Please allow me to rant, support your vendors! [Archive]

DriverzInc

01-13-2009, 04:58 PM

I've talked to many of the supporting vendors on this site over the past two years. Gotten to know them very well, and I'm even a dealer for many of them, and many of them are dealers for our wheels. In light of the recent events such as ATS closing doors, I just wanted to remind everyone to continue supporting the vendors that you depend on for good customer service and technical information day in and day out here on the forums.

I've recently been tracking some of the phone conversations and email conversations I've had recently with our customers and what I'm finding out is very discouraging. Over half of the people that I've worked with extensively over the past two months have taken our conversations regarding backspace and tire information and bought wheels from alternative sources. I'm having a huge problem swallowing this as I put in a ton of effort in figuring out what fit those customers specific applications, and when it came right down to it, they bought a similar product or in some cases the same product from another company, after using us for free tech help just to save a few small dollars. Now, I'm a fair guy, but if that situation continues to occur, Driverz, Inc., and other companies that go the extra mile, won't be around any longer to help you guys.

All I'm saying is, think about who you spend your money with. Choose who is administering the best customer service, and the best overall service to you, the end user, and continue to support those vendors with your loyal patronage. Otherwise, the guys like us who do really care about you, and your individual needs won't be around in the future to help you, or others like you.

Thanks again to all our loyal customers, whom over the years have continued to come back to us for your parts. It is because of you that we can continue to keep our doors open to help others. And it is because of you that our dream of doing what we love for a living is a reality.

:lateral:

ironworks

01-13-2009, 05:18 PM

DriverzInc

01-13-2009, 05:28 PM

preach it Jon....

I have a customer who owns a skate shop in the local mall and he hears people say that they are going to go home and order the same shoe off the internet because they tried it on at his shop and he is 10 bucks higher. That is totally jacked.

All of us as builders learn a lot of secrets and tips and develop connections to get certain info because of the work we I have done and people side step my effort all the time to order it from Ebay or some other place for just a few bucks. The best is when they call you after they bought it some where else to get advice on how to install it. Or they thought they bought the right part, but they did not know about this other part that is not in the catalog that you were trying to sell them that actually works unlike the wrong part they got. Or the other story where they think your price is way higher but they find out the cheaper price they found does not include everything they need.

The helpful customer service and advise is not free, we have a phone bill to pay and a power bill to. Even if the Price is retail, you should support your sponsors and vendors. There is not a huge margin in these parts and when you go some where else over 15 bucks it is not about the 15 bucks it is about the other chunk we did not get. FYI in order to get a typical 25% discount you have to spend 25,000 -35,000 per year. That is alot of stuff to sell.

Sorry to steal your soap box you can have it back.

Nope, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Thank you for contributing! I've actually had customers do the same thing, where they will get all the info on what fits their car from me, and then order wheels from "Brand B's" camp,and then will post up or email about how mad they are they are having to wait 6 months for wheels. I hate to say it, but I told you so, and I warned you. Remember, this is what we do, day in and day out, so there are a lot of behind the scenes information we get that may not make it out to the public, and when we advise you that it might be a better decision to go another route, chances are you should, but you didn't, and now you're having problems.

camcojb

01-13-2009, 05:34 PM

Jon, you are correct. Unfortunately there will always be the guy who goes for best price possible. Hopefully this strikes a chord with the members as it's critical to support those vendors who support you. If you don't they will not be around next time you need them.

Before my current business I spent a lot of time in retail. I owned my own speed shop in the early 80's and the only way I survived was with good customer service. I could not match most of the "big boys" prices, but I always took care of my customers and gave them the best deal possible. Built a very loyal clientele.

Jody

Blown353

01-13-2009, 05:36 PM

Agreed with both of you. I don't talk someone's ear off on the phone and then buy elsewhere. If they help me, they get the business-- period. If their prices are really high I might mention a competitor's price to see if they have some wiggle room on the price. Even if they stick by their guns I still buy from them as they helped me. Their time isn't free. Unfortunately it seems in the world today where it is very easy to price search on the internet people take the info from you and them go on google and sort by lowest price and buy from that source.

You guys could start doing what another friend in the industry does... when you know someone is phone-@#$*ing you with no intention to buy from you feed them bad info :lol: He says it's a riot when they call back cussing and complaining they bought what he recommended elsewhere and guess what, it doesn't work! He then gives them a real earful. Mean trick for sure, but probably hurts his reputation more than he would like to admit as you know those guys are pissed and badmouth him every chance they get even though they didn't purchase from him!

Steve1968LS2

01-13-2009, 05:38 PM

I can see price shopping if the price diff is considerable, but if it's in the ballpark I would rather buy from the company I like for various reasons like customer service or "enthusiasm".

I would also rather pay a bit extra for better customer service down the line.

War

01-13-2009, 05:43 PM

Very good point Jon. I bought my Welds for my truck from you and I didn't have to talk to you about back spacing, you knew what I needed and took care of it.

If someone goes out of their way to help or has the knowledge I have no problem paying a few more bucks for the help.

moparnut

01-13-2009, 05:51 PM

You are 100% right on. I build high end cars everyday (for 20 years) and theres nothing better than a good vendor for support. I think there are a lot of 1st time builders that dont take into account who is going to help them should they have a problem with a part-they are not going to be able to get a hold of that person somewhere in cyberspace who sold them a part $10 cheaper than their local vendor. Young guys out there reading this listen up-I'm a professional- if these guys are taken for granted, you will be doing a lot of guess-work on your own. :cheers:

brans72

01-13-2009, 05:59 PM

I must say the the vendors like Driverz inc,Prodigy,Sc&C have some of the best tech support out there and I recomm supporting them back! John knows his wheels and even sold his pride 55 chevy for the guys on the form to keep his company open, Frank and Lisa of Prodigy 8-10 when do these people have time to have a life outside of work (Frank has been doing cars least 15 yrs i bet if not longer!!!) Mark of SC&C is only one that anwsers his phone ever so means he is a small company busting a$* to help our cars perform like you want them to not to mention the guy will talk and listen to you! I have supported all 3 and others on here and hope you will to!! you get what you pay for and all the vendors have great products and support so lets not abuse what they give and go else where to save $30.00. I have delt with more then a few vendors and know some will match or get you dang close to help you out anyway possible. so lets help them back so we do not see more companies close there door like ATS. now vendors offer Tyler a job cause this guy seems to know his sh%t just my .02

Vegas69

01-13-2009, 06:01 PM

Couldn't agree more, without the help of vendors on this website I wouldn't have been able to put together such a killer car. At least not with more hurdles and money lost.
Boy can I relate being in Real Estate. I have been fortunate not to be screwed to many times but you can put alot of time and effort into one person and come up empty handed. Still stings, just not as long as it used to.:D

brans72

01-13-2009, 06:08 PM

You can call a company like Driverz Inc etc for info etc and not order right away might take 6 months before you do but I think it makes them feel even better when you call back and place a order. I know I called John 3 times before ordering and them 6 times before my wheels showed up but DAMN they where worth it!!!!! One of a kind,what I wanted and vendor that is very thankful that I ordered from him (I ould order from john again). Frank I have talked to least 12 times and only ordered 3 things but they where not cheap but he will talk to you about you car ( I asked him about ideas I had for my car and he gave me his feedback) nothing to do with the part I ordered so excellent customer service and products from all vendors. oh last I would say I saw a old post on autokraft oil pan called Kurt up and he gave me a discount from a post that was over 6 months old :thumbsup: so think this site is is going due to scott and sponsor/vendors and sure I forgot someone or a few others. Bandon

ohcbird

01-13-2009, 06:12 PM

Not that this is anything earth-shattering, but the problem is with places like Amazon.com, Buy.com, etc (a HUGE list, BTW), most off-the-shelf items have become simple commodities. That is what the consumer perceives, and what you are fighting daily. CNC? Hah- now guys think that all you have to do is draw it, chuck a chunk of metal, then cut it. Bam- instant custom part that 'has to be cheap because they didn't have to build it by hand'. :( Again- it's an issue of consumer perception, not your reality.

While most of the older guys might not internet shop- The customer that is going to pay your bills for the next 30 years is well versed in shopping around. Note that I did not mention Summit & Jegs... they changed the buying landscape, but that was going to happen anyway. If it wasn't them it would have been somebody else (remember when the PAW catalog was 400+ pages?).

John- you know as well as I do what happens to the guys that are in business to undercut the 'other guy'. They won't last long. If guys are price shopping, let them. They'll be back around when the real character of the 'other guy' comes out.

Jeff

Roadster Shop

01-13-2009, 06:28 PM

These companies are called "Supporting Vendors", supporting your hobby - How about returning the favor and supporting them?

A lot of good points made here that need to come to light. All of the vendors on these sites are breaking their @$$ and spending countless hours building reputations, proving their products, answering tech questions, and putting their support into all of "your" projects. It seams that the majority of people are interested in saving a few bucks. But what about the companies that are making this hobby possible?

Bottom line is that these cars are expensive to build. Saving a few bucks may seam harmless, but it is definitely hurting the companies that are making all of this possible.

We have completely stopped selling parts and eliminated them from our show room because it was not worth having the large inventory costs that don't seam to pay off.

-RS Performance

HRBS

01-13-2009, 06:36 PM

Jon,
I hear you loud and clear. You've helped me many times.
My phone constantly rings for "pricing" or advice.
By the time I invest the time and effort to get the best price from my suppliers, (you included) they wind up buying elsewhere. And most of the times over a few dollars.
I often have the same experience with my estimates. I try to be as fair and honest up front. I DONT leave anything out. No detail left unsaid. The "sticker shock" of reality makes them search elsewhere only to fall victim of the age-old "hook-line-sinker" deal where builders leave alot out only to surprise the customer later once the car is already apart. Then they call me looking for advice and to ask how to resolve there "issues".
They seem to forget the person or persons who made an effort to gather the all the information and pricing up front.
We've had our talks Jon.... and you know where I stand.
Well make it work one of these days. :thumbsup:
Keep your head up... its guys like you who are appreciated by guys like me.

ProdigyCustoms

01-13-2009, 06:51 PM

First I agree 100% about supporting the vendors. And as the market tightens it can really be more painful. But I have a unique view on this because I love the technical work and have found a way to make it a huge part of our business plan.

Because of this open tech service, it is possible no vendor on these forums deals with more tech service that goes somewhere else to buy then I do because for 2 years it is clearly in my signature

FREE PRO TOURING TECH and PROJECT PLANNING for forum members
Weekdays 8AM TO 10PM EASTERN TIME
FOUR ZERO SEVEN 832 1752

So I get inundated with calls.

I make it clear our tech service for the membership and is free with no purchase necessary. I spend literally hours a day on the phone, my cell phone, doing tech and project planning. Helping develop build plans. Helping work inside of budgets and goals, making sure my guy is not over spending or under spend in one area of another, giving away every how to secret I have learned in 27 years of building cars, and advising what I KNOW from experience what works and what does'nt. A lot of these calls are often from other shops that are not Pro Touring specialist. We work with and supply hobbyist and shops all over the world. And let me tell you, a guy 10,000 miles away needs help to be sure he gets the right thing, cause returns from overseas are a bitch!

There are 4 kinds of tech calls I deal with on our open tech line

(1) Mister loyal buyer. This is the guy that is going to buy from us because he appreciates the service, technical advice, the experience, no hard sell approach, and he trust us. He has seen our builds, he has seen our post, and he knows we know our stuff. This guys knows he is getting a good deal and will almost always come back for more stuff. I like to look at this guy as the make a little on a lot of items, instead of make a killing on one sale.

(2) Mister shopper. This is the guy looking for free tech advice and he will go somewhere else to buy at a better negotiate price. this guy can be hard to spot, he may even promise to come back and buy, but he won't because he never intended to unless he could not beat anyone else up anymore. This guy will probably throw our name out and use it for leverage, a bargaining wedge to try to get a better price from a competitor. Or maybe he goes to a pajama retailer selling on E bay or a forum from his living room. But even this guy will often times refer others to us for technical advice and those become buyers because they are not the Mister Shopper type, but are the Mister Loyal Buyer type. So even Mister shopper, however sideways, can create a future sale.

(3) Mister straight up, I am buying somewhere else. This is the guy that has the balls up front to tell you he is buying somewhere else for whatever reason. This guy will tell you he just wants to get your advice because he wants to verify the first guy advise. I appreciate this guy that tells me up front he is buying someone else same or competing product but really only trust my recommendations (I have a couple of these in a PM box today). I even had a guy call me to spec out Vintage Air system and tell me he is buying from his buddy because he is helping the buddy do a buy in to become a dealer for vintage Air. Whatever. There buddy probably won't sell radiators, so maybe this guy buys a Prodigy Customs radiator down the road. Mister straight up may also tell a friend how accommodating we are and that friend just might be a Mister Loyal type.

(4) And then there is Mister Dreamer. This is the guy that either has no money, never will have any money, or may not even have a car. This guy is easy to spot early in the conversation, but I am never rude as you never know when this guy may inherit some money, have a friend with money and tell them how helpful we are, or our dreamer might hit the lottery. It is only 6 random numbers.

So while my closing ratio of sales to hours on the phone is horrendously low, we still do a huge amount of business. And at the end of the day I feel great because I know helped some people with their dream (and these toys really are dreams for most members), I know if they bought from me I gave them a good deal, and even though I did not get every sale, I still made good money and got to live a absolute dream.

I mean come on, I get to talk about cars. I get to build and own some of the most badd ass cars on the planet. I get to make dreams come true, and I make a living doing it.

camaro2nv

01-13-2009, 06:56 PM

I shop the vendors on this site all the time. As for wheels, vendors on this site dont carry the wheels I like. Just so happens the wheel company I want to order from hasnt done my car. Now I did make a post about fitment in the wheel section. I wasnt trying to cut anyone out but at the same time I thought this was a place to come to learn about things like that.
Edit I did get a offer from Frank and Ill be taking him up on it. Im just waiting until I get some cash to buy the G bar when I make the call.

Blake Foster

01-13-2009, 07:09 PM

Hey Frank...........

I got a question??? :rofl:

seriously .............. :cheers:

i am a bit of the old school guy........ i resist buying off the net as much as possible. i even resist not buying from our local speed shop, mainly because the guy i always talk to knows his sh$% too, and i get to get a second opinion on a part maybe we haven't used previously from the guy who sells them all day long and can tell me if the part sucks cuz he also sees the returns/ warranty.
i also try to buy and sell and or push guys to other supporting vendors, i think since SEMA i have forwarded 3 different guys to Jon to get the same wheel/tires that we had on the speed tech camaro. now i have no way of knowing if they actually called him and ordered them, but like was said earlier 2 of them were shops that obviously did not have a good handle on what was involved in putting 20x12 /345/35 tiers on the back of a first gen camaro. they didn't buy the wheels from us.

98ssnova

01-13-2009, 07:32 PM

Man guys I am turly sorry to hear this I feel as a "member" I do support the vendors on this site I have surfed pretty much all the links to the left HAHA. I do buy from you guys mostly ATS. I remember when i first read Tyler's post and though damn this sucks. But then people started post that they wanted spindles or something else. This really pissed me off why would you be waiting to pull the trigger on these things. I don't have alot of money and I still somehow manage to pull together a sizable amount of money to me and spent every last dollar at ATS I the thing that turned me most was Tyler's service we were invited into his shop and just talked about cars and dreams and that to me was more impressive than the forged spindles that I bought so I do appreicate customer service and feel that we as members need to get off our wallets and support these guys the way they do us. Sorry rant off I just don't want this community to go away. :lateral: :cheers:

Flash68

01-13-2009, 07:32 PM

Very good posts and topic, Jon. I have bought 2 tire sets from you and will always give you a call on future tire/wheel purchases if you can get what I am looking for. Your service has been fantastic.

That being said, I just want to point out that many buyers and enthusiasts are in tough financial shape as well (my business was down over 50% from 07 to 08) so this can and will affect how "frugal" many buyers will behave. I think we all realize this - I just wanted to point this out, however obvious it is.

But the bottom line is consistent here - if you spend time talking to a vendor (paying/supporting vendor status or not) and his price is close enough to the best price you have found, go with that vendor who helped you. :thumbsup:

Time are tough for a lot of people tho....

Musclerodz

01-13-2009, 07:39 PM

I get this as well, but I get alot more of it with our shop work. Local guys know my work, like what I do, but don't like the up front "this is what it is going to cost" price. What usually happens is someone else will lowball me by quite a bit, and before the car gets out of their shop, they have paid as much or more than my original quote for an inferior job. I know of at least 6 cars this happened with last year.

I have on more than one occasion referred customers to other vendors if they carried something I didn't. I even buy from other board members if it is a product I don't carry. I will openly admit I have bought several parts from Frank at Prodigy, Marcus at SC&C, and a few others. Not only are they competitors, I also consider them friends. If we don't take care of each other, no one else will.

bigtyme1

01-13-2009, 07:48 PM

I'll have to admit I've been pretty loyal to one guy in general who has helped me since the begining of my build 4 years ago . Considering this is the biggest build I have ever done. 7/24 he's been there for me, and I can be a real pain in the A$$. He knows who he is. That being said I've also been trying to help out alot of the little guys that are just getting started in the business even if the price is higher. It's all about relationships and loyalty to me and not just the money savings. Lets face it at the end of that day I'd like to just kick back and have a drink with all the venders and builders.
Some of you may know I have a problem making up my mind but most of the time if I call somebody about a product they have my sale if it's what I want and there not just trying to change my mind because they make a better profit from it. Just the other day I called about some info on some seats and I ended up buying them because he was such a nice guy and I could tell he was sincere and wasn't pushing a sale on me. I can honestly say I have purchased about 90% parts for my car from somebody on Lateral G. and will continue too, and pass the word onto others.

awr68

01-13-2009, 07:49 PM

Frank hit it on the head! These cars are 'dreams' for many of us and the vendors on this site deffinatly help us get to the end with all their knowledge and awesome customer service....and they do what they can on pricing to help as well! But we can't forget that the vendors are also chasing their 'dreams' and need help too! Bottom line, this comunity is a family....lets help eachother out and keep the dreams going! It's a real shame that Tyler had to close ATS...let's not loose another awesome vendor! :lateral:

cluxford

01-13-2009, 08:20 PM

For me there are 2 guys who have both posted reponses up here that opitimise why I love this hobby.

Mike (MuscleRodz) and Frank (Prodigy).

As I am in Australia, the price of anything I buy is automatically 25% more expensive due to currency exchange, but I then have international shipping and customs duties on top. So a $1000 part ends up at my door for like $1500.

When you are buildng a top shelf car that adds up. I reckon Fx and shipping / duties have cost me in real cash over $15,000 alone for what I have bought so far.

So why do I pretty much ONLY buy my stuff from these 2 guys....simple.

Service and advice. They are both straight up, pleasant, knowledgable, very responsive and genuinely interested in my build and how they can support that.

I could shop around and save $$$, but I have no interest in doing that.

Shopping around is a fact of life, but anyone who really values what it truly takes to earn a dollar realises that nothing is for free. Even in a commodity market you can still make mistakes in buying that with sound advice you could have avoided.

But we all know that people will shop around, do you stop providing advice ? It comes down to whether it helps make money or in fact costs you money and that is a decision we all have to make in all of our businesses evryday, where do we invest our time to generate the greatest return.

I hope the vendors that frequent this site are widly profitable and successful so they can keep helping us build killer cars !!!

jst8a5.0

01-13-2009, 09:06 PM

Yeah, I can't figure it out either. It's like loyalty as a whole doesn't exist. I do appreciate this topic being brought up however. See, I considered myself loyal to those who help me with customer service. Here's how it went down. I went to my local paint supply and saw a paint gun I wanted. I figured since I didn't have too much paint business at that time that it was ok if I didn't buy from them. I can't just buy stuff on a whim or just go and get it when it's needed. I have a daughter on the way, I am a first year business owner in a small town with morgage to pay. That's how I justified myself. I wound up chosing a mid line gun. I noted the price and then I went online to where a buddy gets his paint and stuff from. I looked and saw the same paint gun was about 50 dollars cheaper. Shipping wound up being more than I expected and I saved a whopping 20 dollar bill all said and done. After I get the gun I have to shoot a couple things. Alright, right? Well, I have to get the paint from the paint store! Soon my lid gets a crack. I need a new one. Yeah the guilt is really setting in. Getting a lot more paint work. Now I need a higher end gun to do mainly clear. Do I go to the internet? After all the looking and fondling of the high end Iwata, you bet I bought it from the paint store! They even gave it to me for what that website listed it as before shipping! Yeah even more guilt! GO WITH THOSE THAT HELP YOU!!! Honestly, 20 bucks? Was it worth it? Nope. Internet sites cannot go to your shop and demo a product. Nor can they help you when the weather is different such as paint gun settings and material use. I learned the hard way and I considered myself loyal but was shown what I really was. Don't learn the hard way like me!

monza

01-13-2009, 11:03 PM

radrambler

01-14-2009, 09:01 AM

guys
id like to say thanks to the supporting vendors i bought from while working on my project so far .also the ones i didnt get a chance to buy from but answered my questions about their products.all of you have great customer service
the wheel purchase would be the tuffest (havent purchased anything yet)
my project purchasing is now on hold status but i will not forget who you guys are when spending again.

rodger@ironworks
jon @ driverz
mike @ musclerodz
frank @prodigy
chris @fesler

wish you guys all the luck in 09

tom

Mick Mc

01-14-2009, 09:07 AM

Price, in the absence of value...

Mick

ironworks

01-14-2009, 09:56 AM

On the service side of things I have had some just amazing stories. I had a guy come in probably 5 years ago no that wanted me to build a studebaker truck for him and use every part from this 700 mile explorer roll over. He wanted to use the chassis, suspension, ac, engine trans, steering column, seats, radiator, wiring everything, I mean everything. Then he told me that Time and Materials was a joke he wanted an exact price, and an exact date of when it would be done. So I asked him in amazement if he really thought we would only use the explorer parts that were designed to fit into an explorer to build your studebaker. Some parts may work but the studebaker make look like an explorer when we are done. It was pretty funny So I told him 125,000, and you can keep the explorer and you can come back in 6 months to pick up the truck in whatever color you want the paint and interior.

The really funny part is after he told all his buddies I was way to expensive he came back about 1.5 years later and and wanted me to resolve all the problems of the guy who he got to do the project. He said the wheels rub, it pops out of gear, and the steering column linkage was binding up. I asked him is he got what he paid for because it sounds like he went to the lowest bidder shop. He was hoping I would not recognize him, Well I never forget a face.

I have guys call all the time to get rough idea on price and they hear a realistic number from me and choose to go to the other guy because they trick you with the lower price to get you in the door and ten your kinda stuck. It really amazes me what me people will do to just think they are saving a few bucks.

There are some points that I heard from Posies rod shop when I started in business. One if the shop needs a down payment for work they cannot afford to be in business, go some where else. Physically go to other shops to check different levels of quality. If you find what you want in a complete car that is for sale, Buy it cuz it will be cheaper then building it. Never ever go with the lowest bidder, I don't care how low your budget it. The whole thought about a guy doing work for cheaper to get his name out there is crap, His over head is more then the guy who has been at it for years. Solely because the new guy is usally a one man shop, the experience guy usaully has crew working on other project and make other money. The new guy is just inexperienced and is biting off more then he can chew. And probably does not realize how much work it takes to do it right or does not even know how to do it to the quality you may want.

We hear amny stories on here about many people who get takes advantage of or recieve crapy work results, but 90% of that can be prevented with research and not letting the the all might dollar guide the decisions you make.

There is no way to know exactly what any project is going to cost in the beginning, That is like asking how much is bag of groceries, or how many left hand turn do you have to take to get to New York. In this industry there are guy who bid cars like Boyd did, But he got an insane price for the car. The Time and materiel guys make the same amount of money if they build 1 car for 10,000 hours or 10 cars at 1000 hours each, if they are honest.

Last boring Rant, I had a customer talk to me about chopping the top on a pick up. He decided to go to another shop that charges 20 bucks an hour less. Both shops are time and materials. When he got done, I saw the project and asked what the end result on price was, he said they had 125 hours in chopping the top, which was 5625 ( 45 per hour ). I was blown away we had done the same truck in half the time just a few weeks before by coincidences. Because we had the tools to speed up the process. We had hydraulic sheetmetal shaping machine, and an english wheel. Well these guys had done all the metal work with a hammer and dolly and and tree stump. So that is why they are cheaper, but those methods take way longer. Imagine how much quicker a hydraulic bender is over a manual bender, Or an eckold kraft former is over and set of east wood shrinking tools. Why do you think Body shops use air sanders to knock down the big stuff, Or why a mechanic uses air tools to tear your car down.

You need to be efficent.

Rant over.....

buickfunnycar.com

01-14-2009, 10:01 AM

Great thread Jon...and I whole heartedly agree with your comments.:yes:

Being in sales myself I do know how it feels to do your best to make a sale only to find that customer went and bought elsewhere to maybe save a few dollars.Maybe they thought what they saved justified their actions...and I hope they slept better at night knowing they have no loyalty or regard to what excellent service is.Times have changed and I'm convinced 95% of the people I deal with have ZERO loyalty.

This is a community here guys,let's not forget that.Type your comments all day long but just remember...there are real people on the other side of the computer and the advice and suggestions they provide aren't always free...doors need to be kept open and lights need to be turned on...and we haven't even mentioned trying to put food on the table to feed their families.

Do the right thing and support those who support you.:lateral: :woot:

<off my soapbox now>

youthpastor

01-14-2009, 10:13 AM

Right on Jon-

without the vendor tech info I would be in trouble. You know what gets me is I have many products on my car. The stuff that is QUALITY comes from small companies like ATS, DSE, and Rushforth Wheels.:D

Rybar

01-14-2009, 10:42 AM

Welcome to the world of wonderful world of retail! Operating 6 specialty store fronts and internet, I've seen it all. People amaze me... there should be laws or a test about who can breed in this world! Some people will do 'anything' to save small amounts of money.

Frank nailed it in his business plan.
Damn I want to buy something off you right now Frank!

Mister Grinder- I do think you forgot about Mister Grinder, don't you get the guys that just grind the shiz out of you relentlessly throwing down every angle at you for a better deal, I used to play along. I even gave a grinder five bucks once for gas to go shop at my competition; he came back, I knew they didn't have what he wanted. I break the rules now, after 20 years I just can't stand them anymore. I walk away and send in someone else who can't give them deal. I hate them!

I hope most people reading this thread would support the Vendors, but for sure a few of you cheap focks have made it this far in this thread ... support the damn Vendors! Good for the Karma.

Well said Dave, I am in the retail Furniture Business www.furnitura.ca as you know and "the Grinder" are the people I cant stand the most. I used to play along as well, now I just tell them to get the #^%$ out of my store. :lol:

Jon, I understand your points 100%. I too can't stand the fact that a guy like Tyler at ATS has to close the doors.

The problem with people or the consumer is that 90% of them dont give a **** about you or your customer service. All they care about is the bottom dollar price. Those are the people that will grind you down, and take your quote elswhere only to grind somebody else lower until they find somebody desperate enough to sell to them for that price.

I can't stand those people, but must admit those are the majority of them. And then you have the loyal customer who appreciates your service. But I'd have to say there aren't very many of them.

Support the vendors guys!

DriverzInc

01-14-2009, 11:16 AM

Thank you to all of you who posted in response to my post. I think MuscleCarJohn touches on a small point to be made too. With the dawn of the internet, and with forums like this one, we often forget that there are REAL people on the other side of the keyboard, trying to make a living doing this very thing.

Will we discontinue giving away technical assistance to our customers who call and email? Definitely not. How could we, its our lifeline. We might be a little more selective with how much we give away, or how we give it away, but we need to continue in order to let customers know we are making available the best fitting product to fit their application. We can only hope and keep our fingers crossed that the majority percentage of those customers who we do help, will eventually buy from us, or at least call us back and give us the opportunity to match a better deal if they find it elsewhere. In most cases, we've already dropped our prices on what we can to the best possible price, but if you found it 10 bucks cheaper somewhere else, let us know.

I also am very aware that times are hard, and many customers can't not afford to shop around. But in many cases, we're very much in the same ball park on those very same parts, and when we're talking about a matter of a few dollars, remember what those few extra dollars are paying for... better customer service, and product knowledge. And judging by some of the previous stories told in this thread, may save you heartache and additional costs in the future.

This is what we love. It is why we do it, and why we continue to work hard, and spend countless hours on the phone, on these forums, on the road at shows, or in the shop... There's no way I would want to go back to a desk job. But in order for us to continue doing what we do, we will need to depend on loyal customers to come back to us in support of all our hard efforts.

buickfunnycar.com

01-14-2009, 11:27 AM

well said Jon...:thumbsup:

brans72

01-14-2009, 11:32 AM

I try my best to support you John at Driverz inc and Frank at Prodigy these are 2 main companies I have used here besides ats which has closed it doors. Both will get my business again ( ask John or Frank I will call ask ask ask then call back and order). I know some times you think people are just check prices,bsing ect but ask any of them 2 I stayed trued 2 to :lateral: vendors.oh by the way guys you don't know if they will discount unless you ask won't hurt! I have got free shipping,lower prices or something if you just ask. Thanks so far to all vendors here and ones that have helped my Dream come this far.

DOOM

01-14-2009, 04:24 PM

I started my parts purchases for my build with Frank and will continue! All of my other needs will start with these supporting vendors to our left if Frank can't help me . Im in the collision buisness and I could write a novel on people . Frank is soooooo on the money with what he said. Lets all just keep supporting our vendors !!!! Mario

Spiffav8

01-14-2009, 06:30 PM

Tyler and ATS have been with me since day one! Yeah I have a few DSE parts on my car but I was directed to them by Tyler. He has never given me bad advice. I know I've paid more in some areas, but over all I saved a ton of cash on my upgrades. More importantly I have a dedicated team to back me up every step of the way. Put a price on that!

Vendors work hard to earn a good reputation. It's important that we all keep in mind the reputation we build with them. That guy on the other end of the phone will be happy to help you once or twice, but when he see's that your taking your business elsewhere just to save a few dollars that will end quickly.

I am a firm believer is supporting our vendors...especially if they are local. To few places to get all the cool parts we all want. Seeing them go under makes it harder on all of us.

:captain:

DRJDVM's '69

01-14-2009, 08:48 PM

My build is a prime example of what Rodger said....

I talked to him and some other guys on here about doing my car. I shopped around a fair amount. I tried to balance price and someone I thought I could trust....and I think many of you know how that all turned out :( Big big mistake....

Now in total, I'm spending more than I would have originally had to spend to have the car done right the first time. Plus its delayed my project considerably. Its in great hands now, but its taken alot to get it to the stage its in now. Thank you Bruning Auto Design....

Rodger is a perfect example to me. I should have listened to him the first time. He's also been helping me alot in the last 2 weeks trying to get some questions answered by Procharger. He's answered a ton of emails from me without hesitation and has been putting in alot of effort to try and get the needed info from Procharger. When/if I do decided to go with a Procharger, I will send my business to Rodger.

He's been great.....and all despite the fact that I missed like 10 of his phone calls on his way to my house and got him lost in Manteca with his huge trailer, and on the "second round" of my car, I didnt choose his shop.

Can I get the stuff cheaper somewhere else?.....maybe....but what he has done for me cant be matched by some faceless internet site. Its worth the confidence I have in him and the help he has given me.

MuscleRodz has also helped me out with my project after the "disaster".....I will be ordering somer parts from him soon too....can I get them cheaper somwhere else ? Maybe......but once again, what he has done for me cant be matched by saving a few $$

I'll also be brave enough to admit it......I've been a shopper (and maybe a little bit of a grinder, but I hope not too bad if at all) on lots of stuff over the years. I have expensive taste and a tight budget. Some of the time it works out okay and other times its come back to haunt me later. Some of the time its allowed me to do stuff with my car that I wouldnt be able to do otherwise. Othertimes it ends up preventing me from doing other stuff on the car because I made a bad choice.

For all the guys on here that have helped me over the years, whether I bought from you or not....THANK YOU.....

ccracin

01-15-2009, 05:39 AM

First let me say I agree completely with the sentiment here. This community is something unique and is great to be a part of. The excellent service and support from the members and vendors here are a large part of what makes the Lateral-G community great.

I do have a counter point that I think is a part of the reason you see the grinders etc........ In the normal world outside our hobby, it has been my experience that the kind of service and support you get from the vendors here is very hard to come by. I am forever navigating automated answering system menus etc. trying to get normal everyday customer service issues taken care. Alot of the time it takes 2-3 calls to speak to someone human. Then after you get a human, you have to navigate through multiple levels of idiocy before you get to someone that can help. This type of thing happens with the phone companies, cable companies, and for most consumer products you buy on a daily basis. It is therefore my opinion that when a person deals with this day in and day out, it becomes a matter of getting what you can for the least amount of money because frankly, a majority of the time great customer service and support are not there. I think it then becomes difficult for people to give the benefit of the doubt and automatically search for the least expensive product.

All that being said, it is for those reasons that this site and it's vendors are special. Let's face it not all vendors in this hobby are as good as the one's on this site. As people realize that it becomes a breathe of fresh air that makes these builds even more satisfying. When we started our project, alot of vendors on this site were very willing to give me information without the promise of spending a dollar. When we did start to buy parts, the first vendor we used was PRRC from this site. All I can say is what a pleasure to deal with. Our project has been on hold for about a year or so now due to some personal family issues. Those issues are almost resolved and we will be back online soon. When we are PRRC and other site vendors will be our source of supply!

I just wish the attitude and mentality of the people on this site would spread to the rest of the world and maybe this country wouldn't be in the shape that it's in. :lateral:

DRJDVM's '69

01-15-2009, 09:27 AM

Chad has some excellent points too. I couldnt agree more.

As a whole, many consumers have developed a mentality of discount prices, 50% sales, buy one get one free, free shipping, online promotions, coupons, we'll beat anyone's price, ebay auctions etc etc. Everyone is looking for a bargain on everything. Can you blame them ?? That stuff is everywhere.....we all get bombarded by it every day.

I see it in veterinary medicine every day. We get dozens of calls shopping on vaccine prices and prices for the exam or spay/neuter surgeries etc etc. We do our best to describe what they get for their $$ and why we are more expensive, but the best value because we do the best job.

If you've never went to a different store because you found the same item cheaper....you're either the tiny minority or a liar. We've all done it.

Customer service has become the secondary factor, not the primary for the majority of consumers out there. Thats why you get more automated phone customer service and fewer people to directly talk to..... people want stuff cheap and they cant have the best of both worlds. The company can offer the product cheaper if they have less overhead. That spills into the car business too.

The real issue of this thread....at least I think so.....is don't take up alot of extra time and effort from the business by asking tons of questions and taking advantage of their customer service and then go buy the same item somewhere else just because its alittle cheaper. Thats just wrong.

Vegas69

01-15-2009, 09:32 AM

At the end of the day it's business and most people won't change. Good thread through.:D

DriverzInc

01-15-2009, 11:41 AM

At the end of the day it's business and most people won't change. Good thread through.:D

Yes, and its very sad though, is it not? Lets just hope that the eyes of a few are opened by the thread and keep it positive.

Vegas69

01-15-2009, 11:57 AM

I hope so...I find the good outway the bad in my business handily. However, certain personality types are just that. I know some people don't deserve much of my time while others are sincere. I use contracts for exclusive relationships and I know some people will never sign em so I treat them that way. It seems to me they usually get whats coming to them. In your business they get wheels with the wrong backspacing or get ripped off by another vendor. In mine they get misrepresented and overpay for a piece of property.

Mick Mc

01-15-2009, 05:54 PM

The real issue of this thread....at least I think so.....is don't take up alot of extra time and effort from the business by asking tons of questions and taking advantage of their customer service and then go buy the same item somewhere else just because its alittle cheaper. Thats just wrong.

Yea, what he said...

Yes, yes, yes. If you have called and emailed a bunch of times, taken up alot of time and THEN you buy it somewhere else, You're a DOG. If you bought it somewhere else over few dollars, double DOG (you'll get what's comming to you)

But...

