why pro touring???

[evilzee28]

Well it's Friday already & time to start to unwind for the weekend :yes: Thought maybe a little light hearted debate might be the order of the day like last weeks '69 camaro posting. Ok,...........so why have you progressed to owning/building a Pro-Touring car,.....

what has influenced you most,?
who has influenced you most,?
what car has influenced you most?

& given unlimited funds what would you buy/build? Would it still be PT or something waaaaay different? :)

where do you see the Pro Touring scene going in the future?


well there's just a few questions to get you started , have a good day:thumbsup:

[jannes_z-28]

Since you and I are the only ones awake we can start. Those people over in your colonies ar apparently still asleep :)

For me it was a natural step. I bought my car five years ago. I had been looking for many years for a '69 Camaro and this one turned up for sale. For many years I had seen the modern style on BMW's, Audi's, Mercedes' and so on with their high wheels and low profile tires on lowered suspensions. I guess they were influenced by the very popular European Salon Cars Championship cars, like the BTCC or DTM.

So I thought that a Camaro would look cool if the same style was applied to it. This was probably in 1996-97. One day I bought a Chevy Hi-Perf magazine because it had some cool Camaro on the cover, it was the Tucker's yellow car, I then learned that there already was something called Pro-Touring and it was exactly as I had been thinking about.

It took me a few years before I could move to a new house with a proper garage to make my dreams come true.

Now I have a cool Pro-Touring Camaro that has all the characteristics of a Pro-Touring car.

[zbugger]

I have an insane addiction to speed. I'm just not afraid of it. Clowns on the other hand, I can do without. With my love of driving fast, came a bad habit of picking up speed through turns instead of slowing down for them. My 15x3.5" wheels aren't the best for that kind of driving, so I had to start building my car to handle my driving style. Hopefully it can keep up. :yes:

[BC69]

I was influenced by this Pro-touring scene by pure looks at first. I was like 15 and seeing cars like the Thrasher with the big wheels and disc brakes. I really had no idea the other capabilities at the time, but I loved the look of modern styling added to a muscle car.
I began talking with more and more people, lurking on Pro-touring.com and was just overwhelmed with all the new innovation and technology. I have been hooked.

I think the toughest question is where does it go next? It seems we are always pushing the envelope farther and farther with each car, and right now Turbos and LS1-2s are on the top of the list with Corvette suspsensions and such. But where it goes next? I think we will see more use of modern technology. Addition of electronic all-wheel drive, ways to better control the power that all-wheel drive offeres. Moving power from wheel to wheel around corners and to all four in the straights.

But honestly I have no clue...could be anything.

Okay I gotta go to work...Ill be back on there though!

Tim

[jannes_z-28]

I think you are right there Tim,

we have a lot of new high-tech to explore in our cars. Living in Europe we have all kinds of highpower, high-tech cars and all major German manufacturers has 400+ hp V8s or V10s in their line up. Combined with the rest of their driveline we could get some really fancy stuff in our cars.

Only future will tell.


Jan

[Rick Dorion]

Long before the term 'Pro Touring' existed, I was always interested in improving cars. I always modified brakes, exhaust, engine, suspension, ignition, etc even with my '73 240Z. The current camaro is another opportunity. It's so great that the aftermarket is very healthy for us all.

[XcYZ]

The first time I saw Big Red in a magazine (Oct. 88 I believe), I knew that was the direction for me. I love race cars and 69 Camaros, so the g-machine concept and styling cues were perfect - I had to do it.

Oh, and I still have that issue of Car Craft, too. :yes:

[Payton King]

Well,

you have to go back a ways for me because I have always been into anything that I can ride or drive. "Gumball Rally" started it for me. I always wanted a car I could race accross the US. It had to be fast on the top end and be able to carry the speed through the corners. Since I was young and could only afford 1 car at a time, my car had to do it all. I liked to street race, auto cross and late night banzi runs down the interstate. I have been building all of my cars since I have been 16(I am 40 now) in a pro-touring style. Obviously I was using cars that gave me a good starting point...corvette.

Like Scott, when I saw Big Red in 88 it was time to build an old style car that could do it all instead of cheating with the new stuff.

Where is pro-touring going? I have no idea. The power levels have elevated to the insane. The cars handle like race cars 10 years ago.

Next step would be grafting an aircraft cockpit, all wheel drive and a formula one motor.

Seriously, I think the ground effects kit that Tyler is designing will be the next big thing. Seeing so many 1st gen camaros with the only visible difference from the outside is paint color or wheel choice.(nobody is modifying the bodies). Would be a step in the right direction. A bolt on kit that does not permantly alter the body. I am all over that one.

