Fuel tank vent puking gas !!

[DRJDVM's '69]

I recently installed a Rick stealth tank and am having issue with the vent tube puking fuel.

I have an older style where the vent hole is in the front near the sender. I got the valve Ricks supplies that drops in that hole (its like a tube with a ball valve in it) and have about a foot of hose coming off it. I looped it once and mounted the end about 4 inces above the top of the tank level. I then put a "K&N type" breather on the end to help with the fumes. I'm using the gas cap that came with the tank.

It still seems to puke gas out of the vent. I keep getting gas all over the tank and the rearend.

Obviously alot of guys on here run the Ricks tank, so what are you guys doing????

The only thing I can think of is running a hard line, looping it 3-4 times and trying to mount the top even higher. If anyone has pix of what they did, that would be great....

[kennyd]

i am having the same problem , i just have not had time to fix it yet .

[Blown353]

Ned, I have the same issue with my Rock Valley tank, but only when it's over 3/4 full and it only slightly drips. What I did for now is to put a fairly sizeable fuel filter in the vent line, pointing upright and as high as possible under the car to collect most of the fuel "puked" out of the vent. I also bent some hardline and ran the vent all the way back to the bumper just by the license plate so when it does puke it does directly down to the ground.

The real solution that I'll fab up this winter will be to install another vent on the filler neck and run both vents to a small surge/overflow tank hidden up behind the bumper that is above the level of the fuel tank; it will catch and collect the fuel that comes out of the vent and allow it to drain back to the tank via one of the two vent lines. There will be a vent on the top of the surge tank obviously. A small surge tank, even 1/2 quart capacity should do the trick.

[surreyboy]

i have the same annoying problem with my ricks tank, and someone else i know with one as well

[awr68]

So if you are using a factory vented cap can you just plug the vent at the tank so it's not an issue?

[surreyboy]

i found this on weldons site

10. Does my fuel tank need to be vented?
Yes, the fuel tank or cell requires venting to the outside of the vehicle. Do not use a vented gas cap in lieu of a true tank or cell vent

[Blown353]

i found this on weldons site

10. Does my fuel tank need to be vented?
Yes, the fuel tank or cell requires venting to the outside of the vehicle. Do not use a vented gas cap in lieu of a true tank or cell vent

Very true. Too small of a vent, especially for an engine that can consume a LOT of fuel quickly can result in either the pump "stalling" out and cavitating from vacuum in the tank or you can actually start collapsing the tank!

[awr68]

good to know...thanks guys!! :cheers:

[Siv]

I liked Blown353's idea so much I made one. It's not hidden behind the bumper, but instead in the trunk.

Here's the basic idea
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/185296_1705488375910_1799065051_1095882_3227404_n. jpg

Welded up a small tank. It's a frankentank made from lesser failed projects.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/s720x720/185276_1733649759927_1799065051_1129429_8320170_n. jpg

Fabbed up a quick mounting bracket
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/296488_1733650039934_1799065051_1129431_4818570_n. jpg

I don't know if this is the best place to mount it, but it doesn't look bad in my opinion.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/297056_1733649559922_1799065051_1129427_3721882_n. jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/317311_1733649679925_1799065051_1129428_1449731_n. jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/303816_1733649879930_1799065051_1129430_7055402_n. jpg

From under the car. The fuel hose fits perfect between the ribs of the trunk and tank.
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/293634_1733650159937_1799065051_1129432_2403136_n. jpg

Seems to be working great so far and no burps or fumes.

[Musclerodz]

the issue is too much pressure in the tank. constant return with corvette regulators does not help either, keeps the pressure in the tank up. we have the same issue here on rock valley tanks as well. I am hoping the vaporworx setup will solve some of the issue, but doubt it will solve puking when tanks are near full. charcoal or vapor cans is the only way to properly fix it.

[GregWeld]

The other issue is the vent line may be too small -- once some gas gets up inside the vent tube -- the pressure builds up behind it and pushes it out. A LARGER vent tube will allow the pressure to pass the fluid and not push it up and out. Think of a straw....

Hard line has a larger inside diameter... so hard line the same OD would be a better solution than rubber hose... BUT here's my other thought:

DO NOT loop it -- that effectively makes a "P" trap out of the vent line and any "fluid" would sit in the bottom of the "loop" and any pressure behind it would push that fluid up and out of the vent. The fluid in the loop would also block any incoming "make up" air.

[ccracin]

DO NOT loop it -- that effectively makes a "P" trap out of the vent line and any "fluid" would sit in the bottom of the "loop" and any pressure behind it would push that fluid up and out of the vent. The fluid in the loop would also block any incoming "make up" air.

BINGO, You are exactly correct. This will not be done on ours. I added a -6 vent fitting to our tank as well as the vented cap. Hopefully it is enough.

[GregWeld]

BINGO, You are exactly correct. This will not be done on ours. I added a -6 vent fitting to our tank as well as the vented cap. Hopefully it is enough.

Of course I am!! :rofl:


This ain't my first goat rodeo!

[ccracin]

This ain't my first goat rodeo!

You ever been Bucked Off? :lol:

[GregWeld]

You ever been Bucked Off? :lol:

Sometimes it feels like the goat is riding me!

:lol:

[Siv]

Still running great! I would have bent up my own lines, but I have very little time and very little money. Everything in the pictures I posted I already owned from previous projects.

Thanks again Blown353

[GregWeld]

SIV -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



I appreciate your work - but I would NEVER EVER EVER vent GAS FUMES into an enclosed space -- and especially where you have light bulbs/turn signals/brake lights/wiring....

You get a leak in your vent system -- hit the brakes -- and see ya sweetheart!

Of course - I'm also an internationally licensed pyro - so I think SAFETY first - which is why I'm still alive to type this. :D

[Siv]

The line out the top runs to a filter under the car just above the tank.

[GregWeld]

The line out the top runs to a filter under the car just above the tank.


Right -- but I was pointing out IF you have a LEAK.... you have several points of failure. The actual vent is not the issue... it's the fact that you've chosen to run GAS FUMES (it's associated plumbing and fittings etc) into an enclosed space.

It could be leaking and you'd never know it until it's too late.

The 'idea' was good -- it just should be all open to atmosphere.

BTW -- I'm not dumping on you... I'm just pointing out the issues so some other readers might avoid the possible problems.

[parsonsj]

Greg's right: putting the vent in the trunk is a concern. If one can find a way to properly vent the tank and keep the plumbing on the outside of the car, that's always preferable.

However, on some cars, there's just no way to do that unless you live with leaking gas caps or a vent directly open to the atmosphere, and that has safety (not to mention environmental) issues too.

I would also observe that typical pressures within the vent plumbing rarely goes above 2 psi, and is usually at zero psi. Using quality plumbing rated at 100+ psi, plus doing consistent leak checks can mitigate that risk.

Doing it this way isn't as good as keeping it all outside the vehicle, but it's better than dumping gas on the ground during typical driving.

[strtlegal]

I had to have Rick's fix my Nova tank several time's..This last time was finally the solution.

At first my vent was super small like Gregg mentioned and the fuel would just expand and climb out, no matter if it sat in the garage or I drove it.

The final stage was to make the breather bigger so now I have two big 3/8 port's that face forward at the top of the tank. Inside they have big long tube's that run the length of the tank so it's harder for fuel to climb in there.

On the outside I have the two tied together from a 3 way tee then the hose climb's to my trunk where a canister sits from there it climbs back down under my car and vents outside the car..

I drive the car in 110 degree weather and have had zero issues with pressure again.

I do want someone to make me a vapor canister but has not been a priority.

[Siv]

Greg's right: putting the vent in the trunk is a concern. If one can find a way to properly vent the tank and keep the plumbing on the outside of the car, that's always preferable.

However, on some cars, there's just no way to do that unless you live with leaking gas caps or a vent directly open to the atmosphere, and that has safety (not to mention environmental) issues too.

I would also observe that typical pressures within the vent plumbing rarely goes above 2 psi, and is usually at zero psi. Using quality plumbing rated at 100+ psi, plus doing consistent leak checks can mitigate that risk.

Doing it this way isn't as good as keeping it all outside the vehicle, but it's better than dumping gas on the ground during typical driving.


100% agree. I have a Rick's Tank and was extremely dissatisfied with how the vent puked all the time. I was even more dissatisfied when I called Rick's Tanks and couldn't get an answer on how to properly vent there tank! It's a waste of gas not to mention more of a hazard than what I built. Can you imagine someone flicking a cigarette on the gas your car just puked out? There are no fumes in the trunk of my car and I built the canister from high grade stainless steel and used quality Aeromotive gas hose. I would be amazed if there was any pressure in the vent hose. Maybe I should have included how I plumbed all the lines to the front of the tank, but that was my mistake.

I've been driving this car for almost 20 years. It's my daily driver and it has to work and be reliable. I wish I had the time to do everything the way I want to, but I don't.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/198036_1472057940295_1799065051_841304_2781871_n.j pg

I figure primer is a color too.
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206558_1018561643171_1799065051_36667_5731871_n.jp g

[70rs]

Nice chevelle! Primer IS a color!:D

[Siv]

I figure there's no difference in safety compared to a plastic fuel cell in a trunk. I do appreciate the criticism and I'll probably remake a canister that fits on the inside of the bumper. I wonder how small the canister can be and still be effective...

[GregWeld]

I figure there's no difference in safety compared to a plastic fuel cell in a trunk. I do appreciate the criticism and I'll probably remake a canister that fits on the inside of the bumper. I wonder how small the canister can be and still be effective...

I really wasn't trying to be critical... I was trying to be like I always am on here -- making sure people really think about all the issues and possibilities etc. I have to write as though 100's of people are reading this stuff -- some of 'em might not do as nice a job as you did and have a problem....

Having said that -- a canister tucked into the bumper is a great idea! Maybe fill it will charcoal (not the barbecue kind -- the kind you'd buy at a fish store that they use for filtering the water). That would kill any fumes when parked in the garage.

[syborg tt]

I really wasn't trying to be critical... I was trying to be like I always am on here -- making sure people really think about all the issues and possibilities etc. I have to write as though 100's of people are reading this stuff -- some of 'em might not do as nice a job as you did and have a problem....

Having said that -- a canister tucked into the bumper is a great idea! Maybe fill it will charcoal (not the barbecue kind -- the kind you'd buy at a fish store that they use for filtering the water). That would kill any fumes when parked in the garage.

The best place to get a charcoal canister is from a late model s10 pick up. The even come with a nice mounting bracket. You can pick them up at the bone yard for $20 bucks

[elitecustombody]

I have a question.

Does anyone else think a charcoal canister with proper fittings,lines and instructions should be included with their $1200 tanks? Not just vented catch can, but charcoal filled one. Spilling gas on hot pavement at triple-digit temperatures is downright dangerous . The nasty gas stink in garage ,gas spilling on expensive paint job is not cool either. I think it's a serious liability issue and should be addressed ASAP.I don't mean to throw Rick under the bus, but he suggested to attach a hose to vent tube ,loop it twice and route it inside the trunk. IMO that is not a solution,I don't think anyone wants their interior smell like inside of gas tank and have headaches every time they drive their car,especially on long trips.

[syborg tt]

Yep, I agree

I have a question.

Does anyone else think a charcoal canister with proper fittings,lines and instructions should be included with their $1200 tanks? Not just vented catch can, but charcoal filled one. Spilling gas on hot pavement at triple-digit temperatures is downright dangerous . The nasty gas stink in garage ,gas spilling on expensive paint job is not cool either. I think it's a serious liability issue and should be addressed ASAP.I don't mean to throw Rick under the bus, but he suggested to attach a hose to vent tube ,loop it twice and route it inside the trunk. IMO that is not a solution,I don't think anyone wants their interior smell like inside of gas tank and have headaches every time they drive their car,especially on long trips.

[parsonsj]

(Jody/Scott/Anthony: feel free to delete. I'm trying to tread lightly here, cause I realize that: 1) I'm not a sponsor here, and 2) the place I'm going to mention isn't a sponsor here any more. But in the interest of letting folks know there are some options for them...)

I know that Prodigy Customs has some inventory of Rick's Tanks, and that they also have inventory of my vent systems which can be offered as an option for those tanks.

(backing out of thread now)

[syborg tt]

Best Quote of the Day "backing out of thread now"

Since you jumped on. On my latest project I am doing a carb'd LS1 with an external Fuel pump ( all edelbrock ). I am torn and not sure if a custom tank is the way to go.

Your thoughts John.

ps - that car is being built to be driven and enjoyed. The chances of me finding time to go out and race the car is slim. But I do plan to do the autocross at the GG Events.

(Jody/Scott/Anthony: feel free to delete. I'm trying to tread lightly here, cause I realize that: 1) I'm not a sponsor here, and 2) the place I'm going to mention isn't a sponsor here any more. But in the interest of letting folks know there are some options for them...)

I know that Prodigy Customs has some inventory of Rick's Tanks, and that they also have inventory of my vent systems which can be offered as an option for those tanks.

(backing out of thread now)

[parsonsj]

(quick slide back into thread -- :_paranoid )

Marty, I can't answer about a custom tank. I'd guess that a factory tank and its 5/16 or 3/8 supply line would be just fine, along with a vented cap. I'll bet that such an arrangement does have a gas smell in the garage though.

[Vegas69]

There's a reason why you don't see gas tank filler necks at knee level anymore. They are a pain in the ass to fill, AND they are a bitch to vent. I played hell with mine like everybody else. As was said, that whole loop deal doesn't work. It just makes the tank belch and does a poor job of venting. A canister in the trunk and back out to fresh air is the only way I made mine not spill gas even at full tank. You could get all factory and put a pressure sensor/solenoid into a charcoal canister. To much work for me. I agree, Rick should really know how to vent his own tanks. A proper fuel level sensor would be nice as well. :unibrow: That being said, my tank has been good to me. You just need to tweak it in like many other things.

[69MyWay]

For what it is worth, I installed a plastic tank from a 96 Caprice in my 69 Camaro - with some mods.

It has a factory vent line that I attached to a charcol can set up from a late model GM 1500 pick up. Since the car is fuel injected with the LS and return line...the LS computer also had the output and my Painless Harness had the purge line connections. No brainer - hooked them up and put a sealed cap.

Long story short - no odor, no leaks, no issues - it acts totally OEM.

I also did a 69 Corvette a few years ago with a stock 69 tank - I used an early 90s full size Chevy truck charcol can and mounted it next to the tank. I ran the vent to it - and no vacuum from the engine. I ran a sealed cap and had no odor or drip issues.

I know that is a bit off topic, but I do think if you have a larger vent line - then run it through a OEM charcol and in the best case hook to the PCM through the valve....your drips and odors will be gone.

I'm not saying the caprice mod is easy - but it was very inexpensive and allowed use of multiple OEM parts including OEM quick fit lines...etc and proper vent tubing.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/files/camaro_tank_complete.jpg

[elitecustombody]

^That turned out pretty good, but this thread is about a problem with high dollar aftermarket tanks ,we all know that we can adapt OEM charcoal canisters or whole venting system off some other late model car, but I think these tanks should come with nicely packaged venting system that works and doesn't stink up the car or garage

[69MyWay]

^That turned out pretty good, but this thread is about a problem with high dollar aftermarket tanks ,we all know that we can adapt OEM charcoal canisters or whole venting system off some other late model car, but I think these tanks should come with nicely packaged venting system that works and doesn't stink up the car or garage

Agreed - I just figure you can't go wrong applying an OEM technique to these tanks to bring them into a proper working order.

I know sometimes we get so far out with modifications that we have to make modifications to cover our modifications...and eventually come back to the way the folks that designed these things with the benefit of years of test tracks and other R&D did it.

I would have never guessed the custom tanks would have this problem. You figure a tank is a tank and a vent is a vent.

[elitecustombody]

I know sometimes we get so far out with modifications that we have to make modifications to cover our modifications...



You got me rolling, this is so true, sometimes:rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DarkoNova]

I would have never guessed the custom tanks would have this problem. You figure a tank is a tank and a vent is a vent.

Agreed. I never would have guessed that the top dollar tanks still have such a basic problem. I'm also surprised LS1 conversions have been around for so long and there's never been a thread about this until now. :wow:

[The WidowMaker]

It has a factory vent line that I attached to a charcol can set up from a late model GM 1500 pick up. Since the car is fuel injected with the LS and return line...the LS computer also had the output and my Painless Harness had the purge line connections. No brainer - hooked them up and put a sealed cap.

I know that is a bit off topic, but I do think if you have a larger vent line - then run it through a OEM charcol and in the best case hook to the PCM through the valve....your drips and odors will be gone.




could you expand a little. im not up to date on how all of these work. it sounds like the factory solutions may be pretty simple but im not completely following.

my previous thought was to do as pictured above with a very small tank (~1 qt) mounted up higher than the main tank. i would then have two main tank vents plumbed into the smaller vent tank; one line plumbed into the bottom from the filler neck and one into the bottom from the main tank. this small tank would then be vented out the top.

[70rs]

could you expand a little. im not up to date on how all of these work. it sounds like the factory solutions may be pretty simple but im not completely following.

my previous thought was to do as pictured above with a very small tank (~1 qt) mounted up higher than the main tank. i would then have two main tank vents plumbed into the smaller vent tank; one line plumbed into the bottom from the filler neck and one into the bottom from the main tank. this small tank would then be vented out the top.

If you have any older Chiltons or other repair manuals for older cars, take a look at the emissions section. You should be able to find a simple diagram of how the lines are connected in a vapor recovery system with a charcoal canister.
The systems are really simple in how they work. Building one at home from OEM parts should be really easy for you after everything you have done on your project yourself.

If you build one please post pics.

[69MyWay]

could you expand a little. im not up to date on how all of these work. it sounds like the factory solutions may be pretty simple but im not completely following.

my previous thought was to do as pictured above with a very small tank (~1 qt) mounted up higher than the main tank. i would then have two main tank vents plumbed into the smaller vent tank; one line plumbed into the bottom from the filler neck and one into the bottom from the main tank. this small tank would then be vented out the top.

If you look under the hood of a 1988 to about 1997 or so Chevy truck you will see a coffee can canister behind the left front headlight. It has a couple of lines on it. One is the vent coming from the gas tank. Another goes to the intake - and I can't remember where the third one goes. Anyway, on my 69 Vette aka Killer - I used one of these and hooked the vent line from the tank to the can. The can acts like a big air filter that not only allows pressure to come off the tank and get scrubbed to remove the gas odor, but it also allows the tank to breath in through the valve on the top of the unit. I like what 70rs says about looking at the Chilton diagram and just hooking it up.

On my LS set up, I simply duplicated the vacuum lines off the 1996 Caprice tank to a 2002 or so style full size truck charcoal can. These are square shaped and are found on the driver side under the bed behind the cab. You can get them from the bone yard cheap or nearly free. Nobody really wants them for anything. They have a valve you have to get that will hook to your LS wire harness for the purge. You will want to run the vacuum line back up to the engine just at the LS does from the factory. I was able to tuck the unit on the right frame rail by the tank on the Camaro.

I see no reason why you couldn't hook one of these up to a Ricks or other tank - as long as the vent on the tank is sufficient to begin with.

The 68 Firebird we are building right now has a stock tank and stock vented cap. Man...I had forgotten what a pain the gas vapors can be. We were out there working last night - Camaro and Firebird side by side in the shop. When the sun sets and the garage door is open that heats the rear of the cars and you really pick up some odor out of the Firebird - the Camaro is just like a new car - no odor at all...facing the same exact circumstances.

It is worth looking into.

[DarkoNova]

So the charcoal canisters off the newer cars need to be connected to the ECM to work properly? I want to get a 67-68 Camaro gas tank and move the gas cap up between the tail lights on my Nova, along with using a non-vented cap. It looks like using a charcoal canister would be the best solution for venting it.

I was already planning on using one when I did my LS swap, but I'm willing to do it with the SBC if it'll stop the gas spillage and odors.

What's the simplest setup for a carbureted engine? I mean what range of cars should I look for at the junkyard, and how would I connect it?

Maybe I should have swiped the canister off my old BMW before I dropped it off at the junkyard. :(

[69MyWay]

So the charcoal canisters off the newer cars need to be connected to the ECM to work properly? I want to get a 67-68 Camaro gas tank and move the gas cap up between the tail lights on my Nova, along with using a non-vented cap. It looks like using a charcoal canister would be the best solution for venting it.

I was already planning on using one when I did my LS swap, but I'm willing to do it with the SBC if it'll stop the gas spillage and odors.

What's the simplest setup for a carbureted engine? I mean what range of cars should I look for at the junkyard, and how would I connect it?

Maybe I should have swiped the canister off my old BMW before I dropped it off at the junkyard. :(

No, late model or old style they will work the same. It is just that with the LS and full wire harness I was able to hook it all up like OEM. You could use a late model one and not hook the electric to it.

They all do the same thing from venting the air in and out of the tank through the canister - then using a purge line to the engine through the solenoid valve if you wish. I'd just get the manual from whatever donor car you swipe the canister from and hook it up that way.