AWD Project Vette - Doing some Dreaming....

[69MyWay]

Okay...I'm planning ahead for my next project.

I read a forum story a few years ago about a guy in Poland I think that fused an Olds Bravad with a 78 or so Vette including a forced induction LT1...and made a pavement eating race car for the poor quality race strips in his area.

Okay....So, I have done the 3rd gen Vette...had recently done an LS2 powered 1985 Vette...not excited about a 5th or 6th gen...and find a first gen impractical for actual use (permanent convertible...etc).

So...I'm thinking about getting a basket case or kit car body mid-year - 63-67 and figuring out how to fuse the front half of an AWD Bravada, Jimmy, or Blazer in there with LS power...etc.

This Summer I'll be going to a couple of large mid-west Vette shows where I can look for a body/basket case project Vette - that needs me more than I need it.

Ideas? Comments? Suggestions?????

[71RS/SS396]

You might also consider using a Silverado SS or Trailblazer SS for a doner since they are already AWD and are LS based drivetrain. The Silverado comes with a 4L80E trans and Trailblazer has the 4L65. Sounds like a fun project! I have a Silverado SS with a Magna Charger and it hauls a$$ and it's fun to suprise the late model Mustangs with.

[69MyWay]

You make a great point. I was firguing that the width of those as well as the weight/girth of the full size frame (or Trailblazer) would be too heavy and wide to use. However, it doesn't mean I couldn't yank the guts...and figure out how to suspend them in the other frame.

Seems the issue is the front springs. The old S10 based stuff uses a torsion bar that comes up from the transmission cross member as the drive axles go right through where the coil springs would go. I would suspect this is one of the more tricky aspects of it.

I saw video of the dude in Poland that did it - and it looked really clean. The 3rd and 2nd gen Vette share many components suspension and frame related.

[71RS/SS396]

You make a great point. I was firguing that the width of those as well as the weight/girth of the full size frame (or Trailblazer) would be too heavy and wide to use. However, it doesn't mean I couldn't yank the guts...and figure out how to suspend them in the other frame.

Seems the issue is the front springs. The old S10 based stuff uses a torsion bar that comes up from the transmission cross member as the drive axles go right through where the coil springs would go. I would suspect this is one of the more tricky aspects of it.

I saw video of the dude in Poland that did it - and it looked really clean. The 3rd and 2nd gen Vette share many components suspension and frame related.

It might be pricey,but what about having someone make a steering knuckle that you could mount a coilover on top of or on the side of ?

[groovyjay]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/1328156-stingray-awd.html :thumbsup:

Just do it Chris!

[69MyWay]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/1328156-stingray-awd.html :thumbsup:

Just do it Chris!

That's it! That is the guy...and the first time I saw this concept.

I wonder how much floor space is taken up by the front drive axle and box.

[Payton King]

The same upright used on a C5/C6 for the front is used for the rear. You will be able to use the drive bearing set front and rear.

The Holden that the GTO is based off of in Au has another derivative called the Comadore I think. It is a El Camino looking thing that is 4 wheel drive and is the same size as the GTO. They run an LS motor. There is your source for the front drive/transaxle.

[GMracer]

You might also consider using a Silverado SS or Trailblazer SS for a doner since they are already AWD and are LS based drivetrain. The Silverado comes with a 4L80E trans and Trailblazer has the 4L65. Sounds like a fun project! I have a Silverado SS with a Magna Charger and it hauls a$$ and it's fun to suprise the late model Mustangs with.


Just FYI Silverado SS comes with a 65e and the TBSS comes with a 70e, the 80e was only in the 2500 trucks.

[Bowtieracing]

Hello Chris,

Do you remember one of Troys early masterpieces - The Quadraduce ! It had GMC Cyclone drivetrain with 6 speed trans and aluminium smallblock. It allso had C4 vette rear . Road&track tested it for handling and performance with great results. Sorry to say but Stielow took the fun out by changing automatic transmission for summit ..:mad:

Anyway do some search of it. Had lots of good ideas!

[Ketzer]

Hello Chris,

Do you remember one of Troys early masterpieces - The Quadraduce ! It had GMC Cyclone drivetrain with 6 speed trans and aluminium smallblock. It allso had C4 vette rear . Road&track tested it for handling and performance with great results. Sorry to say but Stielow took the fun out by changing automatic transmission for summit ..:mad:

Anyway do some search of it. Had lots of good ideas!

Maybe I remember that wrong, I thought Troy did the re-do and put in the auto? Still, one of my all time favs. Would still like to see it in person.

[syborg tt]

Okay so here is a link to a bunch of pics of the build of the vette

http://garagescene.net/gallery2/v/Manufactures/General+Motors/GMAWDVette/

You are Correct Steilow built the Car and the Rad Rides did the re-do.

Start by getting a 92 or 93 Typhoon Transfer case as they are stronger then the 91 syclone case.

Mike Lee at Raceproven Motors make the 4l80e adapter for the t-case to the tranny. Mark Bowler is very familiar with the conversion/hardware swap.

You can buy and 1st gen 4wd frame for the front clip if you plan to craft it to the stock vette frame.

Once again call up Mike Lee for the coil over coversion and you can ditch the torsion bars. Mike also sell an upgraded front sway bar for the front.

The stock T-case has held up to 1000hp and seen very few failures.

I think Rodger is toying with the idea of building a awd car as we speak.

FYI - also available from Mike Lee is the oil pan conversion for an LS style motor.

btw - your talking my talk now ( just think Syclone )

[4OfaKind]

Chris,

You can also use an '92 Escalade Tranfer case w/ a 4l80e. Lingenfelter did it w/ his "Stelath S15" TT LS1 AWD Sonoma (only he initially used a 4l60e before switching to a TH400). I am doing it with my '56 4Dr. I am also using a '92 S10 4x4 front diff.

The hard part would be if you want to change the steering to R&P. That is the delay w/ my project.

Mal

[Bowtieracing]

Maybe I remember that wrong, I thought Troy did the re-do and put in the auto? Still, one of my all time favs. Would still like to see it in person.


Omg ..then i take my words back on Mark and blaim Troy for taking the spirit out of it :lol:

Any still one of my alltime favorites. With or without stick:cool:

[syborg tt]

Chris,

You can also use an '92 Escalade Tranfer case w/ a 4l80e. Lingenfelter did it w/ his "Stelath S15" TT LS1 AWD Sonoma (only he initially used a 4l60e before switching to a TH400). I am doing it with my '56 4Dr. I am also using a '92 S10 4x4 front diff.

The hard part would be if you want to change the steering to R&P. That is the delay w/ my project.

Mal


fairly certain I sold Lingefleter a Typhoon Transfer case for the Red Sonoma your talking about.

You need to jump on SyTy.net at least two guys' have converted the s10 front diff to rack & pinion.

[Ketzer]

Seems like Scy/Ty stuff would be rare and expensive.
TB SS's seem more common? Already setup to run LSx?
There were also Astro AWDs.

Are you guys saying that a 4x4 S10 front drivetrain/frame is the same as AWD? I know that sounds stoopid but most AWD are permanent, 4x4 are lever or pushbutton. Also the ride height is different for the two trucks?

What about the front diffs? How much can they take? Any tricks to beefing them up? Are they posi/locker?

I'm liking where this thread is going.:thumbsup:

Marty, yours isn't AWD anymore, right?


Jeff-

[4OfaKind]

fairly certain I sold Lingefleter a Typhoon Transfer case for the Red Sonoma your talking about.

You need to jump on SyTy.net at least two guys' have converted the s10 front diff to rack & pinion.

Marty, did not know you were involved w/ that build. Just going by the info I read in the many articles about the truck and the phone calls I made to LPE while researching my project.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/83863_chevrolet_stealth_s15_drag_racer/index.html

Have been to SY/TY many time as well, have not seen a finished R&P install. You got any pics or of the Astro steering set-up? Would help tremendously.

Seems like Scy/Ty stuff would be rare and expensive.
TB SS's seem more common? Already setup to run LSx?
There were also Astro AWDs.

Are you guys saying that a 4x4 S10 front drivetrain/frame is the same as AWD? I know that sounds stoopid but most AWD are permanent, 4x4 are lever or pushbutton. Also the ride height is different for the two trucks?

What about the front diffs? How much can they take? Any tricks to beefing them up? Are they posi/locker?

I'm liking where this thread is going.

Jeff-

S-10 4x4 front diffs and SY/TY front diffs are the same (thank you GM bean counters :thumbsup: ) just different gear ratios. The push button or lever you refer to is for 4x4 Transfer case engagament. SY/TY, Escalade, and TB SS are full time AWD and need no such mechanisms in their Transfer cases.

[syborg tt]

Seems like Scy/Ty stuff would be rare and expensive. TB SS's seem more common? Already setup to run LSx?
There were also Astro AWDs.

Nope all you need is the transfer case $300.00 plus shipping

Are you guys saying that a 4x4 S10 front drivetrain/frame is the same as AWD? I know that sounds stoopid but most AWD are permanent, 4x4 are lever or pushbutton. Also the ride height is different for the two trucks?

Front Axle is the front axle - You can get a auto locking front diff but it's weaker.

What about the front diffs? How much can they take? Any tricks to beefing them up? Are they posi/locker?

Don't put a locker up front - tends to make the front end very squirelly

I'm liking where this thread is going.:thumbsup:

me 2

Marty, yours isn't AWD anymore, right?


Nope mine is only rear wheel drive.

The benifit of the syty case is it is much smaller and it will actually fit under the floor of your project. The Trail-Blazer and the Tahoe case are much larger - did i say much larger

[syborg tt]

Nope - just sold them the transfer case. I've been selling syty parts since the early 90's

here is a link to the Ling Sonoma just for you

Pics you may never seen.

http://www.garagescene.net/gallery2/v/Builders/Lingenfelter/LingStealthS15/

you can also get a true locking from dif from and old 4 x 4 where you can disengage at the axle shaft. But good luck finding one of those.

and yep i will look for the rack & pinion thread.

Marty, did not know you were involved w/ that build. Just going by the info I read in the many articles about the truck and the phone calls I made to LPE while researching my project.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/83863_chevrolet_stealth_s15_drag_racer/index.html

Have been to SY/TY many time as well, have not seen a finished R&P install. You got any pics or of the Astro steering set-up? Would help tremendously.



S-10 4x4 front diffs and SY/TY front diffs are the same (thank you GM bean counters :thumbsup: ) just different gear ratios. The push button or lever you refer to is for 4x4 Transfer case engagament. SY/TY, Escalade, and TB SS are full time AWD and need no such mechanisms in their Transfer cases.

[4OfaKind]

Nope - just sold them the transfer case. I've been selling syty parts since the early 90's

here is a link to the Ling Sonoma just for you

Pics you may never seen.

http://www.garagescene.net/gallery2/v/Builders/Lingenfelter/LingStealthS15/

and yep i will look for the rack & pinion thread.

:thumbsup: Thanks alot.

I did not have some of those pics. I did see that some jerk wrecked an awesome vehicle. v

Mal

[syborg tt]

:thumbsup: Thanks alot.

I did not have some of those pics. I did see that some jerk wrecked an awesome vehicle. v

Mal


Your welcome and I'm not sure if I would call him a jerk. I would just say he had bad luck at the strip and crashed.

Just think how bad he must feel.

[4OfaKind]

You're right. A little too much emotion on my part. :rolleyes:

Chris,
It will be awesome to see what you come up with for your vette. :lateral:

Mal

[nvr2fst]

Dont know if youve seen this one. Awhile back ago I was thinking of doing this and I came across this project.
http://www.projectawdcamaro.com/

[4OfaKind]

Dont know if youve seen this one. Awhile back ago I was thinking of doing this and I came across this project.
http://www.projectawdcamaro.com/

Sweet concept. :thumbsup: What's even better is the front axle/differential through the oil pan frees alot of room for the steering shaft and headers as opposed to the older sy/ty set-up. It appears to allow for a lower center of gravity as well. Gotta love technology.

What else is interesting is that Air Ride Tech has not mentioned this ride being built before now.

Mal

[ironworks]

I have done a lot of bench racing with Neil Lea of Rods and Restos about this same idea. And split window vette or Impala would be bitchin platforms. A camaro would be really hard unless you slide the engine way back.

[nvr2fst]

I have done a lot of bench racing with Neil Lea of Rods and Restos about this same idea. And split window vette or Impala would be bitchin platforms. A camaro would be really hard unless you slide the engine way back.

Rodger, You do too much bench racing. Go grab a wrench and put your ideas to work!

[WILWAXU]

That Vette is pretty cool!

The Lingenfelter S-15 was an awesome little truck!

[69MyWay]

Okay guys...this idea is getting more interesting by the day. Any of you that know me personally know that I do all I can to stretch every penny out of anything I dive into - which doesn't always mean I jump into the most expensive and often sends me on a round trip looking through scrap parts and conversion pieces to make something happen....

With that said, I have been searching worthy donor mid-year Vettes to make this happen. I'm so far coming up with a bunch of high priced crap that needs to be totally rebuilt with owners that think they are plated in gold.

Then, I came across this:

Go to Ebay and type in: 330320938383

http://i22.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/08/66/d33b_1.JPG

http://i18.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/08/66/ca55_1.JPG

http://i3.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/08/66/bd8c_1.JPG

This is a complete body (shell) that was popped off a true 63 Vette - so it is correct in size and shape to a stock car. The doors include inner nad outer skins but there is no inner structure (metal in the a/b pillars) or firewall or floor.

The one listed is a three layer, but for $2K more he will add two more layers in a new build that is much thicker.

Now...the thought process sails deep into the unknown here - but the possibilities are CRAZY....

I'm thinking even to the extent of an entire S10 style frame modified to slip under this - then of course going to the pain of making everything else.

Virtually a full on race car - that is streetable (would have the vin and title of whatever frame goes under it) -with the AWD...and no confines to the stock body.

I know this is MUCH more work in most cases than putting together an old junk stocker...but when you realize I would be using very little of a stock car anyway...this just starts to make sense.

He also said he would give me a killer deal on a body delivered to my door.


Thoughts?????????

[JV69z/28]

I know this is MUCH more work in most cases than putting together an old junk stocker...but when you realize I would be using very little of a stock car anyway...this just starts to make sense.

Thoughts?????????

You're right it does start to make sense but all you will have for 4K plus delivery is a body and nothing else. No structure - not one mechanical part - no trim parts - no nothing. If you buy an old junk stocker at least you are somewhat starting with what once was a car. You can sell off what you are not going to use. Original C2 parts even in this economy bring money in the on line auctions. What you want to do can be done and if anyone can do it you can. I just think you will tear your hair out and waste lots of time that you could spend building this car looking for parts that because they are for a C2 you will pay dearly for. You just may be further ahead paying up front. Alot depends on how "stock" you want the car to look. I'm sure you know from when you did your '69 how fast the money goes. Bumpers? Retractable headlights? Window moldings? Interior trim? On and on............That's just my 2 cents - others will differ I'm sure. Good luck with your project. :cheers: