything but the paint myself. And I just might try that too.
If there are any thoughts on cam selection, rear gears, brake set up, tire size or anything else then please feel free to chime in.
I'll be dragging the engine home this weekend and tearing it down to inspect. If the block is good then I'm in business. If it's not then I'll go with the small block I already have. (327 with a fresh rebuild, around 300 hp. But i can fix that :unibrow: )


Well...with a 5 speed a 3.73 should work great. What is the overdrive gear ratio? You need to stick with a small hydraulic cam for power brakes. I'd get on the horn with Comp Cams or Lunati and find a good camshaft for your application and match the heads. Sounds like heads we've discussed earlier will work just fine for your goals.

[gearheads78]

How about a little boost?:D I did a mild 468 with ported 049 GM heads 9lbs of boost with a vortech YS blower. Made just under 900HP and in a 4300lb street truck run consistant 6.5x and in the 6.3x was its best run. It was lots of fun to beat up on race cars at the track before he sold it a couple months ago.

[69496]

Funny you mention chevelles.com as I am a member there. They love 496 builds over there and that is what I am building. AFR and Brodix seem to be the preffered heads. I got a set of edlebrock RPM heads cheap so that is what I am going with. Big blocks are prone to valve float that is why solid cams are recomended for anything more than a mild street motor. I will be using a flat tappet cam for now because the cost of rollers are a little out of my budget for now. Even so my motor is very straight forward and should make 650 horsepower. Guys running brodix or afr heads running solid rollers are making 700+ horsepower with ease. As much as LS motors are touted around here it is all too easy to blow them away with a big block.

[tones2SS]

Very good info here guys.:cheers:

[70rs]

I agree, very good info here. Thanks everyone. Now, more questions.
I may have the chance to pick up a 1997 vortec 454 complete engine, runs good, includes the FI system (intake, injectors ect.)
Are the vortec heads any good? What about the blocks?
It's only 500 bucks. But I think I'd only end up using the bottom end right?

As for the overdrive ratio, I don't have the trans yet. I'll be getting a whole kit from Keisler.
I see the hp numbers climbing in the other posts:unibrow: I have the same problem. "Ok, if I can get 500, why not 575. Ok, why not 650, ok, why not 700?" Too funny!
It's hard to keep it in check at times. But needless to say I'd take as much as I can get for power.

[gearheads78]

Block will be fine but the heads are junk for making any power.

[Vegas69]

That's a good deal since a brand new Gen VI block goes for over a grand.

[70rs]

I didn't know a new block cost that much Todd. I am going to drag home the truck my engine is still in this afternoon. I should have the motor out and torn down by tomorrow evening and off to the machine shop Monday to have it checked out. I might pick up the vortec motor Monday as well just in case. If I don't have to use it now, I'll have a spare that I might build with higher goals somewhere down the road.
Now, someone stop me if I am going about this wrong. Is the '97 block and crank/rods better to use than the '77 I am about to tear apart?
I'm at a point where I can start on either one (once I buy the vortec motor Monday) so if anyone has good advice on which one to build please tell me now.

I really want to express my grattitude to everyone who has responded to this thread. You all have helped me a bunch and I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out on this.:cheers:
Eric

[tones2SS]

Hey Eric. I would wait to see if the truck engine is worth before buying it.
That's 500 bucks, or should I say, more horsepower towards your '77 engine, if it worth it of course.
GOOD LUCK!:thumbsup:

[70rs]

Good point tones. I was thinking since I need to have either one checked out before I can build, and either one will cost the same to have checked, which one would make a better foundation for my project with all else being equal.

Thanks,
Eric

[gmorris]

If you were planning on a mech fuel pump there is no provision on the gen v block.

[Vegas69]

That's a gen VI and it does have the provision.

[70rs]

Ok, the '77 block seems to be ok. I'll drag it to the machine shop tomorrow and have it checked out.
I have decided to build it as a 496 and push the power goals up a bit.
I'd like to see 550-600hp/tq out of it. I know this will require some changes in what parts I can use from the stock short block. I'm guessing the only thing I will re use will be the block itself.
So now I am open for ideas on which crank, rods,heads,cam.....
I will be going to a hydro boost set up for the brakes. I will also be going with a 6 speed from Keisler so I shouldn't have to worry about the trans being strong enough or vac for power brakes.
The choices on cams and heads is making my head spin.
There has been talk of AFRs ,Brodix, Trick Flow, Edelbrock and GM heads. All of that was based on a 454/468 build at 450 hp. And with power brakes. Now things are changed all the way around.
Can these power goals be reached with a hyd roller cam?

I keep seeing stroker kits everywhere for small blocks but not much advertised for big blocks. I have looked at chevelles.com and there are alot of ideas there. But I have kind of developed a trust for the opinions here. Nothing against the other sites at all. Please don't take that wrong if you are members of both.
Thanks,
Eric:cheers:

[70rs]

I guess I should thank (or blame:lol: ) Todd for posting his dyno video. That got me convinced to go with a stroker.
And the video of it running through the roads.

Todd, if you had to do it over with your engine, would you change anything other than the cam (to mechanical lifter)?

I searched your build thread and couldn't find what trans you are using. I'm sure it's there somewhere but I'm a dork and missed it.

You can probably see where this is going. A copy of Todds drivetrain in a '70 RS Camaro.
Thanks,
Eric

[Vegas69]

Just an aluminum block and fuel injection. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I used a cast Scat crank and would now go with a forged crankshaft just incase decide to spray it or turn this thing into a 540 one day.(Crankshaft and rods can be used in a 540) I wouldn't bore it any farther than neccesary. Automatically going to 496 gives you no mulligans for another bore. So...forged crank and mechanical cam. Don't forget the press on cast cam gear for the distributor. You don't want to run a bronze distributor gear on the street. I have a TKO 600.

[tones2SS]

I've been doing some research on chevelles.com myself Eric.
I guess a lot of the guys on chevelles.com are running or suggesting the AFR or Brodix heads. I guess both would be a great choice for a 496?

[70rs]

Todd, I just went through your thread again. I'm up to page 27. I found the trans info. Your car is going to cost ME alot of money! Thanks. :lol:

I get what you are saying about the bore. Maybe I'll hold back and save some material for later just in case.
I didn't realize you were using a cast crank at those power levels. A forged crank seems the way to go now since I have to get a new one anyway.

So I am going with a forged stroker crank. Mechanical roller cam (specs?) I'll remember the cam gear Todd.
Aluminum heads (probably the ones from Frank at Prodigy).
Pistons and rods to be determined still. (do I beam or H beam rods make any difference for this build?)
Scat and Eagle both have forged rotating assemblies. Both also offer both types of rods.

Now I need to figure out which intake and carb.
I have seen Edelbrock Performer RPM used but I wonder if that might not flow enough. But any dual plane will have better street manners than a single plane.
Carb size will matter too. I can deal with tuning here. Just need a base size to start with.
I have a brand new billet HEI I can use but I'm sure it will have to be tweaked.

Almost there guys. Thanks to everyone for all of the great advice and for your patients. This is my first big block and I figure if I'm going to do it, I better do it right.:cheers:
Eric

[Vegas69]

Heads are a personal choice. Very happy with my Dart Pro 1's. I'm running a Edelbrock Air Gap intake and 850 AED carb. If you do go mechanical which you should, I'd step it up to a 950 for the added rpm you can spin it. I'd also make sure you oil pan is made for you intended application. You should make mid 600's tq/hp with a clean build, good heads, and the right camshaft. My build thread is a novel. I should delete it and charge admission to save a bunch of money and time!

[70rs]

Yes, your build thread is a novel. It took me forever to find mention of the trans. But it has so much good info and has helped me a bunch.
I really appreciate your help on parts selection. Now all I have to do is pay for it all!:rofl:

I sent Mike Lewis a PM regarding all of this and asked for a quote on a rotating assembly and a quote on a short block. (just in case my block is bad)

There are a couple of good engine builders around here that I can work with as well. I shouldn't have any problem getting this put together right.

I am looking forward to building this engine. It should be an absolute riot once in the car.

Todd, did you get your heads from Summit or Jeggs? Or is there a better source?
Thanks again,
Eric:cheers:

[Vegas69]

The key is to find a really good machine shop and let them set up the block and heads for your application. I'd stay as close to home as possible and buy the parts from them if they are reasonable. I had my engine built in North Carolina. Never again.

[70rs]

I'll try and stay local Todd. Thanks for the input.
I noticed you are using mechanical clutch linkage. Is there any reason why you didn't go with a hydraulic set up?
I am putting together my list for the rest of the drive train and this caught my eye in your thread.
Thanks,
Eric

[Vegas69]

Less expensive and less to go wrong. I really like the feel of my clutch.

[70rs]

Good points on the clutch Todd. Kinda hard for mechanical linkage to puke fluid all over your new clutch package huh?
I have never had a hyd clutch in any kind of muscle car. (Toyota Corolla does not count). My '68 had a Muncie M21 and I did like how easy that was to take care of and it had a good feel too.
I just got my quote from Keisler on the trans package and the hyd upgrade is pretty spendy.
Thanks,
Eric

[Vegas69]

Headers is where it can become and issue to run a mechanical however. They must be built for the Z BAR.

[gmorris]

I went hydraulic but if I had to do it again I would at least try to use a mechanical linkage. I already have some leakage issues and mounting the master and getting the rod angle and ratio right was a real pain...although I'm working on an a-body which doesn't have the aftermarket support that an f-body does yet.

I only went hydraulic because with a dart block, steel bellhousing, tremec transmission and dual plate clutch I figured there was too many different aftermarket parts involved to get a mech to work.

[70rs]

I think I'm going to try to run mechanical linkage. Thanks for the heads up on the headers Todd, I'll keep that in mind.

gmorris- I'll be running a factory GM block so I should be ok with everything but the headers. But thank you for the info on the hyd set up.
Eric

[70rs]

So I got the word today that the block I was hoping to use for my first ever big block adventure is toast. It has a spun main bearing and a crack in the same main web (saddle?) IT had also been hogged out 060 over already so even if everything else checked out I wouldn't use it. Now I get to find another one to play with.
Lucky for me, one of the guys on Chevelles.com lives next door to my best friend. He happens to be into big blocks (very into big blocks) and has another one for me to buy. He also has pretty much everything to machine it with except honing the mains. That will be farmed out.
So I owe a big thank you to the guys that sent me to that site. It turned out well.
Now I have another question. Heads. Has anyone used or know anything about Peters Performance Aluminum Heads? The Australian heads. The price ($1,699.00) completely assembled. Stainless valves,steel retainers and keepers, srings (for hyd cam), rubber/teflon seals, rocker studs and guide plates. 95cc comb chambers, 310cc int runners.
I have never heard of them. But I'm the new guy here.
Thanks,
Eric:cheers:

[Vegas69]

I would prefer a well known machine shop did my machining and the heads were set up for your application. Meaning, camshaft and intended use. I have no idea who you are talking about and haven't heard of the heads. It could be great or vice versus. Do your due diligence.

[70rs]

I hear you Todd. The heads are something I just found out about today. The pricing was good but that only made me curious. I won't be using any off brand or cheap stuff in this engine. It will either be Dart, AFR or Trick Flow for heads. The guy doing the machine work has a lot of engines running around here ( I have seen many of them run at the races here and have known him for a few years via my best friend, we just never talked cars much before and I didn't realize he has his own business out of his home shop). So I am very comfortable with his abilities. I have spoken to a few people running his engines this week and they are also very happy with his work. We have talked a bit about what my goals are and he said the same thing you did, set it up right. Meaning matching the cam and heads, comp ratio, piston selection...
I'll be talking more with him soon and getting a specific parts list together. I'll post it before I start buying anything and see what you think.
Thanks for all of you help in this. I REALLY appreciate it! If you get up this way or I get down there, dinner and drinks are on me!:cheers:
Eric

[Vegas69]

Sounds like you have have talked to the right people. Have you seen me drink?:rofl:

[70rs]

Uh oh. Did I just sign myself up for bankruptcy if I take you out drinking?:captain: Oh well. At least they don't allow drinking in the strip clubs up here. Those two are a bad mix.......:_paranoid

[tones2SS]

I think you're making the right move by sticking with DART, AFR or Trick Flow heads.
Good luck with everything. I've learned some stuff as well by following this thread, thanks to you & Todd.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[70rs]

I have learned a lot too. Todd has been VERY helpful in all of this. I just asked a ton of questions. That man has the patients of a saint.:thumbsup:

I have a partial list of parts selected and am waiting on a couple of answers about some others that are undecided still.
When I gat the whole list put together I will post it so everyone can give opinions and maybe even take guesses where it will end up with hp and tq.
The goal is 600 for both. If I go beyond that I'll be looking at a whole new level of parts and HUGE expenses with engine internals and transmission issues. I have to try and keep some sort of budget on this.:rofl:

Thanks to everyone for all of the help!
Eric

[70rs]

This is so cool. We have 5 pages of BBC chat with some really good info.
I know I will be going back several times to re read this thread.

I can't tell you all how excited I am to have a nasty big block between the fenders. This is my first one and it's going to be a blast to hammer on! Time to buy stock in tires and brakes!

(and hardly any mention of LS stuff, not that there is anything wrong with them guys ;))

[69MyWay]

In my old 69 Vette, I did a 454 bored 60 over with the Edelbrock RPM package (heads/cam) and then duplicated their 540 hp proven package. I topped that off with a PRO-FLO EFI unit for good measure.

It made great power - rumbled like a pack of angry harleys...and was a kick to look at with the hood up. No need to spin it hard to ram you into the seat.

I ran a Richmond six and 3.55 gears in the rear. Very balanced, very strong combo.

[tones2SS]

This is so cool. We have 5 pages of BBC chat with some really good info.
I know I will be going back several times to re read this thread.

I can't tell you all how excited I am to have a nasty big block between the fenders. This is my first one and it's going to be a blast to hammer on! Time to buy stock in tires and brakes!

(and hardly any mention of LS stuff, not that there is anything wrong with them guys ;))

SO AWESOME!!! Should be fun.:yes: :cheers:

[tones2SS]

In my old 69 Vette, I did a 454 bored 60 over with the Edelbrock RPM package (heads/cam) and then duplicated their 540 hp proven package. I topped that off with a PRO-FLO EFI unit for good measure.

It made great power - rumbled like a pack of angry harleys...and was a kick to look at with the hood up. No need to spin it hard to ram you into the seat.

I ran a Richmond six and 3.55 gears in the rear. Very balanced, very strong combo.

That sounds like a nice motor. I would like to do EFI as well.
Is that your car in your advatar? Looks nice. Got any pics of it?:thumbsup:

[70rs]

69 myway- That sound like a great package in the vette. Do you remember what the 6th gear ratio was in the richmond? I have not decided which rear gears to go with yet or the final drive ratio in the trans.
EFI and forced induction will come later. The engine is being built with a very stout bottom end so it will handle the upgrades down the road.
The engine and the rest of the car is going to cost me plenty now without adding those to the list. I'll have to save my pennies for later.
Eric

[70rs]

Ok guys, here it is, all of the parts I plan on using for my engine build.
Please feel free to give opinions.

489 cid (454 truck block 030 over)
4.250 Scat forged crank
6.385 Scat H beam forged rods with ARP bolts
SRP forged 18cc pistons
Brodix Race Rite heads with "CNC option"
Custom grind solid roller cam approx .250" int/.260" ex (to be dialed in soon)
1.7/1.7 roller rockers
Isky Red Zone roller lifters
Edelbrock Performer RPM air gap intake
Pro Systems HP1000 carb
HEI w/ MSD 6AL box

This should be good for just over 630 hp at 6000rpm
and 625 tq at 4000 rpm

I am pretty much duplicating another build by Mike Lewis Racing Engines
That motor did 634 hp at 6000 and 627 tq at 4100 rpm.

The cool part is it had 540 lb/ft @ 3100 rpm!!
And was turning 475 hp @4000 rpm. That is the same rpm as peak torque.

With a TKO600 behind it in a '70 Camaro it should really get with the program!

So let's hear it guys. What are your thoughts? I do value evryones opinion on this so please let it fly.

Thanks,
Eric:cheers:

[Vegas69]

Sounds good to me:thumbsup: Now is the time to figure out your intentions for the car. I'd go for a quality oil pan incase you decide to race. I'd also go with a vacuum advance distributor or programable advance.

[gmorris]

Looks liek a very solid build that will be an awesome driver.

I'm also running a solid roller and Isky Redzones (with EZ roll option) and decided to run an accusump oil accumlator to eliminate dry starts and help with oiling on the road course. It is really nice to hit the switch and watch the oil pressure come up and 3 quarts of oil pump through the engine before you even touch the key.

