My 69 Camaro needs your honest opinions

[scandore]

I took my car to a shop to get the quarters, rear deck filler, tail pan, and trunk pan replaced and to install a Quadra link, mini tubs and subframe connectors. I told him I did not want any corners cut and he said that’s no problem his shop does not cut corners. I was quoted 8k and 1 month to do the work. During the build I questioned some of the things he did and his response was “this is just what happens when you replace panels on a 1st gen Camaro that they are some of the worst fitting cars out there”. 6 months later I Paid $24K, and this is what I got. I am not satisfied. Other shops have said it is sub standard work but I wonder if they are just saying that because they are competitors.

Am I being too picky?

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/IMG_0055.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/121_2152.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/122_2214.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/121_2176.jpg

[scandore]

Here is some more

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/121_2190.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/121_2187.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/121_2155.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/121_2160.jpg

[War]

You need to listen to the other shops. There is plenty of pictures on this web site that shows what the work should look like, or this is a very good joke. It's not April 1st is it?

[scandore]

more
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/IMG_0007.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/IMG_0008.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/IMG_0040.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/sscandore/69%20camaro/1969camaro-057.jpg

[scandore]

I wish it was

[War]

If thats the case you better get hold of BAR to look into this. You could have gone to someone like MCC and bought a whole tub for less money

[bcbuilder]

sorry to see you recieved that work for the price you paid.The quadralink has to be centered off the housing not the pinion since the pinion if offset on the 9 inch. the shame is that alot of "quality" shops will weld patches on like on your car, its just they slap filler on it so you never really get to see what it looks like underneath.You should get second and third opinions from qualified shops and consider legal action.

[buickfunnycar.com]

wow...don't know what to say.:_paranoid

[zcrz]

^^^^I'm with him on this^^^:willy:

[Datsbad]

Man bud , I see why you are not happy.
As a builder I would never dream of putting anything out there like this, if I did I would be out of business for sure.

This is the kind of work out there that people do then bring it to us to be fixed. The problem is the only thing I see fit to do is to "redo" EVERYTHING.

The housing is runied, or at least the brackets, the trunk....holy crap and the quarters, man this guy should never think that building cars is in his future. Holy crap man I just cant believe people can live with thereself after charging someone like that .

The purpose of this forum and others is to inform eveyone out there of places to stay away from as well as the people that help this industry.

With that being said , who is it?
Lets just hope its not a sponsor like Anthonys deal was ....?????
Looks like another "KARMA" Get the paypal donations started !!!!!!!

[Nvrenuf]

Oh Man. Many of us feel for ya. As you already know, the job is not good and will not last long. I hate to say it, but I don't think they've ever welded before. All you can do at this point is chock it up to an expensive education. We have all done it before.

[DOOM]

WOW this is criminal!!!!!!!! $24000.00 :faint: Here we go again!!

[ItDoRun]

:wow: I can't believe what I just saw in those photos. That's horrible! Please let everyone know who it was so the next guy doesn't end up in the same situation.

[DOOM]

:wow: I can't believe what I just saw in those photos. That's horrible! Please let everyone know who it was so the next guy doesn't end up in the same situation.

P L E A S E X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Musclerodz]

I posted over at PT. Get a lawyer. I feel for ya. You got taken. Guy has no clue what he is doing.

[ironworks]

IRONWORKS SPEED AND KUSTOM did the majority of the work on this car.

We were hired to install a quadra link and minitubs, and do the quarters.

There are many parts Tyson is leaving out, like the fact the Work was not completed when done. When I went to go look at the car before we did the work, I told him to take it to a frame shop and have it straightened because the wheel base on passenger side was off by at least a 1/2". He then took it to a frame shop and had it straightened. Then weeks later he brought the car to me supposedly after it was straightened. We then began work on the car by doing the mini tubs and quarter panels. Well we found out that the car was not even square enough to fit the tubs in according to the tub templates. The tubs and everything was pushed forward on the passenger side alot. We had to align the quarter panels with the wheel base only to find that the door jam on the was about a 1/2" forward of the old door jamb and the rear section that would attach or line up with the trunk lid was about 3/8 of an inch long. So we installed the doors and front sheetmetal to see how things fit and to tray and find one sqaure stiaght edge. Everything lied up with the new door jamb not the old. OR you would have to have a 3/4" door gap to align with the the front sheet metal properly. Then you get to the other side and it was completely the opposite. AT this point I realized I was knee deep in crap and married to quite possibly the worst 69 camaro ever. The Good mark quarters had many other issues like body lines that had to be moved and so on and so forth. I could go on and on.

Yeah we worked on this car over 18 months ago and the Project left unfinished so the owner could take it home and try mock up some things to see what else was no right. Since it left my shop the car has been in 3 other shops that I know of, and has been worked on by other people since it left my shop. So who knows what status it is in now.

Tyson also has left out the fact that total price includes many many other parts installed on this car. AND that I deducted over 10,000 bucks on this project just to be somewhat slightly reasonable on a time and materials job.

He also leaves out fact he filed a complaint with the BAR 6 months ago and the never came to a conclusion. If It is that bad, then what happened?

He also leaves out the fact the Guy he hired to primer the car said the work was up to par for unfinished work.

Tyson also leaves out the fact that I have called him 6 months ago and asked him if there was anything I could do to right the situation on the car. He told me he would rather contine on with his BAR complaint. He then went on to tell people all over town that he was going to get ALL his money back and put me out of business after the car had left my shop 13 months before. And just 2 months before he gave me some camaro parts at my shop for some mock up parts.

Well wouldn't you know that now he thinks he can harass me after I offered to work with Him on anything he was not happy with. And file false claims with the BAR.


Tyson why don't you tell everyone how much you paid for the car at night in someones garage after only inspecting the passenger side in 2007, not 1969. As far as Tyson knew at the time it just had minor rust. Floors were solid, and so on. Tell everyone what you found after you striped the interior. You did not tell me this until we cut the quarter panels off the car. When you get a car that looks to be this straight for that cheap you should have known. Shoot even the roof on the car is bent. This car has been in one hell of an accident and when you buy a roller 1969 camaro in California for 2000 bucks you get what you pay for. You are now just trying to take this out on me after you made the decision to press on. I asked you many time before we got to deep do " ARE YOU SURE" another car would be cheaper, Of course I'm married to it at this point.


I have done alot of work that I have posted on this site, We do quality work. Always have Always will. So if you look at the work on this car and know that we have worked on it, you have to know that there are two sides to every story. Apparently this post was started on friday and he got banned from the site and had created 3 screen names to try and try to get at me since.

So what other shops has this car been in after it left my place?

Rodger Lee

[ironworks]

Well here are 2 pics of axle housings, one from Scotts camaro and the other from the DSE website. And the editorial from Scott installing his Quadralink. If I'm wrong I guess I'm in made the same mistakes as the masters.

INSTALLING THE BRACKETS ON THE HOUSING: The first step that I decided to take on was getting the brackets installed on the housing. With the Quadra-Link system, it's recommended that you set the pinion angle at negative 2*. I made a homemade jig by welding a pair of 6" angle iron standoffs to the top of my welding table. Using an angle finder, I set the pinion angle and tack welded it into place. The next step was to find the center of the housing. I measured my housing flange to flange, found the center and marked it on the welding table. From this point I measured out to find the centerline of the upper link/coilover axle mount (14.75") and the centerline of the lower link bracket (19.625"). Since my housing ends were already welded, I had to cut each of those 4 brackets so they could fit over the 3" axle tube. With the housing already set at a -2* pinion, the brackets are set with a level. I tack welded the brackets to the housing (being sure to use the included inside spacers to ensure the links will fit into the brackets after welding). Then I tack welded the cut pieces of the brackets back together. With all four brackets now tacked to the housing, the track bar bracket gets welded to the left lower link bracket. I should note that my tack welds were solid but minimal. I needed it to carry the weight of the car for mock up, yet I needed to be able to remove the brackets in case I ran into an unforeseen issue.

[Barry Badranath]

I took my car to a shop to get the quarters, rear deck filler, tail pan, and trunk pan replaced and to install a Quadra link, mini tubs and subframe connectors. I told him I did not want any corners cut and he said that’s no problem his shop does not cut corners. I was quoted 8k and 1 month to do the work. During the build I questioned some of the things he did and his response was “this is just what happens when you replace panels on a 1st gen Camaro that they are some of the worst fitting cars out there”. 6 months later I Paid $24K, and this is what I got. I am not satisfied. Other shops have said it is sub standard work but I wonder if they are just saying that because they are competitors.

Am I being too picky?

It's sad to see this happen over and over again... I just recently purchased a 67 nova SS of of craigslist that had similar metalwork done to it, the original owner had stripped the car to bare metal after he had what was supposed to be a high end restoration done on the car and it started to bubble. He sold it because it was totally ruined in his eyes. Let us know if you come to any conclusions with the shop that did the work.... I am interested if they even care enough to make right.

[scandore]

I think the work speaks for itself

I wish what you are saying was true. Your story is full of half truths which I think the members will be able to read right through. Come on A 69 camaro for $2000.00 thats the best one in my book.
Yes I didn't tell all the details about the frame straightening the car but as you said they straightened it.

Hey Just give me a call I just don't want to hear the work is good

and by the way the painter that you sent me to is the first person that told me I got screwed

[radrambler]

i read this and look at the pics and dont even know what to think..

is this real...

rodger ?

tom

[ironworks]

Oh it is real, I have been dealing with this drama for 6 months. There is no way for either of us to prove our case one way or the other in this forum. I felt it was best to step in and stand up for where I knew this thread was going. Tyson tried this on Friday in the Paint and body section and got himself banned on another screen name. Look for yourself. I hope the reputation that my many other customers give me speaks volumes of the work we do. And once in a while as any person in business will tell you, we all have customers that turn into bad apples. Well let me introduce you to one of mine. I hope my integrity has shown through and that my reputation on our many many other satisfied customers shine through beyond what some guy who now wants me to now call him, after I did 6 months ago and offered to work with him on a project we never completed. Is this the way to go about things if you want to work with some one or is this the way a bad apple goes about it.

Let the pissing contest begin

[Steve1968LS2]

Tyson tried this on Friday in the Paint and body section and got himself banned on another screen name. Look for yourself.

To be fair to Tyson it looks like that was a buddy of his trying to "stir the pot".. Tyson asked him to stop.

I've never seen the car so I'm not going to pick any sides here.

I will say though that I take pictures for a living and they only tell a part of any story since they give no context. In other words they capture a specific moment in time.

I guess what I'm trying to tell everyone is to resist the urge to "bandwagon" against either side.

[Datsbad]

Rodger You need to think what you post if you want to retain your intergrity.

I mean no disrespect

[TreySmith]

That looks like utter SH*T!! The body shop I work at would have done twice as good and painted the car for $2500 tops.. We are doing a 71 chevelle right now, replacing one quarter, grinding the WHOLE car down to bare metal, priming, various other rust repair, and painting the car.. I think the total came out to be $2500 to $3000..

Sucks you got ripped off :(.. I was going to get my quarters done for $400 for BOTH sides but I don't feel like waiting..


EDIT: Just read ironworks report, and now I can sorta understand where the money came from..
I am not sure if you bought a roller camaro, or a rolled over camaro.. Probably should have looked it over a little better before you bought it.. For $26,000, you could have gotten a car already finished,

[awr68]

Lets just hope its not a sponsor like Anthonys deal was ....?????


Jason, for the record mine was f-ed up by a senior member not sponsor......

[bcbuilder]

in fairness to ironworks that rear end looks to be fabbed up correctly.The pinion on a 9 inch is offset and one would be wrong to measure from the pinion not the housing.other than that the work looks totally substandard.Im surprised this threads still up, i guess the mods havnt recieved free parts from ironworks so they are not sure what to do.Im sure this post of mine will be deleted.But its the sad truth about this site.Its time for the honest enthusiasts and shops to stand up to these crooks who are turning our buisness/hobby into a joke.

[ironworks]

What happened to the post I was going to comment on? It was only there for like 5 seconds.

[tellyv]

That looks like utter SH*T!! The body shop I work at would have done twice as good and painted the car for $2500 tops.. We are doing a 71 chevelle right now, replacing one quarter, grinding the WHOLE car down to bare metal, priming, various other rust repair, and painting the car.. I think the total came out to be $2500 to $3000..

Sucks you got ripped off :(.. I was going to get my quarters done for $400 for BOTH sides but I don't feel like waiting..


EDIT: Just read ironworks report, and now I can sorta understand where the money came from..
I am not sure if you bought a roller camaro, or a rolled over camaro.. Probably should have looked it over a little better before you bought it.. For $26,000, you could have gotten a car already finished,

how do you stay in buisness total paint for what!!!!! the paint and materials I use on my cars cost more that your whole job? Your not going to be in buisness very long if your charging that much!!!!! were do you buy your paint at the hardware store?

[jcal87]

Trey...... maaco doesn't count bro i painted my spoiler by myself the other day and bought cheap paint and it was $200 alone for cheap a paint. I am not a professional or anything but if the job you are doing is for only $2500-2800 It cannot be professional. It is either extremely amateur at its best or somebody is very stupid.It would cost you just about that in materials....But if you can prove me wrong let me know where your shop is because your gonna earn some business real quick:lol:

[buickfunnycar.com]

oh man...:willy:

[ironworks]

So who is 55chevydude and why is banned from this post?

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18722&page=5

and what about camarobuff? He was banned also.

So Tyson had 2 friends banned that he told to stop or edited his post to ask them to "STOP"??? HHHMMMM


I was told he edited his post by a moderator?

[SWAPMEETCRAZY]

[QUOTE=Steve1968LS2;193339]To be fair to Tyson it looks like that was a buddy of his trying to "stir the pot".. Tyson asked him to stop.

I guess what I'm trying to tell everyone is to resist the urge to "bandwagon" against either side.[/QUOTE

All I know is that I have spent hours looking at Roger's work on his website
and I have a problem believing he left this car in the shape it's in !! Let's see it before the other shops got involved!! That said, Roger I think this thread needs to be ended !! Not going to be solved here!! :yes:

[Barry Badranath]

I am surprised the mods have allowed this thread, I have watched this site and been a user on pro touring for a while.... Normally these posts about vendors are deleted? I guess with more and more of them poping up, the mods are finally sticking up for the users of their sites.

[XcYZ]

Barry, it all depends on how we it is approached. If it's simply a smear campaign, it will be deleted.



Also, members and lurkers need to know that if we hear/see the words LAWYER or LITIGATION or LIBEL, those threads have been - and will be - deleted instantly. No debate.

[War]

in fairness to ironworks that rear end looks to be fabbed up correctly.The pinion on a 9 inch is offset and one would be wrong to measure from the pinion not the housing.

Actually, you can order a 9" housing center or pinion center. For a 69 you would order a pinion center, regardless the link brackets would be the same distance off bearing ends measuring off a pinion centered or housing centered rear.

So yes the brackets look to be welded in correctly, but that appears to be the wrong housing.

[Steve1968LS2]

So who is 55chevydude and why is banned from this post?

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18722&page=5

and what about camarobuff? He was banned also.

So Tyson had 2 friends banned that he told to stop or edited his post to ask them to "STOP"??? HHHMMMM


I was told he edited his post by a moderator?


I don't keep up on all the drama. All I know is that Tyson had sent me a complaint email. I told him not to post under assumed names and he told me that it was someone he knew that thought he was helping. I told him it wasn't and he told the guy to stop.

I'm not smart enough to do IP traces. lol

Either way the complainer was a shill so he was banned. We can't abide people acting like they are disinterested third parties, it's just not honest.

The truth of the matter is that threads like this go nowhere. The best thing is for the customer to work out a deal with the shop so that both sides end up satisfied. I know that's not always possible, but it's the best case senario every time.

[Vegas69]

It amazes me that members that are normally in the shadows and not contributing to this website in any way always come out of their shell when they see some trouble brewing. How do you expect to be recieved? I frequent another website where you introduce yourself first, before you start asking for help or challenging members with a reputation.

[FaBrycation]

well as a fabricator who touched this car toward the end of its time at the shop. all i can say is that when you bring a car to a shop that has been rearended extremely hard at some point in its life. enough to where the roof was kinked and the trans tunnel wrinkled. and you expect that anyone can fix it for pennies your ignorant. its not that the work is bad its that its unfinished. i know that wasn't our final product! show everyone the pics of the roof and tunnel!

Brycen

[Steve1968LS2]

I am surprised the mods have allowed this thread, I have watched this site and been a user on pro touring for a while.... Normally these posts about vendors are deleted? I guess with more and more of them poping up, the mods are finally sticking up for the users of their sites.

It has nothing do with "sticking up for the users" since that assumes any of us knows who, if anyone, is at fault here.

The OP started this thread to ask opinions, he didn't mention the name of the shop. It was the shop's decision to address the thread.

Both sides have now given their sides and it's very likely the thread will eventually be locked.

Why? because a bunch of internet people that only know parts of the story really can't come to the truth in a matter like this. The best they can do is read both sides, look at past work and come to their own personal conclusions.

As a website we don't like to become entangled in these "he said/she said" deals since, in theory, it could make the site a party to the complaint. I'm sure how you could see that the site owner wouldn't be up for that sort of fun.

It's also true that the site isn't the automotive equivelant of the People's Court. lol

[FaBrycation]

and as for the quarters, we hadn't hammered the welds yet so those are tig welds unhammered big deal, again not finished

[ironworks]

I don't keep up on all the drama. All I know is that Tyson had sent me a complaint email. I told him not to post under assumed names and he told me that it was someone he knew that thought he was helping. I told him it wasn't and he told the guy to stop.



So let me get this straight you ban his "supposed" buddies from doing this 4 days ago and now knowing what his obvious intent is you allow him to do it again? Did you think the out come would be different? So now based on knowing that things like this are pointless, you allow him to do it again? And you never even contacted me about it the first time you deleted it? Could you have asked for my side before you allowed a 2nd time? It makes wonder how bad the first post was if that one got deleted and this one is not even locked.

[camcojb]

So let me get this straight you ban his "supposed" buddies from doing this 4 days ago and now knowing what his obvious intent is you allow him to do it again? Did you think the out come would be different? So now based on knowing that things like this are pointless, you allow him to do it again? And you never even contacted me about it the first time you deleted it? Could you have asked for my side before you allowed a 2nd time? It makes wonder how bad the first post was if that one got deleted and this one is not even locked.

this one isn't locked because after asking me you went ahead and started posting your side, when the shop that had done the work wasn't even known. I told you what would likely happen, and by posting I assumed you decided to leave this up and give your side.

As far as "allowing" a second or third post, how the hell are we supposed to know who a new member with a completely different username is and what he plans until he makes the post? :rolleyes:

This is a perfect example of why we don't allow these to run. I'm locking it up now, can't win for losing here...................

Jody

[Steve1968LS2]

So let me get this straight you ban his "supposed" buddies from doing this 4 days ago and now knowing what his obvious intent is you allow him to do it again? Did you think the out come would be different? So now based on knowing that things like this are pointless, you allow him to do it again? And you never even contacted me about it the first time you deleted it? Could you have asked for my side before you allowed a 2nd time? It makes wonder how bad the first post was if that one got deleted and this one is not even locked.

Easy there tiger.. Don't getting all riled up at us.

We didn't "allow" anything. A member posted a thread. How were we to not allow the member to post? Ban him because he MIGHT post? lol...

And to be fair we have a basic "no bashing" guideline we follow. When the OP made this thread he didn't mention the name of the shop so he wasn't in violation of this rule. You're the one that stepped forward and said it was Ironworks in the dispute.

And the last time I checked the Mod lounge we didn't have a crystal ball, so how were we to know he was going to make a post, or what it would contain.

Think of this as an occupational hazzard of the internet, but this squabble is in no way the fault of this board or the mods that help out. We stated that people shouldn't just go by pictures and that there's two sides to every dispute. Was that not fair?

Ask any business and if they are around a while they are going to end up with an unhappy customer, this one is yours. It happens, but don't go blaming us.

[Steve1968LS2]

this one isn't locked because after asking me you went ahead and started posting your side, when the shop that had done the work wasn't even known. I told you what would likely happen, and by posting I assumed you decided to leave this up and give your side.

As far as "allowing" a second or third post, how the hell are we supposed to know who a new member with a completely different username is and what he plans until he makes the post? :rolleyes:

This is a perfect example of why we don't allow these to run. I'm locking it up now, can't win for losing here...................

Jody

Haven't you heard.. we're the psychic mods now.. I'm off to Vegas!! ;)