B B C 5 4 0 T W I N T U R B O Q U E S T I O N S

[hannes_slanec]

Hello, I would need some help with my 68 Impala with 540BBC twin turbo project I hopefully will introduce in the project thread soon.

How can give me some hints what leight and not tooo expensive turbo is the right one (trim, A/R, housing, size and so on...)

The turbo shall make not more than 6-9PSI of boost and not earlier than from around 3500-4000rpm (Redline is 7000rpm).

My expected HP rating is around 1000HP, I would like to reach a 3,5sec 0-60 time.

My compression is not that low with 9,2-9,5:1 (depends on the head gasket I will go with) but that car needs to be streetable and therefor the mileage is important.

7 or 8:1 would make the mileage suffering.

Also a nice cam advise would be appreciated, the car will go with a modified Vortec 7400 EFI.




Thanks in advance

Hannes Slanec:thumbsup:

[bentfab]

Contact Tom Nelson he is the twin turbo mad man. Or go to his web site: www.nelsonracingengines.com
He's a site sponsor

[hannes_slanec]

Thanks for the hint but I fear he will not have the time to help someone who cannot afford to buy an engine from him.

I live in Austria, the transport and tax alone would cost more than the engien itself (we have tax up to 65%).

Thanks Hannes

[Payton King]

540 ci BBC twin turbo and gas mileage are mutually exclusive.

[hannes_slanec]

I knew that that statement will come as it comes always from somebody:rolleyes: but it is a difference if I need 20 liters of gas per 100km or 45 liters:wow: .

There is no need to talk about any further, any engine got a fuel consuption range from / unitl, it depends on many factors what the mileage is finally.

An carbureted, hot camed, low static comp. engine with a high stall speed, 4.88 gears and a food that is down on the floor most of the time will need more than a fuel injected, properly tuned, mild camed, high comp. engine with a low stall speed, 3.08 gears and a driver who push the padel once in a while, even if they got the same displacement.

And I just want to be on the lower side of the range of an 540cid engines fuel consumption.


Hannes

[TOM NELSON]

A mid frame 88mm i would probally use that way it's not coming on boost to fast.And will be better on mileage The 88 will be able to make the 1000hp you looking for.You can find them rebuilt pretty cheap i'm not sure of the supplier but ive seen them for as little as 700.00 rebuilt.Hope that helps

[hannes_slanec]

Thanks Mr Nelson, it helped a lot but if I understood you right you talk about a single turbo setup, right?

What means midframe?

By the way thanks for your nice videos, you give a lot of passion in it and it is visual.:yes:

I love the sound of the 427 TT video of Antony Keatings engine (What Antony Keating is that, the Leader of Red Hot Cillie Peppers?)

What injectors would I need for a very mildcamed and streetable 540 TT and what would be a good cam for mileage for your opinon?

Thanks so far Sir!:cheers:

Hannes Slanec


Ps.: I added a Photoshop-Fake of my Project, although I dont think I can go with 20´since I will have traction problems anyway, so I will go with 18´s and more sideheight since a lot of people told me that will make my 0-60 time far better.

[hannes_slanec]

A thing that would be even more interesting is a quad turbo setup since the smaller turbos are more easy to get and they can be mounted with less distance from the cylinder head.

Headers for a quad turbo would be very easy to make only two bows from two exhaust ports up to a flange and the turbo on it, done:unibrow: .

But what would be the right turbo for a 540cid engine?

Any suggestion?

Thanks Hannes

[hannes_slanec]

By the way, I could not find anything in the web with mid frame turbo.

What means mid frame?


Hannes

[TOM NELSON]

This what i would do run two injector per cyl.One 36lb and the other a 55lb the 36 will give you a good spray pattern and nice drivabilty they are cheap also.Stage the second set two come in at around 104 kpa when boost comes in this will improve your mileage quite a bit because you'll be able to run real lean in non boost conditions.As far as turbo arrangements i'm going to give you a secret.Make your firing order 18726543 it is not exspensive to do most cam companies will do this for you then when you build the headers try y or join 2&8 join 4&6 take those two and join them togethor do the same for 1&7and 3&5 and run them togethor take these two and run each of them into a split housing Single 88mm turbocharger.You should get what your looking for and then some.I wouldn't doubt you could see 15mpg and still make 1000 easy.Cam specs should be in the high220 at .050 range with around 115 center.Hope that gets you going

[hannes_slanec]

Thanks Mr Nelson

for your help although I cannot afford to buy an engine from you.:bow:

I think now I know almost all only some minor questions if you have some minutes more:

I plan to go with the Electromotive EFI (I read that you also work with them), will the Electromotive handle 2 injectors or how works that?

I can change the firing order and I will do that if you say me that is a good thing, is that the firing order of the current 496 BBC Gen VII and what is the advantage?

As for the turbo, my problem is that, as far as I am informed, the Turbocharger got different parameters that I need to know if I want to order some.

For my knowledge I need to know:

Comp A/R

Turbine A/R

Housing size (that I think are the 88mm)

Trim

and so on.

Could you give me the parameters I need to order, that would be very nice.
Also if you could remeber a shop where I could by used but remamufactured turbos would be highly appreciated.

Just to be sure that I understood you right, you talk about two 88mm turbos with split housing, not a sinlge setup, right?

Thanks Sir

Hannes Slanec :cheers:

[TOM NELSON]

I'll check into what would be affordable in a rebuilt thats common in the bigger frames.I'm only talking about running one turbo on your combo a single 88 split .The tec3r has the staged injection built into the software.The gt unit won't be able to run the 16 injectors.The reason for the cam swap is this.Remember driver side of the engine is 1,3,5,7 pass 2,4,6,8 are you with me so far.The engine fires every 90 degrees so #1 cyl fires then number #8 etc.So by changing the fire order to 18726543 what you effectively are doing is getting a fire every 180 degrees even on both sides of the engine.Then you pair the cyls firing after each other and pair them togethor.You run those pipes passenger bank into one side of the split housing of the turbo and driver side into the other side.This will make the turbo come up nicely.I'll ee wat i can find out on the turbo

[hannes_slanec]

Thanks Sir,

very lessons indeed!:yes:

I dont want to disrespect you but I would prefer a twin-setup since for my opinon it is more easy to install.

In the book maximum boost is written that the turbo charger should be as close as possible at the ports, further the long pipes would radiate a lot of heat in the engine bay.

By the way, the Tec3 is f........g expensiv, if you have an old system that is laying around in your shop or another one that is right for my project I would buy it.

Thanks so far for your nice help:cheers:

Hannes Slanec

[badmatt]

Thanks Sir,

very lessons indeed!:yes:

I dont want to disrespect you but I would prefer a twin-setup since for my opinon it is more easy to install.

In the book maximum boost is written that the turbo charger should be as close as possible at the ports, further the long pipes would radiate a lot of heat in the engine bay.

By the way, the Tec3 is f........g expensiv, if you have an old system that is laying around in your shop or another one that is right for my project I would buy it.

Thanks so far for your nice help:cheers:

Hannes Slanec

The tec 3 is very resonably priced when you copmpare it to buying say a BS3 Unit and AMS boost controler, and a programable MSD setup the Tec 3 is by far cheaper and out preforms. and does all the funtions that it would take from MSD, the BS3 and an AMS 1000 boost controler.

[hannes_slanec]

What is the cheapest price I can get the Tec3 for and where?

[TOM NELSON]

If you're going to build a twin thats what i would prefer i would use our 72's we have a killer set-up with just the right ex wheel.They will set you back 1600 each.They will be good for over 1800 on a bbc.I can sell you a tec 3r for 2800.00 which is killer because as of last week they went up 300 dollars with everything you need to run.I don't have any used.

[hannes_slanec]

Is the same price for what I will get it anywere else how it looks but I think I will buy it from you since I want to give you something back for time and efford:yes:

The Turbos would explode my budget 3200 for a pair, you told me that you have a Source for remanufactured ones what I would prefer. I need to have an eye on the price since the the turbos and the EFI would be 6000$ alone:rolleyes:

Thanks Hannes

[camcojb]

Is the same price for what I will get it anywere else how it looks but I think I will buy it from you since I want to give you something back for time and efford:yes:

The Turbos would explode my budget 3200 for a pair, you told me that you have a Source for remanufactured ones what I would prefer. I need to have an eye on the price since the the turbos and the EFI would be 6000$ alone:rolleyes:

Thanks Hannes

just realize that doing a twin turbo is the most expensive of all the forced induction builds. I think it's the best way to go if it fits the budget, but it's never cheap, and requires a lot more fabrication.

Jody

[hannes_slanec]

I know about that fact but Mr Nelson told me that there are several sources to get remanufactured turbos, so why to pay 1600 for one if I can get a pair for that price?

As for the Tec3 I got a friend who would sell me the computer but he got only coil packs for a 4 banger, I think about to buy that but I dont know if I get all the rest of the pieces for the system like the harness and so on.