After one day on the track I am also in the middle of an oil cooler install as my oil temps were over 300º in 3 laps with the coolant staying under at 200º. I can get the oil over 280º with some hard driving on the twisty mountain roads here too.

Make sure you have a good radiator/fan setup if you'll be driving in traffic at all.

My TKO600 is handling 700ft-lbs with no problem so far but I only have 1100miles on it.

[tones2SS]

That sounds awesome Eric.
Looks like it will be a nice engine and strong too.
Keep us posted buddy!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Vegas69]

Looks liek a very solid build that will be an awesome driver.

I'm also running a solid roller and Isky Redzones (with EZ roll option) and decided to run an accusump oil accumlator to eliminate dry starts and help with oiling on the road course. It is really nice to hit the switch and watch the oil pressure come up and 3 quarts of oil pump through the engine before you even touch the key.

After one day on the track I am also in the middle of an oil cooler install as my oil temps were over 300º in 3 laps with the coolant staying under at 200º. I can get the oil over 280º with some hard driving on the twisty mountain roads here too.

Make sure you have a good radiator/fan setup if you'll be driving in traffic at all.

My TKO600 is handling 700ft-lbs with no problem so far but I only have 1100miles on it.

I'm getting ready to install an accumlator and oil cooler as well. I just can't find anywhere I want to mount a honking 3 quart system...I'll be going with 1.5-2 quarts and the manual valve. I'll probably leave it off on the street for reliability.

[gmorris]

I'm getting ready to install an accumlator and oil cooler as well. I just can't find anywhere I want to mount a honking 3 quart system...I'll be going with 1.5-2 quarts and the manual valve. I'll probably leave it off on the street for reliability.

The 3 quart was a complete nighmare to mount. I had just enough room to put it on the firewall but it isn't exactly beautiful there. I would want a minimum of 2 quarts personally for road course duty as I see my oil pressure start to drop with the sump off when pushing it on offramps let alone long sweepers on the track. I would be afraid of a 1.5 quart running out of volume before the end of the corner.

I just turn mine on for the pre-lube and then kill the power to the valve for normal driving as well. The accusump EPC valve acts as a check valve so even with it off it will still charge it to the highest pressure hit while driving. Mine sat for about a month without losing an ounce of pressure as well which will make the spring startup easy.

[Vegas69]

I've only autocrossed the car but never noticed a drop in pressure in the sweepers during spirited driving. Not sure I've looked either. I'm running a stock big block pump with a max pressure of 40-42 hot so it doesn't pump excess oil up top. Not saying I won't have a problem. What pan are you running?

[gmorris]

Can't remember the PN but it's a typical a-body moroso pan. None of the really good road race pans fit an A-body without hacking up the front crossmember. I may end up doing some custom mods next winter.

I didn't think I had any issues either until I made a point of watching the gauge durign a 270º on ramp run. It doesn't drop to zero or anything but it bounces around pretty good. I'm runnign full sweep electric gages so they react pretty quick.

[70rs]

Thanks for the tips on the cooling and oil systems. I've been told to run a stock pump (oil) and have also been told I should run high vol/pressure pump. I have to think that a stock pump with an accumilator set up is going to be the best route. I will be on the track at least a couple of times (road course here) just to have some fun. I still need to pick out an oil pan. It will have to fit the factory sub frame and still have extra capacity. Any thoughts?

I do have a brand new billet HEI with an adjustable vac advance. Just need the 6 AL MSD box.

As for cooling, I've been looking at aluminum radators and different fan set ups. I'll have to see just how big of a rad I can fit in there, I will be in traffic at times and am not going to take a chance on frying this motor.
I'll be using an oil cooler too.

Todd, as for the intentions for the car? It will be a driver. I have A LOT of nice twisty roads here that I run my bike on and will be a blast in the car. I don't see myself doing any "formal" drag racing or alot of autocross either. Just a very solid street driven car. But it will be set up for great handling and braking. I intend to abuse the hell out of the tires, clutch, brakes and throttle!:D I am not going to build it just so I can look at it on sunny days. I have a real issue with owning something that I can't use. And a bigger issue with crap that does not work as designed. Cheap tools, parts, guns, whatever. No room in my life for shi**y equipment. Cars are made to be driven. The only way mine will see a trailer is if it's broken or I crash it.

Glad to hear the TKO is holding up with that kind of torque.

Thanks guys!
Eric:cheers:

PS I am going Sunday to get another block. I'll keep you posted.

[Vegas69]

I'm just saying look at the finish line because it's cheaper to do it right now than later. If you intend to beat it, build it that way. You will get a million opinions on the oil pump. Big blocks are known for pumping the pans dry so I'd have to lean away from the high volume pump. The big block pump is already a work horse and naturally high volume. Mine runs 45-50 psi cold 20-25 idle hot, usually 35-40 crusing and that's when the relief valve opens at about 40. It was built that way on purspose. Oil pressure is one of those deals where everybody thinks more is better. Not neccesarily. A high pressure spring in a stock pump is an option that would get you to 50-60 psi hot at high rpm. I'm going to add an accumulator before I road course the car just for insurance if nothing else. It's well documented that any engine on a road course will need an oil cooler. You need to run a t stat on it. My motor has trouble building heat in the winter here. I'm going to switch to a 195 t stat next winter and switch back to a 180 in the summer. It will actually run 150-165 in the back of the block in the winter even with the stat opening at 180. And it's Vegas!

[gmorris]

Good point on the stat. I'm installing a canton oil t-stat that only opens to the cooler when the oil hits 215º. It's a pricey piece but it's one of the few that have a high enough opening temp to ensure good oil temp. Most open too cold at 180º

My coolant stat and fan setup keeps me between 190 and 205º engine temp which is right about where I want it to run. Most people seem to want to run their engines and oil way too cool.

[Vegas69]

I agree.....why start cooling oil at 180. Let me see if I can find the stat I'm looking at.

[70rs]

Todd,
I sure do want to do it right the first time. So I am going to run a stock pump. And an accumulator as well. Are you saying I should or should not run a high pressure spring?
As for the oil cooler, I am going to run one of those too but have never seen a stat set up for one. Is there a spot in some coolers for one or is it in line?

We get a wide rang of temps here in the summer. It could be 50 one day and 95 the next. The winters can get pretty cold but not so bad that I'd need to swap coolant stats. My truck runs 180-195 all year. If I had to guess at an average daily temp JUST A GUESS, maybe 55-60 AVERAGE all year. Highs in the upper 90s and lows in the teens.

I am really trying to look at the finish line hard here. I will beat the crap out of the car at times. I am trying to make sure I put the right combination of parts together to have a very durable ride. I am sure things will fail/break and as that happens I will have to find a way to fix/upgrade whatever it is.

As always, I am wide open to suggestions. Thanks guys!
Eric

PS
Gary, I just noticed you were following the thread on chevelles.com. I posted the parts list there too. I'm glad I made a connection with Mike Lewis over there. There are some really nice cars on that site. Yours is VERY COOL! And for anyone who has not visited that site, there are a bunch of really nice people over there. I'd encourage anyone to go take a look and join up.

[Vegas69]

I'd rely on your machinist since he will be setting your bearing clearances. I'm really not sure what to tell you on the spring. I don't think it will hurt the longevity, but it will put extra load on your distributor gear and pump the pan dry faster in a high rpm run. It's really your call.

[70rs]

Thanks Todd. I'll do some research on it and figure it out. (the oil pump spring)
I looked up some oil t stats and that will be a piece of cake to work in at this point.
There is a decent selection of oil coolers at Summit. Some with fans and some without.

[70rs]

Ok, I finally got the whole block issue dealt with. I have a clean, stock bore 2 bolt 454 block. It has been tanked and magged. It's good to go. (and a great price too).
So now it's on to the build. I'll be ordering parts in a couple weeks and getting started on the machine work as soon as I have the rotating assembly.
Thanks for all the help to this point guys. I am sure there will be more questions as I am going to assemble it myself.
Eric:thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

Ok, I finally got the whole block issue dealt with. I have a clean, stock bore 2 bolt 454 block. It has been tanked and magged. It's good to go. (and a great price too).
So now it's on to the build. I'll be ordering parts in a couple weeks and getting started on the machine work as soon as I have the rotating assembly.
Thanks for all the help to this point guys. I am sure there will be more questions as I am going to assemble it myself.
Eric:thumbsup:

Looks like you're on your way Eric. Good deal.
Keep us posted.:cheers: