Mig Welder Recommendations [Archive]

Buttz1969

05-12-2008, 09:09 AM

I will be getting my first MIG welder in the near future and I am looking for some recommendations.

My first projects will include repairing the frame for my 69 Camaro (the subframe bolting locations) and welding up the seems of the subframe. From there, it will be a lot of body work type stuff like new floorpans, panel repair, etc.

Do I need a 230V machine or will 115V cut it?

Some that I have been considering so far include:

Millermatic 140 (w/ or w/o Auto-Set)
Hobart Handler 140
Hobart Handler 187
Lincoln 140T

I included the Hobart's because they seem to be much cheaper and seem to be decent machines. In the 230V world, I think the Hobart 187 is the only one that fits my budget (~$600).

Other suggestions or personal opinions?

redfire69

05-14-2008, 04:27 AM

115v should be fine up to 3/16 with light duty cycles. They're all pretty good choices for under $600. I've got the Lincoln Pro140 and had good luck with those types of jobs.

chevyIIpost

05-14-2008, 06:03 AM

A 110v unit will work fine as stated just watch your voltage. Any drop in voltage will effect the machines performance. Don't skimp on the extension cord!!!!! Also check the voltage at your garage outlets under load. If they lower than 110v your welders performance will drop off and make it harder to do a good weld on 3/16 material. I like my 110v machine better than the 230v unit for sheet metal. I have more control on the lower settings. Enjoy welding opens up a whole NEW WORLD of fabrication possibillities!!!!

Buttz1969

05-14-2008, 07:59 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I am going to try to find a used 230V unit so that I don't kick myself later for getting something too small.

I just missed a great deal on a Millermatic 180, so I'll keep an eye out.

rubadub

05-15-2008, 10:58 AM

Heres this http://www.1969supersport.com/smthoughts.html.

So take the floor pans for instance, around .040 thick, this is new metal, now take a close look at some of this 40 year old metal, especially if you sand blast it.

You will see like pock marks in some of it, so that is thinner yet, and some times only half as thick as as new metal.

Once you start welding you will blow holes in the metal, and this problem will not go away, and it is really aggravating.

Go with the 110 machine, and don't think that they aren't the real deal. I retired four years ago, I'm 66 years old, and up until I retired I worked on a lot of cars and pickups for extra cash, more mechanical then body work, I used a 110 miller sidekick, for close to twenty years, and it did everything I ever needed it to do.

These 110's will handle anything on these cars.

Get one with an adjustable wire speed and adjustable voltage, .023 wire, and a 75% argon 25% co2 tank mix. This is just a suggestion, it works for me.

Good welders could probably weld this sheet metal with anything, but if your like most of us hobbists, we need all the help you can get, get the 110.

One more suggestion here, get yourself a good auto darkening welding helmet, and a leather apron and welding jacket and gloves, my son in law gave me a nice heavy leather welding apron, and I tried it and thought it was kind of cumbersome to work with.

I got burned pretty good in the pubic hair area, and I was wearing a welding jacket, now I put that leather apron on any time I'm even doing a spot weld.

Rob

Buttz1969

05-16-2008, 05:18 AM

Thanks for the suggestion Rob.

On the 230V machines, their amperage range still goes down to the same area where the 115V machines do. Wouldn't this allow me to set it up close to the same as you had described or in reality do the larger machines just not make it down as low?

I keep flipping between the two. I will probably just see what the local shop recommends (although, if they are salesmen by nature they will most likely recommend 230V for other reasons).

dhondagod

05-16-2008, 11:33 AM

Running smaller wire and lower amperage on a 220 machine can be done easier than getting more "heat" out of a 110 machine when you need it.

And the times youll need that extra heat is when your welding something that matters like frame/suspension/rollcage etc...

Find a Miller 175 or Lincoln and dont look back. Youll only have to buy it once.

FWIW I have a Lincoln SP100, ESAB 253, 300amp Miller TIG and a 320amp LINDE 3-phase welder. Each have their place but the big LINDE will weld sheet metal better than the 110 LINCOLN.

Chris:cool:

dhutton

05-16-2008, 02:35 PM

I picked up a Hobart Handler 180 at Tractor Supply for a very good price with a discount coupon a couple of years ago. It has worked well for me, no complaints.

Don

rubadub

05-16-2008, 05:47 PM

These 110 welders will weld a car frame easy, there not very thick. My neighbor went to body shop technical school, and all there welders were 110 millers. There was 24 of them in the class.

You can get a bigger machine, but when you start welding you will find out how easy it is to blow through the metal, if your a professional or a really good welder, then you could probably weld it with the bigger machine.

I've welded off and on for 50 years, and I am still not a good welder, you have to work at it a lot to be good.

Rob

rubadub

05-16-2008, 06:05 PM

rubadub

05-16-2008, 06:10 PM

If your still unsure, call of couple of body shops and see what they use.

The Miller 175 is a good machine, but then you have to have a plug in or two, or a heavy long extension cord, anything over a 110 is not to practical for auto body work.

I have put mine into the back of a pickup and went across town and welded some stuff up, any 110 household current, they are handy.

Rob

chevyIIpost

05-23-2008, 06:05 AM

ironworks

05-23-2008, 11:38 AM

My vote would be for the 110v unit if you will be doing 75% sheet metal work. The size of the gun and cable will be smaller and the heat range adjustments will be finer and more precise allowing for better work. And you will still be able to do a good job on 3/16 material which is almost everything structural in the chassis. Get 130 amp unit and a good cord and enjoy. Look for a unit where the heat range adjustment is variable and not 10 individual notches. I have been fustrated before wanting a half step. I also agree with the .023 wire size. .030 is too large for nice sheet metal work.

You are 100% correct. the 023 wire is the trick. You want the wire to melt before the sheetmetal. If the wire is thicker then your material you will burn up the material quickly. When you weld sheetmetal just be sure you have someway to cool that panel after your tack welds, whether by compressed air or a wet rag. Just work slow. I have 2 110 voly migs that we use for tacking up sheetmetal panels before we tig them in place. Or on a panel we can not get behind to metalfinish. I like the infinite adjustment of the miller 110 and I have had better experience with there parts warranty then a lincoln. I have 7 millers and one lincoln. But I have had my 220 volt lincoln since day 1. 7 years ago. I had a parts replacement issue with my lincoln and have always bought miller ever since.

Good luck, I bought my first welder 8 years ago and the rest is history. Anything is possible with welding.

67rsssls

05-31-2008, 12:50 PM

After years of using a 110 volt Craftsman I purchased a Hobart 187 back around Christmas. I couldn't be happier with it. It performs better than the 110 volt on sheet metal and has the ability to make nice welds on thicker material. I also purchased mine from Tractor Supply with a 10% discount coupon they sent in the mail. Something else that may help you is knowing that Hobart is now owned by Miller.

Blue70

05-31-2008, 06:27 PM

I have a 110V Miller (Think it's a 135.. It's over a friends house right now so I can't check) and LOVE it..
I've done everything from sheet metal to making my own box frame for my Rat Rod..
As stated earlier, it will be more than enough for welding to a stock frame, as they are thin, and mine had great penetration on much thicker..

Buttz1969

06-02-2008, 07:49 AM

I am the proud owner of a Millermatic 175 now.

Against most of the recommendations here, I went for a 230V unit, but I did get a heck of a deal on it. Now I just have to improve the user, so next up is a welding class at a local vocational school. Then it's on to making that hunk of metal in my garage into a car again.

Should be fun, and I can't wait to get started! :cheers:

ironworks

06-02-2008, 08:34 PM

Good luck that is how I started almost 10 years ago. The best thing I ever did. Obviously......

brans72

09-07-2008, 08:12 AM

70 chevelle

09-07-2008, 03:44 PM

I recently purchased a HH187 and could not be more happy with it. Try it and you will not be disappointed.You can have one for a great deal if you look a little.

MtotheIKEo

09-08-2008, 12:21 AM

I did pretty much the opposite of everyone here and bought a Millermatic 251. In hindsight I wish I would have settled for a 210 and put the extra money towards TIG machine or plasma.

I am quite happy with my machine though, and through a bunch of side jobs it has paid for itself 3 or 4 times over.

Garage Dog 65

09-08-2008, 08:39 PM

not to crash the thread :D but this might help others i was wondering for myself what are the pros and cons with a welder like miller 140 vs miller 140 autoset? this would be used for sheetmetal work mostly but would also be used around house. i am curious what you guys recomm before cashing in on a 110v welder ( i want something portable etc other wise i would get a 180 or bigger welder). thanks guys

You could check miller's web site (miller welds) for the details and specifications - but bacically they are the same machine with the 140 and/or 180 with A/S having a computer system that will automatically select the volts/amps and wire speed for you based on the thickness of the material you select. It's designed for the home hobby person who hasn't been through training and the A/S setting will help a novice person get the machine up, running properly and build confidence. Some people are a little intimidated by welding and all the variables you need to figure out to weld properly (wire size, wire type, volts, amps, wire speed and the differences for various metals)

On the 140 manual version you have to look those settings up yourself on a Mig setting chart/guide/wheel - and then manually enter those settings via the knobs on the face of the manual machine. The Miller version of the MIG guide is about 3 dollars at your local welding supply store.

The A/S version of the 140 and 180 lets you set it and forget it - and some people prefer that. More complex functionality inside the box can also be just one more thing that will break down and need repaired...

Jim

TonyG

10-06-2008, 10:22 PM

I just purchased a Hobart Handler 140 two weeks ago.. still haven't used it yet. But I purchased it for building my 60 Beetle and my 65 chevelle. I have welded some before; but I wouldn't claim to be a welder by any means. I looked at a few different models and this one seemed be a great beginner/learner model. It has full adjustment for wirefeed and four settings for voltage. I paid just under 600 with the 3 yr warranty.

I looked at the auto-select models that were a bit cheaper; but I just don't see that being good for myself or anyone really interested in learning to weld.

Just my input, I wish I had used it already to give my opinion of that.

Best of luck to the OP.

wingman

10-08-2008, 11:26 AM

Please let me add my 2 cents. I build hotrods, mostly early Chevies. While using a Miller 135 my welder (he has worked as a rig welder in a refinery for many years) made the comment that he could hardly get enough penetration while installing 5/16" boxing plates. I bought a Miller 180 and now everybody is happy. The cost is a little higher, approx $800.00, but it's well worth it. It seems to work well at both ends of the material thickness spectrum, i.e. chassis and sheet metal.

Buttz1969

10-14-2008, 10:41 AM

Just an update since this thread popped up again...

I ended up with a Miller 175, and it has been cruising along with no problems. So far I have started welding all of the seams in the subframe, and floor pans are next on the horizon. So that will cover a good range of thickness and I'll have a better opinion then.

For the frame, I have had no problems, except some old crud stuck in crevices that burns when I weld. Any ideas on how to get 40 years of crud off a frame? I have tried wire wheels, fiber discs, grinding wheel, etc. with little luck.

Derek Miller

11-25-2008, 10:56 PM

"For the frame, I have had no problems, except some old crud stuck in crevices that burns when I weld. Any ideas on how to get 40 years of crud off a frame? I have tried wire wheels, fiber discs, grinding wheel, etc. with little luck."

The best way to get rid of the "crud" or rust is to sand blast it out. You will never be able to grind it off because of the pits. If you cannot afford a small pressure pot unit, you could always get a cheaper sand blasting gun with a hose that you stick directly in a bucket of sand (much slower but will eventually accomplish the job). Instead of the typical "silica sand" that most people use, I use a copper slag product. It does not break down as fast as the sand and will not embed itself in the metal. It does pit the metal a little more at first but after recycling it a few times will produce nice results. We have been shooting PPG, Valspar and House of Color for years and the paint reps would rather see us use the copper slag for blasting and not silica sand. They have had paint issues which they think is related to the silica that has been embeded in the metal. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Thanks,
Derek

countryboy

01-25-2009, 11:30 AM

I have a Snap-on(blue point) 250 amp monster I love but if I had to buy one tomorrow I would call HTP. I started dealing with them about 2 years ago and they can not be out done! They are almost the cheapest with great quality units. They have a great warranty but do stuff a little different. When a machine breaks down from any other company you have to ship it or take it to a local shop that they approve. If your smart enough to weld your smart enough to fix your welder. They will tell you exactly what to check and and how, to diagnose the problem. Then they ship you the parts first rate shipping. and you are going the next day! They will do it the normal way if you prefer. But for the price, quality, and service I will use them from now on. I have a plasma that works flawlessly.

http://www.htpweld.com/

The reason you haven't heard of them is b/c they don't advertise. They have grown by word of mouth. The bike shops have been using them for years. Thats how I learned about them. (I build bikes part time.)

irocracer89

03-15-2009, 08:28 PM

Been tossing this one around for a while, giving the 110v my vote... Just started on my 89 IROC, and no welder by any means. Just working on getting the garage finished so work can be done. Plus my garage is only on a 10ga 30 amp circuit, may have to redo this in the future.

bigtyme1

03-16-2009, 06:22 AM

I picked up a Miller DVI at SEMA two years ago. Best thing is I save about 500.00 plus free shipping and a cover.Total was around $1300.00. Great welder does everything I need. Next will be a tig.

Arai

03-18-2009, 12:29 AM

I have a miller 180 and LOVE it! :thumbsup:

rich-allen

03-18-2009, 09:12 AM

PFFFT!

Buy a 5000 amp and don't look back. :willy:

GregWeld

03-26-2009, 09:52 AM

Get a 220V machine -- I have a Lincoln 175 and a Miller 210 -- GAVE away the Lincoln - useless little pile of junk. If you can weld -- then you can weld. Saying the 110V machines are better at sheetmetal is like saying one putter is better than another is crazy -- you can either putt or you can't. If you can't then find out what you're doing wrong!

It's also like skiing... if you can ski - you can ski on anything anywhere anytime...

Get the big machine - find a used one - and then be able to do anything you'll ever do!

GregWeld

03-26-2009, 10:08 AM

Someone said to get a good autodarkening helmet -- and they're absolutely 100% right!!

Another tip - PRACTICE on scrap - and don't go by the settings for the helmet -- If I use the recommended settings for my helmet - I can't see a dang thing! It's way too dark! So I set it where I can see! PERIOD. I'm old (55) and wear bifocals... and if I can't see the weld line and the puddle - then there's no point in even starting! LOL

Also - when I'm welding - skip welding or tacking etc - I SNIP the weld wire at an angle every weld... it uses a bit of wire - but so what. What I want is a good finished product. Wire is CHEAP. Just snip off the end each time you start a weld.... and your starts will be much better. ALSO CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN.... the cleaner the pieces the better. End of story. Don't skip that part.

BRIAN

03-27-2009, 09:47 AM

I have an HTP 220 machine that about 13 years ago replaced a 110 lINCOLN and the low end is better on the htp then the little Lincoln. I would rather have extra power that I can turn down then too little.

Honestly a tig is just a little more and is 100% better for sheetmetal work. Harder to learn but you won't be upgrading. Once you spend time grinding down a mig weld and then realize you can't get out all the warp as the weld is too brittle you will want a tig.

GregWeld

03-27-2009, 10:02 AM

Good response Brian!

I totally 100% agree with your TIG comments! I have a Miller Dynasty 200 DX TIG -- and use it for all be the most rudimentary welding. But the cost for the average hot rodder is just too high. Labor - for all of us except the pros - is FREE... and $3K for a decent TIG machine - on top of 1 to 2K for a must own MIG is the roadblock here.

It's kind of like my Cold Cut Saw.... once you own one of these - you'll never cut stock on anything else.... but the barrier to ownership is that it's an expensive little guy!

Here's my personal view of "the Shed and it's equipment" (see my shed on the forum here that has pics etc of peoples garages). THIS IS AN INVESTMENT IN MY HOBBY that hobby won't stop with one car = it's not one and done... it's a lifetime of doing for myself and for others... so I like to INVEST in equipment that can help me do a better job - learn more - doesn't limit what I can do - in other words - I have OPTIONS... Well --- that ---- and the fact that I can afford it! That's where belonging to a group or club can help the guys that can't afford to do the car and buy all the tools etc -- there is someone somewhere that will be happy to help you! I weld and cut and bend stuff all the time for my buddies....

V8TV

03-28-2009, 05:16 PM

I hear the HTP Mig 200 is going to be on sale in April...

T-Type

12-06-2009, 10:56 PM

was doing a search as it looks like i'm going to have to take care of a few things myself vs. farming them out...never been scared to learn so what the heck.....but found this thread and thought i'd bring it back from the dead vs. starting a whole new one as it's got lots of good info....

i've read thru the thread and see there are pro's and con's to both 110 and 220 machines......does anyone have an opinion about the dual voltage machines? i believe u just change the end of the plug for desired voltage and plug it in.... if i remember correctly it may have been the miller 211 that had this feature....

GregWeld

12-07-2009, 02:45 AM

That's a "CONVENIENCE" item rather than a quality item... it makes the machine capable of welding with only 110V so you can take it to your buddys house and use his garage for a project if you have to... but that doesn't answer the question of the value of a 220V vs 110V machine. If you're on a budget - get the bet 110V machine you can afford... but if you can step it up a bit - then don't short sheet yourself... get a 220V machine... they're better in lots of ways..

Right now - there's lots of good used or barely used machines to be had - so check with your local pawn shop to see what somebody has brought in... Hobart is now owned by Miller... and they have some decent machines for the $$ too.

Jon69RagTop

12-07-2009, 04:31 PM

Try Tractor Supply for a Hobart 187. It's a 220 machine and even comes with a Miller Gun. I love it.

Bought my welding cart for the machine locally at Harbour Freight, and had it cut and modified before assembly was complete.

SWAPMEETCRAZY

12-07-2009, 07:07 PM

Just bought a miller 180 auto set--Would sell the wife before the miller!!!!!!:unibrow: :unibrow:

DRJDVM's '69

12-08-2009, 10:59 AM

When I was researching before I bought mine, the general theme was "buy the biggest machine that you can afford". If you continue in the hobby and do more and more welding (like alot of guys do once they get a machine), you will "outgrow" a smaller machine pretty quick.

I bought a Miller 175 220V machine and have been very happy with it. It does everything I will need it to do since I have no plans to do stuff over 3/8 inch.

I would at least get a 220V machine.

jmac

12-08-2009, 12:49 PM

Swapmeetcrazy,
How do you like that 180 autoset? I'm looking at the same machine and just looking for some feedback. Seems like a good machine for the money and would handle just about anything i could throw at it. It goes up to 5/16ths right?

GregWeld

12-08-2009, 12:54 PM

jmac -

My friends at Divers just kicked all their Autosets to the curb... they hated them and had nothing but problems with 'em...

I don't know what the problems were but they quit using them. Just for what it's worth.

CRCRFT78

12-08-2009, 04:40 PM

NBR521

01-12-2010, 03:09 AM

I love my Lincoln Power Mig 140C and 255XT. I've never had any problems with them and I really like how easy it is to lay a nice weld down.

GregWeld

01-13-2010, 03:12 PM

Why don't they just use their "auto-sets" in the manual mode? I've been looking at the Miller 211 with Auto-Set & the MVP option so I can use it elsewhere without having to worry about having 220. Is having an auto-set with a manual mode any different than having just a manual mode machine?

Sorry it took so long to respond to the question - I missed your post.

The problems they were having was with the electronics... blowing boards and repairs etc. Not that they couldn't bypass the auto set - it was a RELIABILITY issue and in a shop where guys depend on their welders working it was a problem.