The new found popularity of 2nd-gen F-Bodies...

[CamaroPat]

What do you guys think of the explosion in popularity that 2nd-gen (1970-81) Camaros and Firebirds are currently experiencing? Will they become common and run of the mill like 1st-gen Camaros? Will this spike in demand drive the price higher than is justified? Is increased popularity of any car still beneficial for our hobby and this industry in general? What do you guys think?

[skatinjay27]

What do you guys think of the explosion in popularity that 2nd-gen (1970-81) Camaros and Firebirds are currently experiencing? Will they become common and run of the mill like 1st-gen Camaros? Will this spike in demand drive the price higher than is justified? Is increased popularity of any car still beneficial for our hobby and this industry in general? What do you guys think?1970-73s are becoming more popular and "could" brush the popularity #s of 1st gens but i really doubt 74-81s will...

[Spiffav8]

There will always be some interest in every gen and from time to time we will see a spike in one era or another. It just depends on which generation is building the car.

I do agree with Aj on the 2nd gens in that 70-73 will rule that generation of Camaro.

[fleetus macmullitz]

I'm looking for a '69 Camaro to build, but IMO a real '70-73 Trans-Am is badder than any original Camaro and even most modded Camaros.

What else is there to do on those cars besides wheels and tires?

Pontiac simply nailed it. :D

[Ummgawa]

I'll have to take some folk to task on the 74 Camaro. Very unique in that it had the the 70-73 rear window treatment and a lot of one off stuff like true dual exaust and a corvette engine(L-82) in the Z-28.

[takid455]

2nd gens have been on the rise for some time now. I used to pick up runners for 500, now garbage is 1500. I will state that the 70-73 body style is in demand as with the 77/78 style not far behind. the later years way surpass the early years in production, so their prices will be lower. this is for the firebirds. I am not too informed on the sister f body.

[BonzoHansen]

Pros: More parts will be reproduced, as well as increased aftermarket support

Cons: Car prices are going up.

[CamaroPat]

I've seen a huge surge in aftermarket support, which I love, since I own a 1981 Camaro and I've gone through a handful of other 2nd-gens. I'm glad to hear someone else mention the odd-ball features of the '74 model. I've considered numerous directions for builds, but as mentioned, the prices have sky-rocketed. I picked my '81 up for a grand, after helping my buddy put four grand in parts in it. I nabbed a '79 Camaro that ran high tens for $2k back in '03. I compared my car to some others on ebay and it looks like my $1000 car could sell for $8k. Now even the newer 2nd-gens are old enough to be regarded as muscle cars, and they're being priced as such. All of the really clapped out junk examples of these cars are off the road and all that's really left for sale is the well preserved stuff. Now 3rd and 4th-gens seem to be the cars that can be picked up cheap, in rough shape, but drivable. That's just the way the cycle goes I guess.

[Desert68]

I'll have to take some folk to task on the 74 Camaro. Very unique in that it had the the 70-73 rear window treatment and a lot of one off stuff like true dual exaust and a corvette engine(L-82) in the Z-28.

And the '74 Firebird as well. Clean front ends, same rear window as the earlier ones. The Formulas have clean lines.

[70rs]

When I bought my 68 rs back in 1988 it had a fresh build on the original 327 and the factory 4 speed and original rear end were still in it. The body was a solid 7 on a 1-10 scale. It had the original interior as well but needed to be re done. I paid 2200.00 for it. I thought I got a good deal at the time.
The 1970 rs I have now came to me in bare metal, blown non original engine, blown non original auto trans, had been sitting for about 6 years before media blasting so all rubber, hoses, grommets, bushings....it's all shot. The interior is also pretty well toast.
I paid 4500.00 for it. I think it was a fair price. It did come with every bit of original sheet metal and exterior trim. Also came with new aftermarket fenders, hood, rear quarters, rear tail light panel, trunk lid and a new 3 pc spoiler. The only body panels that need to be changed are the fenders.

