Those of you who run a full frame under your 1st gen Camaro

[fleetus macmullitz]

Looking to buy a '69 Camaro and seriously considering the full frame option.

So I'm very interested in the reasons those of you who run one decided to go that route and how you feel about the results.

My previous experience in F-bodies was owning a stock 455 '74 Trans-Am.

Thanks.

[Flash68]

Skip you dirty dog you!

Why not a 68? :lol:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Skip you dirty dog you!

Why not a 68? :lol:

Like I can compete with Penny, MotiV8R, Vertigo and all your buddies making the '68 scene! :mad:


:lol:

The plan is to look like this but be PT/streetfighter thru and thru. Just like below but lowered of course. Use same style wheels but 17" keeping the dog dishes. Go for trick inside/under the car/under the hood. Changed because the more I thought it and seeing the 1st gens here I really wanted something a lot more 'tossable' than the much bigger and higher center of gravity '55. Plus the '69 ZL-1 is my favorite muscle car.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Camaro%20427/926f_3.jpg

[Flash68]

That sounds like an excellent blueprint for a 69. :yes:

[fleetus macmullitz]

I think a lot of people like this LS7 car below that Tom has posted on various boards recently. I prefer the real subtle exteriors and the redlines on these copo style cars. Park the thing on the street and have it get ignored is fine by me. I also really like what you, Rupp and Callahan have done to name just a few.

Anything but subtle!

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Camaro%20427/DSC03139.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Camaro%20427/DSC03144.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Camaro%20427/DSC03146.jpg

[Flash68]

Haven't seen that car posted anywhere. That's a pretty sweet sleeper look with that LS7. I like it.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Haven't seen that car posted anywhere. That's a pretty sweet sleeper look with that LS7. I like it.

Here's one of the threads Dave.

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55272

[AJSZR2326]

you asked about a full frame, its for added rigidity , put enough hp in to a stock f body and it will twist.

[fleetus macmullitz]

you asked about a full frame, its for added rigidity , put enough hp in to a stock f body and it will twist.

Exactly why I'm considering one.:)

I'd like to know if the extra time and money is worth the additional stiffness so I'd like to know how a full frame car compares to a 1st gen stiffened with all the usual components i.e. cage, sub-frame connectors

Interested in feedback from guys with a full frame 1st gen them or those here who have driven a car with one enough to be able to point out the differences.

Thanks...

[monza]

Skip you dirty dog you!

Why not a 68? :lol:

TASTE:P

[ProdigyCustoms]

We own both full frame and subframe cars, in convertibles to boot. if the subframe car is reinforced with a roll bar system, it is going to be plenty strong.

If I jack up EmptyNest (subrame) or Project Prodigy (full frame) the door gap will open a tiny bit on EmptyNest, but only a tiny bit. On Prodigy, no opening at all. Prodigy is amazingly stiff.

Is it worth the 1000 hours of extra work.................Hell No!

[fxstdale]

when I built mine I was considering the same Idea of a full frame option for my 68. I opted for the AME rear triangulated 4 bar clip which was .120 wall 2x4 rails, subframe conncectors are also .120 2x4 through floor style, with AME gt front clip and I tied it all togeather with a 8 point cage, so its going to be real stiff. I would have went with a full frame from AME if I would have needed floors. I could have bought the front and rear clips with sub frame connectors already welded in but for me the end result was the the same either way.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Is it worth the 1000 hours of extra work.................Hell No!

:lol:

Seriously, a 1000 hours?!

Ouch...I had no idea.

Then again, you guys may have lives...;)

[fleetus macmullitz]

when I built mine I was considering the same Idea of a full frame option for my 68. I opted for the AME rear triangulated 4 bar clip which was .120 wall 2x4 rails, subframe conncectors are also .120 2x4 through floor style, with AME gt front clip and I tied it all togeather with a 8 point cage, so its going to be real stiff. I would have went with a full frame from AME if I would have needed floors. I could have bought the front and rear clips with sub frame connectors already welded in but for me the end result was the the same either way.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Here's one of the threads Dave.

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55272

Thanks Skip. I'll take a look.


TASTE:P

hey now! be nice! :D

[CraigMorrison]

1000 hours to install a full frame on unibody car? That would equate to about $65,000-$75,000 extra on a build. Are you sure about this number Frank? I have seen our dealers in the 80-200hr range but not this much. Not trying to call you out, but that number seems excessive.

Edit- Just spoke with Alloway on his latest MaxG build. He has a sheetmetal shop roll the trans tunnel and driveshaft tunnel for him and doing the whole floor is about 100hours or "two weeks". It can take longer depending on how much you get into the firewall. Bobby felt that it was easier to re-floor a car than fabbing patch panels to repair a stock floor. Then add 20-40Hrs on building body mounts and brackets to hold the body to frame and you are in the 150hr range.

[DOOM]

We own both full frame and subframe cars, in convertibles to boot. if the subframe car is reinforced with a roll bar system, it is going to be plenty strong.

If I jack up EmptyNest (subrame) or Project Prodigy (full frame) the door gap will open a tiny bit on EmptyNest, but only a tiny bit. On Prodigy, no opening at all. Prodigy is amazingly stiff.

Is it worth the 1000 hours of extra work.................Hell No!

Okay Frank , are you in that spray booth without a mask again!!!:rofl: Just messen with ya!!!

[fleetus macmullitz]

1000 hours to install a full frame on unibody car? That would equate to about $65,000-$75,000 extra on a build. Are you sure about this number Frank? I have seen our dealers in the 80-200hr range but not this much. Not trying to call you out, but that number seems excessive.

Edit- Just spoke with Alloway on his latest MaxG build. He has a sheetmetal shop roll the trans tunnel and driveshaft tunnel for him and doing the whole floor is about 100hours or "two weeks". It can take longer depending on how much you get into the firewall. Bobby felt that it was easier to re-floor a car than fabbing patch panels to repair a stock floor. Then add 20-40Hrs on building body mounts and brackets to hold the body to frame and you are in the 150hr range.

Thanks Craig, that is very helpful info.

[comp-spec]

Depending on how fancy you get with the metal work, All said and done 150-200 hrs for Max-G install.Then from there, the sky's limit.

Just my 2cents.

[Blake Foster]

[QUOTE=comp-spec;212351]Depending on how fancy you get with the metal work, All said and done 150-200 hrs for Max-G install.Then from there, the sky's limit.

the biggest issue we see is the seat height!! the seat base ends up being higher in the car due to the exhaust and like pete said how fancy you want to get???

[fleetus macmullitz]

Thanks Pete and Blake...

Good point about the seat base.

But I'm 5'8" so maybe that helps.

I want to run auto-x/road courses yet at the same time would prefer to install as unobtrusive and as minimum a cage as allowable. Although I don't know the details on it, I know Ridetech offers a bolt in cage now.

I figured going full frame would might help me avoid a permanent cage.

I need a lot more info obviously at this point. :)

[comp-spec]

Bottom line full chassis
More work but, much more trick
Were building one now 2000hp no cage

[fleetus macmullitz]

Were building one now 2000hp no cage

Ouch! :wow:

On a 1st gen Camaro?

[comp-spec]

66 chevelle

[nvr2fst]

Is it worth the 1000 hours of extra work.................Hell No!

Come on Frank this is out of line subtract a "0" if your aggressively fast otherwise somewhere in the 200 range seems more like it.

The Chrysler 300 Troy and the boys put together wasnt no 1000hrs

[jcal87]

I'm betting he was exaggerating just a little bit.

[nvr2fst]

I'm betting he was exaggerating just a little bit.

I caught this fish one time......................

[tones2SS]

Haven't seen that car posted anywhere. That's a pretty sweet sleeper look with that LS7. I like it.

I agree.
I've never seen it before. I like it.:wow: :thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Just for another differing opinion.

I'm thinking a 1000 hours is alot and 100 hours if your sheetmetal work if going to be Bondo'd up. If memory serves me correct Alloway makes his floors out of 10 gauge steel.

I think a more reasonable number is maybe 400-500 hours with sheetmetal and tub work. I suppose you could build drag race 2 sides wheel tubes and glue the tub to the quarter panel, but we build the tub to have 3 sides and attach to the quarter like the factor one. I also think you have to take into account the fact you have to rework quite a few things. Gas tank needs new mounts, The brake pedal might drag on the floor or hang just a bit to low, Plus you cannot just shorten the pedal or you lose the ratio. You have to do new seat mounts in the floor. I'm sure there are a handful of other things that come up with doing a full frame especially in a camaro.

When We do the the tube frame stuff, we have to reinvent the wheel practically. Steering mounts different, brake pedals mount different, It is a never ending list of things that need to be changed to make things proper.
With the tube frame cars we build we are able to place the tube structure in a position to gain the most interior room. I'm 6'6" tall and can sit in John's ZO6 with a helmet on and the car has a rocker height of 5" and nothing hangs below that. But we ran the exhaust under the torque tube not under the seats. Plus the seats we have in Johns car are super tall. Putting seats in a stock camaro is hard enough if your above average height at all.


Just my 2 cents. We have a full tube frame we are building for a camaro right now. 5" of ground clearance, 47.5" to the roof at ride height with 19's and 20's. Should be interesting.

[fleetus macmullitz]

You're right, there are a lot of additional work to take into consideration going full frame.

I'm not going to run a cage because this car's main purpose is street use.

I still want it stiff enough to handle 600 bhp and occasional track use.

[ironworks]

You're right, there are a lot of additional work to take into consideration going full frame.

I'm not going to run a cage because this car's main purpose is street use.

I still want it stiff enough to handle 600 bhp and occasional track use.

Main purpose or not a 600hp car that might see the track at all needs some kind of cage. Even a full framed car is going to flex and I would want the cage for safety reasons. Not running a cage is like saying " The main purpose of this car is to not go over 30mph, so I don't need seat belts, But I might go 50mph once in a while." But I will still skip the belts.

If your going to drive the car anywhere you might need a helmet, I would install a rollcage.

Even in the rookie run sessions at an open track day, you could see speeds above 70mph pretty easy at any given track, especially with 600hp. At a track like Buttonwillow where it would take amazing talent to hit a wall, you have the infield that had rolled a few cars that missed the turn or braked too late. They tell you in the drivers meeting if you go off the track just go straight and or only turn a bit, NO sharp turns to avoid a roll over. I would hate to be the guy who had to turn or slid off the track in a skid and happened to catch a rut and found out too late "Man I should have installed even a 4 point cage."


One of my first times at the track I saw a guy with a bad ass Cobra mustang run a few laps and at the end of the big staright away got on the brakes and just kept right on sailing, Through the grass, the infield and off into BFE. He had the stock cobra brakes and I would guess the engine made more HP then the Brakes could stop multiple times from the high speed the engine could propel the car too. I bet he decided as soon as he hit the Brakes and nothing happened....... I should have called WWWWIIIIILLLLLWWWOOOODD.


Track events are serious deals and require alot more then an autocross or street car. Unless your just out there for parade laps....

[fleetus macmullitz]

Rodger,

I should have clarified, I'm not planning a welded in cage, but I'll make provisions for the Ride Tech Tiger Cage.

Yes, safety is not something to gamble with, and I wouldn't.

Thanks.

[customcam]

500 hours is excessive
take it someone that has experience in doing it regularly, they dont sit there and scratch there head for hours and charge you for it...
500x75= $37.500 :wow:

[nvr2fst]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Camaro%20427/DSC03139.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Camaro%20427/DSC03144.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Camaro%20427/DSC03146.jpg

This is probably one of the sweetest "sleeper" cars Ive seen in awhile

[fleetus macmullitz]

500 hours is excessive
take it someone that has experience in doing it regularly, they dont sit there and scratch there head for hours and charge you for it...
500x75= $37.500 :wow:

Agreed.

[fleetus macmullitz]

This is probably one of the sweetest "sleeper" cars Ive seen in awhile

It sure is. :thumbsup: