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View Full Version : has anyone ever done a turbo/twin-tubro A/C Cobra?


JNS
03-28-2009, 09:30 AM
There is a wicked supercharged one running around my parts, got me to thinking the other day- anyone ever built a turbo or TT A/C Cobra? If you were going to build one- what powerplant would you start with?

deuce_454
03-28-2009, 09:47 AM
somthing light.... ls based engine or a full alloy sbc or sbf (ill get flamed for the last one for sure)

id personally get a used sprint engine on racingjunk and lower compression and change cam... those things are 750+ NA

JNS
03-28-2009, 09:48 AM
somthing light.... ls based engine or a full alloy sbc or sbf (ill get flamed for the last one for sure)

id personally get a used sprint engine on racingjunk and lower compression and change cam... those things are 750+ NA

what are typical specs on a sprint engine?

one like this?
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1141/Sprint_Cars/post/1477451/360-ascs-sprint-car-engine.html

or this=--

http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1141/Sprint_Cars/post/1455428/410-Aluminum-Sprint-Car-Engine-with-12-heads.html

410 ci (750hp)

http://static.racingjunk.com/63/ui/1/34/7918556242699-410-Aluminum-Sprint-Car-Engine-with-12.jpg

deuce_454
03-28-2009, 12:29 PM
the last one si a good example of my kind of "dream engine" i would propably sell the stack injection and install a singleplave and carb, or get one without the big buck induction...

but an engine like that in a 2400 lbs cobra would make for one scary ride...

but in reality all you really need is an ls3 with carb and you have a car that is beyond most drivers to use to its full potential

JNS
03-28-2009, 01:46 PM
the last one si a good example of my kind of "dream engine" i would propably sell the stack injection and install a singleplave and carb, or get one without the big buck induction...

but an engine like that in a 2400 lbs cobra would make for one scary ride...

but in reality all you really need is an ls3 with carb and you have a car that is beyond most drivers to use to its full potential


thanks for the input.

JNS
03-28-2009, 01:47 PM
btw, for a noob like myself, what are -12 heads?

camcojb
03-28-2009, 01:54 PM
btw, for a noob like myself, what are -12 heads?

http://www.brodix.com/heads/-12.html

very popular race type head. Require specific pistons and valve train in most cases.

Jody

JNS
03-28-2009, 01:55 PM
http://www.brodix.com/heads/-12.html

very popular race type head. Require specific pistons and valve train in most cases.

Jody


thanks. what would the benefits be of running this style of head over another? (in a street/pro-touring application- not sprint racing)

thedugan
03-28-2009, 03:37 PM
Didn't Bill Cosby have a AC Cobra with twin superchargers

customcam
03-28-2009, 04:27 PM
www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/news.html#News_CB1DebutScroll down to half page

Teamwild
03-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I think the guy that ended up with Cosby's car ended up dying in it...

Here's Cosby's story: http://www.rhapsody.com/bill-cosby/200-mph Click on 200-mph and start listening around 5:30 or so.

buds87gn
03-28-2009, 05:35 PM
www.anderson-performance.com the guy knows his S***, anything from mild to wild...

JNS
03-28-2009, 06:31 PM
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> High Speed Attack - Top Oil Ack Attack Team Goes For Land Speed Record Mar 8, 2006

> Bell Intercooler Equipped CB/1 Debuts in Hot Rod Magazine Feb 27, 2006

> Bell Intercoolers Announces the Technical Support Group Jul 23, 2005

> CB/1 Initial Dyno Testing Successful With 600+ Horsepower Jun 5, 2005




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> High Speed Attack - Top Oil Ack Attack Team Goes For Land Speed Record

February 27, 2006

NOTE: For the latest news and photos on Team Top Oil’s record attempts checkout the daily, often hourly, updates from Jon Amo at Landracing.com.

Lake Gairdner, Australia - A team of veterans from the American motorcycle racing community will try for a new world land-speed record on Australia’s Lake Gairdner salt flats. Those familiar with the pursuit of land speed records will know Lake Gairdner as the down-under version of the famous Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah. Sponsored by Burlingame, California-based Top Oil Products Company and led by noted motorcycle designer Mike Akatiff, the Top-1 “Ack-Attack” team’s record run will be witnessed by officials from the Federation Internationale de Motorcyclisme (FIM), the international sanctioning organization that certifies motorcycle world land-speed records. The Top-1 team has already set an unofficial motorcycle land-speed record of 328.3 miles per hour on October 16, 2004 at Bonneville, which was certified by Bonneville Nationals, Inc. and the Southern California Timing Association.

While most enthusiasts associate land-speed records runs with Bonneville’s annual Speed Week, world records can be set anywhere that conditions permit. Similar to the Bonneville Salt Flats, Lake Gairdner is an ancient lake bed with an ultra-smooth salt-covered surface that’s ideal for high-speed runs. While Lake Gairdner boasts deeper, smoother salt deposits than the revered Bonneville course, it involves a two-day drive through the desolate outback from the city of Adelaide, Australia to reach the 100-mile-long lake bed. Because of Lake Gairdner’s remote location, the team must bring along a large supply of spare parts and special equipment. A 15-mile straight-line course has been set up on the lake bed – seven miles to build up speed, one mile to officially record the streamliner’s speed, and another seven miles to slow down.

The Top Oil team will be the making speed attempts in conjunction with Australia Speed Week from March 6 – 10, 2006 using a custom-built, twin engine, 900-horsepower streamliner motorcycle. With a combined displacement of about 2.6 liters, the twin four-cylinder 1300-cc engines make use of a single exhaust-driven turbocharger and a single Bell Intercoolers Liquid/Air (Liquid to Air) intercooler. Water from a separate 30-gallon tank in the nose of the streamliner is circulated through the liquid-cooled engines, this actually reduces air drag by eliminating the need for an air intake for the radiator. The nose-mounted water tank also contributes to the streamliner’s high-speed stability, not unlike a lead-weighted dart.

Team Top Oil utilizes a fully enclosed design for the Liquid/Air intercooler, which requires no drag-inducing, speed-robbing, air intakes. Instead of air for cooling the intake air charge, the Liquid/Air intercooler relies the circulation of 15-gallons of ice water stored in a coolant reservoir under the driver’s cockpit.

Conventional motorcycle controls include a throttle on the right handle grip and a left-side clutch lever, which are coupled to both engines, while a left-foot shifter operates both transmissions simultaneously. The drive chains from each engine-transmission unit are connected to a common intermediate shaft, and a larger single chain drives the rear wheel. An “under-drive” unit on the intermediate shaft allows overall gear ratios to be changed quickly and easily.

The Top-1 Ack Attack streamliner rides on ultra-high-speed Mickey Thompson automotive tires – seven inches wide in front and nine inches at the rear. The tires are mounted on special two-piece wheels fabricated from 7075 aircraft-quality aluminum, 16 x 7 inches up front and 18 x 9 inches in back.

Headquartered in Burlingame, California, Top Oil Products is a highly successful U.S. exporter of quality lubricants. An independent, privately held company, Top Oil has three manufacturing locations in the Los Angeles area and eight overseas offices covering the Pacific Rim and Latin America. Top Oil offers a full line of Top-1 branded automotive and industrial lubricants that include synthetic motor oils, gear oils, industrial oils, fuel and oil treatments, greases, coolant and brake fluid. Mike Akatiff said, “We’re using Top-1 synthetic oil in our streamliner, and we want to make Top-1 the fastest oil in the world. Top Oil is based just a few miles from us, and they have been a great supporter of the Ack-Attack team, including arranging and paying for all of our shipping and travel to Australia.”

Our special thanks to Top Oil (www.topoil.com) and Jon Amos of Landracing.com (www.landracing.com) for the latest information on the Team Top Oil effort.
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> Bell Intercooler Eqipped CB/1 Debuts in Hot Rod Magazine

February 27, 2006

Spring Branch, TX - Spring Branch, TX - The twin turbocharged, 650 horsepower CB/1 made its public debut in February with the release of a feature article in the April issue of Hot Rod magazine. This press coverage is joined by the launch of the new CB/1 website at cb1project.com.

The CB/1 represents the engineered blending of modern automotive and racing technology with one of the all time high performance legends, the venerable 427 Cobra. The ultimate performance version of this classic powered by a twin turbocharged, 385 cubic inch V8, delivering a track tearing 650 horsepower and 640 lb-ft of torque. Meld this brutal power with a race designed chassis and a Ron Nash designed suspension for precise control, then add an ergonomically corrected cockpit and you have the most potent, most useable, most enjoyable evolution of the 427 Cobra.

Keeping turbo outlet air temperatures at optimal levels is a large, twin-inlet/twin-outlet Air/Air (air to air) intercooler designed and manufactured by Bell Intercoolers specifically for the CB/1 project. An engine with the performance capabilities of the CB/1 requires a substantial intercooler and the classic Cobra body provides little room for installation. Bell Intercoolers worked closely with the designers and engineers at RSC (Renaissance Sports Cars) to fit the proper size intercooler into a less than generous CB1 nose section.

The CB/1 is based on a newly designed platform, engineered by Corky Bell specifically for the performance and usability requirements of this vehicle. No cut corners, no secondhand components, no compromises. This vehicle is developed from a clean sheet of paper to yield unparalleled performance. Modern control, power and driveability all tucked under one of the most beautifully forceful shapes in automotive design.

For additional information about the CB/1 production models and sales please visit cb1project.com or contact Corky Bell at 830-438-2890 (email: [email protected]).

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Images/N_CB1HotRod_A_Lg.jpg

JNS
03-28-2009, 06:33 PM
just tried to check out their website and it is down.

fleetus macmullitz
03-28-2009, 10:44 PM
just tried to check out their website and it is down.

www.cb1project.com

No one even owns that domain anymore.

JNS
03-29-2009, 05:08 AM
www.cb1project.com

No one even owns that domain anymore.

wow, must not have panned out- bummer.

JNS
03-29-2009, 05:10 AM
found this writeup on the car, looks sweet.

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/113_0604_cb1_cobra/index.html

JNS
03-29-2009, 05:12 AM
http://img2.image.hotrod.com/f/9366026/113_0604_06_z+the_mongoose+side.jpg

http://img3.image.hotrod.com/f/9365996/113_0604_01_z+the_mongoose+frame_and_engine.jpg

http://img4.image.hotrod.com/f/9366038/113_0604_08_z+the_mongoose+transaxle.jpg

found this old article on it---

His original idea was to sell turnkey Cobra kit cars, but then Corky Bell thought, Why work with someone else's kit when you can build your own? And why not build the best Cobra in the world? Rather than stuffing a big V-8 into a cute-but-archaic '50s sports car like Shelby did, Bell set out to scratch-build a serious high-tech, high-powered, rear-transaxle sports car with even more power than the big-block, all stuffed under a composite 427 Cobra body. If Shelby's car is a Cobra, then Bell's should be called the Mongoose.

Bell's engineering career began in the early '70s at Bell Helicopter (no relation). His side business, Japanese GT Cars, funded his SCCA road-racing habit, and he went on to build turbo kits and intercoolers for sports cars, ponycars, and sport compacts under the Cartech brand name. By the early '90s, the annual revenue of his Bell Experimental Group Inc. (BEGi) topped $1 million.

Companies like Kirkum Brothers already make highly accurate Cobra replicas, and ERA and Superformance produce Cobra-like cars with nicer interiors, stiffer frames, and improved suspensions for about $75-90K. Factory Five has the best working-man's package based on 5.0 Mustang components. However, none packaged the entirely new sports car Bell wanted underneath the classic Cobra body. Furthermore, it didn't take too many sightings of NBA players in full-bling Escalades to make Bell think there might be a market for a sports car that tall guys could actually fit in. To make it all work with a stock 427 Cobra body and wheelbase would require a transaxle at the rear and an asymmetrical layout.

Over the years Bell made a lot of friends, and when he got serious about car building, he brought them into the Mongoose Project. Included in the group was enthusiast-investor Charles Nearburg, a Texas oil man, car collector, and former IndyCar racer who had the critical financial resources to fund the development of the prototype CB1. Also involved was Ron Nash, a buddy with a degree in physics who, before he dropped out of the car scene to became a full-time veterinarian in the '90s, designed front-engine, rear-drive, competition road-race suspensions for Newman and Sharps' Nissans, Jack Roush's first season Merkurs, and Buick's late-'80s Trans-Am racers. Nash came back to design the suspension for Bell's Mongoose. Other top-notch pros involved include Peter Schwartz (stress analysis), Todd Gartshore (marketing savvy), Bob Salzman (aesthetics), Trey Hermann (designer and stylist), and Ford drag racer Chip Havemann (attorney).