I have called and emailed many a company and got the cold shoulder, the talking down to me like I don't know anything, the short answer 'no we don't have none', the put me on hold twenty times, the one or two word answer to an email. They just push my wallet away like my money is not good enough (or big enough).
I wanted to like their company, I liked their logo, I liked their ad compaign, I even like their display car, but when I met someone from their shop, office, booth, they pushed me away like a bum. OK maybe they were tired, hungary, fed up, but the message got was We don't EVER want any of your money or your friends, go away, we're rich enough.

AND
Everyone shops for price. The parking lot of Harbor Freight is packed and so is Walmart. If I can't see (or be sold) the value of a Snap-On angle die grinder why would I pay the price. Twenty dollars at Harbor Freight and one seventy five at Snap-ON.

Most of the vendors on this board are trying to add value everyday. Why, because none of them are the low cost leader. If they can show value then they can justify the price.

In the absence of value, price is the only thing to measure and therefore people will shop for the lowest price (the only thing to measure).

Loyality is very important today, but how many times have you purchased something as a loyal consumer and taken it back because something happened and low and behold, its not covered, its not our fault, it's something else or the company is just plain gone.

Yes, I was loyal to Tyler, to the point I even wanted to buy Alcon's for my next project. I wanted to support him in anyway I could. I think loyality is one of the most important traits of humans, but many a companies have taken our loyality and crushed it into bonemeal (insert any one of a hundred major companies that have gone out of business in the past few years).((I'm not referring to Tyler here))

Please treat the vendors fair. Don't burn up all of their efforts if you are just going to buy the product somewhere else. Don't be that guy, every one will find out who you are. This is a small community and we all have email and cell phones and drink beer together at SEMA and Columbus and GoodGuys etc.
Vendors, remember if you add value, you can avoid the lowest price comparison.
Vendors, sometimes the guy stabbing you in the back is not the customer, but the manufacture. Many times the customer can call the manufacture direct and buy the product and sometimes at a discount too. If I can buy a cool wiper motor from DSE or from you at the same price, Whats the difference? Loyality I think. And your value added.

jumping off of my soapbox and getting a beer...

Mick

Bad94

01-15-2009, 06:40 PM

I have bought parts for Frank and wheels from Jon. Both have been a ton of help.

Frank has to be the best phone tech person i have ever got to talk to. If hes busy, he will stop what hes doing and help you. Him and i had a little outing few months back, but we worked everything out. Frank is a stand up guy.

Jon, why cant you be closer to Cincinnati. Killer cars running around that need some new wheels.

Flash68

01-15-2009, 10:22 PM

^^ Great post Mick

Mick Mc

01-17-2009, 08:51 PM

Thanks Flash68...I sent Pelosi a nasty email the other day...

Mick

72 RS/SS

01-18-2009, 10:14 AM

I for one am the little guy who needs to rely on the experience of others in their respective fields. Seems we are all on a budget these days but the technical information is worth much more than the $$ to me.

Just to name a few, CC5S was a tremendous help when swapping my 4spd. for a Tremec 5 spd. - their customer service is outstanding by the way. And when I needed info on wheels & tires, Jon @ Driverzinc took the time to help me make the right choice and I reciprocated by buying from him. I've bought from Musclerodz as well after seeking advice on lighting. And I will buy my Wilwood brakes from Prodigy very soon based conversations we had and his solid, working knowledge of real world parts.

No, I don't build high-end SEMA cars (just a hobbyist) but I do spend money and when I do, I try to do it wisely. The wise part comes from relying on these guys that are sponsors here that have been there, done that. Without them I would probably waste more money buying parts that either don't fit or perform as expected. Customer support is vital to the success of a business and unfortunately some companies just don't get it. I've seen nothing but the best from the vendors on this site and will continue to use them, while my passion (sickness) of modifying my car continues to dominate me.

So for the record, I sincerely value your wisdom and experience and thank you all for your help, past and future.

Blown353

01-18-2009, 10:05 PM

Thanks Flash68...I sent Pelosi a nasty email the other day...

Is there any other kind of email you could send that woman? :lol:

Rybar

01-19-2009, 12:36 PM

Yes, yes, yes. If you have called and emailed a bunch of times, taken up alot of time and THEN you buy it somewhere else, You're a DOG. If you bought it somewhere else over few dollars, double DOG (you'll get what's comming to you)

Great line, and I agree 100% :lol:

Jar

01-19-2009, 02:22 PM

I get what everyone is saying here, and if anybody is going to solicit help from a vendor, they better be planning on using that vendor. At the same time though, not everyone here has the kind of money to throw into a hobby that some of you have. While I wish I could devote enough money to my camaro project to buy all top of the line products from the great companies represented here. Because of this I have to take a pretty budget approach to it and I plan on stretching my project over many years and only doing a project at a time. I do plan on saving money before each project to get some quality parts from some of these great supporting vendors, but I can't afford to build my car using only top of the line products, so as much as it hurts me, I have to pick and choose, some things are going to have to come from ebay or Summit. I do fully agree though, if you are asking for help and taking away valuable time from one of these vendors, you better have plans on buying their products, that's just rude.

Best of luck to all of you and thank you for what you are doing for this hobby. I hope to pay some of you back over then next 20 or so years, piece by piece.