pro touring suspension on a beer budget?

[jcal87]

I need some help guys i have a 68 camaro and i'd love to have a corner carving machine with a dse subframe and suspension. but for the time being its not in my budget what can i due with the stock suspension to make it better or is there any minor upgrades that can come close?

you tube video of my car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neCCBVy8oy4

[deuce_454]

give markus at sc&c a call... my advive would be, tall ball joints, solid frame mount bushings, stiffer suspension bushings, good shocks and higher rate stay bars...

[Travis77]

Definately give Marcus a call. He is a very good source for info:thumbsup:

[J2SpeedandCustom]

Dont forget the Gulstrand mod. I remember Dave Pozzi talking about how good you get the stock stuff to work!

[tones2SS]

Dont forget the Gulstrand mod. I remember Dave Pozzi talking about how good you get the stock stuff to work!

What is the "Gulstrand" mod?

[awr68]

You will find lots of good info on David's site (http://www.pozziracing.com/)!

[jcal87]

what is and how would i go about contacting sc&c? another thing if at all possible is when i start buying stuff i would like it to be compatible for a hiedts or dse subframe? that i might possibly get in the future.

[skatinjay27]

what is and how would i go about contacting sc&c? another thing if at all possible is when i start buying stuff i would like it to be compatible for a hiedts or dse subframe? that i might possibly get in the future.sc&c is a sponser here and youll find thier link on the side bar.
im pretty sure both of those SFs use specific components that only work with thier SF and not interchageable with the stock subframe...

one this I gotta say is that the heidts SF doesent even deserve to mentioned in the same sentence as DSE!!!!!!! lol

youll be able to built a pretty killer handing car with a stock SF and still use leaf springs...without spending an arm and a leg. springs/shocks/leafs/upper control arms/G-mod/ and large front sway bar and youll be more than happy...
but if youve still got those wheel/tires on there thats in the vid, they will definetly have to go if you want a corner carver.

[jcal87]

Ok any recommendations on good suspension componets to throw on a stock subframe and ya the wheels and tires have to go for sure...thats just the way it was when i bought it but they will defenitly have to go.

[ProdigyCustoms]

There are no components that you can put on your stock subframe that will work with a DSE subframe. Now we have a host of killer parts for your stock subframe that can later be put on a Speedtech subframe. And if your on a budget, doing it as cash permits, this would be perfect for you.

We do a lot of this stuff, and have 5 different suspension manufacturers in or product line, so we can truley choose what is best for you.

[Mkelcy]

Ok any recommendations on good suspension componets to throw on a stock subframe and ya the wheels and tires have to go for sure...thats just the way it was when i bought it but they will defenitly have to go.

If I were you (and I once was in your position) I'd spend a lot of time reading David Pozzi's site, and then search for Camaro suspension threads here and on Pro-touring.com.

The stock subframe can be made to handle extremely well; leaf springs in the rear also work extremely well. Too many people (I'm not suggesting you're one of them) spend money before planning out their car. Figure out how much you want to spend; figure out how you want to use your car (there's corner carving on the street and there's corner carving on a track); figure out how much you can do and how much you will have to farm out, and how important bling is as compared to a hard eyed focus on performance improvements. There's really nothing to point to under the hood with the Guldstrand mod, it just works.

The cheapest approach is delrin/delalum UCA/LCA bushings, the Guldstrand mod, good springs, shocks, swaybar and BRAKES. I've got this on my current '68 Camaro driver, and it's a great setup.

You can do a better correction of the front suspension with the SC&C tall balljoints in their UCAs. The "magic" though is in the balljoints, not the UCAs. A tubular UCA with a stock height ball joint is only going to give you "bling," not performance improvement. Tubular LCA's also don't correct geometry, but may help re-center your front wheel in the wheel well reducing or eliminating rub when you have an aggressive caster setting in your alignment. (The ATS tall spindle is a great choice also - similar approach as the tall ball joint with a number of other advantages - but may no longer be available.)

After that, though, I think you're looking at one of the "handling" subframes from DSE, AME or 21st Century Street Machine to name a few. However, plan on spending roughly $7,000 for any of these subs. I would not look at Heidt's, Martz, Fatman or any of the more hotrod oriented subframes if you really want to use your car hard in the twisties or at the track; nor would I go to Speedtech - which gives you the choice of the stock UCA mounting point and relies on something like the SC&C tall ball joint for geometry correction, or has the Guldstrand mod built in.

Read, search and then ask any questions you may still have. And don't forget good brakes.

[markss28]

Keep it simple unless you have deep pockets. Unless you are competing on a regular basis you would be surplised as to what a good set replacement parts can do. First off there are a few companies that sell great leaf spring for handling. CCP, Hotchkis, and a few others. Buy some new springs that will lower the car and some better shocks. Make sure there not drag shocks. You could spend some money and get tubular Upper and lower control arms or just change out the bushings. As for wheels go with 18x8s and 18x10s you may have to do some triming of the fender lip. stuff like that will go along way. Dont forget brakes. Kore 3 is the way to go.

[deuce_454]

Installing tall upper ball joints will accomplish the same as a gullstrand mod, which is to increase the camber gain, the difference betwen the two is the time and effort required... the Street-Comp Stage 2 Packages include both tall upper and lower balljoints, improving camber gain and roll center BEYOND the gullstarnd mod... (and it yields a .5-.3/4 inch drop...)

if it were me id stick to the tall upper/lower balljoint + adjustable upper arm in the SC&C street comp 2 package. aftermarket subframes are 4-10 times the money... the street comp 2 is 800 bucks.. markus us also a big ATS dealer so you might be able to inquire into the ATS spindles.... it is my understanding that tyler who owns ATS is continuing on a part time basis and only closed his vegas shop... so the spindles might still be available but they are 1300 for a pair... you do however save when that on the brakes....


(and heidts is a hot rod company, you get great bling, but crappy handling.... )

i saw Frank chimed in with the speedtech subframe.. i have dealt with both SC&C and Prodogy and can recomend both warmly... but since you are asking for handling on beer budget i strongly recomend that you call markus first: 610-346-8154
http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm

[Heidts#14]

Installing tall upper ball joints will accomplish the same as a gullstrand mod, which is to increase the camber gain, the difference betwen the two is the time and effort required... the Street-Comp Stage 2 Packages include both tall upper and lower balljoints, improving camber gain and roll center BEYOND the gullstarnd mod... (and it yields a .5-.3/4 inch drop...)

if it were me id stick to the tall upper/lower balljoint + adjustable upper arm in the SC&C street comp 2 package. aftermarket subframes are 4-10 times the money... the street comp 2 is 800 bucks.. markus us also a big ATS dealer so you might be able to inquire into the ATS spindles.... it is my understanding that tyler who owns ATS is continuing on a part time basis and only closed his vegas shop... so the spindles might still be available but they are 1300 for a pair... you do however save when that on the brakes....


(and heidts is a hot rod company, you get great bling, but crappy handling.... )

i saw Frank chimed in with the speedtech subframe.. i have dealt with both SC&C and Prodogy and can recomend both warmly... but since you are asking for handling on beer budget i strongly recomend that you call markus first: 610-346-8154
http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm

LOL....:thumbsup: . All I can say is I think you are under estimating us. I would love to have you guys come out, take a tour, take the camaros out for a spin, and have a good time. I gaurantee you would have a smile from ear to ear. I am just saying I think we are being under estimated.

[Vegas69]

Welcome Heidts 14. Seemed like you guys did fine in the shoot out recently. It's going to be a stigma you are going to have to deal with similar to GM. We are pretty set on function and looks around here. Sounds like you are making the right changes.

[Heidts#14]

Welcome Heidts 14. Seemed like you guys did fine in the shoot out recently. It's going to be a stigma you are going to have to deal with similar to GM. We are pretty set on function and looks around here. Sounds like you are making the right changes.

Vegas69,
Thank you for the welcome, and you are correct we are the hot rod guru's but our new owner Marc Prince is a very aggressive obssessed muscle car enthusiast. I am not here to bad mouth anyone, wait too see what comes out this year :unibrow: Its going to be fun!!!

[jcal87]

thanx for all the great info guys.and i do want a street carver that i can get grocerys with if i want.But my one problem thats has kicked me in the a** many times is spending alot of money on one thing, to just completly redo it it later down the road, when i could have just saved the money and got me there quicker.I am a guy who likes to do it right the first time and have it be the best even if i have to sacrifice....so i will keep researching and hopefully come to a conclusion

[markss28]

Vegas69,
Thank you for the welcome, and you are correct we are the hot rod guru's but our new owner Marc Prince is a very aggressive obssessed muscle car enthusiast. I am not here to bad mouth anyone, wait too see what comes out this year :unibrow: Its going to be fun!!!

Ive looked at ya'lls stuff before and I did like the new rear suspension for the 2nd gens. I just wish it could fit a bigger tire, but it does come with a great price compaired to the rest of the guys.

[deuce_454]

LOL....:thumbsup: . All I can say is I think you are under estimating us. I would love to have you guys come out, take a tour, take the camaros out for a spin, and have a good time. I gaurantee you would have a smile from ear to ear. I am just saying I think we are being under estimated.


I admit i could be... i drove a 32 with one of your front ends and it pushed and drove funny.. it could be installed wrong.. or alligned wrong... so ill just put my foot in my mouth

nice tall spindle btw... do tell more, it could be another beer budget option...
http://www.heidts.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=154/category_id=102/home_id=70/mode=prod/prd154.htm

[Heidts#14]

I admit i could be... i drove a 32 with one of your front ends and it pushed and drove funny.. it could be installed wrong.. or alligned wrong... so ill just put my foot in my mouth

nice tall spindle btw... do tell more, it could be another beer budget option...
http://www.heidts.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=154/category_id=102/home_id=70/mode=prod/prd154.htm

More than likely it was alligned improperly but that is neither here nor there. Thank you though about the props on the spindle. It is a 2" Drop spindle with the upper ball joint raised 1-1/2 " to get some better adjustment. You can utilize your stock arms and stock disc brakes which makes it nice also.

Again we are not here to bash anyone, or start anything. People are just getting misinformed and we need to change that. So lets all get together and :cheers: . Man I love those smilies

[awr68]

Welcome Heidts, look forward to seeing what you are working on this year. Sounds like the new boss has a good background and should be a big help with your muscle car suspensions. :thumbsup:

[Mkelcy]

I agree. Everyone would be very excited to see another supplier of well enginered, well thought out products for our cars. As long as the emphasis is engineering (and not merely marketing hot rod products as "pro-touring") you'll be welcomed with open arms.

[Heidts#14]

Thank you for the welcome guys. Our muscle car products are not being designed off of any of our hot rod products what so ever. Our engineers are hard at work making sure the geometry is going to be the best for that particular vehicle.

Have a good night guys,
Later :faint: