Need some opinons, Project Prodigy?

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK, I need opinions. Long story short, the motor we were going to run in Prodigy was an old motor I had. It never really ran right, so we tore it down. Upon tear down we found some bad news in the block, cylinder wall taper. The rotating assembly is perfect and new, so we are getting a new block. A Bill Mitchell Aluminum block!

So now we have a 11th hour decision. We can build the motor NA, no ProCharger, and save 225lbs off the nose and a lot of fabrication issues. I could build it 700HP easy and put some laughing gas on it and easily see 1000HP, or ProCharger it and see the same 1000HP.

Either way it will be fuel injected and all aluminum. My dilemma is it really seems to be a high end PT car, it really needs to be Forced induction. But I hate the bad weight of the intercooler hanging in front of the radiator, that's horrible weight, and the ProCharger hangs off the front of the head, more bad weight. So losing the 225 off the nose will go a LONG ways towards better weight balance. The ProCharger is about 80LBS.

Realistically, 700HP would be PLENTY, but in a world full of 1000HP cars, it needs to have it. Nitrous is no problem for us, very familiar with it, I can get a fogger for it easy. But does it belong on a PT Car?
It really was not even a consideration until we ran into the aluminum block deal, and the chance to ditch the extra weight. It will weigh less then an iron / aluminum head small block. Plus Nitrous puts 30LBS in the trunk to help even more balancing things.

So please vote, and I would really appreciate it if I got some comments from everyone, especially some of you that play with higher end PT cars, you know who you are. I do not want to kill the wow appeal, or value, even though it is not for sale. It still matters.

Just so you remember. Prodigy is full framed 67 RS / SS Convertible, C4 suspension, Double adjustable QA1s, 14" 6 piston Wilwoods all around, 12" wide 295 / 30 / 19s up front, 14" wide 345 / 25 / 20s out back, TKO 600, 500" all aluminum big block, four C5 buckets, Leather, custom one off dash, full console, power everything, video, navigation, etc. It is really a everything car. So I do not want to cheat it. Also, we do plan to enter it is exhibition of speed events, so it needs to work.

[Derek69SS]

I voted "pro-charge" it :)

As you said "wow appeal" is big on a supercharger, and many people think of nitrous as "cheating". Superchargers look damn impressive, and you'll never have to fill a bottle.

Why not both??? :willy:

[camcojb]

I also vote supercharger, but ideally for the "wow" factor and to be current it'd be a turbo. Of course a custom turbo install and "11th hour" do not play well together! :D


Jody

[ProdigyCustoms]

Yeah, I already mocked up for the ProCharger. Turbos are out of the question for this one.

[clill]

Going the Procharged route would be similar to the Yellow Camaro that Jody built. I made 828rwhp with it but it was not a car for Power Tour with that kind of hp. You would have had to really pay attention to your gas pedal foot because that Procharger is making power and noise all the time. Turbo's make nothing unless you put your foot into it. Both add tons of weight to the front end. If it were my car I would build it NA to 700 hp and have a awsome car that would be very drivable and do everything you wanted it to do. The Mule is really neat but it is also really crowded and complicated under the hood now. I am redoing the Red Witch and it will remain NA, simple and more than enough fun. I see no need for you to add Nitrous unless you want to enter some event and really make some hp.

[68protouring454]

i am going with clill, build it n/a to 700 hp and have a kick ass car, i really don't think you need to worry as the car has killer appeal, and twins are about as usefull as used tp.
listen to the man who has about one of each car, and he says over and over how the the n/a red witch is his most drivable and fun car.
700hp, n/a and be done

[radrambler]

my opinion...
i would build the motor & spray it if youd like .....if you want everyone to be blown away with the underhood appearance , i would spend the time and make it ultra smooth and hide most everything and detailed ...
700 hp is nothing to laugh at.....
so i say use the time in the engine compartment being simple but creative and make the quality of the car stand out in the engine compartment..NOT SOME PART HANGING OFF THE MOTOR..
TROY DOES IT ALL THE TIME !!!! EVERYONE LOVES WHAT COMES OUT OF HIS SHOP.!! I DO ANYWAY!!

THATS MY 2 CENTS
RADRAMBLER

[race-rodz]

i personally cant see "needing" more than 700hp in a street car unless its all about braggin rights. simple and clean NA would also be my choice, afterall a 700hp all alum bigblock is exotic enough for the "wow" factor.

superchargers are great, but with all the factory installed blower cars out there, the wow appeal of a blower is kinda gone.

NO2 really doesnt have the wow appeal either in my book, its use is more geared towards drag racing. with the prodogy camaro, i would think the NA700hp alone would make the car faster than safety rules will allow the car to go(full cage), so it seem pointless to add juice to it.

i really wish the "trends" would move towards function over "wow" factor, 1000-1200hp pro-touring cars are deffinatly cool, but its seems the only reason for the big power numbers is braggin rights...cuz the cars arent capable of using ALL of the big power on a track. if you could get the car to handle all of the 700NA hp... i would bet it would blow away alot of the more powerfull cars both drag racing, road racing, and money spent on tires in a year.

this is all just my worthless opinion.... do what YOU wanna do... thats what this hobby is all about.

[Musclerodz]

I am with Charley on this one too.

Mike

[evilzee28]

Hi Frank, I think that your projected 700hp will satisfy your drivng needs fully. I used to own a street legal, 660 hp,N/A, no nitrous, 468 cu in '55 Chevy that'd run mid tens. Initially it was good fun, but truth be known it was a camel to drive, it would loose traction at the slightest throttle response & had difficulty getting the power down on street treads & soon became tiresome.Boy was that interesting in the slightest of damp conditions !!!!!! However, that was in a car with the aerodynamics of a shed & the handling of a pudding, put that power into a properly set up car & it'd no doubt be a different ball game. Not being disrespectful to the guys with 800+ hp,TT/Procharged cars, but they will RARELY see their full potential & will over power ALL roads on road tyres, which will take the fun out of driving your car, "'bin there done that".(just as Charlie says & he should know after all :yes: ) A fully smoothed,detailed engine/bay will impress your peers just as much & the "grin" factor will stay with you a long time :unibrow:

As to the nitrous, that's more pro-street than pro-touring in my opinion. P/T follows the inspirations of circuit inspired cars & how many of them run "squeeze"....Uuuuuuuuuh, .....that'd be none then :thumbsup:

[ProdigyCustoms]

The spray will be for the dragstrip. Of coarse we do not need this on a road coarse or the street, but for real street eliminator, we would like to post a number. Keep in mind Michael has been drag racing a 900HP car since his 15th B Day, so it will take something to excite him at the track.

Seein as I got the thumbs up from Charlie, it's probably no blower, but I am still listening. I need to build it to Charlies specs, Charlie may buy it some day, he buys everything else.

[clill]

I need to go back on my "No car diet". My wish list has a Lamborghini Muira on it but too much money unless I sell something.
On a lighter note.. I was driving the Mule to lunch today and at about 50-60 in 3rd gear the rear end started trying to catch up with the front end. If I were in my teen years I would probably be in the ditch from lack of lifting foot off gas pedal... :willy:

[race-rodz]

I need to build it to Charlies specs, Charlie may buy it some day, he buys everything else.


on that note.... how tall are ya charlie... and what kinda old school lookin logo would ya like on the doors of the 34 race rod :D


im curious as to the tire choice for RSE drag testing, i "guess" with a progressive shot, NO2 might be doable.... IF it will hook. what the car got for a trans? powershifting 700hp and hittin the go juice in a car that barley hooks could be about 6 handfulls..... in other words...sounds like lots of fun.

[Canadian_Hot_Rodder]

Well, since you saved yourself what, about 100-125lbs off the front end from that aluminum block you may as well slap on a ProCharger, eh? Hah, that was my vote. But all in all the way I would do it is turn that 500 incher into a 540 and N/A it. Properly built, you could get 750 HP out of it. That is nothing to snuff at and for street driving would be MORE than enough. If you still felt the need for more power than nitrous would still be doable. Less weight than the ProCharger/intercooler, less expensive (by alot) and would help just a little bit with weight issues with the bottle in the trunk. Just my $0.02! Good luck!!! :thumbsup:

[ProdigyCustoms]

It's a TKO, the squeeze would be in 3rd and 4th, no way it could handle it on launch. It will be one of those cars that runs 9.90 but 150MPH +, LOL! It WILL get drag raced much more then it will hit road coarses just because there are none here that do track days. At the dragstrip to avoid saftey requirments, we will run No Times and use the onboard timer. If the track does not see a time, that can't refuse it for NHRA tech reasons.

I do think with better balance it will do better on slalom, autocross and road coarse, and who needs more then 700 on the road coarse? To be honest, we would not drive it at top speed anyway. Like Charlie said somewhere else, the Mule would need some aero work to be driven flat out. If I want to drive 200, I will get a ZO6.

So even though it is a G machine, the extra 300 from the blower or juice is for the dragstrip. Or to be damn sure we cover that 06 ZO6 beside us at the stoplight!

[4mm]

So even though it is a G machine, the extra 300 from the blower or juice is for the dragstrip. Or to be damn sure we cover that 06 ZO6 beside us at the stoplight![/QUOTE]


Exactly, imagine churning past the Z06 while burning the tires in 3rd or 4th just for kicks! :bow:

[evilzee28]

So even though it is a G machine, the extra 300 from the blower or juice is for the dragstrip. Or to be damn sure we cover that 06 ZO6 beside us at the stoplight!


Exactly, imagine churning past the Z06 while burning the tires in 3rd or 4th just for kicks! :bow:[/QUOTE]

No doubt an extra 300hp on top of an engine already making 700 would make you feel as if the whole world was in reverse when you accelerate, but lets get real here, a fully sorted car with good suspension & brakes with a moderate 5oo-700 hp would waste a street car, on street tyres, making 900-1000hp on a winding twisty, track !! if you've ever driven a car with excessive horsepower you'll know that as soon as you touch the go pedal, the rear end will break loose, & try & bite you. The lower horsepower car will be able to accelerate out of corners far quicker than the higher horsepower car & will be more controlable under acceleration.The high hp car will only come into its own if theres a loooong straight between corners. Just try feathering the throttle on a mega hp car in the middle of a bend & try not to let it change ends :willy: with a lower hp car you can do that. As to the "churning past a Z06 with the wheels churning", sorry, but if your wheels are churning, you ain't going forward as fast as you should lol.

Yeah, so 1000hp is cool, but in the real world cars are for driving & mega hp cars are really unable to cut it in the modern world, a world with other road users, speed cops & speed cameras, admittedly they look awesome, but unfortunately we're back to the bragging rights thing again & in doing that you'll lose the fun of driving your car, high hp cars are a pain in the arse to use on our congested roads & unfortunately track time is too little to allow them to be used to their full potential.Even 700hp is too much for road use (that'll stir things up huh???)

A friend of mine has a 500+hp 460cu in Mustang that runs very low 11's in FULL street trim, he's a very good driver & races in historic road racing. He races against E-type Jags, Lotus Elans, Triumph TR4's, TVR's etc etc. ALL of those cars have much lower horsepower, probably 150-200hp max, but they still give him a hard time, sure he can power away in the straights, but they murder him in the corners ( his car is FULLY set up for racing with very good suspension, brakes, Yokohama 032 tryres,etc). So over the distance of a lap there really is very little in it performance wise, with him finishing in the top 10 most races. What car wins most often...........the little 4 cylinder Lotus Elans!! Now you'd think a 500+ hp car would trounce a little o'le Lotus, but not under race circumstances.He has major problems getting the power down through road tyres, at the end of the day, tyres are the great equaliser.
I think keep the hp sensible & you'll enjoy driving the car far more.

Oh yeah, please take the above as it's intended with tongue firmly stuck in cheek lol

I guess I shoulda used that as a debate, as it's possible to stir up a hornets nest huh? :thumbsup:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Evil, Ask Jeff about my 900HP driver. he's got plenty of hours cruising in it. It will go anywhere. Granted it is not a g machine, it's a 10" ET Street tire car. But no problems with street manners, except it hates corners, LOL!. It does use a bit of petrol though.

[evilzee28]

Evil, Ask Jeff about my 900HP driver. he's got plenty of hours cruising in it. It will go anywhere. Granted it is not a g machine, it's a 10" ET Street tire car. But no problems with street manners, except it hates corners, LOL!. It does use a bit of petrol though.

know the feeling, my '55 used to average 4mpg cruising at 55mph, put your foot in it & you needed a fuel tanker to follow you lol. I managed to use a full tank of gas (16 gall) in 8 miles, that sure took the fun out of it at the prices we pay for fuel. I just found driving it really tiresome after a while, especially on a long trip. My posting wasn't there to disrespect the guys with big horsepower cars, nor to put people off building them, hell I just love them, but more to bring out some home truths, as you know I race my cars in historic circuit racing & would clock up more track time than most. My cars are driven to & from the track sometimes it's a 500 mile round trip & it'll race for 15 minutes to qualify & up to 30 minutes per race, so I guess my cars are "pro race" lol. They have to be true street drivers, but do get terribly abused when racing. It's a PT thing, but with the emphasis on racing. :unibrow:

[69MyWay]

It is only natural to become super natural since you dropped the weight with the all aluminum block, you should balance that out with the blower mounted on the head. Really, it makes sense.

You get the "wow" factor under the hood
You get the schweet blower sound when you nail the throttle and bang the gears
You get the added bragging rights
You get the extra power, all the time.

You know you want it...now hurry up and get it on there!

[Payton King]

I think it was last year that a blue Z06 won the One lap of America race. the car had a 427 LS1 with spray. I believe it(spray) was used on the drag portions, top end runs and maybe long staights on the road coarse.

To your question...NA with spray and a progressive controller. I am thinking 700 is going to be plenty for all of the above reasons and you car is going to have the "Wow" factor from the way you are building it.

[Ricochet]

Realistically, 700HP would be PLENTY, but in a world full of 1000HP cars, it needs to have it.

Frank-

Since asked for an opinion.. You said in a world of 1000 hp cars, it needs to have it. Well, your car is so out of the ordinary & ahead in so many other areas I wouldn't worry about it, besides when will you ever be able to use it all? The car will handle so much better w/out the extra weight up front, not to mention how much cleaner it will look. Not sure what kind of intake you are using, but a fabbed Sheet Metal Intake would look killer. But then again I'm kinda partial to them. :D Either way..The car is amazing & can't wait to see at SEMA.

Brent

[ProdigyCustoms]

Done deal. it will be a All Aluminum 540, N/A motor. Should be 750HP no problem, maybe more depending on how nice the heads come out. Still trying to work out the nitrous, but even without, it will be awesome.

Thanks for the opinions and compliments. Let's see if it can live up to the hype.

[Canadian_Hot_Rodder]

Sounds awesome to me. You won't be sorry with that choice. Throw on some AFR 335 CNC'd heads and AWAY you go!! Those should be able to feed that sucker.