[Steve Chryssos]

What has influenced you most,?
--Simultaneous exposure to hot rods and exotic supercars. I am equally blown away by both. Having grown up in NYC, movies and magazines had more influence than actual cars and events.

Who has influenced you most,?
--Dad, Brock Yates, Enzo Ferrari, Mark Donahue, Hal Needham, George Barris, Bill Mitchell (former GM styling chief), Bill Mitchell (former employer) Lil' John Buttera, Dr. Ferdinand Porsche, Jeff Smith. It's a long list. Oh and when I was four, my brother stuck chewing gum all over the wheels of my my Tonka truck. It really pissed me off and I guess the obsession began.

What car has influenced you most?
--Ferrari 365 Daytona, Big Red, Porsche 930 RSR, Ferrari F40, Penske Trans Am Camaros, The Bandit T/A, The General Lee.

Given unlimited funds what would you buy/build? Would it still be?
--It will be PT. I'm working on the "Unlimited Funds" thingie.

Where do you see the Pro Touring scene going in the future?
--The true spirit will become diluted as only the basic cues are adapted to mainstream hot rods. With increasing regularity, the term will be slapped on pretty much anything with 17" diameter or larger wheels. At the same time, a select few will continue to adapt sophisticated technology (i.e. active suspension) and building techniques (i.e. full frame chassis) to their rides.

How'd I do?
/Steevo

[69rs]

I have always liked 69 Camaros. I have always thought that cars should do more than go fast in a straight line. They should be able to go wherever, whenever and be comfortable to do it in. When I saw Kevin King's Year One NOV8TR 69 Camaro I knew that's what I wanted to do. I haven't yet, but at least I have the car!

[Derek69SS]

My cars get driven hard, fast, and often. :)

I drive a lot of 100+ mile trips, and I let the woman drive it a lot, so it needs to be safe, reliable, get decent gas mileage, and cruise 80+ on the highway.

Good brakes, improved handling, fuel injection, overdrive, and comfort... from a car that looks better than any new car. This will never go out of style. The all-out track cars may lose some popularity, but the daily-driveable muscle-cars will always be cool.

Big wheels will go "out" though. People will continue to run 17" and 18" to clear 13" brakes, but the 19" and bigger are a fad in my opinion. Anything that is for looks rather than performance, styles will change. The need for speed will always dictate styling.

[Ummgawa]

As a stalwart "I like em the way the General built em" Purist of sorts, I was heavily influenced by The Mule. I would have never done to a car, much less a 69 convertible, what I am doing now unless I had ever laid eyes on that one particular car.

Of course Nascar, Trans Am racing, Muscle Cars and growing up in the 60s etc was the foundation.

But The Mule did it for me. Plain and simple. I equate seeing it in person with meeting Raquel Welch in person, I'll never forget it. Plus its owned by a true Car guy, not some ahole investor that would park it in some heated warehouse somewhere.

[MaxHarvard]

because its expensive and people like pricey stuff :D

[Steve1968LS2]

What has influenced you most,?
Where do you see the Pro Touring scene going in the future?
--The true spirit will become diluted as only the basic cues are adapted to mainstream hot rods. With increasing regularity, the term will be slapped on pretty much anything with 17" diameter or larger wheels. At the same time, a select few will continue to adapt sophisticated technology (i.e. active suspension) and building techniques (i.e. full frame chassis) to their rides.

How'd I do?
/Steevo

Well, we hope not.. but it is bound to happen to any segment as fringe elements borrow styling cues more than engineering principals. It is the responsibilities of the core group to not loose sight of the REAL principals behind pro-touring cars. What happened to pro-street is that the core group forgot what it was all about and just about the entire segment went loopy on an overdose of chrome and badly ballanced cars.

The thing that pro-touring has going for it is that is really just an evolution of the whole "street machine" deal. Cars that evolved in tech of be more street friendly and have all around performance on par with modern cars. People will always desire those traits in a classic car.

I like pro-touring because it takes a car that is cool to drive and makes it cool and FUN to drive..

[DCreations]

I was all into drag racing in high school. Then my senior year my friends dad bought a Ferrari and I fell in love with the handling and speed it had. So ever since I wanted my bird to handle like a top end car. Then I seen chris kerr's camaro and seen what it could do. So that's my story :_paranoid

[Y-TRY]

I've owned my car for 15 years and it's been through several versions of the same ol' 355/4-speed combo. I really identified with the Car Craft RSE as a way to truly judge a car's performance.

Each time I'd break the car I'd tear it down and build it back up a bit differently. One of these breaks came right as the Red Witch hit the scene. That car, above all others, really set me in this direction. I decided to really tear into the car and do something drastically different from my previous builds. It was a very ambitious goal considering my budget, or lack of it. That's why it took 7 years to accomplish (it's been down since 1997). I took everything that wasn't part of my final vision and sold it, making sure I wouldn't short cut or settle.

I think the build style of Pro-Touring is a natural evolution. Plus, it's real hard to do something different with an old Camaro. I'm intrigued by the challenge of balancing old vs.new vs. old. Unlike a couple of you guys, I don't want to see the bodies being altered much. I want an exotic supercar in Musclecar skin. Go look at the flared-fendered bondo machines of the '70's as an example of well-intended body mods, now taken out of context.

Even above the "look" I believe in the performance aspect. That's why I'm not a fan of 20's on the cars. They are the opposite of performance, IMHO.
If I were to do it again, or next, I'll probably build an LSx with the turbos. GM really hit it out of the park with that platform and I see it becoming a very common swap. There will be a backlash against the "look" of these cars, I forsee, but most of my mods are function over fashion, and performance never goes out of style. :thumbsup:

[evilzee28]

Most seem to have missed the question that I thought you'd all answer first, ie

Given unlimited funds what would you build/buy & would it be PT or something totally off the wall. What parts are on your wish list? :)

For me it's a natural progression from drag racing, to wanting to race at something for longer than 10 seconds.It seemed the more money I threw at my '55 to make it quicker, the less time I had racing it!! So the natural thing would be circuit racing. Plus I have to have my cars legal for the road to enjoy those nice sunny days out DRIVING!. (whats a sunny day as it's raining here in Brit-land) so a road/circuit car makes total sense, plus the PT look of unmolested bodywork, nice wheels,high performance & handling are a top priority for me :thumbsup:

[T Bell]

Unlimited funds: I'd go ahead and build a twin turbo aluminum block and heads 455 Olds with a 6 spd. Leather seats, a/c, cruise, auto start, Baer brakes. Close to what I want to build except for the BB. But if I have unlimited funds, I wouldn't have to worry about gas prices :willy: . It would be the best daily driver/late sports car humiliator.

[evilzee28]

Unlimited funds: I'd go ahead and build a twin turbo aluminum block and heads 455 Olds with a 6 spd. Leather seats, a/c, cruise, auto start, Baer brakes. Close to what I want to build except for the BB. But if I have unlimited funds, I wouldn't have to worry about gas prices :willy: . It would be the best daily driver/late sports car humiliator.

Sounds good to me, hey, you've just invented a name for someones car................THE HUMILIATOR ! :thumbsup:

[DCreations]

I would drop my 70 bird shell over a new 360 Ferrari if I had the cash. I love high end cars.

[Rybar]

When I was about 13 I wanted to build a Pro-Street 72 Nova, my dad said forget it with the old cars. I then got my '94 Trans Am and modded the crap out of it. In the mean time I would always pick up mags, and go on the net. Then I decided I wanted to build a classic car with my dad - to spend time together etc. (I ended up doing it all myself)

I was trying to figure out what car to get, he used to have an Olds 442 which I looked into, then I was thinking '69 Charger (I always loved the General Lee) Then I picked up a Super Chevy mag one day and it had this beautiful '69 Z28, the car was black with white stripes and had some pro-touring treatment. 17" TTII's, Bear brakes and some suspension work. The car looked so killer I decided right then and there I wanted a '69 but it had to be an RS.

I then found Tyler Bearegaurds Green '68 with the LT1 & T56, I put 2 & 2 together wanted to drop in that engine/tranny combo. I also followed the Thrasher build-up and liked alot of Mark Stielows ideas. I did have a 383 LT1 & T56 I was going to install then my project got put on hold for a while. Until now since I've dropped in the LS1-T56.

So the cars that influenced me the most:

1) Black '69 Z28 that was in Super Chevy probably about 7-8 years ago. (2-page spread poster)
2) Tyler Bearegaurd's green '68 LT1-T56
3) Mark Stielow's Thrasher '69

[Payton King]

The car that I am in the process of building is still the one that I would build. I told myself no more changes, but for conversations sake....

Change the LS1 for a 402 or 427 LS2 with that tricky Harrod intake. Run the wilwood 6 piston calipers up front instead of the corvette piece. I would also like to have a set of Forgelines like on Penny and maybe a 275/315 combo instead of the 245/285 set I am running now.

[evilzee28]

The car that I am in the process of building is still the one that I would build. I told myself no more changes, but for conversations sake....

Change the LS1 for a 402 or 427 LS2 with that tricky Harrod intake. Run the wilwood 6 piston calipers up front instead of the corvette piece. I would also like to have a set of Forgelines like on Penny and maybe a 275/315 combo instead of the 245/285 set I am running now.
Do it Payton, you know it makes sense!!!!!! :thumbsup:
whats a few more dollars huh? lol :yes:

[Payton King]

The motor will not happen for a long time. My LS1 is fresh from the shop with Diamond forged pistons, Eagle H-beam rods and ARP studs on the mains and heads. Now if some one would buy my 90 mm LSX intake and throttle body that is still in the box for say...$1300 and I would throw in a 85mm maf new in the box. I would probably make the jump on the Harrod intake.

The rest of the stuff can wait.

Maybe I need to post on ls1tech.com

[ProdigyCustoms]

Who would have to be dad because I was so wzposed to it at a early age. Plus I really thing we are born with it to some expent. Pro Touring, i was actually pretty early on the curve doing a 80 Z28 in 1992 with Transverse leaf spring, Carrera's, tubular arms, 16" Iroc wheels, 4 wheel disc, Big sway bars, aluminum head small block, 4 speed. Funny enough I was not following any trend, kinda doin my own thing have just always loved straight liners and G machines.
Unlimited money? Cuda convertible, full chassis, aluminum Hemi, and everything exotic I could think of.

[enzo]

When I was 17 I bought my first 69 Camaro for $700. I put a 427 in it with some nitrous and street raced the hell out of it. It was the fastest car in town - and proudly said - the scariest! Until, a fateful night when Tom Nelson took me for a ride in his '72 Nova through legendary Mulholland. Although this thing was only a small block, he had managed to adapt a Viper 6 speed to the Chevy block (revolutionary in 1996) while at the same time setting up the suspension enough to handle a 4 wheel drift without sliding off a cliff. At that point - I realized I wanted to combine the refined styling of the 69 Camaro with the mechanics of the Nova - although Tom disagrees that thing was f'n ugly. Now with some years of experience and a little more money, Tom has built my small block to turn out 747 hp and I finally got my 6 speed. The combination of brute power - handling - air conditioning - and braking in one package has not oly inspired me but also just about every guy (and girl) that ever took the time to work under the hood of anything old. As far as the future is concerned, it's limitless... as long as technology and the need for raw unadultarated power are present - this evolving sport will go on as long as there are people like us on sites like this.

Unlimited Funds: Tom --- I need some turbos!!!

[TOM NELSON]

My Dads Twin Turbo Pantera.i Grew Up Listening To That Turbo Behind My Ear Whistling And Feeling The Front Suspension De Camber Accelerating.big Red That Was It Also.as Far As Enzo's Comment I Like To Think Mad Max Not Ugly Just A Hard Core Look.yeah All Black 285 30s Up Front 335 35s In The Back No Grill Lots Of Roll Cage 6 Speeds 8100 Rpm And A Ton Of Nitrous.and With The Dual 3.5 Xr1s You Could Hear The Reverse Pressure Wave Suck Back In The Exhuast On Decel.

[trapin]

So why have you progressed to owning/building a Pro-Touring car?

Basically I was just tired with the whole 'drag racing' crowd. I think a lot of them are nothing but pompous A-holes who care nothing about teaching a younger generation or helping out their counterparts. It was pretty much the people involved that drove me away from it, no so much the cars. I still love a Pro-Street car if it's done right. What impressed me most about Pro-Touring was the people involved in it...everyone bends over backwards to help everyone out and there's never a shortage of encouragement or reassurance when needed. Not to mention....the cars are pretty kick ass too.

What has influenced you most?

The 'hands on' approach to it. It's really motivated me to become a 'do-it-yourselfer' on this project. It's encouraged me to learn more about my car rather than the engine, trans, and some drag slicks.

Who has influenced you most?

Pretty much everyone involved in Pro-Touring. But to be specific, David Pozzi, Jonathon Duke, John Parson's (the zen-welder), Mark Stielow, Patrick Schatz. All have played a part one way or another.

What car has influenced you most?

That's easy....The Mule.

Given unlimited funds what would you buy/build? Would it still be PT or something waaaaay different?

All-Wheel-Drive '69 Corvair Monza with twin-turbo V6, Hewland 6-speed, tubular chasis and modified Corvette suspension front and rear. Not an easy task to say the least....but that's why I'd do it, for the challange.

where do you see the Pro Touring scene going in the future?

Probably in the direction of cars like the Twinsting or Steve Rupps 'Penny' where elements of Pro-Street and Pro-Touring converge to form a new style of build that will satisfy all palates of performance taste. Progression baby! Change is DAMN good. :thumbsup:

[69rs]

What impressed me most about Pro-Touring was the people involved in it...everyone bends over backwards to help everyone out and there's never a shortage of encouragement or reassurance when needed.
I don't want to steal the post, but what makes people who are into P/T nicer/more helpful than people involved with any other build style, assuming it's true? What would draw better people to this type build?

[trapin]

Jim...that opinion comes from my own personal experience, it obviously won't be the same for others. I just know that when I was into the whole drag racing thing, a lot of the people (in Detroit, anyway) were kind of arrogant and conceited about the scene. If you were a new comer, you were expected to learn on your own. Help would be given if needed...but with great reluctance. And if you ever called a race shop or asked a fellow street racer for advice or information...you were treated as more of a nuisance than an potential counterpart. Again....that's just my own personal experience and I have a number of friends I hung around with back in the day that feel the same way as I do.

The Pro-Touring community has always demostrated a commitment to the growth of our scene and a dedication to it's future by encouraging and helping out the new comers whenever it is needed. I've yet to meet one person on Lateral-G or Pro-Touring.com that I felt was conceited or self important.

[evilzee28]

When i was involved in the drag racing scene, I found that there were a lot of people that were very guarded about what they were doing & any changes that they'd made. They tended to be "holier than thou" if they had a quicker car than you, they wouldn't help or avise you if you had problems. The ones that did help were probably newbies to the scene & hadn't learned that much about what makes a car work "properly" & you weren't considerd a threat. The advice given was not always totally correct though.It seemed that alot of people were copying what they thought they'd seen done to the top cars, but not understanding how or why. There was a lot of "monkey see, monkey do". Having gone back to the drags, after an abscence of some 10 years, just to put some numbers on my friends car, I was amazed to see people making the same basic mistakes in car building! It seems that everyone could be a threat, performance wise to the quick guys, so they don't divulge their knowledge. The difference with the PT scene is there is NO competition, hence everyone happy to help those that need it. :yes:

[primate]

big red is a big influence.
beating my wifes trans am is a big motavator.
future? i have no idea.....

[Nine Ball]

My reasons to build pro-touring cars:

1. My first car was a '69 Camaro. Of course, it was a bondo-bucket and a "20-footer", but that was on a McDonalds income budget. Had to sell it to pay for college (a whopping $3500 I got for it)

2. I've been into late model Mustangs and Camaros since then. New cars ride, brake, handle, and accelerate better than old cars. I liked those aspects far too much I suppose.

3. GM quit building Camaros. Since there wasn't a "new" one, I decided to build my own version. :D

I would love to build something other than GM cars, but being in my position within the GM/LS1 world, it would be almost blasphemy to build a Ford or Mopar lol......unless I slap an LS1 under the hood :unibrow:

Tony

[Chuck Byram]

I wanted to do a Pro Touring car before I knew there was such a thing. I wanted a more or less late model pony car with bolt on handling and braking upgrades and a more powerful engine. My inspiration was the '65/'66 Shelby GT-350. It was an excellent surprise to find that a build style was evolving right in line with what I wanted. IMHO, and with all due respect to Big Red, etc., Carroll Shelby's the guy who started it all.
Chuck

[steemin]

I have spent most of my adult life going back and forth between classic muscle and late model muscle. Something was always lacking so I sold or traded into the next car.
I really enjoy new car handling,performance,braking and modern amenities. However new car body lines are vanilla (by comparison) IMHO.
On the other hand I LOVE the classic lines of old school muscle. I like the way that they draw a crowd. It is fun to have people come up to my car and tell me that they (or their dad,uncle,next door neighbor etc..)
"used to have one of those". But quite frankly the driving experience of classic cars leaves a lot to be desired.
Then I stumbled upon a pro touring car in a magazine. The lightbulb in my head went on. I could have the best of both worlds! Handling,performance,braking,creature comforts and the timeless beauty
of an american muscle car. All in one package.
And as a side benefit PT cars when well taken care of will hold their value or quite possibly even appreciate :)
These cars will not fall out of favor.
I honestly believe that this genre will continue to grow and evolve.

Scott