The birthing site for the CB1 Super Cobra was a private airport 30 miles northwest of San Antonio, Texas. In the winter of 2002, Bell and his team constructed a precision alloy platform on rollers, which they used to construct the prototype frame. "We had to bring together the tires, engine, transaxle, and seat then play with the layout," says Bell. "Getting all those parts in the position you want dictates where the suspension will be and where it will pivot, which, in part, dictates where the frame has to go. With those dimensions worked out, I went on paper to draw the frame."

Note that he did not use CAD software to design the prototype. According to Bell, "When you're trying to optimize space, you've got to make judgments, like how close you can get the frame to the engine and still get it out. To compile space for the driver, we were scraping for an eighth of an inch at a time. If we could do that eight times, we had an inch. I don't think you can do it with a computer."

The Mongoose came to life over the next nine months, designed around a space frame of 2-inch-square tubing. The design allowed seats to rest directly on the floor of the car rather than atop the frame like a Shelby, which provided extra inches of height for big drivers.

The engine is an early 351 Windsor that could be punched out to nearly 427 ci, a nice selling point (though it displaces 385 cubes in the prototype). Trey Hermann sketched out a turbo-EFI upper intake manifold for the 351 to fit under the Cobra bodywork, and Bell made the casting. The rear transaxle solved a lot of problems-it's a Porsche G50/50 in the prototype, running upside down and backward. You can't have a central space frame and a conventional transmission without greatly intruding on the driver and passenger. The G50/50 opened up space, though Bell used some of it for a stiffer frame and the torque tube. The remote shifter solved certain ergonomic issues related to the rearward location of the engine. Using the transaxle, Bell's team managed to put 57 percent of the weight at the rear of the car.

The Bell team labored to perfect everything, from the rigid engine-to-rear-transaxle torque-tube design to the door hinges, which were unexpectedly difficult to refine. They created molds and cast 11 special parts for the Mongoose. High points included jacking up the car and feeling the remote shifter snick into all six gears on the first attempt, and the moment Bell turned the key and the Mongoose started up and just drove away with zero problems. Strapped to the Dynojet chassis dynamometer, the twin-turbo 351 ripped off a 505 rear-wheel horsepower run at just 7.5 psi boost.

Eventually, the entire Mongoose team assembled at the Motorsport Ranch test track south of Fort Worth, Texas, to kick the tires and light the fires, and there came the sublime moment when Charles Nearburg drove into the pits from the maiden flog, stepped out of the car, and pronounced it a "marvelous machine that drives a gnat's ass from perfect." The only consequential change would be to modify the front frame to lower the ride height.

"I think everything with the exception of the torque tube can be a production design," says Bell. "But everything will change a little bit. We're going to use the same basic suspension-upright casting patterns to build the production pieces, but we may fatten up a little bit here, lighten up a little bit there, or make the steering arms slightly longer or shorter, but they'll be the same basic pattern."

The planned production of 12 to 15 cars a year will require new capital from here on. "We'll need tool-up assistance and money," says Bell. "We have a frame designed for the first prototype, and it will closely approximate the next one. We have suspension members, and we'll start doing a stress analysis on those. By the time the next car is done, we should also have a stiffness analysis."

How much? Well, if you have to ask. . . . Remember, Bell is catering to the Shaquille O'Neals and Derek Jeters of the world, so expect a price tag around $150,000. No problem? Then put yourself on the list by contacting BEGi/Renaissance Sports Cars, 830/438-2890, www.bellengineering.net.

Quick Inspection: '05 Bell Cb1 Super Cobra
Corky Bell • Spring Branch, Tx

Powertrain Engine: The '73 385ci Ford Windsor engine is equipped with Canfield aluminum cylinder heads, JE 8.5:1 forged pistons, an Eagle steel crankshaft and rods, and a BEGi EFI turbo upper intake manifold. It was assembled and machined by BEGi. Forced-induction power enhancement comes from a TIG-welded stainless steel hot-side turbo system using Garrett T4 turbos and Tial wastegates providing 0.5-1.0 BAR boost on 93-octane pump gas using Electromotive TEC III engine management. The camshaft and gear are by Crower. The radiator is a Ron Davis custom piece. The CB1's twin side pipes use 3-inch mandrel-bent Burns Stainless tubing and mufflers. The fuel system uses twin Pierburg fuel pumps, a TWM regulator, and 52 lb/hr fuel injectors. Ignition comes from four Electromotive wastespark direct-fire coil packs.

Power: It makes 505 hp and 540 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels at 7.5 psi of boost measured on Henderson Performance Technologies' (New Braunfels, Texas) Dynojet chassis dynamometer.

Transmission/Transaxle: It's a modified Porsche G50/50 five-speed transaxle with a Porsche limited-slip differential and 2.5:1 final drive ratio and a remote BEGi shifter and ball-bearing U-joint-based shift linkage. The engine has a single-disc Centerforce clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel and is connected to the transaxle with a custom torque-tube and driveshaft.

Chassis
Frame: Monocoque-reinforced 1018/1020 alloy TIG-welded steel central backbone space frame.

Suspension: Front independent struts are located by double wishbones, with Aldan coilovers and antiroll bar. Rear independents are located by double wishbones with toe-control links and Aldan coilovers.

Brakes: Baer four-piston calipers with 13.0x1.25-inch vented front discs and 13.0x1.125-inch vented rear discs.

Wheels: The fronts are 17x9.5 and the rears are 17x11, all from Team Three.

Tires: BFG G-Force TAs, with 245/40ZRs up front and 275/40ZRs at the rear.

Style
Body: Composite 427 Cobra from Antiques and Collectibles.

Paint: The CB1 was sprayed Bright Yellow basecoat/clearcoat in acrylic urethane by Darrell Connell at Trevcon in San Antonio, Texas.

Interior: BEGi created the custom bucket seats. A complete Simpson five-point racing harness and Auto Meter Sport-Comp gauges (for speedo, tach, fuel level, coolant temperature, volts, boost, oil pressure, oil temperature, transmission temperature, and clock) make the interior comfortable but serious.

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl...bra/index.html

JNS
03-29-2009, 05:16 AM
now THAT is a build id like to replicate.:cool:

RACERAL
03-29-2009, 06:04 PM
You can find a ton of info here...I have a FFR Roadster..we can't call them Cobras.. Shelby gets his depends in a wad
http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17
I did a search and you can find some reading here
http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/search.php?searchid=734124

JNS
03-29-2009, 07:28 PM
thanks

do you like your FFR?

sacarguy
03-30-2009, 11:24 AM
ive done a couple factory fives with turbo small block fords.. 750 rear wheel horsepower is cake with those

JNS
03-30-2009, 11:28 AM
ive done a couple factory fives with turbo small block fords.. 750 rear wheel horsepower is cake with those

pretty wicked little cobras? What were the specs on the motor/turbo build?

RACERAL
03-30-2009, 05:03 PM
Yes JNS, I love it.... It was the first car I have ever built and it was a perfect fit for me.. People give kit cars hell but thats a stupid assumption. Buy it all at one place or go all over hell and half the country buying parts.. it just didn't add up to me.
I was like building a real model car. I had help with the wiring and paint.
I love what the guys do here but all here is SO way over my head.
These things run like stink
I have a stock 302 and made 3 runs with it the other day on t/a Radials
Run 1
rt.782 (I didn't know it was a pro tree)
60ft.1.833
330ft 5.478
1/8 8.522
mph 83.02

Run 2
rt.559
60 ft.1.940
330ft 5.600
1/8 8.579
mph 84.41

Run 3
rt.574
60 ft. 1.900
330 ft. 5.510
1/8 8.482
mph 84.47
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/raceral/ALs%20Cobra/MyCobra004-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/raceral/ALs%20Cobra/Picture244.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/raceral/ALs%20Cobra/Picture245.jpg

And just for fun.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/raceral/ALs%20Cobra/MyCobra019.jpg:lateral: :cheers:

JNS
03-30-2009, 05:46 PM
wow-awesome.

what does that equate to in the quarter mile?

TravisB
03-30-2009, 07:00 PM
I have a 9.1 18 degree headed 358ci SBC fresh out of a busch east car. Dry sumped and ready to roll. Would be perfect for a turbo build. Makes 790 N/A. Should handle 12-14psi easy and make stupid power:thumbsup:

479-426-3462

RACERAL
03-31-2009, 05:23 PM
I'm thinking about a 13.1, which ain't to bad for only about 250hp. But , the car only weighs 2176 lbs. with half tank gas.
the 500 hp Cobras are like riding a 2 stroke dirt bike.. just bliping the throttle lights the hides up REAL easy.. kinda spooky... the 90" wheelbase will kick your ass in the ditch in a heartbeat.