G-Body guys ... Watt's Link !!!

[RobG]

Here's some mock up shots of SC&C's weld-in watts link kit for G-body's. My car is an '87 turbo Buick that I'm in the process of fixin' up :unibrow: Big thanks to Mark at SC&C for all of his help and input with these cars as well as answering some of my dumb questions, the guy is awesome to deal with.

Anyway, this kit (or the bolt in if you want things easier ) is pretty dang beefy and well put together and I would highly recommend it. And yes, I will tie the cradle to the frame with some spiffy support gussets that I'm in the process of making.

[JRouche]

I didnt see anything on their web page. Is it special order, really new or prolly more likely, Im an idiot LOL. How much was it? Do they sell components if thats all I need. Could you post a link?? Thanks. JR

[deuce_454]

I have been running mine since this summer and i just love what it does for the handling.. when i installed it (i have the bolt on one) the cornering felt alot less dramatic, like the car didnt have to settle in the turn, it was just alot more well mannered.. At first it almost felt like some of the hair-chested racer was taken out of the car... i soon learned that it was replaced with a confidence inspiring finesse.. And when i started leaning on it it really started to shine, i noticed my cornering speed was up and it was alot easier to recover and drive on the loose side of traction

and having overtaken a bmw 330 e36 on the outside of a 270 degree highway on-ramp (stupid i know, but my grin was premanently affixed for days after)... i can vouch for the SC&C wattslink ... it brings the rear suspension on par with my heavily upgraded front suspension

youll love it!

[Bill87GN]

Excellent!!!


Nice to see another turbo regal guy here too
:thumbsup:

[RobG]

JR,

http://www.scandc.com/wattslink.htm
Mark is awesome to deal with :hail:


I'll post up some more pics soon guys. I've made a little more progress :)

[79cutlass]

Any more pics?

[RobG]

Just made these frame supports, still need to finish the backside supports.

[JRouche]

Looking good!! I am in the process of moving my coilovers from the rear position on my four link to accommodate the watts. I have all the parts for the watts now, thanks to Tim at Fayes and Marc at SC&C, thanks guys.

My question is how or where are you gonna locate the pivot point for the center pivot? How are you gonna determine where to set it? Is there a formula that you will go by or seat of the pants driving to adjust the RC? JR

[andrewmp6]

Here is the company they buy them off of http://www.fays2.net/fays2_watts_link_23_.html they are nice i have one of there's on my 68 mustang.

[deuce_454]

Here is the company they buy them off of http://www.fays2.net/fays2_watts_link_23_.html they are nice i have one of there's on my 68 mustang.

First id start off by mentioning that SC&C is a sponsor, so the post isnt entirely cool.... but just to show you that the watts link for the g.bodys was actually developed with input from, and on request from SC&C ill refer to the pictures on Fays HP of the installed watts.. they are pics of MY car, and i have had lengthy phone conversations with markus on the watts for the g body and he was deeply involved in the development of the item..

so its not a just question of buying them from fays, and selling them to the end user... besides their price is the same, and id rather buy from a guy who knows g-body handling and is a sponsor... (besides its no secret where he gets them.. it even says so in the SC&C homepage)

[RobG]

Looking good!! I am in the process of moving my coilovers from the rear position on my four link to accommodate the watts. I have all the parts for the watts now, thanks to Tim at Fayes and Marc at SC&C, thanks guys.

My question is how or where are you gonna locate the pivot point for the center pivot? How are you gonna determine where to set it? Is there a formula that you will go by or seat of the pants driving to adjust the RC? JR

Well, in my frame I tried to get everything as centered as possible. The cradle, the axle brackets and then the propeller. The propeller needs to be at about a 10 o'clock and 5 o'clock position for proper articulation, it can't be straight up and down. I hope that helps a little. :_paranoid

[deuce_454]

The propeller needs to be at about a 10 o'clock and 5 o'clock position for proper articulation, it can't be straight up and down.


dude... step back away from the keyboard.... :faint:

When setting up the watts, only two things are super critical... (assuming everything is installed correctly)

1. the two arms need to be exactly!! the same length, i say this because on the fays setup they are adjustable.... you cant use them to offset the axle to one side.. as the lengths wont be identical and axle wont stay centered....

2. when you have the car at rideheight set the propeller straight up and down and clamp the axleclamps so both arms are exactly!! level...

after this you can adjust the propeller up or down to tweak the rollcenter as needed, WITHOUT changing the length of the watt-link arms or the position of the axleclamps... the clocking of the propeller isnt overly critical... it will allow ample traven in both directions if its about vertical at rideheight... 5 and 11 o-clock wont hurt or help compared to 6 and 12,

be warned that on a g body the conflicting rollcenters (intersection of UCA´s and the fixed watts propeller) adds roll resistance, so when you think you are only moving rollcenter and keeping sway bar setting same... the resistance to roll will actually increase when you move the propeller downwards... this is especially true if you are running polyurethane upper bushings in the rearend... (UMI solid upper bushings will break somthing as you need the compliance of the elastomer bushing)

[Marcus SC&C]

Okay let`s clear things up a little bit here. First off it`s best to run compliant rubber bushings in the axle housing if you plan to run a watts. Let the watts handle the lateral axle location and RC locating duties and just let the UCAs handle controling pinion angle. Beefy arms are fine just use compliant bushings in the axle housing. It will work with poly in the housing but run the watts in one of it`s 3 highest settings to prevent RC conflict. As far as running the watts with beefy upper arms AND hard bushings or bearings in the axle housing, just don`t do it. It`s dumb. :yes:
PS. Lowering the rear RC with the watts actually requires a big increase in rear spring or swaybar rate. That`s one reason we designed the watts and Spohn adj. rate rear bar to work together. I still prefer to run the watts relatively high, 16" or so. We haven`t seen any measurable gains from lowering it much more and it requires an uncomfortable increase in spring rate and sway bar rate to keep the car neutral. Been there,done that. ;) Mark SC&C

[ProTouring442]

Okay let`s clear things up a little bit here. First off it`s best to run compliant rubber bushings in the axle housing if you plan to run a watts. Let the watts handle the lateral axle location and RC locating duties and just let the UCAs handle controling pinion angle. Beefy arms are fine just use compliant bushings in the axle housing. It will work with poly in the housing but run the watts in one of it`s 3 highest settings to prevent RC conflict. As far as running the watts with beefy upper arms AND hard bushings or bearings in the axle housing, just don`t do it. It`s dumb. :yes:
PS. Lowering the rear RC with the watts actually requires a big increase in rear spring or swaybar rate. That`s one reason we designed the watts and Spohn adj. rate rear bar to work together. I still prefer to run the watts relatively high, 16" or so. We haven`t seen any measurable gains from lowering it much more and it requires an uncomfortable increase in spring rate and sway bar rate to keep the car neutral. Been there,done that. ;) Mark SC&C

Good info! I do not have a G-body, but rather an A-body (72 442) and was thinking of a Watts, factory style lower arms, and a torque-arm. Any thoughts on this?

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[JRouche]

Okay let`s clear things up a little bit here. First off it`s best to run compliant rubber bushings in the axle housing if you plan to run a watts. Let the watts handle the lateral axle location and RC locating duties and just let the UCAs handle controling pinion angle. Beefy arms are fine just use compliant bushings in the axle housing. It will work with poly in the housing but run the watts in one of it`s 3 highest settings to prevent RC conflict. As far as running the watts with beefy upper arms AND hard bushings or bearings in the axle housing, just don`t do it. It`s dumb. :yes:
PS. Lowering the rear RC with the watts actually requires a big increase in rear spring or swaybar rate. That`s one reason we designed the watts and Spohn adj. rate rear bar to work together. I still prefer to run the watts relatively high, 16" or so. We haven`t seen any measurable gains from lowering it much more and it requires an uncomfortable increase in spring rate and sway bar rate to keep the car neutral. Been there,done that. ;) Mark SC&C

Hey Marc, great info. And I hate to hijack this thread. But I have a couple questions. The pivot point for the propeller. Can you steer me to a good description of a baseline to start with to weld it in. I have read up on roll center and I "kinda" get it, still kinda baffling. I gotta try and wrap my mind around that issue.

What I have is a AME 4-link, poly bushed :) Air Ride tech shockwaves. The car is a light 62 nova. Im just trying to determine the correct location, height wise to mount the adjustable plate for the propeller. I have as much room up and down that I need. Im just lost as to where a good starting point would be. Centered on the axle housing with equal amounts of adjustability up or down? A lil lower, a lil higher??

And the spring rate issue you talked about? With these air springs Im kinda stuck. I think they are fairy progressive in spring rate, being an air spring.

Dont mean to be a pest, or to hijack this post (sorry). Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks... JR

[The WidowMaker]

figure out where your stock RRCH was, and dont put an adjustment at that height. you should have 5" or so of adjustment, so if you get a range of 12-17" you would be golden. some guys are running them around 10, but like mark said, the coresponding rates would have to be really large.

a good starting pt is equal or just above the rear axle centerline.


deuce - good pt about the bars being equal and also about setting the arms level. they dont have to be level (just equal and opposite), but that makes it more complicated to set up.

Tim

[deuce_454]

the stock RRCH is alittle funky to find.. it is at the theoretical intersection of the rear UCA's .. on a non lowered car about 6 inches behind and 6 inches above the center of the rear end... on a lowered car its somwhere in the trunk!

i have mine set at axle center and it works awesome, i havent recieved the adjustable swaybar from markus yet... but he assures me that its on its way, so íll be able to play arround with RRCH and swaybar rate to find the sweetspot...