Rear swaybar on '81 Camaro...

[CamaroPat]

Obviously since I'm on this site I want to go around some corners. The car I'm working on right now is a 1981 Camaro. It has a factory swaybar. I've read that these have a negative effect on handling performance on 2nd-gen F-bodies. I haven't driven the car in about eight years, so I can't accurately remember how it handled and what it felt like it needed. Right now it's all stock, but that's going to change as soon as I can afford it. Should I pull the swaybar off? I don't have an accelerometer. Should I just use the ol' seat-of-the-pants-ometer? Anyone have any experience in this arena?

[Bryce]

autometer d-pic gauge is awesome. right at $200 gives acceleration in all four directions and a lot of other cool stuff.

I broke the rear sway bar on my 95 stang, that pulls 1g. I like the back end a little loose and i think it handles better. but that is going to be a driving style decision. good luck, keep us posted

[Marcus SC&C]

That cars chassis was designed and tuned by Herb Adams, who knows a little about suspension (you may want to check out his book Chassis Engineering). He felt that the cars pushed a bit without a rear bar. In fact he recomended running much larger bars front and rear for performance use. I`ve had nine 2nd gen F bodys myself and my preference varies a bit with setup but generally I prefered them with one. If the car pushes or doesn`t turn in as crisp as you like a rear bar is probably a good idea. If it`s loose and the rear end wants to slide out then try taking it off or running a larger front bar to balance the car out. Bear in mind that many folks have gotten so used to muscle cars understeering like nuts that a car that is in reality nice and neutral is percieved to be too loose. A well balanced car requires more precise/subtle steering and throttle inputs. Short answer, with the info provided nobody here can say if you should or shouldn`t run a rear bar. Since it`s already on there I`d leave it until you get the care done and get some seat time in it then base your decisions on what the car and your driving style want. Mark SC&C

[Hotchkis]

We've done some rigorous slalom, skid pad, auto-cross and road course testing, and found that the rear sway bar is definitely key on 2nd Gen F-bodies. With a stock bar the cars push a little, with no bar (particularly with stock sheetmetal and an iron motor) understeer would be substantial. A high-performance tubular rear bar improves overall handling and driver control on a tight course.

Here are a few videos of Mary Pozzi, who campaigns one of the fastest 2nd Gen auto cross Camaros in the county. She's running our TVS including the rear bar (http://www.hotchkis.net/7081_gm_fbody_rear_sport_sway_bar.html).

Mary Pozzi @ Costa Mesa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juCQ6Zl8f_k)

Mary Pozzi @ Del Mar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgDgOr-B2QE)

In fact, we just finished track testing a new system for the late 2nd gen Camaros Firebirds last week and the performance was incredible. We'll have video of that test soon, here's a shot in the meantime:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/inkahntrol/Fontana03.jpg

[CamaroPat]

Thanks very much for the input everyone. Hotchkis, I actually contacted your company recently. I got an almost immediate response, great customer service. The small block TVS is actually at the top of my list of things to do. I've had a few other 2nd gens and I remember them pushing pretty badly, but they were street/strip cars. Plowing wide in a corner at 100+ mph is pretty terrifying when all you've got to save yourself is a 30 year safety equipment. I do like my cars a little "loose", just not twitchy. I think I'll just start by bolting on the entire TVS and trying it out, then experimenting with different durometer bushings and also maybe a test ride sans rear bar.

[CamaroPat]

Hotchkis, just checked out the clips of Mary Pozzi, what else does she have done to the car? Is she running tubular control arms or coilovers? The car looked very level and responsive. Is she running r-compounds? If performance like that is just a TVS away, SIGN ME UP!!!

[Hotchkis]

Mary is running front and rear springs, subframe connectors, front and rear sway bars and a few home-brewed mods that she and her husband David have cooked up. However the '80 T/A in that picture was a totally stock old Pontiac before we installed the complete TVS plus upper and lower A-Arms and Subframe connectors and it ran nearly as fast through the slalom as my personal '99 Z28 SS with sticky tires. Check it out:

T/A Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtCbzhTAilM)

[mpozziCPL]

Hi CamaroPat ...

Thanks for the nice words and the tires are Kumho Ecsta XS (treadwear 180). They're an excellent street tire that can serve double duty for autocross as well. While they're not as sticky as R-comps, they're perfect for the GoodGuys autocrosses. I've got 255's on the front (17x8) and 285's on the rear (17x9.5).

My '73 is about 90% Hotchkis TVS and tubular arms are next on the list. I chose Hotchkis back in 2002 when I started with the build and the products are excellent. I also really like that there are no surprises as the car's quite predictable and very confirmed in it's job. It gives awesome feedback and is compliant which is exactly what you want for a fun, well mannered, street car.

If you're ever in Northern California, PM me ahead of time and I'll take you for a fun ride.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[70rs]

Mary, Hotchkis and camaropat,
Thanks for all of this good info. I am building a second gen now and will be using the TVS as well. The tuning of suspension is totally new to me so this thread helps a bunch.:cheers:

[pro-tour79]

the second gens do respond to rear sway bars better than 1st gens but again it is a tunning device and many factors affect weather you need a rear bar or not or what size, depending on the application and how well the suspension is designed for that application, the most over looked part of a car's handling is the driver!, if you don't feel confident you will not get that car to handle well regardless of any parts put on the car.