So the second gens are going up in value. I got in before it went nuts like the first gens. There was no way I could afford the entry fee to play with a 67-69 in as good of shape as my 70.
I'm glad I got it when I did.

[COYBILT]

I'm looking for a '69 Camaro to build, but IMO a real '70-73 Trans-Am is badder than any original Camaro and even most modded Camaros.

What else is there to do on those cars besides wheels and tires?

Pontiac simply nailed it. :D

I love the camaro's, but the 70-73 trans am was just a beautiful car. I have always wanted one since I was a young boy.

I can see the second gens taking off, well they sorta have any way. To give you a example, I could have picked up a 1972 trans am for 3500 8 years ago. The car looked like it was only 12 years old cosmeticly. It boasted a 455/4 speed and 8 track. I couldn't touch one of these trans am's, so original and virgin like this one now for less then 10-15 grand easy. I miss that car and wish I could have bought it I would still have it if that were the case.

I will say this though, after driving one of the late 70's trans am's I am glad I bought my 65 GTO.
The second gens have a lot of plastic and extremely heavy doors.

[fleetus macmullitz]

I will say this though, after driving one of the late 70's trans am's I am glad I bought my 65 GTO. The second gens have a lot of plastic and extremely heavy doors.

Agreed.

I had a '74 455 T/A and hated how heavy the doors were on that thing.

[WSSix]

No kidding. My 79 TA is a heavy pig overall. 3800 pounds easily.

I think the spike is good and bad. More good than bad though so I'm ok with it for now. Maybe in another 5 to 10 if I go to get a second I'll be bitching because of the price tag. For now though, I'm good.

[critter]

1974 was the first year for side impact standards. Pontiac welded in I beams inside the doors to pass. I have one, I know. They're VERY heavy.

[redfire69]

The only thing they should have done differently is kept with the fiberglass instead of the urethane parts. The late second gens bumpers and spoilers would hold paint alot longer if they were fiberglass. You can do everything right on these cars and still have hair line cracks after just a couple of years...

[buickfunnycar.com]

Love the early 2nd Gen cars and have been fighting the good fight since 1980 with mine...:yes:
Overall,much better handling car than the 1st Gens with the relocation of the steering box,bigger wheelwells means you can stuff bigger rubber there as well.

Had Penske & Donohue stayed with GM for the 1970 season,there is NO DOUBT in my mine they would have been the SCCA Trans-Am champions and not Ford.The '70 cars were designed with racing in mind.

[WSSix]

The only thing they should have done differently is kept with the fiberglass instead of the urethane parts. The late second gens bumpers and spoilers would hold paint alot longer if they were fiberglass. You can do everything right on these cars and still have hair line cracks after just a couple of years...

I'm dealing with the rubber under the bumper cover sagging and thus the nose sagging for lack of support. The rear isn't so bad but the front ends do not hold up well you are right

[CamaroPat]

You guys are hitting the nail on the head. A few years back I thought the doors were so heavy just because of the size. I've been around some earlier F-bodies and what a difference! I'm going to replace the hinges on my '81 this summer and it looks like somebody already has. If my doors weren't in such good shape, I'd replace them. I have yet to see a '74-'81 F-body with original doors and hinges that don't sag. On the subject of fiberglass and urethane, fiberglass noses and rear bumper covers are available, you just have to look a bit. The rear bumpers (in fiberglass) seem to always include the tail panel and I don't know what effect that will have on structural integrity. My paint looks great everywhere but on the bumpers and where one fender was hit. The nose probably won't look perfect no matter what I do to counteract the sagging (filler I guess?) and there isn't a flex agent on the market that'll keep the paint intact for any lengthy amount of time.

[redfire69]

I was lucky enough to come across a new GM nose cover for my 80 TA before they stopped producing them. It was expensive, but worth it. 78 TA's are getting some love from Year One with their fiberglass bumpers which I'm sure will hold up better. - Ron

I'm dealing with the rubber under the bumper cover sagging and thus the nose sagging for lack of support. The rear isn't so bad but the front ends do not hold up well you are right

[BonzoHansen]

I was lucky enough to come across a new GM nose cover for my 80 TA before they stopped producing them. It was expensive, but worth it. 78 TA's are getting some love from Year One with their fiberglass bumpers which I'm sure will hold up better. - Ron

One of the reasons I obught my Z is I opened the trunk and saw GM stickers in them. OE stuff when they were replaced.

[TreySmith]

I love mine, 80 Special Edition for $2500..

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3026/picture1051.jpg

[lawbreaker2]

I have a 80 t/a pace car and a Lucy blue 70 t/a and love them both.:thumbsup: And I only paid $1,500 for my 70, but that was back in 87':lol:

[NOT A TA]

What do you guys think of the explosion in popularity that 2nd-gen (1970-81) Camaros and Firebirds are currently experiencing? Will they become common and run of the mill like 1st-gen Camaros? Will this spike in demand drive the price higher than is justified? Is increased popularity of any car still beneficial for our hobby and this industry in general? What do you guys think?


I think that what occurs to some degree is that the cars highschoolers lusted after become popular cars to restore/restify/hot rod. This happens when those highschoolers get to the age where they have the disposable income and time to play with them. Of course there's always older and younger folks who like the particular body styles and get involved but the majority of the cars are being done by the age group that wanted them (or had them) in high school.

The 2nd gen F body platform was probably the most desireable (realisticly affordable) performance car for highschoolers during the 70's and early 80's because of the shear volume of cars produced and the affordability of used cars. Sure there were 442s, GTO's, Aspen RT's,Turbo Regals etc but there were just soooo many F bodys available they were the common choice.

Now that the age bracket of highschoolers who had or wanted a 2nd gen F body is entering (or in) their time of life where they have the time and disposable income the 2nd gens are becoming popular rebuild platforms. If my theory holds true G bodies 78 and up then fox body Mustangs and 3rd gen F bodies will start to go up in value in a few years as highschoolers that wanted them enters the rebuilder age.

When I was in high school (graduated 76) I had a red 68 Camaro and parked in a parking lot filled with 1st gens. There was also a 2nd gen parking lot filled with them. I now own a red 67 Camaro RS SS Conv. and a 70 Firebird TA clone. I guess I fit right into my theory! AHAHAHA

The increased demand as 2nd gens are rebuilt will no doubt raise the entry fee. Even cars that would have been junked 10 years ago will be sold for parts. The good side is that there's more aftermarket support which is beneficial. Now look at all the cool goodies and reproduction parts for 2nd gens on the market compared with 15 years ago! It's also good for the hobby because it keeps the vendors going otherwise once an age group rebuilt the cars they desired everyone would be done.

[70rs]

I agree with you John. (by the way, how the heck are you?)
My HS parking lot was FULL of second gen camaros and firebirds. As well as early mustangs and pintostangs. Most of the people I still stay in touch with from back then all have a favorite story that involves those cars. (Dukes of Hazzard jumps over rail road tracks in a 79 rally sport, NOT A GOOD IDEA)

The cost to buy back then was dirt and they were everywhere you looked. Now those same people have a little more cash to work with and want to re live those times. Now they can build them how they want, back then they didn't have the money. So as demand goes up and supply goes down the prices start to rise. I could have bought a PERFECT '70 rs with a monster motor back then for what I paid for the "project" I have now.

[BonzoHansen]

I think that what occurs to some degree is that the cars highschoolers lusted after become popular cars to restore/restify/hot rod. This happens when those highschoolers get to the age where they have the disposable income and time to play with them. Of course there's always older and younger folks who like the particular body styles and get involved but the majority of the cars are being done by the age group that wanted them (or had them) in high school.The price of nice 3rd gens is going up and I feel this is exactly why.

I had a 2nd gen & a 3rd gen in HS....

[TreySmith]

I think it is funny because I have a 80, and I am in high school! Soon to be a Junior.

The reason it is funny is because I was getting gas and a guy was like "Hey, I had one of those in high school!" I said "No sh*t, so did I!!!" and he laughed. It was one of those cool moments where I felt proud of my car. I even had a girl start talking to me about one she had exactly like mine. I thought it was cool because it wasn't something you would expect she would have. She was probably early 30's.


These cars are cool because they are cheap, have good support and pull big bucks when done right.


Hopefully it will be painted this month.

[takid455]

... I even had a girl start talking to me about one she had exactly like mine. I thought it was cool because it wasn't something you would expect she would have. She was and probably early 30's...



And......

did you give her ride?? Surely she has memories of the area behind the driver's seat.:D

[TreySmith]

:D She wasn't that bad looking either.

[lawbreaker2]

I agree with you John. (by the way, how the heck are you?)
My HS parking lot was FULL of second gen camaros and firebirds. As well as early mustangs and pintostangs. Most of the people I still stay in touch with from back then all have a favorite story that involves those cars. (Dukes of Hazzard jumps over rail road tracks in a 79 rally sport, NOT A GOOD IDEA)

The cost to buy back then was dirt and they were everywhere you looked. Now those same people have a little more cash to work with and want to re live those times. Now they can build them how they want, back then they didn't have the money. So as demand goes up and supply goes down the prices start to rise. I could have bought a PERFECT '70 rs with a monster motor back then for what I paid for the "project" I have now.

OMG!!!!:lol: That is so funny what you said about jumping over R/R We use to have a R/R track on the way to JVS andit was on a hill and you got some good air off those things till they took it out and level the road, But it's funny cuz my buddy that I road home with alot had a 79 rally sport and would jump them at 70mph and he also would jump them with his 3 wheeler oh and I use to live right next to those tracks and would see alot of roll overs to.:D the good old days. Oh buy the way Class of 87' here.:cheers: Hair bands forever.:bow:

[lawbreaker2]

I'm also re-doing a 81 recaro pace car turbo t/a for the wife.:D And my 13 year daughter would like to have one now to restore.

[70rs]

Those RR tracks were a blast!! Hair bands rule! I'm 38 and the radio station I listen to plays a lot of late 80's to current rock. When the good songs from "back in the day" come on, whatever I am driving gets hammered on. I just can't help it. Good music makes me drive like an a** hole for some reason. I can't wait till the big block is in the Camaro!:beavis:

[syborg tt]

I am few weeks away from starting my second gen project and can't wait.

My best Friend had one growing up and it brings back great memories

[TreySmith]

OMG!!!!:lol: That is so funny what you said about jumping over R/R We use to have a R/R track on the way to JVS andit was on a hill and you got some good air off those things till they took it out and level the road, But it's funny cuz my buddy that I road home with alot had a 79 rally sport and would jump them at 70mph and he also would jump them with his 3 wheeler oh and I use to live right next to those tracks and would see alot of roll overs to.:D the good old days. Oh buy the way Class of 87' here.:cheers: Hair bands forever.:bow:I jumped the tracks once at 50mph, sure scared me. I like how the little "Low Trac" light comes on.. I couldn't imagine at 70mph, speed limit is 30mph for the tracks.

[70rs]

The fastest I ever jumped the tracks while I was driving, 45mph. And I could have used a fresh change of shorts after that.:rofl: We didn't have any "Low Trac" lights. You just heard the motor scream when you left the ground. Our set here was at the bottom of a long and steep hill with a slight right sweeper just before the tracks. If you didn't set up right after the corner you would land off the left side of the road down in the woods. I watched one guy do that after we all left a party spot. He was in front of me and hauling a**, he went wide, caught air and flew over the road into the trees. That was funny. I didn't have the balls to try any faster. The good thing was there were almost no injuries at those tracks, just a lot of wrecked suspension parts and soiled underwear.:lol: All of this while AC/DC or Iron Maiden was cranked up.
My son is 5. I know what goes around comes around, and I'm in deep s***!

Marty, do you have any pics or a build thread started yet? I'm working on my second gen now. I'd love to see what you do to yours after seeing how you did the truck.
Eric