Thanks

[deuce_454]

this thread is developing like most desk top racing projects.. it starts out with a goal of making a 1000 hp engine that gets decent mileage... and this problem is solved.. you get good advice on how to.. what cam to get etc.. a turbo this size propably costs under 1000 bucks if you get the right one... and then you start worrying about how it will look, and twins etc...

there are cars out there running sum 5 second 1/8 mile with a single turbo and flipped shortie headers... you could most likely mount a pair of truck logs backwards and run tubes to a single (with the split housing you wont get much benefit from running twins anyway) and meet your powergoal...

why have you suddently decided you need twins? the story about distance dont fly, if you want a turbo to spool well you want longer softly flowing tubes.. look at tom nelson´s you would add perhaps 10 inches of pipe to run a big single... i doubt you can feel the difference.. and i dont understand why you would spend twice as much money on somthing that only makes a difference with the hood open

but if you must then look into some masterpower T70´s they are cheap and good quality.. think they cost somthing like 550 dollars new.. just remenber you also need two wastegates, twice as much tubing, custom headers etc---

[hannes_slanec]

Why do you say suddenly, look how the thread is named.
I read Corky Bells Maximum Boost and try to keep his advice.

What to buy a book for if I dont follow the hints in it.

Also Mr Nelson build Twins always.

I am sure the Masterpower´s are fine but my problme is I am not a turbo pro and I need a exact recommendation.

I cannot order a Turbo by saying i want a T70 or something else sincen a lot of parameters are to know to order a turbocharger.

I trust that Mr Nelson will tell me the source as soon as got time and the right turbo-parameters as well.

Thanks so far:thumbsup:

Hannes Slanec

[badmatt]

ok, you posted this same **** on TTF and eveybody there told you a pair of S475's or a pair of master power GT45's

Jesse on TTF has made 1450hp to the tires with out an intercooler on e-85 with two GT45's from master power... you honestly just have to do more reading and research, and if you dont want to a turbo system is not for you then.

not to be an ass, but seriously do more reading and research on how some of the other guys are doing, because garenteed other people have been in your situation, there is such thing call a "search" botton.

[deuce_454]

there are actually shops out there that know what they sell you know! its not like buying vegetables, you call up a shop and say "i need a set of yurbos for this and that engine".. and they will spec you a pair that works for what you want.. all you need is to figure out what you want and what you can afford....

i bought a pair of turbos from Schwartz racing and after discussing my costumers needs and how the car was going to be driven he sent me a matched set.. and i didnt worry about inducer or exducer size, housing trim A/R ratios or anything... he even spec'ed me a Masterpower T70 for my ls1... no engineering charge, jus the price of the turbo...

so id say give jeff a call (you can find him in the vendors side bar under schwartz extreme performance) and he will hook you up with somthing in your price range...

[hannes_slanec]

[QUOTE=badmatt;155887]ok, you posted this same **** on TTF and eveybody there told you a pair of S475's or a pair of master power GT45's

Jesse on TTF has made 1450hp to the tires with out an intercooler on e-85 with two GT45's from master power... you honestly just have to do more reading and research, and if you dont want to a turbo system is not for you then.

not to be an ass, but seriously do more reading and research on how some of the other guys are doing, because garenteed other people have been in your situation, there is such thing call a "search" botton.[/QUOTE

What a useless posting,

:hail: I AM SORRY FOR TRYING TO GET INFORMATIONS:hail:

Obviously you dont have the smallest idea how much research I do and how much I read but until now I did not get the infos I need.

How you said your self, I have different recommendations and all for different sizes so and what is the bigger problme, always only about sizing but no additional parameters.

I dont understand how to plot a turbo map and all that stuff and if I had found a forum where I can communicate to Tom Nelson I would have asked my questions first and only there anyway.

If I ask the same question ten times it is also not your business, if you are not interested to help why do you answer to such a thread???

We have an old saying in Austira: If you cannot say something intelligent, say nothing at all.

Thanks at to all the other how spend time to help me

Hannes:thumbsup:

[hannes_slanec]

there are actually shops out there that know what they sell you know! its not like buying vegetables, you call up a shop and say "i need a set of yurbos for this and that engine".. and they will spec you a pair that works for what you want.. all you need is to figure out what you want and what you can afford....

i bought a pair of turbos from Schwartz racing and after discussing my costumers needs and how the car was going to be driven he sent me a matched set.. and i didnt worry about inducer or exducer size, housing trim A/R ratios or anything... he even spec'ed me a Masterpower T70 for my ls1... no engineering charge, jus the price of the turbo...

so id say give jeff a call (you can find him in the vendors side bar under schwartz extreme performance) and he will hook you up with somthing in your price range...

Sounds interesting, I will look what Tom Nelsons opinon for the parameters is and what shops he know for used ones, does Schwartz selling remanufactured ones too.

To ask at a shop is what I did first but they offered me just what they had and sometimes also that no-named turbos from China. As far as I know what exactly I need I will look for a shop how got remanufactured turbos altough I still hope that Tom will find the name of the shop he was talking about.

Thank you Douce

Hannes:thumbsup: