1970 Firebird suggestions

[70Firbird]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum and have recently just started working on a 70 bird. I've done some searching and have come across some good pieces of advice. However, I'm not sure if all this will work together so I'm posting to get some suggestions.

I have not decided on what motor setup I will be going with yet, but most definitely it will be a big block pushing over 600 hp atleast. With that said, I wanted to beef up the suspension/chassis/brakes first. This is NOT going to be a straight line car. I would like a setup that can deal with the car being driven daily but at the same time suspension that will give me performance when I decide to get on it. Any advice would be appreciated.

[bigtyme1]

welcome aboard, There's plenty of pontiac info on here just look around. You might want to look for Frank from prodigy customs. he can hook you up with most of you suspension parts. I have a 454 if your interested.

http://www.prodigycustoms.com/

[NOT A TA]

First of all WELCOME! Got pics? Nice to see another 70 getting the treatment. Also glad to hear it'll be driven! There's lots of info here if you use the search function in each section to look up topics you're thinking about.

It'd be easy to just say build it like I did mine and list out the mods I did and parts I used, but that might not be the best thing for your intended usage and budget. We're here to help you spend ALL of your disposable income!

Your request was kinda vague. Answers could range from better shocks and semi metallic pads to replacing your frame with a full frame and complete suspension, brakes and wheel/tire combos depending on your budget.

If you are a little more specific about the usage the car might see like track time (autocross, dragstrip,road course, top speed etc) and what kind of street driving (# of passengers, payload,types of roads etc) and a ballpark budget you'll probably get a bunch of very good suggestions.

[NOT A TA]

Forgot I don't have a sig pic here so here's mine.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/IMG_0198.jpg

[70Firbird]

For the more competitive aspect, I'd like it to be set up more along the lines of roadcourse style racing while still being able to hold it's own on the drag strip. I'm not looking for a crazy prostreet set up, but I would still like to be able to pull in good numbers in all good fun. As far as daily driving, it would typically be 1-2 people in the car, occassionally 4, but I wouldn't really be pushing the car with that many people. Typical highway/city driving, occassional traffic. No dirt road type driving. I'd also still like to be able to drive the car on road trips ie. Los Angeles to San Francisco or Vegas etc.

Bigtyme1: Thanks for that link i'll be checking it out over the next few days.

NOT A TA: That is a very nice bird you've got. That's actually what I had in mind for mine. I know someone with an old TA sitting around under a heap of junk. I'm going to try and ask if I can buy his TA fenders and air dams off of him.

[70Firbird]

I picked her up last week looking like this:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/rockwitme318/Firebird/01010001040801030420080421b11a5a29e.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/rockwitme318/Firebird/01150801030101040620080421a8853618e.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/rockwitme318/Firebird/01011001150701040220080421a36647ac0.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/rockwitme318/Firebird/01010501150801030920080421ca8098b49.jpg

[70Firbird]

After long hours under the sun, I did the best I could temporarily:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/rockwitme318/Firebird/0503081331.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/rockwitme318/Firebird/0503081331a.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/rockwitme318/Firebird/0503081331b.jpg

[sledge33]

hello,I also have a 71 bird i have been working on.just put in a 455 from another firebird i bought a while back.Frank at prodigy got me the g-bar and mini tubs from dse.20x10 with a 315 rear tire and it sits low.its stripped down ready to go to paint.i hope to be able to drive it some this summer but you know how paint shops are.
call frank at prodigy he has always treated me right and got me just what i needed.

[70Firbird]

Thanks sledge33, will do, Frank sounds like a very helpful guy from the responses I have been getting.

[NOT A TA]

Looks like a pretty good car you've got to start with there. Are the wheels on it original 70 rims? If you're not sure get the codes off of them (by the valve stem I think)and post them up here. Someone will tell you if they're the highly sought after rims. If they are you could Ebay them and probably get enough from someone restoring an original 70 TA to buy a nice set of new wheels.

Mine was an Esprit, I added all the TA body parts. At least you got a rear spoiler a cool hood and some wheels! All I got was 3 dog dish hubcaps!

Sounds like a suspension setup something like mine for would be fine for you. Stock subframe with aftermarket springs, sways, shocks, bushings, connectors etc. If you lower it but don't mini tub it be carefull how wide you go with the rear tires since there might be 4 adults a full tank and a spare.

I got my MOMO wheel from Frank (too bad it wasn't straight for this pic)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Firebird%20dash%20and%20gauges/WheelNutzonThe14Carshoot1006.jpg

[70Firbird]

Very nice interior! I'm missing my carpet, I tore it out cuz it was all tattered. Passenger seat has a rip, driver seat has a seat cover. Amazingly my headliner and everything is still in good condition, but there's a lot of work to be done. Where did you find all your interior pieces such as your center console? I'm not sure if I want to lower it, but why not mini tub it? I would think that would be the only way to go with the amount of power I'd like to put down (shafiroff motor). Would an aftermarket subframe be more straight line oriented? Any reason why you chose to keep the stock subframe?

btw I really like your side exhaust... Mine is an Espirit as well, the hood on my car used to be an original formula hood that i cut to look better. I didn't like the way the vents bent forward like a retarded duck. what kind of motor are you running?

[Marcus SC&C]

Cool cars and `70 is my favorite year. I should never have sold my `70 RAIII Formula 400 (or the 7 other 2nd Gens I`ve had...). Oh well...
These cars are a big step ahead of the earlier generation F cars in handling and drivability. Their bumpsteer is comparable overall with a 2002 and their geometry isn`t too bad at all,just too mild. They respond very well to a more performance oriented alignment too.
First step make sure all the boring,normal stuff is in good shape. Subframe bushings,tie rod ends,etc. and bring them up to par.
Next subframe connectors. Solid subframe bushings are also a good idea.
Now springs and shocks. Matched front and rear springs from a reputable company OR make the decision to upgrade the rear leafs to a link/coil over conversion like the excellent Alston G-Bar. Don`t skimp on the shocks! I know it`s tempting but don`t do it! At least stock replacement Bilsteins of Konis for a "driving around car" and adj. Varishock aluminum shocks are a real nice upgrade if the budget allows. Good shocks are worth every penny and more.
Geometry and alignment, the stock geometry is okay but very mild. A StreetComp Stage 1 package really punches up the geometry as well as allowing for a lot more alignment adjustment. We have guys pulling over 1G at less than 2* of body roll (on DOT tires) with StreetComp equipped 2nd gens! Dial it all in with a good alignment,shoot for -1/2* camber and +5.5* caster. 1/8" total toe in or 1/16" if you like the car a little more responsive.
Last step,tune with swaybars. With good front geometry a huge front bar isn`t necessary for a street car. If the car pushed a little try a rear bar. If it`s loose try a larger front one. Don`t spend money on bars until the car`s together in it`s more of less final configuration. You can`t tune what you haven`t driven yet.
Bells and whistles,these are mostly tuning aids and misc. cool stuff. Front coil overs,a custom Lee steering box,tubular lower A arms, underhood bracing etc. If you choose well they can really enhance the performance and give you more tuning options but get the big stuff done first and you`ll be better off unless you can afford to do a whole bunch of stuff all at once.
If you have any other questions go ahead and give us a call and take advantage of our free "Suspension Counseling Service". :yes: Mark SC&C

[NOT A TA]

My interior was red when I got my car and I like the old school black vinyl look so I changed the interior color. My console came in the car(with the standard issue cigarette burn holes) and I repaired it with a vinyl repair kit from The Eastwood Co. before dying it with S.E.M. vinyl dye (I have mixed atmy local paint shop) shot with a jamb gun.

Sure mini tub it! I was just warning you not to try to go too wide with the tires without doing the tubs since you said you'd be carrying a full load of people. I get away with 315's in the rear without any mods at all but if I carried 4 adults and extra weight I'd probably cut the tires on the fender lip.

As far as suspension Mark pretty much nailed that. I wish I'd done solid body mounts instead of the polys and weld in connectors instead of the bolt in ones. I'll change them both eventually but for now the car works fine and I'll spend the money on entry fees!

I'm taking my car in to get the front end realigned in the morning. When I replaced all of the steering and suspension parts I used the recommendations from Hotchkis for the settings when using their springs, sways etc. and I'm wearing out the outside edges of the front tires using the car on road courses. I think maybe the camber isn't right but I'm no front end guru. I'm gonna have the front set up with Marks specs and try them out since he was kind enough to post them.

The engine in my car is a Pontiac 400 I pulled from a GTO clone build that burned up I bought and parted out a couple years ago. '75 block, '68#16 heads,Canton RR pan, MSD pro billet W/6A box & Blaster 2, Speed Demon on Edelbrock fed by Holley Blue, Flowkooler pump,Performance Products balancer. Nothing really powerfull or exotic just solid reliable performance. I use a 2.41 rear for high speed stuff and a 3.73 for drags and short stuff and have a couple different sets of wheels/tires.

I like your scoop chop! It'll give your car a different look.

[70Firbird]

NOT A TA: are you planning on eventually switching motors or you gonna stick with your 400?

Marcus: Thanks for the advice. How much would you estimate all the parts to be? I'd like to change all the bushings along with anything that is subject to wear and tear. I'd also def want to get rid of the rear leafs etc. New shocks, springs/coils, streetcomp kit, as well as a mini tub kit? Whatever you would recommend. Give me a couple package combinations to look at. I'm a very performance oriented guy, but I don't want to over do it and completely trash any comfort since this will be a daily. I'm also planning to run tires with a little thicker profile for a more old school rally look at the same time absorbing most bumps on the road.

[NOT A TA]

I'll be running the 400 thats in it for a while unless I break it. I'll be getting a bigger carb, bigger exhaust manifolds, and electric exhaust cutouts before putting it back on the chassis dyno to adjust the distributor curve and carb settings by using oxygen sensors in the new sections of exhaust tubing before the sidepipes.

I promised myself I wouldn't make the car a lot faster till I address safety issues. So no big power for now. I'm going to buy/install an oil pressure fuel pump shutoff for the elec pump, full cage, Kirkey seat, new Harnesses, door net, Fire system, Fire suit and get a Hans device for my Aria helmet.

I got warnings at the ECTA and NASA events about going fast without much safety equipment. The ECTA will only let you run 135 MPH without at least a rollbar(go over 140 and they throw you out till you come back with one) and NASA tech officials gave me a "chat" about running around 150 on the back straight at Road Atlanta without a bar/cage etc.

Those 160 speedos in the early 2nd gens are way off at high speeds just so you know. With stock tire height, original trans and rear gears if the speedo was reading 160-165 it was recorded at 134-137 through the timing traps at the ECTA.

[70Firbird]

My speedo is opposite actually. It says im doing 60 when i'm actually doing 80. I need to add about 1/3 on top of whatever speed it says. So I take it you built your car for track purposes?

[NOT A TA]

Someone may have changed the trans(from a car with a different rear ratio) or the rear, or put a taller wheel/tire combo on your car that changed the overall rear ratio.

I started in the early 90's with the idea of painting the car with a more "modern" look which evolved into what it is today. I drive it on the street, drags (mostly group rental days and test and tunes), Road tracks for HPDE events (now in NASA HPDE 2), and ran the ECTA (will go back with safety equipment to run 175), and future plans look toward open road time trials like the Silver State Challenge.

I'd like to run a verified 200 MPH eventually but it'll take a lot more power to get there as well as some aerodynamic wind tunnel testing. I've got some front end body mods in mind which include a bigger front spoiler W/splitter and under body air management. I want to build those things and test in the tunnel before trying it out in the real world. Walking away from a problem at 175-200 isn't likely so I'd rather plan well before any attempts.

My car was a cover/feature car in sept 05 Popular Hot Rodding shot at a NMCA race in FL and in the Sept 06 issue of HOT ROD in an article about the ECTA shot in NC if you have any of the old magazines around.

Right after the HOT ROD article came out my tow rig was stolen with my 66 Stang in the trailer along with most of my tools while moving to FL. After that I bought a new rig and finished moving, then the new house was burglarized and everything I owned was stolen while I was in new england trying to sell my old house. The house was flooded by the water feed for the icemaker that went to the fridge they stole. Then the black mold started and when I got there a couple months later after selling the NE house the FL house was completly wrecked by mold. Needless to say I didn't get the cars out much in 07.

[70Firbird]

wow I don't know what I would do if that happened to me. Glad to see you keep coming back. Well my friend is about to buy my other car weds so i'll have about 7k to play with... i got to start looking into some of the parts b/c i dont know how much they cost yet

[72blackbird]

70Firbird,
You have a good starting point with your car- it's not necessary to spend a lot of coin for a gen-2 'Bird, since the car doesn't know what it is until you bolt all of the parts together. I personally would rather spend $30k in the best Pontiac parts and put together an insanely fast Firebird, instead of the same money on a relatively stock car w/ old technology that will get smoked by just about any new performance car on the market today. Alot of these new Firebird owners are too focused on owning a Firebird to speculate on the musclecar market and make money- I own a Firebird because it's a cool, bad ass car and it kicks ass.

My '72 also started out as a cushy soft Esprit, but is now more of a Frankenchicken- has the T/A fenders, spoilers, Formula hood. It also alot of nice Pontiac parts- 3.08 disc-brake 10 bolt posi from a '79 T/A, 406 w/ RAIII heads, as well as alot of aftermarket gear (H-O racing sway bars and springs, Kirkey aluminum race seats, Ultra-lite gauges, etc.). I've had the car for about 20 years now, but just got back into it after playing with other toys.

Interesting treatment to the factory formula hood- reminds me of the 76 Formula hood. I have the same hood as well, planning to move the scoops back and toward the center over the engine to form a sort of power bulge (I need the extra clearance over the engine so I can run a bigger air cleaner).

I noticed you're in LA- I'm just over the hill in Santa Clarita. PM me and we'll get together, talk Firebird, and see if we can lighten that fat wallet of yours to get some speed parts for your 'Bird.

Geno

[72blackbird]

NOT A T/A,
Nice 'Bird! I can't even remember when my 'Bird was as clean as yours (well, actually it was about 15 years ago-LOL). I like the rims, the retro look rims (Torque Thrusts?) always look good with the classic lines of our cars.

From your posts I can see that great minds think alike- in the '90s I was planning to run the Silver State Classic in Nevada as well. But as you found out firsthand, you need to get the safety gear ( cage, fuel cell, fire supression system) in there first before anyone will let you run any high-speed road course or time trial event. I used to be a really gutsy kid, street and canyon racing in my 'Bird, no cage, only safety gear was a fire extinguisher. It took two blown motors for me to figure out that stock Pontiac rods and cranks are not so good for any kind of top-end racing. But those stock Pontiac motors could still rev to 6000 rpms and run at 140-145 mph for a couple of top end runs before they faded out- not bad for stock internals.

I'm in the process of stripping my interior out, sorting out my subframe and chassis, as well as setting up my garage for the serious chassis work ahead- hard to work on the car with a garage full of clutter. I'm going to get some tube steel and build a jig, so at least I'll know the chassis and cage is square. Hopefully I can still use the subframe, if it's not too out of square.

I've got two 406's- one in the car and the other torn apart already. I need to put some better pistons and rods, better valves in the heads in the running motor, so it will come out soon, get the new parts and get a quick refreshing- much quicker to do that instead of building a 462, which needs e-heads and alot more money.

Geno

[NOT A TA]

70 Firebird You'd probably do what I did. Since they left the cars in the garage I fired up the 67 RS SS Conv and went for a drive! LOL Lifes short so I just keep plugging along and don't get all depressed. Gonna have to sell a couple cars to fix the house and buy new stuff though since ins not gonna cover very much of the loss. Selling the 74 Camaro, 67 Nova, 88 Cutlass, Porsche, Dually, and already sold one of my enclosed trailers.

7 Thou ought to give ya a serious foundation for suspension stuff or get the body and interior looking pretty!

72 blackbird Funny you mention squaring up the chassis. I just went to a shop the other day to find out about checking mine. My car has a little of what I call the "Detroit lean" and I'd like to get the chassis checked. I replaced everything that could have caused problems over the past 15 years while building the car and it still has the same "lean". Figured I should make sure everythings square before the cage builder goes to town. Normally I do everything on my cars but this is two things I think I should have "experts" do.

[72blackbird]

John,
I read a thread on PY or PZ about checking your front subframe for squareness- one of the posters who rebuilds G2 'Birds posted a pic of an F-body subframe w/ dimensions to check. That pic should be very helpful in telling if your subframe is still good or needs to be replaced- will look for it if you need it.

Geno

[NOT A TA]

Geno,
I would think the body shop guys have access to that info but if you have it I'd like to see it myself. Maybe I can do some checking before I bring the car over and get it up on the table.

If you want to do top end blasts in your bird keep the gearing so you use the torque of the Pontiac engine instead of spinning it to the moon like the Chevys can. Over the winter I finished a new 2.41 rear for high speed stuff (Moser tapered bearing axles etc.) and will get to "high Speed" test it pretty soon on track. I've had it out on the street at highway speeds but nothing fast yet.

The next road track day I have planned is Aug 20 with The New York Motor Club http://www.newyorkmotorclub.com/index_s.html at a new track in NJ. http://www.njmotorsportspark.com/

The cars there will probably be a bit outta my league and I'll be like the little brother tagging along but I'll have fun learning the line on a new track!

[72blackbird]

John,
I will look for that specific thread and PM you with it.

I love top end- used to peg the stock 160 mph speedo all the time after I built my first 406 back in '91. My 'Bird had the stock 2.41 peg-leg back then, and would let me bury the needle (I'm guessing it wasn't accurate and I really wasn't going 160-170 mph). I had enough common sense to at least run V-rated tires, but my little voice was telling me that making top end blasts without a roll cage, saftey gear, and bigger brakes would catch up with me (and my luck not getting nailed by the CHP would eventually run out as well). So I cut down on the freeway blasts and persued 'safer' activities- street and canyon racing. :rolleyes:

I'm really glad that there are safe legal events like the NHP- sponsored Silver State classic now- not cheap, but compared to gettting fined $2500 for going over 100mph, being charged with a felony and having your car impounded it's a deal. I'm far from being ready to run in that event but at least it's still being run.

What kind of trans are you running? The TKO 600 seems like a good choice and easier to install, but enough guys here are doing the T-56. It's said to be stronger than the TKO 600, but I wonder how much more.

Geno

[TwinTurboMach1]

Beautiful Bird!

I saw it the other day in wallingford absolutely gorgeous!

[NOT A TA]

TwinTurboMach1 Thanks! Where were ya? You weren't the guy 'bout breaking his neck driving a dark pickup through a traffic light were ya?

I was up in Wallingford to go to H&L Performance which is in a little industrial complex right off of the Meritt Pky.

They're doing a beautifull job polishing aircraft grade aluminum parts I designed after they're made on CNC machines at JV Precision over in Seymour. As soon as the web guy finishes up the site so you guys can view the products and orders can be taken I'll announce the 1st available products here. It's killing me not to spill the beans but I gotta wait till the sites finished.

72Blackbird You were wise to listen to the little voices and slow the top speed blasts without equipment. But Safety stuff is expensive! I'd like to do the Silver State in '09. Till then I'm on a safety kick first. Then tuning for performance, then testing high speed stuff at ECTA, open track days, and wind tunnel.

I'm currently running a T 350 W/shift kit & B&M Supercooler, B&M Quicksilver. I'll be installing one of the Keisler 5 speed kits that comes with everything. I've only heard good things about the fit and ease of installation. I've been waiting to see if they come out with a 6 speed kit but I think there's trans tunnel mods required for them so they may not do a kit for them. Haven't heard any complaints about the setup for Firebirds switching from automatics W/Pontiac engines so they must be holding the torque!

[72blackbird]

John,
A built TH-350 behind a 400-hp 406 Pontiac should be fine- 450 ft.lbs. is alot of torque but not enough to grenade a strong TH-350 (at least not for a while :D). I don't think I want to run more than 600-650 hp, since that seems to be enough power to run 200 mph, as well as the limit of the TKO 600. Running any more than that is useless if you cant get the power to the ground, or burn it up. I thought 18 x 12's w/ 335/30R18's were overkill, but if you think about it that size rubber should hook up well (with the right tire).

If you jump over to the Pontiac forums there are plenty of Pontiac builders who have built 600-650 hp pump gas 462/468s, alot more hp with 541 IA2- based motors. The majority of those use CNC-ported e-heads, solid roller cam, forged internals, single plane manifold and a big carb, but that's a 600 hp motor for about $10k- not bad if you compare that hp/price to BBC packages available.

Geno

[TwinTurboMach1]

haha yea driving the Grey toyota pickup. I had to check it out, and try not to crash:D My shop is acutally just around the corner so im always in that area.

[70Firbird]

In the process of blasting out my rear trunk pan. Just picked up some new tools too. I'm planning on building some sort of bracing for my rear subframes. After looking at my rear subframe for about 8 hours, I noticed taht it is pretty thin and week especially for something mounting rear suspension. I am planning an x-brace for the section of subrame angling upwards and another bar mounting the very end where the rear leaf springs end. What do you guys think?

[72blackbird]

70Firbird,
The second gen. F-body frame rails are basically stamped sheetmetal units- I've had to weld reinforcement plates where the rear sway bar drop links attach to keep the sway bar from ripping them out. They've held up fine since then.You could tie in to the frame rails from up top if you're considering a roll cage- a fuel cell frame would also act as bracing and tie the two rails together.

Geno

[NOT A TA]

I'm having a cage installed in a couple weeks and am going to find out about welding the rear bars to the frame if not using solid mounts. I think there will be flex issues where they are welded to the frame unless solid mounts are used. I've seen some nice fuel cell setups in 1st gens but not in 2nd gens, should be able to make something similar though I'd think.

[70Firbird]

You got some pictures of the fuel cell reinforcements? Maybe I could copy something out of it.

[NOT A TA]

Might want to read this http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14678

[jayb53guy]

Any new progress on your ride? I am building a 70 firebird also.

[70Firbird]

Hey guys back again, finally got the car on the road. Any idea where I can find the front nose for the 70-73 bird?

[NOT A TA]

I found a workable front bumper and a valance on EBAY a couple years ago I'm going to use for future mods. Also there's a company that was remaking bumpers with your core also.

You could check the for sale ads and place a wanted ad on http://www.transamcountry.com/ , a 2nd gen TA/Firebird site.

Exactly what "nose" parts do you need?

[70Firbird]

It's the nose that the grills and headlights attach to

[NOT A TA]

Ah, so you just want/need a bumper. I saw one in the pics you posted a while back. Is that one bent or rotted? Perhaps it could be repaired if it's just cracked or has chunks missing. I've used a flexible parts repair kit from 3M with excellent results if thats the case. If the endura rubber is shot maybe the company that molds a new one on old skeleton might be a good way to go.

There's also one or two companies making fiberglass replacements. Those original things weigh a ton and are way out front hurting handling,braking and dragstrip launchs.

[joeljet]

saw a 73 nose over on performanceyears.com (a big pontiac site) in the firebird parts for sale section. the 73 weighs about 3 times as much as the 70-72 but i like the deeper inset of the grills better. if you don't know the difference check out the 70-72 (interchangable and the grills sit flush)and the 73 (heavier but deeper grills). you can thank the 73's weight on Ralph Nader. the 73 (only year) noses will probably run a little higher

[T_Raven]

i'm not on here much, on pro-touring.com more, but i just noticed your thread. as a die hard firebird guy i must say, please don't put a chevy big block in your firebird. the only acceptable substitute for a pontiac engine would be an ls engine. it's your car but no self respecting pontiac fan wants to see a chevy engine in an old pontiac.

i'm on my 3rd 79 ta, and still have my first car, a 67 firebird. i already have an ls1 and t56 to put in one or the other. the other will get a big inch pontiac with kauffman heads and fuel injection. if you aren't too hip on the pontiac scene yet here are some good websites for performance parts. you can see what kind of power they are getting with stock blocks and stroker kits, or if that's not enough you can get over 500 cubes with the IA II block that butler sells.

www.krepower.com
www.butlerperformance.com
www.tinindianperformance.com

but anyway, i can't wait to see more progress

[70Firbird]

Thanks, i'll keep you guys posted. waiting for a th400 race trans, moser 12 bolt rear, motor, and wilwoods.... last thing is wheels. anybody know the backspacing for an 18x9 wheel in the front?

[72blackbird]

Are you running stock A-arms or Global West pieces? Brett Evans ran 18 x 9.5 CCWs, 5.25 BS with the GW uppers and lowers (I asked him). Any pics of the car?

Geno