Reading the Harmonic Balancer

[thedugan]

Need help understanding where TDC is on the balancer.

Don't know why I'm confused but I am. The white line at 0 to me is TDC.

What is that second white line for?

Cranked the motor over so I know its on the compression stroke but need to turn the crank to true TDC

[Vegas69]

90 degrees....The compression stroke is right after the intake valve opens. After the intake valve opens and closes when you get to zero that is when you stab the distributor.

[thedugan]

Thanks man so what your saying is bring the pointer to the "lonely" white line and then I'm ready for the distributor.

I'm trying to avoid taking the valve cover off. I gotta remove the procharger and the wiper motor first which isn't the end of the world but Id rather not have to unless its the last resort.

[camcojb]

Thanks man so what your saying is bring the pointer to the "lonely" white line and then I'm ready for the distributor.

I'm trying to avoid taking the valve cover off. I gotta remove the procharger and the wiper motor first which isn't the end of the world but Id rather not have to unless its the last resort.

the "lonely" white line is not TDC and not where you want to be to drop in the distributor. The white line at the mark "0" is TDC, but not necessarily ready for the distributor to drop in either.

Pull the #1 plug, plug the spark plug hole with your finger and slowly turn the engine over by hand until you feel/hear compression push past your finger. You should be approaching the tdc line with the "0". I like to stop at say 16 degrees before tdc (or whatever idle timing you want to run). Drop in the dist with the rotor pointing towards the #1 plug terminal. Turn the key to "on" (don't crank) and attach the #1 plug wire to the spark plug, and ground the plug terminal onto something metal. With the key on slowly turn the distributor until the plug fires, and lock the distributor down at that position. Re-install the #1 plug and wire and the engine should be ready to fire.

Jody

[thedugan]

Thanks Jody.

I'm running the Accel Dual Sync so wish me luck.

Phasing the rotor now

[thedugan]

When I read thru the Accel Dual-sync instructions it wants you to bring it to TDC then phase the distributor for the cam and crank LED's. Then lock it

Then turn the motor to 23-30 BTDC and then phase the rotor. If I follow these instructions then how the heck do you turn the motor backwards? I turn the motor on the balancer bolt so if I turn it backwards the bolt would back out? Like before I'm missing something here? confused. Help.
Jegs and summit sell the Proform tool that would work but there must be simpler way. I cannot get to the flywheel to turn it, the scattershield is in the way.

[camcojb]

When I read thru the Accel Dual-sync instructions it wants you to bring it to TDC then phase the distributor for the cam and crank LED's. Then lock it

Then turn the motor to 23-30 BTDC and then phase the rotor. If I follow these instructions then how the heck do you turn the motor backwards? I turn the motor on the balancer bolt so if I turn it backwards the bolt would back out? Like before I'm missing something here? confused. Help.
Jegs and summit sell the Proform tool that would work but there must be simpler way. I cannot get to the flywheel to turn it, the scattershield is in the way.

my instructions were for general distributor installs. To turn the engine backwards remove the plugs. If the harmonic balancer bolt is properly torqued it should not loosen without plugs.

Jody

[thedugan]

Thanks Jody that took care of that.

Car does not want to start so gotta start troubleshooting the issue.

Have 17 pounds of pressure at the fuel rail gauge. Why so low:question:

Car does start and then dies when I spray some starter fluid in the throttle body. Car then dies in seconds.

Gotta go feed the kiddies and then get them ready for bed so guess I gotta wait till Saturday to get back on it. Ill figure it out this weekend. so close.

[camcojb]

Thanks Jody that took care of that.

Car does not want to start so gotta start troubleshooting the issue.

Have 17 pounds of pressure at the fuel rail gauge. Why so low:question:

Car does start and then dies when I spray some starter fluid in the throttle body. Car then dies in seconds.

Gotta go feed the kiddies and then get them ready for bed so guess I gotta wait till Saturday to get back on it. Ill figure it out this weekend. so close.

it won't run with that low of pressure, so that's the first thing to figure out.

Jody

[thedugan]

Jody I'm running the aeromotive bypass regulator near the tank. PN 13101.
Return from the bypass back to the tank.
Im going to put a gauge on it to see what kind of pressure I get back there.

On the front of the motor I have the fuel lines coming in to the back of the motor and the front of the rails is capped.

So a returnless system

Ill get out there in the AM and start checking it out

[V8TV]

the "lonely" white line is not TDC and not where you want to be to drop in the distributor. The white line at the mark "0" is TDC, but not necessarily ready for the distributor to drop in either.

Pull the #1 plug, plug the spark plug hole with your finger and slowly turn the engine over by hand until you feel/hear compression push past your finger. You should be approaching the tdc line with the "0". I like to stop at say 16 degrees before tdc (or whatever idle timing you want to run). Drop in the dist with the rotor pointing towards the #1 plug terminal. Turn the key to "on" (don't crank) and attach the #1 plug wire to the spark plug, and ground the plug terminal onto something metal. With the key on slowly turn the distributor until the plug fires, and lock the distributor down at that position. Re-install the #1 plug and wire and the engine should be ready to fire.

Jody

Good trick, Jody!

[thedugan]

So reading about the regulator I have it comes from the factory set at 43psi so I'm ruling out checking on that.

I'm going to doublecheck the fuel filter flow and its rate but I'm guessing thats okay.

The fuel cooler I know was backwards and that was fixed.

I guess the gauge could be bad so Ill swap that out with a spare.

There could be air in the lines, would that effect it?

Im also going to start from scratch and make sure there is enough gas in the tank. I put 4 gallons in so it should be fine.

Gotta go do some errands, and help the wife get the christmas stuff out. So later today Ill get in the garage.

Not sure what else could be killing the fuel pressure but if anyone has any ideas let me know. 17 when it should be 43 is a problem

[camcojb]

So reading about the regulator I have it comes from the factory set at 43psi so I'm ruling out checking on that.

I'm going to doublecheck the fuel filter flow and its rate but I'm guessing thats okay.

The fuel cooler I know was backwards and that was fixed.

I guess the gauge could be bad so Ill swap that out with a spare.

There could be air in the lines, would that effect it?

Im also going to start from scratch and make sure there is enough gas in the tank. I put 4 gallons in so it should be fine.

Gotta go do some errands, and help the wife get the christmas stuff out. So later today Ill get in the garage.

Not sure what else could be killing the fuel pressure but if anyone has any ideas let me know. 17 when it should be 43 is a problem


if it's dead-headed there will be some air to bleed out but it should still show the proper pressure and it should still start. It may die a couple times briefly, but that's about it. You can also crack the line/fittings at the far end of the fuel rail and bleed the air out that way with the pump running; I've always just fired it up, let it die maybe once or twice briefly and then it's done.

Never trust the factory adjustments, the first thing to check is that adjustment. Loosen the locknut and screw the allen stud clockwise into the regulator which should raise the fuel pressure. Hopefully all that's wrong is that it is set too far out from the factory.

If adjusting it down doesn't raise the fuel pressure then you'll have to look elsewhere. After re-reading your description it's also possible that the pressure gauge is defective and your dieing is just the bleeding of the air out of the system, or you need to do some tuning to get it to idle (proper fuel map numbers, minimum throttle blade opening is too low, etc).

Jody

[thedugan]

Jody was right. Dont trust the factory
Problem #1 fixed. Regulator adjusted and fuel pressure is now at 40 psi.

Still wont start so there is still another issue. No errors on the ECM so thats good. The tune that Accel gave me should be good for startup so gotta start checking everything out.

I bought my intake and throttle body used so I'm wondering if any of the TB sensors are bad. I never replaced them but now I'm wishing I did.

The other thing could be the forced timing could be off. I hope I dont have to go thru pulling the dist and going back thru the whole TDC thing again.

[camcojb]

Jody was right. Dont trust the factory
Problem #1 fixed. Regulator adjusted and fuel pressure is now at 40 psi.

Still wont start so there is still another issue. No errors on the ECM so thats good. The tune that Accel gave me should be good for startup so gotta start checking everything out.

I bought my intake and throttle body used so I'm wondering if any of the TB sensors are bad. I never replaced them but now I'm wishing I did.

The other thing could be the forced timing could be off. I hope I dont have to go thru pulling the dist and going back thru the whole TDC thing again.

cool, progress. :thumbsup: As far as the sensors, you do have tuning software I hope?? TPS should show as a %. With the key on and not touching the throttle it should show as a low %, and should evenly increase as you push the throttle pedal. The map should show around 100 kpa or so without running and key on, depending on your altitude. Go through your config settings again and make sure you've entered the correct map, tps % for idle, injector size, ignition type, etc.

Does your voltage drop much when cranking? Ideally it will stay near 12 volts, if it's below 11 or so it can throw a lot of stuff off making it hard to fire.

Jody

[thedugan]

Jody, thanks for all the help.

I have the Gen7 software and am online with the ECM while I crank it.

Yes it drops down to 7.97 when cranking.

Running back out with the wife so will be back on later today.

[camcojb]

I'm downloading the Gen VII software now, so hopefully I can take a look at your tune and see if I see anything out of the ordinary. I may even have an old tune from a Procharged 406 in my old laptop, I'll take a look.

[camcojb]

Jody, thanks for all the help.

I have the Gen7 software and am online with the ECM while I crank it.

Yes it drops down to 7.97 when cranking.

Running back out with the wife so will be back on later today.

yeah, that won't work. You do have all the main power wires for the computer hooked directly to battery, right?

[thedugan]

I'm. downloading the Gen VII software now, so hopefully I can take a look at your tune and see if I see anything out of the. ordinary. I may even have an old tune from a Procharged 406 in my old laptop, I'll take a look.

Yes ecm is wired back to the trunk battery. Power and ground was extended to the trunk. And wired direct to battery. When I get home I can email u my tune. When I get home.
.I'm gonna put the battery on the charger and give it a full charge too.

[camcojb]

Yes ecm is wired back to the trunk battery. Power and ground was extended to the trunk. And wired direct to battery. When I get home I can email u my tune. When I get home.
.I'm gonna put the battery on the charger and give it a full charge too.

cool, I have the software up and running. Also include injector size.

[thedugan]

We have ignition. Motor is running. Jodys mapping changes fixed it.

Got an oil pressure gauge issue to figure out before I start it again. Hope its just the gauge wiring. Wish me luck

One step forward one step backward. that should be the name of the car.

[camcojb]

We have ignition. Motor is running. Jodys mapping changes fixed it.

Got an oil pressure gauge issue to figure out before I start it again. Hope its just the gauge wiring. Wish me luck

One step forward one step backward. that should be the name of the car.

congrats man, glad to help. Now you can start really having fun......... :thumbsup: I'm guessing the oil pressure is a simple wiring or sender issue, you had pressure when you primed it with another gauge. Happy hunting............. :yes:

Jody

[thedugan]

I'm running an adjustable collar distributor, lets hope its adjusted right and all the way in and on the oil pump pickup. I think it is based on how it was to drop in the dist. But ya never know. I had compared it to another one I had around here but its been awhile and I cant remember if I ever adjusted it.
Its killing me so I might have to sneak out into the garage in a bit and check it out.

[thedugan]

As I worried. Oil sender wire is correct. I had oil pressure when I primed the motor. So something is up. Ugh

Gotta pull the distributor and see what's going on.

So gotta pull all the plugs again. Turn the motor to compression stroke and get it to TDC. Prime the motor and see what reading we get. Then re phase the distributor and rotor again.

or Ill mark the distributor and verify the collar setting and hope I can put it back in and fix the issue and keep the distributor synced.

[camcojb]

As I worried. Oil sender wire is correct. I had oil pressure when I primed the motor. So something is up. Ugh

Gotta pull the distributor and see what's going on.

So gotta pull all the plugs again. Turn the motor to compression stroke and get it to TDC. Prime the motor and see what reading we get. Then re phase the distributor and rotor again.

or Ill mark the distributor and verify the collar setting and hope I can put it back in and fix the issue and keep the distributor synced.


when I adjust the slip collar distributors I adjust them without a gasket. Make sure they're all the way down with the drive in the oil pump, slide the collar down till it just meets the intake and then lock the collar down. That way when you add the gasket back in you have the free play needed so it's not bound up.

It sounds like possibly you didn't get the shaft engaged with the oil pump drive when you set the collar. Simple mistake, easy fix.

Jody

[thedugan]

Distributor is marked and pulled

Collar is not right so I have to adjusted it

Re-priming the motor and the gauge works so its the collar.

Lets up hope I can line up the distributor and just drop it back in.

[thedugan]

So far its not lining up with my mark. Gotta keep messing with the oil pump shaft
oh what fun. Its off by an 1/8inch.

[awr68]

Great thread guys! Lots of good info! Thanks for leaving it here and not going to email with this!

Good luck with the restart today!! :cheers:

[thedugan]

Well it doesn't like the mark I made so

back to pulling the plugs, pulling the wires, hanking the dist, unhooking the hidden crank trigger wire, and bringing it to TDC

the good news is I dont need to read the instructions from Accel on how to phase the dist and rotor. can do it in my sleep now

[thedugan]

we have ignition and oil pressure.

Runs a bit rough but gotta dial in the timing.

gotta get a helper over here Tue night for breakin.

[camcojb]

we have ignition and oil pressure.

Runs a bit rough but gotta dial in the timing.

gotta get a helper over here Tue night for breakin.

:thumbsup:

Jody

[thedugan]

Well I am so happy. Started it up today and let it run for awhile and it runs great. Synced up the timing fixed some small problems but so far so good.
next todo is my Electric Fans need to be setup to kickon and my tach is not working. Also need to look into a better upper radiator hose setup, what I have now is temporary to get it running. Looking todo something in steal that I can then have powdercoated black. Also need to get the tubing for the supercharger

I shot a short (real short) video of it running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu4CAVE5sMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxyo3v44w2s

[camcojb]

Well I am so happy. Started it up today and let it run for awhile and it runs great. Synced up the timing fixed some small problems but so far so good.
next todo is my Electric Fans need to be setup to kickon and my tach is not working. Also need to look into a better upper radiator hose setup, what I have now is temporary to get it running. Looking todo something in steal that I can then have powdercoated black. Also need to get the tubing for the supercharger

I shot a short (real short) video of it running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu4CAVE5sMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxyo3v44w2s

very good, congrats.

Jody

[thedugan]

Two updated pictures of the progress of the motor. I guess I should end this thread now. Has nothing todo with the subject anymore.

[thedugan]

I guess I should start a new thread but Im to pissed right now.
Car runs fine but I had a small leak coming from the top of the tank. So I dropped the tank and primed it and the leak is coming from the threads my OUT fitting on the top of the Rock valley tank. I cant get the fitting to budge to tighten it. Can't even loosen it. Not sure whats going on. The return fitting is fine. Ugg :mad:

[camcojb]

I guess I should start a new thread but Im to pissed right now.
Car runs fine but I had a small leak coming from the top of the tank. So I dropped the tank and primed it and the leak is coming from the threads my OUT fitting on the top of the Rock valley tank. I cant get the fitting to budge to tighten it. Can't even loosen it. Not sure whats going on. The return fitting is fine. Ugg :mad:

the outlet has all the pressure so much more likely to leak as compared to the return line which isn't under pressure (hopefully). What type of sealer did you use? I like liquid teflon. If it's a six sided nut on the fitting make sure to use a 6 sided socket to try to remove it so it doesn't strip as easily.

Jody

[thedugan]

Jody -- issue is that the fitting screws into the tank itself and its a 90degree. So you have to get a open end wrench on it to turn it. I used liquid teflon and thats how I caught it. The white liquid was bubbling. Anyway what a pain.
I love the Rock Valley but the Ricks is so much nicer as the 90 degree is build into the tank so you don't have to deal with this. Oh well I wanted to get a stock appearing tank.

[thedugan]

Well the good news is that Rock Valley stands by their product. They told me to ship it back and they will fix it.

In the mean time I pulled it all apart and put it in a vise and got the fitting out. The threads all look fine so it was threaded fine. I have 2 different teflon tape tubes. One is safe with Fuel and one is not. So the big question is which one did I use? So I'm going to put it back together and just verify its not the tube I used. Lets hope thats the problem. If not then gotta bag it up and ship it back

Hopefully Friday I can get out to the garage and get to work. To much going on this week with the holiday and all

[thedugan]

Well good news for me.
Looks like I used the liquid teflon that did not work with gas. I used my other tube put it back together and tested it. No leaks. Killer

So to the garbage with the other tube. I only need one and the permatex one was really old anyway.

Okay one issue down. Now to the next....