pro charger intake manifold

[copo69]

what would be the best intake manifold choice for a sbc with a d1sc pro charger . ?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Any single plane will work fine.

[copo69]

well i have the weiand . we already know that manifold is out . a friend just gave me an early edelbrock tm 1 the early torkmaster series it is an open plen from 2500-6500 but something keeps telling me i should spring for a victor jr or a super vic and have it blended and matched to my heads. any intake i9 use will get the blending and port matching . what ya think frank ? go with the early torker or spring for the victor. ??


how was that vacation . hope you guys had fun and got to relax.

[Blown353]

My preference would be for a smaller single plane... a Vic. Jr. works great but the TM1 should work well too.

I have also used an RPM Air-Gap dual plane with my old blowthrough setup; off-boost manners especially at low RPM were a little better than a Vic. Jr. and mixture distribution at WOT was still pretty good with the dual plane but not as good as with the Victor Jr.

A super vic is WAY too big for a SBC that sees any street duty. I daily drove my car with a Super Vic for a while and it sucked. No mixture velocity and no power down low, and from putting around town it had poor mixture distribution and needed way hotter plugs in the 4 corners. It will work fine under boost but off-boost it's just too much intake and performance and driveability will really suffer.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I am with 353, a Victor Jr is perfect in most cases.

[copo69]

thanks frank and 353 vic jr it is then. checked out your web site 353 nice ride. the bracket you fashioned off of the header tube to the pro charger bracket should i figure into one of them myself . and id like a lil more information on your belt tensor the spring pressureized one. is it something i can order or would i have to send in my bracket for it.

[JamesJ]

I think that he got it from SD Concepts or somethign like that. if you do a search you will most likely find something, they have a web site as well.

http://www.sd-concepts.com/

[copo69]

actually james the link you listed is good and i have been to the site. thanks much. any of you guys have a cam recomendation for this build ? i have a few on the shelf that are new but none of them seem to be what anyone would call a perfect cam yet..
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=14444
the linik is to the other post where i listed the cams i have new unused . im open to suggestions.
thanks

[Blown353]

Yep, Scott at SD Concepts did the tensioner and idler pulley mod. I would not have a serpentine setup on a Procharger any other way-- although I have yet to try ATI's new "all-in-one" serpentine bracket & tensioner setup.

Last time I called ATI to buy a different pulley for my car, the tech asked my current combo in and did a double take when I told him how much boost I was running with an 8-rib belt. He asked how I was getting away with it and when I told him I had braced their bracket and also had one of Scott's tensioners he laughed and said "yep, that will do the trick." ATI is well aware of the shortcomings of many of their accessory brackets but even after all these years still sells them. :question:

I have over 20K miles now on my original 8-rib belt at 15 psi (first on a P1SCH, now on a D1SC) and it still looks brand new and doesn't slip... in fact I just did another WOT datalog last night and it's still holding great!

As far as a cam, you would be best served to fully define your goals for the car and call an expert in the field like Scott (he specializes in boosted engine builds) and let him recommend the cam. He will want ALL your info down to the nth degree so he can come up with a good recommendation. If you haven't started the build yet or purchased components that's even better as you can build for boost from scratch.

If it's a street driven combo the final recommendation will probably be for about 9.25:1 CR with piston & CC coatings, good heads with an excellent I/E ratio and probably inconel exhaust valves to be on the safe side, the cam for a 350 will probably be in the 23X / 24X range with a 113-114 LSA for a milder but still very good HP setup, and 24X/25X range at .050 with a 113-114 LSA for a more aggressive setup, exact cam specs to be determined based on CR, head flow, vehicle weight, gearing, goals, etc.

It really is best to consult an experienced builder for something like this, the devil is in the details and you can leave a lot of power on the table if you choose your combo poorly. Use their experience (and mistakes) of previous builds so you can nail yours the first time.

[copo69]

thanks 353 . im new to the blow through super charger and i do know there is a diffrence from the old 671 and 871 im used to so im doing some sniffing around. i already have a solid 355 sbc built with a cola crank carillo rods ross pistons and full cnc race prep package set of afr 195 eliminator heads my compression will be static someplace between 8.5.1 to 8.8.1 depending on head gasket. i was going to do another 871 build with a dyers blower and though this time id hide it under the hood so i went pro charger. im sure there is some things i will need to know and learn about the pro charger and the blow through type system. so im looking for all the good advice i can get . thanks much

[Blown353]

The basic component selection looks good.

For a more "street friendly" build a higher CR in the 9.25:1 range would be a little better; off-boost combustion efficiency is higher yielding better off boost performance, mannerisms, and economy, while still allowing you to run plenty of boost.

However 8.5:1 still isn't too bad, I would try to put the thinnest MLS head gaskets you can in there (assuming your deck surface is up to snuff for MLS gaskets) to get the CR as high as you can with those pistons. You might even want to consider shaving the head slightly.

Everything is pretty critical with a boosted buildup, but for blowthrough the carb and carb hat need extra attention. Find a good carb guy. Scott @ SD did my carb as well as a couple of others for a friend and they were all excellent right out of the box other than idle speed & idle mixture tweaks. There are several other guys with good reputations but I have had experience with Scott and would recommend him again.

The carb hat itself can really kill power if you use a poor hat (i.e. the one Procharger provides)-- the good ones are CSU, EV, and SDCE.

[copo69]

yeah my block is is in excellent deck shape. i have already been talking to patrick at http://www.pro-system.com/ about my carb . he did the carb for my 540 and it was perfect right out of the box . my engine builder www.lewisracingengines.com .com hooked me up with patrick years ago and im kinda stuck on his carbs . my dominator runs on the street never loads up and i never have problems that i usually see most people running dominators have in fact ive had none.
is there a web site where i can check out some of theese carb hats ?
once i figure out why i cant seem to laod any pictures at this site i will get some pic,s up .

[copo69]

353 i noticed your in california . are you near sacramento at all ? maybe we could turn a wrench sometime or hit a car show or to for fun.

[awr68]

Mike Lewis just finished my motor...great guy!! A couple few other guys here use him as well!! :cheers:

[Blown353]

353 i noticed your in california . are you near sacramento at all ? maybe we could turn a wrench sometime or hit a car show or to for fun.

I'm just about 40 miles south of Sacramento actually. I'll be at Sac Raceway this Saturday for the test-and-tune followed by a bar-b-que at a friend's house afterwards. I still don't have slicks so I'll be doing my trademark full-track burnouts. :)

Mike Lewis just finished my motor...great guy!! A couple few other guys here use him as well!! :cheers:

Yep, Mike = good people. I've made the 220 mile (1 way) drive up there several times just to pick up parts. Always worth the visit!

[copo69]

yeah mike did my 540 . i kinda envy him living way up there own private machine shop right on the property. dam saturday . i have to run to chico saturday morning if i get back in time i will storm the track look for your car and shake a hand . ill bring a sixpack or 2 incase your done with runs by then.,

[camcojb]

yeah mike did my 540 . i kinda envy him living way up there own private machine shop right on the property. dam saturday . i have to run to chico saturday morning if i get back in time i will storm the track look for your car and shake a hand . ill bring a sixpack or 2 incase your done with runs by then.,

I should be there too, probably run my Duramax. Should be a good time, hope to see you there.

Jody

[copo69]

ill do my best to make it by sac raceway . like i said i have to run to chico saturday morning as long as i can keep my time in chico down to a hour or less i should be fine.

okay someone do tell whats the trick to posting pic,s at this site.
here is a link to my 540 that mike did for me i have a team chevelle account also.
dont know why putfile yanked my dyno vid

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165818


i dont won a chevelle anymore just 2 camaro,s im down to so im kickin it with the camaro guys now days i guess. i still visit tc lots of great people there and info also

[awr68]

You need to either save the pics to your hard drive or use one of the free online pics hosting sites (I use photobucket), and then follow these steps. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=9127

Nice motor by the way!! :thumbsup:

Jody you don't have time to play right now...although you have earned it!! :cheers:

[badmatt]

I would never purchase anything from SD "CON"cepts

[Blown353]

I would never purchase anything from SD "CON"cepts

You make an excellent case... just as good as your post about Banks about 5 months ago. I believe your post about Banks read " I wouldnt touch anything from banks with a 10ft pole."-- and you never returned to the thread to elaborate.

I have had my problems with Scott in the past... namely when it came to nailing down delivery dates, occasional difficulties contacting them (especially during his shop move), and excessive wait times for stuff, some of which was pre-paid (bad idea with ANY vendor, and something I will never do again.) At one point I nearly flew back to Rhode Island to get some face time with him over an item that was a very long time overdue... but it didn't come to that. However I have had the same experiences and lack of responsiveness with several other vendors too... including one who is prominent member of this board.

I have never had anything from Scott come up short when it came to functionality... it typically just took a lot longer to arrive than initially promised, which is something that I have found to be fairly normal in this industry. Prompt or even slightly delayed deliveries in this industry seem to be the rare event.

Anyways, enough of that.

[camcojb]

I would never purchase anything from SD "CON"cepts

care to elaborate?

Jody

[badmatt]

care to elaborate?

Jody
venture over to the turbo forums. there was a huge discussion of his faulty parts and he got all up about it.... rather funny threads. take a look. his carb hats blowing apart, pulleys he was building and mandrels for customers. And then his customer service.

about the banks products the only reason I wouldnt use anything of his is because its over priced for what it is. and the design isnt the most efficient, ive pulled apart one of his turbo's and waste gates aswell and wasnt to pleased with the fit and finish of the part.

[copo69]

thanks awr 68 i will look into the pic thing thanks for the link. been away for a bit. i have seen some users that had pics right in there post . i kinda would like to know how to do that .

[Blown353]

venture over to the turbo forums. there was a huge discussion of his faulty parts and he got all up about it.... rather funny threads. take a look. his carb hats blowing apart, pulleys he was building and mandrels for customers. And then his customer service.

I agree 100%... those two threads in question turned very ugly, especially the hat thread, although there may be more going on behind the scenes we don't get to know about. Yes it sucks the hat blew up, but it blew up after several backfires-- not a typical operating condition. Knowing that engines can and sometimes do backfire that should be taken into account when designing the components, however you can not design a part to withstand every abnormal operation condition. Being an engineer I do have concerns about the longevity of Scott's hats; the large near-flat areas will undoubtedly flex from boost to off-boost transitions and eventually there will be a fatigue failure. Overpressure simply accelerates this process, and the large flat areas certainly won't cope well with dramatic overpressure situtations (i.e. a backfire). I voiced my concerns about the shape to Scott in a phone conversation years ago when he emailed me pictures of the then in development hats and it looks like it did come back to bite him.

Personally, I've never had any gripes with Scott except I was told severely underestimated lead times and also when I had difficulty in contacting him during the move of his shop-- he had my money at that time, I didn't have any parts to show for it, and I couldn't get a hold of him. To say I was very concerned was an understatement-- but I did get the parts in the end and I'm happy with them.

His tensioner setup works mint on my car, I've done a couple out-of-the-box Procharger setups for other people and Scott's setup is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of performance, consistency, and reliability.

I've had a couple of problems too (bad injectors, head unit issues) and both times Wendy went out of her way to help me fix the problem-- although I did have to initiate a few follow-up calls on my own when I didn't hear back from them in a day or two.

I do agree with you on the price/performance ratio of the Banks parts... not very impressed in that department. I still remember when they raised the cost of their cast SBC manifolds nearly 3X because everyone was purchasing the manifolds only instead of the entire kit.

[copo69]

well ive been doing this hot rodding thing in one shape or form for almost 30 years and whenever a new part come around or a new company starts up with a new part they hit a day when they think all the R&D work is finished and the product is ready for the consumer and it launches.
well it finally reaches the consumer and maybe something in the mfg of the part gets over looked or some weak or faulty material slips by and BAM problems . sometimes the part reaches the consumer the consumer mistreats the part or installs it carelessly or modifies it in some whay and oh boy the accusations fly.
myself for instance have a set of upper and lower speed tech control arms that were so new when i ordered mine they was having problems with the welder and it took me 4 months to get my bars and what i ended up getting was the proto types that hung on the wall with no bump stops installed at all
and i was lie hmmm so a quick call he mailed me bump stops and they still havent been installed . bars dont hit why drill them and thread them in when i could ruin them.
i have read blown 353 ,s web site a couple times id say he has a fair understanding of parts and performance needs im inclined to take his advice on the belt tensor , when in fact no matter where i get my part ii could have problems.
now if s&d concepts had poor customer service didnt back there faulty items and blew off the customer ten yes a pointing of the finger would be in order. when i spoke to them they was real open about past issues and what they have done to correct them and to me that is a shop that is honest and worth working with. we all start someplace , even the guy who goes t the machine shop drops off some parts says machine my block balance my bottom end and goes home assembles that engine with lil knowledge of whta he is truly doing the motor gernades and all of a sudden that machine shop was to blame.
if i had a 1/2 a cent for every horror story ive heard regarding the auto industry i could proably retire for life and retire a good 300-400 peole with me. thanks for your opinion badmatt and im sorry your experiance was a less than happy one. :thumbsup:

when the day comes that everything in life is made perfect with no faults of any kind and there is nothin left for us wrenches to do what will our hobbies be then and where will we spend our perscious dollar. ? LOL

[camcojb]

Here's my thoughts on Scott and SDCE. His tensioner is the best I've seen, much better than the stock ATI unit. Along with his brace for the main blower bracket it eliminated all my belt slip issues I was having. I ran an 8 rib belt and held 16 psi on a big block and a/c, no issues.

Bought two of his carbs for different blow through engines, both spot on out of the box. I could not improve them with the normal jetting changes, they were already there.

His advice has always been good, and deserves a lot of credit why the 540 and my buddy's 406 ran as good as they did. I have not used his air intakes, and do not know about the internet drama he was involved in. I only know he's always helped me with good advice and parts that work.

Jody

[copo69]

i have to agree when i spoke to him briefly on the phone he sounded like a decent man to do business with .