Air ride, Watts link and Sway bar install...

[JRouche]

Hey guys. This is a re-run from a couple other sites, sorry if its a bore :)

My car is a 62 Chevy II Nova coupe that I bought in 1995. Was just gonna keep the 350/350 combo and have fun driving it. But the front drum brakes were just too scary. So I installed a Mustang II front (build pics on that later) so I could have disc brakes. And with the nice front I wanted a lil more at the rear. So I bought an Art Morrison 4-link rear clip and installed that. Built an edelbrock injected engine then had a few changes in life. Family (wife wanted kids), moved to a house (was in a condo) and my job was demanding more, more, more. So the car, still un-driven was put on the back burner for many years.

I retired last year so full steam ahead on the car. The 4-link was used for simplicity of the build back in 95 when not much was available for the Novas. But after thinking about it I didn't like some of the characteristics of the 4-link. Narrow pan hard bar and the coil over placements. I did alot of looking around and decided to use Air Ride technologies air ride system with the shockwave air springs and hydraulic shocks. And I couldn't get a longer pan hard bar in there, the one I had was only 24" long, too short, the rear would wallow around on the street, yeah, I did get to drive it around on the local neighborhood streets a lil. So I liked the idea of a watts link. The kits that are out there are great!! But again, I was limited on space so I made up my own. No real cost savings..

So here are some pics of that install. It was fun, and frustrating at the same time..

I have never worked on cars before, this is my first. And I never welded before. So you will see alot of odd looking ideas and some bad welds. I know cause I have to look at them everyday LOL But,,, its the best I can do and its solid so Im not afraid of it coming apart.

Anyway, enough of my back peddling trying to justify the rough looking work. Enjoy and please comment, any of your knowledge will be great for the next project (71 Fiat spider with a large-ish V6. JR


When I bought the car, 1995....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/whenbought1995.jpg

Art Morrison rear clip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/artmorrisonclip.jpg

After the rear clip install in 95. Thats kinda covered in another post of mine. Wont bore ya more than Im gonna :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/2.jpg


First job at hand was the lower shockwave mounts. I used some 9" leaf spring perches cut in half. Had to use two cause they aren't exactly in half. They are heavy duty brackets, 1/4" bent steel. Some additional 1/4" plate to add to the beef of it. I was going to be using the holes in single shear for the shock mounts and I thought a 1/2" would be better than a 1/4" shear plane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/5.jpg

TIG welded up and ready to go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/6.jpg

MIG welded onto the axle housing. I didn't disassemble the housing. I did make sure all the weight was off the housing for the weld. And I welded in about 1.5" sections and cooled the area with a damp rag in between. Took a long time but it never got the housing tube past warm to the touch after cooling. And I beveled the heck out of the brackets so the penetration is pretty good. They aren't going anywhere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/7.jpg

Next was the upper mount. I get alot of use outta this lil 7" band saw.. 1/2" plate.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/9.jpg

[JRouche]

Plasma cut the extra off to make the right shape.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/12.jpg

Shock used for placement of the upper mount. It is all at ride height. Coilovers still in place. I made some stainless steel spacers so if I need to adjust the 4-link in the future I have some wiggle room inside of the upper mount. The 4-link bars are at their shortest length right now. If I adjust them it may move the rear end back some.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/14.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/20.jpg

Time to weld in the uppers but no way did I want the shocks in there, rubber!! So I made these links that are the same length eye to eye as the shocks at ride height. And they were gonna be needed for the watts link welding too. They helped to get each side of the car exactly right for height when making the watts. I measured everything so many times, jumping back and forth. But the sides are equal to within a 32nd of and inch. And thats axle to frame and body to ground.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/16.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/17.jpg

Plasti-coat bed liner paint I love so much, you will see it on everything.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/18.jpg

Finally, the coilovers are outta there, full weight on the struts I made. Ill need the additional space, going be filled up soon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/19coiloversgone.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/21.jpg

[JRouche]

I was a lil pissed. AR sent me the shockwaves with the optional air can (big ugly can over the bag) they sell for a hundred bucks. I didn't want it, looked cheesy IMO.. But. I thought I would give them a chance. If I didn't like the look I could remove them later. No, they didn't charge me for them. Guess they were having alot of problems with guys tearing the bags due to close tolerances. So I really didn't want a massive aluminum can sitting in there. Time for some plasti-coat!!

Ghetto paint booth LOL

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/22.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Shockwave/shockwaves.jpg

So thats the coilover swap. Watts link next..

Watts link time.. I stole some ideas from just about everyone. Looked at ALL the pics out there. Came down to space limitations. I ended up just going simple.

I bought the center pivot from Tim over at Fay's 2. Nice piece. And the DOM tube and weld in ends from another company. I used QA1 rod ends, some of the best out there. I used 3/4x5/8" instead of the 3/4x3/4" Tim uses so I had to make some shims for the center pivot arm mounts.

Now bolts. I could go on and on about bolts. But basically I looked into some NAS (aircraft) bolts cause this stuff is in shear, watts and shock mounts and I wanted the proper grip length. UMMM!! 90 bucks a bolt. I called seven companies all over the US. Yeah, all the regulars, AC spruce, coast fabrication, and all the same. So there are "grade 9" bolts available. Fastenel, Grainger (PFC) and CAT were who I used to get the right length bolts so ALL the shear joints had the grip in shear, never the threads. The grade 9 bolts are all 180k PSI. And really, they are great fasteners and the price was right. Still a couple hundred in bolts.

Anyway.. Some pics....

This is the original pan hard bar, very short, gotta go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/a.jpg

My shopping list. Prolly four dealers here

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/b.jpg

Links TIG welded up. I know, not the greatest welds but they are HOT and deep. Had to chase the threads after welding.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/c.jpg

And the center pivot mounting. Started as a 1/2" plate. I drilled the 3/4" holes under sized and reamed to a tight slip fit for the center bolt. Then clamped it up to my welding table, its a beast of a table. I used some 2x2" 1/4" wall tube. The stuff is very stiff. Tacked it up, both sides, heavy beveling at the joints then took it outside to put some real heat to it. MIG welded it up tight. Sanded the welds down on one side to have clearance for the center pivot and it helped the appearance too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/g.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/h.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/i.jpg

[JRouche]

Test fitting it up in the car. I used the same 2x2" tube for the cross member to attach it to the frame. I made some angled braces out of heavy walled 2x1.5" tube that would be up above the line of site. Welded it in. That my friend was a drag. Up under the car, leather draped everywhere on the car and myself as Im on my and had to be directly under the weld to see it. And I had the welder on full tilt, welding the 1/4" wall tube to the frame. Heavy bevels again. But I wanted a SOLID connection. Nothing worse than cold joints, not a one here. But it was tight, just to get the gun tip in there, and I dont pull the trigger unless I can see the joint (auto helmet is a must). Wasn't diggin this part at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/j.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/k.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/l.jpg

Next was the axle tube mounts. Stole this idea from Tim at Fay's. Sorry. Heavy duty 1/4" steel axle clamps. Oh, they dont move at all with just the slightest bolt tightening. Clamp them down tight and they are NOT gonna slip. The full contact makes them so solid. I was kinda wondering if they would deform my axle tubes if I really put the wrench to the bolts so I clamped them up to a thin walled exhaust tube I had. And really laid on the wrench. Didn't deform the 16ga tube at all, no worries for the axle tubes. Oh, and there was alot of pre-weld measuring steps, alot. The arms are clocked different for each side.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/m.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/n.jpg

Welded while clamped.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/o.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/p.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/q.jpg


Ready to bolt up

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/s.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/x.jpg

[JRouche]

Oh, and bolts.. Some of the fasteners if yer interested. These are all "grade 9" bolts. But I wanted to show how they are hardened. Pretty cool actually. I had to turn down the watts link arm pivot bolts to get the right grip length. I really noticed how hard the outer case hardening was on the bolt and how it got softer at the center. You can see it on the turned end. And when I say hard I mean it. I was using some good carbide inserts and for a second I thought about grabbing the CBN inserts. But I just cranked up the RPMs and let the sparks fly, I love hard turning… But you can see the softer center of the bolt. Thats a good bolt. Not just a bulk hardening of the entire bolt. Has a hard outer surface, pretty deep really, and a softer core. Dont ever let anyone tell you a grade five bolt is better cause a grade 8 bolt is too hard, its just comical some of the threads I read.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/t.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/u.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/v.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Watts%20link/w.jpg


Ok, so I'm gonna wrap this up. Sway bar is next. I looked into the sets available. Again, space was an issue, and rates really. My lower roll center with the watts link is gonna give more body roll. So I asked and looked around alot for a good starting point for the bar spring rate needed. Kinda a shot in the dark really without driving the car. But I decided on around 295lbs for the bar. And I already decided on a three piece bar from Speedway Engineering. They have some great stuff, many three piece bars you see labeled under a diff name may be their bar.

Its a straight torsion bar, solid or hollow, with splined ends. The arms are splined also and they come undrilled for the links. So you determine the rate you need and find the length bar that will suit the space issues. Thats where I screwed up, had to buy another bar cause my tires were too close to the first bar's arms. So anyway, get yer rates you need, the length bar that fits and drill the arms for the proper rate. They can be drilled from 10 to 15 inches for various rates.
I ordered the low profile pillow blocks. They come drilled to bolt them to the frame. I wanted a different mount. I made some brackets to bolt through the frame sideways instead of up through the frame.

I had intentions of being able to slide the mounts fore and aft to adjust for sway bar rates and just change the arm mounting holes. Not gonna happen that way. Too difficult to drill perfect holes through the frame. So I'll just get a different bar, same length but different rate if I need to change the rate later down the road. Gotta drive it first to even get to that point. So, here are the pics...

Made some brackets for the pillow blocks. It was a slow process. There is rubber in there. So I plug welded the holes up, cooled with a wet rag in between, made a weld, cooled, and so on. Never got it hot on the rubber side. LONG process.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/b.jpg

They weren't set up with zerks so I drilled and tapped some holes and put on some zerks. I also lightly grooved the bearings in an outward spiral direction to allow the grease to move to the entire surface of the bearing. It seems to work, I have done it on some bed mills too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/pivot.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/d.jpg

Made a lil tool to help with holding the bar and pillow bocks up while I figured out the placement.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/e.jpg

Arms drilled and reamed for the links.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/f.jpg

Measuring up the link mounts. I can conveniently use the flat I welded to the spring perch earlier. Yeah, it was planned. Yeah RIGHT!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/g.jpg

[JRouche]

Some Zoop seal to protect the links?? I'm just looking for stuff to Zoop, have so much left over from the wheels I did..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Sway%20bar/h.jpg

Ok, I know, long thread. Here are the last pics as its all done..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/b1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/d.jpg

Comparison………
Before http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/f.jpg

After
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/g.jpg


On the ground, not ride height but sitting on the bump stops.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/Rear%20rebuild/Final%20pics/h.jpg


Sorry for the long thread, I still had to edit out a hundred pics. And I tend to get a lil long winded LOL The front end is jacked three feet in the air and the control arms are on the bench getting welded on this week. Hope the front goes faster. Thanks for reading, JR

[jack67rs]

great shots! nice work also, keep us posted :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

You have some serious talent. You must have 500 hours in that job.

[simbad's68]

Nice work!! Keep the pics comming.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Very nice work.... I'm impressed.

So you decided to take the Air Cans off :)

I like the braided line running to the shocks.... I may just do that on mine too....

[JRouche]

You have some serious talent. You must have 500 hours in that job.

No, only took a weekend. Just some glue and paint. Looks good on pictures, dont dare drive it LOL But yeah, more time than it would take most folks, I make more mistakes that I have to fix. And sure as sh*t, everytime I go to work on it something else (tools) breaks and I spend a day fixing that. Thanks!!! JR

[JRouche]

Very nice work.... I'm impressed.

So you decided to take the Air Cans off :)

I like the braided line running to the shocks.... I may just do that on mine too....

Yeah.. They were hitting on their lower edge at the lower deflated height. No way around it. Bummer cause I spent time painting them but I really didnt want them in there anyway. Had to make a tool to grab the shock shaft without marring it and put some heat to the upper eye to melt the loctite. Came right off after heat. Wont come off without it. Re-glued the eye on and its done. JR

[syborg tt]

great work -thanks for sharing the pics

[camaro2nv]

Very nice work, great job!

[novanutcase]

Looking good Jay!:thumbsup:

John

[manny z]

nice wright up. I like the watts link set-up. It gives me ideas on what i might do to my charger in the near future.

[michael6372]

Looks AWESOME!! Great write up and pics!! Very impressive work.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[wedged]

what made you decide to mount the pivot to the frame instead of putting the pivot on the axle housing ? I'd also like to hear thoughts of others regarding this.

[JRouche]

what made you decide to mount the pivot to the frame instead of putting the pivot on the axle housing ? I'd also like to hear thoughts of others regarding this.

Thanks for all the encouragement guys!!!

Now, as far as the pivot being placed on the frame or the axle. Alot of discussion about it. Pros and cons for each.

I went with the frame mount for a couple reasons.

With a watts link the pivot point determines the roll center height. And Im not an expert here but I will describe it as I understand it.

Roll center at the rear is usually fairly high, compared to the front which is usually very low. So draw a line between the two points and you have your roll axis. Drive a rod through your car on that axis and thats how the body will roll, or more importantly thats how the loads will be felt on the body and suspension. Drive another rod through the car at the center of gravity. It will be above the other rod. But now you can see where the force of the CG is pushing on the other rod. The longer the distance (more leverage) the more the body will roll. See the front rolling more.

The front will want to roll more, picture all the weight is above the roll center (the front RC height is usually in the dirt), so there is more force to push it over. And at the rear, with a high roll center, say with a top mounted pan hard bar, the weight of the car is alot less above the roll center so it rolls less. One of the reasons you use a smaller roll bar in back.

But a high roll center isnt always great cause now the suspension cant control the body as well, its regulated to more of the vertical weight control and not as much for lateral load shift, the turns. I kinda imagine a really high roll center in the back will tend to push the rear end into a slide instead of allowing the springs to compress and do their job. Body roll is actually a good thing. Too much no, but yeah, you need some body roll on our cars. And Ive actually been able to take a large sedan through the cones that had a terrible amount of roll at a good clip. Sheriffs academy. Felt like I was peeling the tires off the rim, but it was predictable.

Ok, nuther point. Moving roll center height. With a frame mounted pivot the roll center height moves with the center of gravity as you drive. Remember that weight (weight above the center of gravity) above the roll center that wants to push the car over in a turn. Well it gives a more consistent feel to the driver. As you go into a turn that is rough, wheels moving up and down through the turn the body will roll at the same amount through that turn (you dont even want to see where the front roll center is moving YIKES). The rear roll center will be coupled to the center of gravity, stable and predictable.

Now on a axle mounted watts pivot the oppisite is true. The rear RC height is still the point where the pivot is. But now its linked to the moving (relative to the frame) axle. So as you go through the same turn the rear roll center is changing in distance relative to the center of gravity of the car. Say WHOA!!! The feeling it gives the driver first is yikes, too much speed bud, throttle lift. What it feels like is the rear going into too much roll and its too high of a speed for the turn, then it flops over to too much rear stiffness as the axle moves. Back and forth. Unsettling. The rear will feel like its out of control and could be. You are changing the load transfer on the outside tire due to changing in perceived center of gravity because the axle is moving with the road. The center of gravity isnt changing any more than the other set up but the distance between the center of gravity and the roll center height IS changing so the end result is the same. The lever between the two points is changing so the load is changing. Not a great feeling. You will have enough squirliness with the front roll center changes. Up and down and sideways. We can talk about the front next week, thats really a difficult animal to control.

So, you have two pluses IMO for a frame mounted pivot.

Consistent distance between the center of gravity and rear roll center HEIGHT.

And a lower roll center height available with a frame mounted pivot..

Ok, ya want some of the downers?? Umm, fabrication. Many cars just dont have the room for a stout frame to mount the pivot. I think both should be as stout. The whole system can see 2000lbs of load and from what I have read can go to 10,000lbs.

Nuther one. Most of the aftermarket systems use a axle mounted pivot. For the ease of packaging Im sure. Fayes over came that. They do the frame mount and at a great price. I highly recommend their product.

Ok... now that I burned yer ears off with alot of babble, not much of it real knowledge, just my opinion DIVE IN!!! LOL

Yeah really, you will do what works for you. Thats all any of us do right. Whats within our grasp. My only solid point. Build it SOLID. I have life insurance and AAA but would rather not use any of it yet :) JR

[novanutcase]

I have life insurance and AAA but would rather not use any of it yet :) JR

You forgot Jose Cuervo......:lol:

John

[wedged]

Thanks ! Any one else have mounting location comments ? I thought putting the pivot on the axle might look a little cleaner, but if the frame mount works better.... My application will be a little more toward pro-street with 18" wide tires on the back. You project caught my eye because the rar suspension will be similar, but I may end up with bags in the location of the stock coil overs.

[JRouche]

You forgot Jose Cuervo......:lol:

John

EXACTLY!!! Sauza actually but yer close :goofy: YUM!!!! JR

[michael6372]

Any updates???

[JRouche]

Any updates???

Nope, still Sauza.. O wait, you mean the car right?? :) Thanks for asking.

Actually there has been alot of progress. On the front end, the rear is done.

And I really thought the front was gonna be a breeze. I already had a mustang II suspension. I was thinking that adapting the air ride shock waves in place of the springs and shocks was gonna be a piece of cake compared to the rear end swap. Wrong answer.

I got the lower arms all trimmed of the spring pockets, welded up some additional plates to take place of the spring cup. Beefed up the bolt mounting area for coilover type stresses not just a shock anymore.

Then decided I didnt want the rubber bushings so looked high and low to see what I wanted. Delrin was in mind, but decided on some metal bushings. Made some on the lathe out of 4140PH steel. If they dont work I can still use part of them for a delrin bushing easy enough. I made them with grease fittings through the CAs so I can lube them. I dont know, they may be ok, I have my doubts. I have a bar of delrin sitting here just in case.

Then started looking at the upper arms. I had tubular arms already. But I wanted a lil more adjustability and I dont like the way the MII upper arms mount to the K-member. Its a sliding type mount for adjustment. Well that works great for the stock MII K-members. But most after market members there is a smooth top where the uppers mount. Where it needs to be kinda serrated and act as a friction surface to keep the upper's shaft from moving around.

So anyway, I bought some SPC upper control arms and welded in new mounts on the k-mem so its a vertical mount. I use shims and the adjustable arms to get the best curve of camber, camber gain and caster.

And beside a few issues with room to run the air lines for the springs and clearancing the surrounding metal to clear the air bag. Had to cut, weld and grind more than I expected. New beefier curved plates had to be put in place of what I had before. All that other work I did years ago was removed with the plasma. What a waste.

And thats not even a dis on the air bag system. I just eyeballed it at first and though she would clear. But no, a lil clearancing needed to take place. No big deal. Its all fun, its my hobby.

So after all the control arms were set up I made sure the new wilwood 13" brakes were gonna fit. That was after ALOT of talking with my supplier and running into some issues.

See, I needed a zero offset brake, my tire and wheel combo (8x17") were already set and very close, really close, no wiggle room at all. Well, they dont make one, wilwood. But my supplier does. But in actuality it seems they havent marketed it much because it wasnt correct. After some returns and some spacer issues I got it to work and it is perfect zero offset and the rotor runs true and square in the cal and right in the center of the cal. My custom set of spacers made it happen. More lathe work :)

So then after all the other stuff was done the hard part came. I had to stuff a roll bar in there somewhere. It had to clear the rack and pinion, and be able to clear all the parts, tie rods, control arms, frame and tires at full droop and bump, because of the air ride and the extended travel.

ERRR!!!! I was at a loss. I laid on my back for hours, working various configurations out. When I thought I saw a good mounting it would hit somewhere. Maybe not at ride height, but when the suspension was bottomed out. Or if I got it so it wouldnt hit bottomed out it would hit something while bottomed out and at full turn. It was always something. It got to the point where I wasnt gonna be able to put a bar in there. There just wasnt any room. Really, it was tight EVERYWHERE!!!! That wasnt gonna work. It needed to go in.

So I sat on my back some more. My wife thinks Im sleeping under there. I tell her Im visualizing but she still thinks Im sleeping. Hahaha Been that way for the whole car build, years. Sometimes I just have to lay down under there and give it some thought. And really, its kinda comfortable. I like looking at the underside just thinking.

So one day it clicked!!! I saw a path, and thought WTF!!! It was there the entire time.

So I made all my measurements and went to the speedway site where I was gonna get my bar from to begin with. My rear bar is from them. I got the spring rate I "think" is in the ball park. Its a guess at this point. There is no one that can give you roll bars rates for cars, these cars anyway. Or any, thay speak of bar diameters, but dont even talk about rates. What gives. Guess when you by a round bar they just talk about size not spring rate. What a shame, thay are spings, Ill toss out my spring rates on the build post I will have. But it wont help anyone cause bar dealers dont give the rates. The one piece bar dealers anyway. One bar fits all I guess is their idea. Speedway can get you any rate in any size you need. From 100lbs to 3400lbs. If you see a one piece bar published with spring rates lemme know. I havent found one. They all wanna talk about bar sizes. LOL Bar size?? Thats like when you go into a car dealer and are haggling the price of the car you want and they ask you what monthly payment do you want. WHAT!!! Its not about monthly payments, its about a hard number, cash in that case. Spring rates in a roll bars case, not bar diameter.

Anyway I strayed :) So I bought the bar, arms, pillow blocks, rod ends from another company and mocked it all up. I bent the arms under heat and a template, they came out perfect. Stuffed it all under there and wow, Im tight. The tires clear the arms at full turn by a 1/4". The arms clear the frame by a 1/4". The links (two rod ends, one female, one male) clear the tie rods by 3/16" at full turning and suspension travel. The arms clear the tie rods by a 1/4". The pillow blocks are as far forward as they can go, too much really, had to make some special plates. All the while the arms are level with the frame and the links are vertical at ride height.

So as of today I pulled it ALL out and setting it up to paint it in my ghetto cardboard box paint booth. Hope I remember how it all goes back together.

Soooooo, to answer your Q. Nope nuthing going on here. LOL How bout your ride????

I will wrap this up and post some pics like I did for the rear end for anyone curious.

Then its off to tie all the air lines together at the trunk and wire up the air ride system. Nuther drama session there Im sure.


Thanks for asking. Bet yer wishing you hadnt now huh LOL Pics to follow, some day.. JR