opinions on roll bar

[67ragtp]

Im building another car, a 69 camaro(I know another camaro- just cant get them out of my blood). I never installed one in the 67 but did all the dse goodies including the subframe connectors mini tubs bla,bla,bla. I would like to autocross the new car occasionally, nothing competitive mostly street cruising was wondering if its a requirement at the shows or events. Does the bar provide a significant stiffness to the chassis that you can feel allowing the suspension to work better or is the frame connectors enough. Another issue is belts, no shoulder belts with out the cross bar. Is it just all around safer to have it? Like to here your opinions on this, the car will be getting the full dse front sub, connectors and quad link, appreciate some help making a decision- Thanks Rich

[awr68]

Rich I would say that a simple 4-point bar does help stiffen the car and is ok to install. My only concern would be for rear passengers. Pipe wrap would be a good idea if you do have passengers back there.

I have a 4-point bar and my son will spend time back there, so I tried real hard to get all the bars as tight to the body as possible....but I still will be wrapping them for his safety.

[Travis77]

Have you thought about going with a removeable cross bar?
I like how this car is setup giving you a 3 point option. You could then go with a cross bar that could be removed for the street.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v499/lreves/?action=view&current=IMG_3569.jpg

[67ragtp]

Thanks Guys, I just discovered the "daily driver roll cages" thread in the Interior section on the site. Although Im even more confused at this point, especially listening to the safety discussions.

Rich

[chicane]

Do you really need one to begin with... that is the first question.

What you should do is find out what class you would run your car in and see if you even need a bar to begin with. I doubt that answer will be a conclusive yes...

A simple four point to tie the uni-body/uni-frame together in the back half doesnt hurt. Especially if your goal is to tie the rear suspension pick-up points together. This alone is helpful and rather simple to accomplish. Every thing else can or will bolt to that structure. In the mindset of all this... are you going to keep your rear seat ?? Are people actually ever going to sit in the back seat ?? Then how about a bolt in shoulder bar ??

I would even add a door sill bar from the main hoop, forward to a point near the door hindge/floor. This will be the most noticeable addition as for chassis stiffness. And since its on the sill... its low and not obtrusive... and stiffens up the gap between the front sub and the rear uni-body structure.

Pipe wrap is junk. Use an SFI legal BSCI 45.1 padding. There is a reason for the regulation... and it does the same thing in a race car as it will on the street. Cheap-o pipe wrap/roll bar padding does nothing for your safety.

As far as the confusion about the "daily driver roll cages"... all that you really need to retain from that is... that the proper seat and harness, when properly installed and used, is what will keep your head from hitting the roll cage. Dennis however, makes many very valid discussion points and those arguements are for real... and need to be throughly weighted out in your own mind. Building the cage with this in knowledge will lend you the insight of where you actually want to place the tube in the car. Meaning... that you dont want the main hoop 3 inches from your head... etc etc. Its basic common sense. Knowing that... tell's you that a pre-formed or kitted roll bar isnt the thing that you will want to use... as there are no pre-fabricated roll bars that are worth a crap in my opinion. They are all constructed with too much room between it and the body... which means less room for you. The tubes need to be as far from you and as tight as they can get to the body as possible.

Yup... you are right... doing that is a PITA. But then again... its done right... and with the best intentions for your own safety.

I'd say do it. Just keep it simple and well thought out.

[67ragtp]

Chicane,
wow- I'm having trouble answering your first question. To the non competitive car building hobbyist I guess I really don't need one, but I feel I have valid reasons for wanting one. Safety(The last two cars I built used only lap harnesses and IM not feeling comfortable with that.) and chassis stiffness especially in a uni-body constructed car always have me wavering on this subject. There are occasions when I put people in the back although not very often, I will be keeping the rear seat. I like the Idea of a simple 4 point bar and perhaps a removable cross bar for shoulder belt retention. Thanks for your insight and knowledge on this subject appreciate it. - Rich