Introducing: Project 1/2-TRAK

[Damn True]

Greetings everyone,

I joined Lateral-G.net in 2005. Since then I have had the good fortune of meeting a bunch of wonderful folks and have learned quite a lot from a number of people. In that time much has changed in my life. I got married, changed jobs (twice), moved twice, built a house and we are currently in the process of selling another. Finally, life has begun to settle into a situation in which I can move my project from the planning stages to an active project.

I joined with a rather general plan in mind based on an experience gained nearly 30 years ago. Sometime around 1976-77 my father took me to a race at Laguna Seca. I distinctly recall box-fender flared BMW 3-series cars, Datsun 510's & 240-Z's, FIA bodied Corvettes and those wild Chevy Monza's. But what struck me the most was not these high-dollar pro racers but the cars in some of the support races being run by local SCCA members. Particularly if I recall correctly the A-sedan group.

This group was populated by hobby road-racers driving cars that were slightly older. Much like what you'd see at an SCCA or NASA event today. But instead of Miata's, Bimmers and CMC cars, these were late 1960's Musclecars. Mustangs, a few Mopars and Camaros. I was totally blown away. At the tender age of 10 or so I'd seen enough copies of Hot-Rod that I was aware that these cars were frequently used for drag racing. But the fact that they could be road-raced was entirely new to me. The cars were as amazing to me at the time as they are now. Pared down to their base elements, nothing there except what absolutely HAD to be there. Low, loud and mean looking with FOUR instead of two fat tires! Many of them had the "bubble" type fender flares that you can see on David Pozzi's old T/A car
http://www.pozziracing.com/Media/69garft.jpg

Heck, David's car may have even been out on the track that day, who knows? I knew then that someday I wanted to have a car like one of those. And, I knew just where to start.

In July of 1969 my Grandparents purchased a 1968 Camaro that had been sitting a while on the lot at Courtesy Chevrolet in Santa Clara, CA. They needed a new car to drive to Arizona where I was to be born in a couple of months and since the car had been slow to sell the price was right. The car was a bit different in that it was a special order that wound up not being delivered to the customer it was originally intended for. Playboy had placed an order through COPO for 50 pink 1968 Camaros to be distributed to playmates through the year. They only took delivery of about 30-40 of them. The rest wound up being sent to dealers. This was one of them....and yes, I said it was pink. This was my Grandmothers car for close to 35 years. They drove it all over CA on vacations and fishing trips. In fact, to this day there are bait shops and mountain lodges that I go to and when I mention my Grandparents people say, "Oh the couple with the pink Camaro!" The car was nothing special other than by virtue of it's color. A basic 327 coupe with a powerglide. But it was cool and I knew that eventually this car would be the basis for my Camaro road-racer project.

Fast forward to the year 2000. I was getting out of the Coast Guard after eleven years and moving back home to the Bay Area. My grandparents at that point decided to give me the car. A couple of years earlier some redneck had yelled something vulgar to my Grandfather while he was driving it and it scared him so he had a cheapo Earl Schieb spray-job done on it so it was now blue rather than pink.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778128098.jpg


The gifting of the Camaro roughly coincided with the "rise" of Pro-Touring. Jeff Smith and Mark Stielow had finally put a name to what had been in my head for years. A classic Musclecar with an updated suspension and drivetrain. Finally, I didn't feel like such a geek for wanting a corner-carving Camaro! And, with websites like this one popping up, magazine coverage for PT builds becoming more common and increased aftermarket support for this type of car it was going to be a whole lot easier than I had originally imagined!!!!

So essentially I have spent the last few years in "planning mode" speaking with various vendors about different suspension configurations. Considering a number of different powertrain options. Asking countless questions of people like David Pozzi, Steve Chryssos, Mark Magers, Steve Rupp, Carl Cassanova, Frank Serafine, Tom Holt, Tyler @ ATS and many others. Weighing my intentions for the car and how that impacts parts selections, build style and how much to spend and where? Further, there has been the debate of the style of build. Street car vs. race car vs. Streetfighter. All of which has brought me to this. A finalized plan for and an opportunity to build the car I have dreamt of for nearly 3/4 of my life.

Introducing:



http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778128099.jpg

The car will have a decidedly "Streetfighter" vibe to it and that is by design. I intend to drive the heck out of this thing. It will see auto-x action in and around the Bay Area whenever I get the chance and it will be taken to the many fine tracks (Sears Pt. Thunderhill, Buttonwillow and Laguna Seca) around the area as well. The money will be spent on performance first and appearance second as I care far more about how the car negotiates a corner than about what some judge at a Goodguys event thinks.

Project 1/2 TRAK will feature the following:

Drivetrain:

LS based EFI engine, target HP - 450
TK0-600 transmission (unless a T-56 drops in my lap for a good price)
9" Strange diff with 3.90 gearsChassis:

Fully welded factory subframe modifed for coilovers
DSE body mounts
DSE subframe connectors
DSE mini-tubs
TC Design-Fab 10pt SCCA legal cageRear Suspension:

Lateral Dynamics 3-link
Afco Coilover shocks (~250lb springs)Front Suspension:

ATS Spindles
ATS Coilover conversion

Speed-Tech upper/lower A-arms

1-1/8 swaybar
Afco Coilover shocks (~650lb springs)Steering:

Recirc Ball ATS steering gear
Lee PS pump
Moog steering system components
Ididit Column
Steering wheel quick release
Sparco wheelWheels & Tires:

Team III, LT-III wheels (minilite replica)
17x9.5 front 17x11 rear
275-40-17 front 315-35-17 rear
BFG KD or similarInterior:

Cobra Imola FIA legal fiberglass racing seats
No rear seat
Factory carpet
Welded/sealed/carpeted rear bulkhead/package tray
Combination of spray-on sound damping material and strategically placed mat material for minimal weight contribution
Custom center gauge panel with Stewart Warner guages
No ACBody:

Weld & fill badge holes and side marker light holes
Fiberglass decklid
Fiberglass "stock-flat" hood
Fiberglass front inner fenders
"Vanzuuk" front air-dam
Twist Machine rear decklid spoiler
Flanks - Subaru WRC Blue
Hood, roof & decklid - flat black
Low gloss (~50%) powder coat on all metalic trim, door handles etc

Many of the items on the list above are still open to change based on new product releases, pricing changes etc therefore, any vendor wishing to discuss partnership in this project is welcome to contact me via Private Message here at PT.com

Pretty damned excited. I can't wait to get started on this thing.

First order of business will be to rip the front end off of it so I can finish the welds on the front sub and install the body mounts. Then subframe connectors, then tubs, then the 3-link rear. All of which I have the parts for on hand.

By the time that is done I hope to have purchased enough of the front suspension bits so I can put the car back on the ground so I can roll it onto a tow truck and take it to TC Design-Fab for the cage install.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778128117.jpg

I should be able to get crackin in about a month or so. Once the garage is organized a bit better. I will do my best to update this build thread every two weeks or so and look forward to sharing this build with the membership here at www.Lateral-g.net

[Tom.A]

Looks like a solid car to start with and good plan:thumbsup:

[68protouring454]

awesome plan.

[Rybar]

Sweet project, I love the rendering. :yes: Nice that you can finally get started on the car when life gives you some space. :lol: Have fun and keep us posted. :thumbsup:

[awr68]

it's gonna be fun!!!!!! :thumbsup:

[mdprovee]

Nice color combo, keep us updated.

[Payton King]

I can't wait to watch this one come together. Love the wheels and the front air dam

I have seen you on the boards for a long time both here and pt.com. Glad you are finally starting

[Spiffav8]

That is going to be one wicked ass car! I absolutely give it a big :thumbsup: I'll be watching this build!!!

[ZVT]

Very Nice,I was doing a similar rendering for jake parrot a while back

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs23/f/2007/326/5/b/68_Camaro_RS_SS_streetfighter_by_zvtdesigns.jpg

Another great job by carter

[Damn True]

Nice. I like those stripes. They accentuate the curves of the fenders (best looking pony-car body IMO) without cluttering the car.

[96z28ss]

Cool,
can't wait to see the pics of the project underway.

[XcYZ]

Awesome. :cheers:

[tony byram]

Flat out awesome! Im old enough to remember the old SCCA racers. Heck I test drove a "new 69" we wont go there LOL. SWEET ride, its going to be neat, Im sure. Its amazing some of the tricks the old racers used to go faster and farther, true innovators of that time. Keep us posted how its comming along.

[Damn True]

Well I didn't think it was going to take so long to get crackin on this thing but life happens. It took us longer than we'd thought to get the old house ready to sell. Thankfully it was on the market for a total of 48hrs and is due to close in the next week or so.

With that....I decided to get started on dissasembly.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778183393.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183393)

It came apart pretty easilly. No broken bolts. The only rust at all was a tiny bit of surface rust between panel edges. Like between the fender extension and fender. Came right off with a wire brush. No corrosion penetration at all. Started labeling stuff as it came off. Put small parts in those clear plastic totes. Tried to put bolts in their home hole whenever possible. Even better than bagging.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778183391.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183391)

I haven't worked on an old car in quite a few years. Got a big kick out of how much hardware there is and how big the hardware is. They sure don't make 'em like this anymore. Not to mention how thick the material is compared to new cars. Those fenders are 16ga!!! Wow.

Did you think I was kidding about it being pink? Its pretty darn clean. That discoloration is dirt, not rust. Wipes right off.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778183396.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183396)



http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778183397.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183397)

This week I'll strip all the suspension and steering off the sub and take it to get sandblasted.

Once I'm done with that I can finish weld the seams. Then I'll be able to do my suspension fabrication. I have one or two decisions to make in that regard this week. Still not sure what system I'll be using.

Then I can prime/paint and install the sub. After that will be subframe connectors.

[Damn True]

Gotta love the hub-caps!!!

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778128120.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=128120)

Views of my workspace not previously visible

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778183394.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183394)

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778183390.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=183390)

[Jr]

Damn,
Will you be running the Lateral Dynamics 3-link? Why did you pick this rear over the others?

[Damn True]

Yes. For what I intend to do with the car it was the only viable choice.

Adjustability/performance.

The ability to run rod-end links vs bushings.

Any 4-link is going to roll-steer and bind. Didn't want that.

The car will be caged which precludes the use of the rear seat, thus the cockpit intrusion is a non-issue.

It's not going to be easy to install, but ultimately it'll be worth it.

[96z28ss]

I vote for painting it the original Pink again.
A tribute to your Grand parents

[Damn True]

I will integrate some pink on the car. Not sure just where yet.

[Damn True]

Had the day off of work so the front suspension bits were removed from the front sub. Everything came off smoothly. Still (knocking on wood) no broken or stripped fasteners. Though I do have a brake line union (hard line to flex line at left front wheel) that is putting up a fight.

It got too hot in the garage so I shut it down for the afternoon.

I'll probably take some measurements and pull the subframe tonight after it cools off.

[dolf]

How are you going to run a 275 front tire on a stock sub?

[Neil B]

That's a really neat project and a great story behind it. Be careful with the black/satin paint on the hood and front end. With my track cars, I've always had to use wax to get the rubber streaks (from race tires) off the front end and from behind the tires.

[Damn True]

How are you going to run a 275 front tire on a stock sub?

Yes, I will be using the stock subframe.

You see, I firmly believe in letting other people do my R&D for me. The simple reason for this is that I really cannot afford to experiment. So for the most part, I am using what I know to work.

Thankfully, one of our own, Carl Cassanova has already sussed out the details of running a 275 on the front of a '68.

You can find all the required information on his excellent website:
http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

The only differences in my setup will be the use of an ATS spindle and wheels/brakes. I will be duplicating his wheel dimensions and also will be using the Speed Tech upper and lower control arm. More about those later though. I don't want to get ahead of my next update.

[Damn True]

That's a really neat project and a great story behind it. Be careful with the black/satin paint on the hood and front end. With my track cars, I've always had to use wax to get the rubber streaks (from race tires) off the front end and from behind the tires.

Thanks for the input. I hadn't really considered that aspect of the finish. With the "flattened" blacks that are on the market are you able to get a little wax on them w/o staining? I mean they are a catalyzed single stage right? Less glossy than a normal clear coat but not porous. Am I off base?

[Damn True]

So....not a lot happened in September. It was a busy month at work because I was only AT work for about 2 weeks out of the four. My wife and I spent a week in Hawaii, and another week fishing and camping in the Sierra's. She treated me pretty good for my birthday. All things considered I'd have preferred Camaro stuff to going to Hawaii. Having lived there for seven years it feels more like going home than going on a vacation. But it was nice to get out of the office. The fishing trip though was awesome. The planks are 2"x12" for reference.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197360.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197360)

So as I said a few posts back, I got the sheet metal stripped from the car pretty easily. No broken or stripped hardware and no rust to speak of. As you can see though, the subframe is really grungy.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197358.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197358)

Not bad considering the age of the car. Really stoked about the lack of rust. This really was a "grandma car" and as such it was never really driven hard so I'm not even finding evidence of severe wear or any kind of stress cracks.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197357.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197357)

So I stripped all the suspension off and yanked the subframe in preparation for sandblasting and then finish welding.

Here's what we started with

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197343.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197343)

A little quick work with a wire wheel allowed me to inspect the potential trouble spots for cracks before sandblasting and allows me to explain what I'm up to here. You see how the subframe is only partially welded? Well each unwelded bit is a flex point and the beginning of each weld is a stress riser.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197344.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197344)

[Damn True]

So what we are going to do is link all of the factory welds and tie the whole thing together.

I thought this was going to be easy, but nooooo. It seems that a 40 year old lap joint is nigh impossible to clean. I sandblasted it. I wire brushed it. I sprayed solvent in there and blew it around with a blow-gun. I heated the joint with a torch to burn off contaminants but my welds were just looking like rubbish. This thread catalogs me figuring out the problem with the help of Jake and Matt...

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46863

So with the problem solved the welds came out pretty well. You can see the factory lap weld above my weld in this picture. It looks like they were stick welding these things and doing so very quickly.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197348.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197348)

Now remember, these are flux-core welds on a dirty, 40 year old lap joint. My torch technique is as you can see "rusty" to say the least. But, the welds are super solid and fully penetrated.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197347.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197347)

[Damn True]

In addition I also finish welded the seams inside the LCA pocket and the entire K-member. Overkill? Maybe. But it couldn't hurt.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197369.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197369)

You can see the string of itty-bitty spot welds that were originally used to join the upper and lower halves of the K-member here. Running the bead along both sides really made the assembly into a very solid unit.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778197368.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=197368)

I had to roll the subframe over a few times while doing all this work the difference in the stiffness of the assembly was very noticeable. Early in the process I could feel the thing wobble around a bit if I grabbed it by one corner and shook. I mean it felt like grabbing one corner of a sheet of 3/4 plywood. Strong, yet with some springiness to it. With everything welded up it is completely rigid. More like a sheet of 1-1/8 subfloor.

Yeah, my welds still kinda suck and the flux-core wire is messy, but they got better through the process and functionally the welds are good.

Next step.......

Installing the ATS coilover conversion system.......

[awr68]

Nice progress! Boy, that takes me back a year!!

Cant wait to see the next round of pics!! :thumbsup:

[Damn True]

I'm really glad I'm doing this work myself it's so much damn fun!

[awr68]

I really enjoy the design/planning stages...but it's also fun to get the hands dirty!! As long as things are going well that is!! I'll let ya know what the driving stage is like and if I like that too next year!! :unibrow:

[Damn True]

Just the act of using my hands to alter something tangible is, I'm finding, very rewarding. I spent eleven years as a helo mechanic and air crewman in the Coast Guard. I'd show up to the air station and a couple helo's would be broken and by the time I headed home stuff was fixed. Very satisfying.

But for the last eight years I've been in Marketing Communication. The work I do now oftentimes does not produce a measurable result for months. Sometimes the result is immeasurable and it's rarely if ever something tangible that I can see and feel like "I made that."

[Teetoe_Jones]

So while you were busy ripping your pink car apart we were busy modifying your lower control arms to a double shear mount for our coil over kit.

We took your tubular control arms and setup our lower mount:

http://i37.tinypic.com/29q1uzb.jpg

Then we ground down the powder coating off the top and bottom so that we could TIG the mounts in place:

http://i34.tinypic.com/nc05me.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/fdy77l.jpg

The frame gets modified by cutting off the single shear shock mount from the upper control arm bracket, plasma cutting the spring pocket out to allow for the coil over to pass through, and then welding the new upper coil over mount itno place inside the control arm bracket. Final results look like this:

http://i33.tinypic.com/258qx37.jpg

[Teetoe_Jones]

Back to the lower control arms, we TIG weld the spacer into one side of the double shear mount; the other side gets a zinc plated floater.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2rf378o.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2hzpjme.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/28kk7fd.jpg

The lower mount is ready to be welded to the lower control arm pocket:

http://i33.tinypic.com/sl1ikw.jpg

The arms are fully welded; TIG around the brackets, and MIG in the center to plug weld them in place. Now they go off to get re-finished.

http://i34.tinypic.com/30t1ac7.jpg

Next we will assemble your AFX spindles using the LG Motorsports brake cooling ducts. I'll post those up when the parts arrive.

Tyler

[Damn True]

Hey Tyler, thanks for posting that stuff. If you'd sent me the photos I don't think anyone would have believed it was me making those welds.

Important feature of the Speed-Tech arms that I really want to point out [white arrow]

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778202482.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=202482)

That bolt is the key to getting the 275x17" tire on a 9.5" rim on the front of a 1st Gen with a stock subframe. It's a steering limit adjuster and it allows you to slightly limit the steering angle such that the tire will not rub the subframe. The loss of steering angle is negligible.

Speed-Tech is the only aftermarket UCA/LCA manufacturer to offer this feature.

Strap gussets on the bushing housings are a nice addition as well. Stronger with a minimal increase in weight.

Of course, the Acetron (delerin) bushings will offer little/no deflection, exceptionally long wear, no squeaking and have a convienently mounted zerk fitting as well.

Tyler informs me that the modification shown above was significantly easier on the Speed-Tech arms than on other available products.

[Jr]

I will be watching this build. :thumbsup:

Tyler,
Nice welds.

[Damn True]

Thanks, stay tuned. There'll be more stuff in a few days.

The perception is that it's one thing for Tyler and his guys to install the Chicane-LM stuff in their shop and something else entirely for a home builder to do it.

I am doing the remainder of the install myself, with the intention of illustrating how easy it is for someone to do this install even with basic home fabrication equipment......and trust me, my capabilities (skill & equipment) are VERY basic.

I only had Tyler install the LCA double shear mounts because I don't have my shocks yet and thus cannot correctly set the spacing.

I don't have a videography department (just kidding Frank) but I'll try to give you guys as much stuff as I can.

[James OLC]

Looking great True. :thumbsup:
You'll have no problems with the rest of the assembly.

[Damn True]

I get the sweats thinking about installing that rear system....I'll be calling you....a lot.

Gotta see if I can't talk Matt into spending a weekend in Mountain View.

[conekiller13]

So while you were busy ripping your pink car apart we were busy modifying your lower control arms to a double shear mount for our coil over kit.

We took your tubular control arms and setup our lower mount:

http://i37.tinypic.com/29q1uzb.jpg

Then we ground down the powder coating off the top and bottom so that we could TIG the mounts in place:

http://i34.tinypic.com/nc05me.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/fdy77l.jpg

The frame gets modified by cutting off the single shear shock mount from the upper control arm bracket, plasma cutting the spring pocket out to allow for the coil over to pass through, and then welding the new upper coil over mount itno place inside the control arm bracket. Final results look like this:

http://i33.tinypic.com/258qx37.jpg

Hey Tyler,
Are those upper shock mount systems available seperatly and would they work on an A-body?

[Teetoe_Jones]

Dan-

The mounts are available by themselves but they might be too tall to work on an A body.

Tyler

[syborg tt]

Looks like an Awesome project.

I have an odd thought (which isn't strange for me). I really think that you should somehow figure out how to incorporate some pink into the graphic / color seperation bar. I think it would cool to way to pay tribute to the car and it's heritage. Plus it's history for your Grandparents.

ps - you've already got the blue know your just need the pink in there



In July of 1969 my Grandparents purchased a 1968 Camaro that had been sitting a while on the lot at Courtesy Chevrolet in Santa Clara, CA. They needed a new car to drive to Arizona where I was to be born in a couple of months and since the car had been slow to sell the price was right. The car was a bit different in that it was a special order that wound up not being delivered to the customer it was originally intended for. Playboy had placed an order through COPO for 50 pink 1968 Camaros to be distributed to playmates through the year. They only took delivery of about 30-40 of them. The rest wound up being sent to dealers. This was one of them....and yes, I said it was pink. This was my Grandmothers car for close to 35 years. They drove it all over CA on vacations and fishing trips. In fact, to this day there are bait shops and mountain lodges that I go to and when I mention my Grandparents people say, "Oh the couple with the pink Camaro!" The car was nothing special other than by virtue of it's color. A basic 327 coupe with a powerglide. But it was cool and I knew that eventually this car would be the basis for my Camaro road-racer project.

Fast forward to the year 2000. I was getting out of the Coast Guard after eleven years and moving back home to the Bay Area. My grandparents at that point decided to give me the car. A couple of years earlier some redneck had yelled something vulgar to my Grandfather while he was driving it and it scared him so he had a cheapo Earl Schieb spray-job done on it so it was now blue rather than pink.

[ArisESQ]

maybe you could paint the exterior of the car blue, and just do some very slight powder pink accents in the engine bay.. like annodize the fuel rails, or valve covers or something?

OR just paint the car pink! there are some pretty badass pink cars!
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/10/web/2290000-2290999/2290239_1.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/GTi-R23/MF4M104.jpg

http://www.1-18scalecars.com/Porsche/Porsche_917-20_Pink_Pig_front_quarter.jpg

[Teetoe_Jones]

So we have new goodies at the shop. The guys at LG Motorsports drop shipped a set of their C5/C6 Corvette spindle brake ducts. We will be adding them in place of the wheel speed sensor bracket on our forged aluminum AFX spindles. The only issue we had was that during our engineering process of making the AFX spindle we needed to rotate the forged in brake bracket so we could tie it into a fillet gusset while adding about 50% more material to it to eliminate brake flex. This makes the cut of the duct interfere with the upper brake bracket hole due to our redesign. No big deal, the bolts go in from the back side anyways.

Here are the spindles as we test assembled them with the 1/2"x20x3" long ARP stud upgrade. Hope to have this stuff out to you in the morning True!

http://i37.tinypic.com/2mnq3x3.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2h6ca5c.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2ltrcc0.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2ef0y1s.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/357j76p.jpg

Tyler

[Damn True]

Note to self:

Order axles that are compatible with BIG ASS WHEEL STUDS!

[68protouring454]

Note to self:

Order axles that are compatible with BIG ASS WHEEL STUDS!


?????

[Damn True]

Different size wheel studs front/rear = no bueno :thmbsdwn:

[68protouring454]

oh, all axles can be drilled and same studs pressed in, but good point its something easily over looked, and is much easier/cheaper to buy them with them installed
looks great

[Damn True]

As stated, the next step is to install the ATS double shear coilover bracket. I've gotten the sense from some that this is percieved as a difficult task. I mean, it's one thing for Tyler to install these in his shop with a bunch of quality tools and equipment but perhaps another for someone to do at home. Tyler bills this thing as an easy to install upgrade. Well.....let's see.

Here is the bracket:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3370.jpg

A darned robust little item if I do say so. 1/4" steel plate (how do you bend this stuff?) nicely mig welded into an assembly that I'm pretty sure could support the weight of the car a couple times over.

I have at my disposal a small Kobalt air compressor and cutoff tool. A cheap Sears Craftsman grinder (with cutoff, grinder, wire and flap-disk wheels), a sawzall, a Miller 175 welder and a little something I borrowed from work that we'll get to later. By no means professional quality stuff. IMO your basic homebrew fab tools.

Since this the install is done twice (left side and right) I've decided to examine two different ways of accomplishing the task.

Here is what we start with:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3393.jpg

The sandblasted subframe and it's OE single shear shock mount and upper control mount.

The first step is to remove the single shear shock mount. At first I tried using the pneumatic cutoff tool......lesson learned here. Cheap air compressors and pneumatic tools are just that....cheap. The $200 compressor from Lowes (Kobalt brand) just does not have the ooomph to handle this. It couldn't keep up with the cuttoff tool. So I switched to ol' reliable. Sears.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3439.jpg

The Craftsman grinder with a 4.5" cuttoff wheel made quick work of the shock mount.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3446.jpg

But it does leave a lot of material behind. The lap-welded portion on the subframe arm partially surrounding the spring pocket and the portion still attached to the UCA mount need to be cleaned up.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3451.jpg

No worries...I am using both hands on the grinder (with eye and ear protection). My wife leaned over my shoulder with the camera to take the photo.

[Damn True]

Still grinding away the mess

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3364.jpg

Getting rid of the last of the junk attached to the UCA mount

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3455.jpg

.....and finally all cleaned up.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3453.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3458.jpg

The next step is to remove a portion of the spring pocket. This will open up the top of the subrame and allow enough room for the coilover to pass through to the bracket after we attach it.

You'll need to open this up to roughly 4 inches in diameter. I went a little wider for an extra margin of clearance for the shock/spring. You can see the red line guiding my cut below.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3380.jpg

[Damn True]

Again I tried the pneumatic cuttoff tool. Again I was dissapointed. So I tried an alternate method. I used the sawzall to take small pie cuts out of the material. Sorta nibbling away at it until the hole was "mostly round" then finished it with a grinder. No pictures of the middle of the process here.......it was ugly. But once cleaned up with the grinder it looks fine.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3394.jpg

I also took the time at this point to add a little extra weld to the UCA brackets. Nearly impossible to get that joint in there clean and it's tough to get the torch close enough for good puddle control and see what you are doing. The welds reflect that but they are fully penetrated.....just ugly.

On the other side I decided to try something different to see if the process could be sped up a bit and improve the quality. It involved a slightly more sophisticated tool than the sawzall.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3492-1.jpg

Boy do I like this thing!

Where it took me nearly an hour to cut away the other spring pocket with the sawzall bit by bit, the plasma cutter did the job in about 45 seconds leaving a muuuuuch nicer hole...

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3497-1.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3495-1.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3498-1.jpg

[Damn True]

....and with far less cleanup with the grinder required as well. All told a much better result with the plasma.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3499-1.jpg

The next step is to begin trial fitting the coil over bracket to the UCA mount. Now remember, we are dealing with a 40 year old car. Tolerances on these things when built were shall we say........loose. The bracket will have to be trimmed here and there to fit.

Here is the bracket as delivered. You can see that the gaps around the bracket are big.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3387.jpg

You'll have to nip away at the c/o bracket and perhaps the UCA bracket some to get your joints tight enough to weld and to locate your shock in the hole such that the spring perch or spring wont make contact with the subframe. There is no sense in me describing where you'll have to trim he bracket as it will be different on your car. It was different on mine from left side to right.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3390.jpg

.

[Damn True]

....and after considerable trimming

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3532.jpg

Yes I know the shock is upside down. The adjustable perch is slightly larger than the fixed one and I assumed closer to the OD of the spring.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3534.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3536.jpg

Again, YMMV on the trimming required. This is just what had to happen to get it to fit up nicely on MY particular subframe. It isn't hard. Just time consuming. You grind a little, then test. Rinse and repeat until you get a nice fit then tack the sucker in place.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3535.jpg

[Damn True]

Then weld it up...
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3539.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3537.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3541.jpg

Still pretty messy with spatter and the goo from the flux-core wire but it got late and I needed dinner. Now it's even later and I need to go to bed, so more tomorrow if I get home from work early enough to work on it.

Thanks for watching.......

[city_ofthe_south]

love seeing the flux-core at work. Gonna be a really awesome car from the sound of things. Keep it up.

[Damn True]

Ok, brief update.

Topic: Fitting new suspension bits on 40 year old subframes.



As previously mentioned, the tolerances on 40 year old cars are......not good. You saw above how fitting of the ATS coil over brackets required widely disparate adjustments to the brackets to get them to fit in the UCA mount stands. The brackets were identical, the mount stands.....not so much. I guess that explains the goofy mix of alignment shims that were in the car when I disassembled it.

So the new challenge is fitting the Speed-Tech lower control arms. I attempted to test-fit them prior to painting the subframe. To say that they required "persuasion" would be a gross understatement. I thought for a second that I had gotten arms for the wrong year Camaro. I measured everything, twice and it wasn't the arms. It was the LCA mount pockets. They varied in width by as much as 3/16" and the angles relative to each other were off as well.

I spoke to Blake at Speed-Tech about this and his reply was that this was fairly common. Though more common in LA vs Norwood cars.

His suggestion:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3553.jpg

A 4" length of 1/2" all-thread
Two 1/2" nuts
Two fat washers

This nifty little device is used to "adjust" the width of the LCA mount pockets so that the LCA bushings will slip into place. Like so:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3551.jpg

The end result is that the LCA now slips easily into place w/o the need to force, sweat, curse, cajole or grab a BFH to get it in place.

The subframe and core support are now painted. I have a few more photos to take and I'll post an update on that and a more complete review of the Eastwood products in a couple of days.....maybe tonight....depends on what my wife has planned for me after work.

[Blake Foster]

whad i tell ya........ haha thank for posting that now i can add it to our instructions. hahaha that should cut down on a few phone calls

[69Nova]

That's pretty clever. Was there any heating involved or did you just crank it by hand and the pockets bent it just fine?

[VP23271]

Very cool little easy fix!

Thanks for posting all the pic's. Keep them coming.

[rwhite692]

That is a neat trick, you should send it into PHR.

I've used a porta-power hydraulic tool to open them up but that is simpler and no special tools required. Nice :thumbsup:

[Damn True]

That's pretty clever. Was there any heating involved or did you just crank it by hand and the pockets bent it just fine?

Thought about it, and had a torch at the ready but I didn't seem to need it. YMMV.

Good point though and I'd recommend that someone be prepared to apply a little thermal assistance.

[Damn True]

That is a neat trick, you should send it into PHR.

I've used a porta-power hydraulic tool to open them up but that is simpler and no special tools required. Nice :thumbsup:


Camaro Performers is free to use the tech-tip.

[Damn True]

Well, I couldn't get to an update last night. Had to go buy a new mattress last night. Those things have gotten EXPENSIVE!

Anyway....

Topics: Subframe and Core Support Paint, review of Eastwood products and installation of DSE subframe mounts.

So here is what we began with on the subframe. 40 years of gunk, thankfully no rust though.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3258.jpg

A bit of time spent with the wire brush prior to sandblasting allowed me to inspect for cracks to make sure the subframe was still useful.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3260.jpg

I did find a couple of cracks in the welds surrounding the Upper Control arm mount stands so if you are going this route check there first. Pretty simple though to grind out the old weld and into the substrate a bit to find fresh steel and re-weld it. YMMV of course.

After sandblasting and all the welding I've outlined previously the material on the subframe looked like this.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3363.jpg

and the core support (also sandblasted) looked like this...

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3589.jpg

Hindsight being 20/20 I should have painted the core support as soon as I got it back from the sandblaster. It would have saved me some time. It sat for a few weeks and developed a bit of surface rust. Nothing bad at all, but it cost me some wire-wheel time that I would have preferred to spend in other ways. Oh well, it's an opportunity to further evaluate the Eastwood stuff right? I'll keep telling myself that.

[Damn True]

So....on to the Eastwood stuff. I ordered the following material from Eastwood:

- "Pre" surface cleaner/degreaser
- Eastwood "Rust Converter"
- Eastwood "Rust Encapsulator"
- Eastwood "Chassis Black" (gloss)
- Eastwood "Underhood Black" (satin)
- One of those "Can-gun" gizmos

Really easy to order from them. I used their online ordering this time and it was pretty painless. I have ordered by phone from them as well and it went well too. You get a confirmation email with tracking number so you know when the stuff will arrive.

After calling them for more info about the rust treatment products I felt that I didn't have any rust that I felt worthy of using the Rust Converter on. So for these two bits I used the Rust Encapsulator, Chassis Black and Underhood Black only. I have some deeper surface rust in a couple of places that I'll try the Converter on later. Nothing serious though....I may blow it off and just flap-disk it down to fresh steel. We'll see.

Anyway, I am really pleased with the stuff. As I mentioned previously this stuff is better than any rattle-can material I have ever used. The "Rust Encapsulator" was used as a primer and I followed that with the Chassis Black on the subframe and the Underhood Black on the Core Support.

The Encapsulator and Chassis Black cans both have spray nozzles that project the material in a nice, tight 5" fan pattern at the 8"-10" spray distance called out in the instructions. There is really minimal overspray and it's very easy to control where the material goes, especially with the use of the "can-gun". Additionally, it was easy to ensure that enough material was deployed for coverage w/o getting so much as to experience runs.

Overall I am really happy with the result. Yes, a pro with a paint gun could get better results. Nit-pickers will see the occasional bit of dust in the paint. Yup, my garage isn't 100% clean. But this is the subframe and core support on a track/auto-x car. It's more than good enough for me.

So let's have a look at the results:

After two coats of the "Rust Encapsulator" the subframe looked like this...

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3557.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3557.jpg

It lays on shiny when wet but dries to a flat black finish. If you top-coat within 36 hours you can spray right over it. Longer than that and Eastwood recommends a light scuff with 300 grit or a red scotch-brite pad. I wound up having to do both due to time constraints and in each case the top coat turned out pretty darn nice.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3569.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3564.jpg

The flash and the florescent lights in my garage conspire to play hell with the color rendering in a few of these photos so some, like this next one look a bit grey. The surface is a uniform, gloss black though.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3567.jpg

[Damn True]

More images per post please. Truncating these posts due to the 5 image limit is a bit of a pain.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3568.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3588.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3585.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3563.jpg

One other thing about the Eastwood stuff.....since the overspray is minimal the dusting of "other stuff" in the garage is nil and the airborne material is minimal as well. There is a bit of "solvent smell", but with the garage door open while spraying it was not oppressive at all and after 1hr was difficult to detect. Good stuff. Especially if your wife has concerns about such things or you have kids or animals around.

[Damn True]

....and onto the Core Support.

Again, I coated the Core Support first with the Rust Encapsulator and then the Underhood Black.

The Underhood Black lays out in a nice satin finish. It does not appear to have a porosity though so I'm thinking it will be pretty resistant to the "greasy fingerprint" that some flat/satin finishes are susceptible to. I did accidentally grab the core support with some oil on my hands. I was able to wipe the oil off with a bit of alcohol on a rag. No mark remained.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3638.jpg

And in the following photos you can see the difference between the satin Underhood Black and the gloss Chassis Black.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3632.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3629.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3628.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3624.jpg

[Damn True]

....and finally, the installation of the DSE (Detroit Speed & Engineering) solid body bushings.

From DSE:

Detroit Speed and Engineering's solid body mounts provide a simple approach to eliminating the flex that occurs between the body and subframe connection. This will improve vehicle handling response by increasing chassis stiffness. These mounts should be used when installing subframe connectors for maximum torsional rigidity.

Detroit Speed and Engineering's uniquely designed body mounts are CNC machined from billet aluminum. The mounts are then hardcoated, not bright anodized. The hardcoating process resists corrosion that can occur between steel and aluminum surfaces with regular bright anodizing. CNC machined stainless steel bevel washers are included. 17-4 stainless steel flanged body bolts are also available as an option.

Our mounts are available in either 1/2 height or stock height.

The body mount kit includes:

- 2 core support mounts with stainless steel bevel
washers

- 4 body mounts with stainless steel bevel washers



Optional stainless body bolt kit includes:

- 2 polished 17-4 stainless steel bolts and nuts for
core support mounts

- 4 polished 17-4 stainless steel bolts for body
mounts

http://www.detroitspeed.com/images/Body/body_mounts_pic.jpg

http://www.detroitspeed.com/productpages/indproduct/bodyprod/popups/bolt_kit_pic.jpg

I opted for the standard height units. A lot of folks go for the 1/2-height but from what I've seen the 1/2-height mounts often cause interferance problems between the transmission and tunnel and between engine and hood if you aren't using a cowl induction hood....which I am not. So full height bushings it is. I don't want the car too low anyway. Real life includes driveways, speed bumps, rough roads and trailer ramps. I'll leave the "slammed" look to the fairgrounds guys.

The install of these things is really dead simple and a one-man job as well provided your back/shoulders will allow you to bench press the subframe. The interlocking bushings install above through the subframe mount pads sandwiching the subframe material and providing a rigid interface between the subframe and the body tub. A bit of anti-seize on the stainless bolts is a good idea.

I installed the bushings and bolts hand tight and pulled the jack out of the way.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3633.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3634.jpg

The next step is to align the subframe to the body tub so that the chassis is square. Also a simple task.

Start by dropping a plum-bob from the aft most mount hole for the lower control arm and make a mark on the garage floor. You can see the red marks here on bits of tape placed on the floor. Repeat this on both the left and right side of the subframe.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3635.jpg

[Damn True]

At the rear of the car, just aft and outboard of the forward leaf spring eye is a flanged oval shaped hole. Drop a plum-bob from this point and again, mark the spot on the floor.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3636.jpg

[roadbike, mountain bike and downhill bike gathering dust in the background....they hate me]

Once you have your marks you then measure diagonally between the marks (left-rear to right-front & right-rear to left-front). The values are sure to be different at first which is why I left the body bushing bolts hand-tight above. You'll have to bump, tweak and nudge the subframe around until the measurements are close to or equal. It'll take a few times to get it right but be patient and make small adjustments. Mine came out exactly equal at 90 1/16" from corner to corner.

I compared this to the measurements I took when I disassembled the car. The factory left the differential at 90 3/16" and 89 15/16". A 1/4" out of square condition. I guess that too explains the disparate alignment shim stacks.

I left the bushing at the Core Support hand tight to allow me to nudge it around when I put the bodywork back on the car at a later date.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3632.jpg


Next step will be the installation of the DSE subframe connectors. I'm starting on that tonight so we should have at least a preliminary update to this thread in a few days.

[wiedemab]

Nice posts - keep up the good work. The subframe looks good!

[Damn True]

If you've never cut a big freakin hole in a somewhat valuable car you should try it. It's a rather liberating experience.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3647.jpg

[Damn True]

Been quite a while since I've made an update to this thing. I cut the openings for the subframe connectors just before Thanksgiving and that's when things ground to a screeching halt. Thanksgiving, a ton of work before a Christmas shutdown, then two weeks of gift shopping, food shopping, cooking, cleaning, wrapping, visits hither and yon, house guests, a trip to Phoenix for New Years and then a ton of work to make up for no work over the last two weeks....cripes!

Well, I did eventually get a little time to finish the subframe connectors. Read on.......

As I mentioned previously, it's a liberating experience to cut your first big hole in an old car!

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227516.jpg?1232123916

Cutting the holes was pretty straightforward. I used a cutoff wheel on a 4.5" angle grinder. It made pretty short work of it. I think a cutoff on a pneumatic would be easier, but since the compressor I bought is not up to the task it had to do.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227517.jpg?1232123921
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227520.jpg?1232123938
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227521.jpg?1232123943

The only real concern here is to be very careful to cut the hole undersized and sneak up on the fitment of the connector. I used a grinder to whittle away at the material until the connector just fit. My welding is pretty bad so I wanted the gaps as tight as possible. Not too bad.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227518.jpg?1232123926

Then it was just a simple matter of welding it in (yeah, right!). Welding the seam on the inside of the car was pretty simple. Though 18ga to 3/16 steel requires a bit of fiddling with voltages and wire speeds. It wasn't awful though.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227524.jpg?1232123959
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227522.jpg?1232123949

Where it got tough was underneath. The outboard bit wasn't too bad but the inboard side was a horror show. It's still technically a "T-joint" but the floor pan has those rolled beads in it and one of them directly abuts the subframe connector. So instead of a straight 90degree angle the joint looks like a lower case "h" and you are trying to do your welding up inside the bottom of that lower opening. Really tough work. I burned through the floorpan in a few places and had to patch it but eventually got it all done.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227525.jpg?1232123964

The fwd spring hanger blocks a bit of the joint between the connector and the rear frame rail so I'll have to zip a bit more of that together later.

The next step is the installation of the Detroit Speed mini-tubs. These will allow as much as a 335 section tire, but I won't be going quite that wide. I'm only going to be able to fit a 275 up front and don't want a super wide disparity so I'll probably stick to a 315 or so out back. But I'll have room for more.

The first step of this process was to remove the rear suspension assembly. It came out absurdly easily. Seriously, I didn't even need to break out any penetrating oil or even so much as a breaker bar. Everything came apart with a 3/8" drive ratchet and minimal effort. God bless my grandparents for keeping this thing garaged for 35 years. It's spent more nights outside since Ive owned it (2000 on) than it has in it's entire live. The bolts looked literally brand new when I took them out.

http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=227527

The 4x4 patch of tape on the fender has marks on it identifying the axle centerline. This will be important for locating bits of the 3-link but more on that later.


http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227528.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=227528)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227526.jpg?1232123970

I'm not going to go into excruciating detail on the tub install. This thread outlines the process better than I ever could and it would be redundant to go over it in detail again. http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46900

I'll post a few photos here and there though.

Anybody need a complete rear suspension and 10-bolt rear for a 1968 Camaro? Free, if you come pick it up. Otherwise I'm tossing it.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17778227511.jpg?1232123889

[rwhite692]

Looking good! Keep the updates and photos comin'

[Damn True]

Dang....not sure why the images aren't all working.

[mdprovee]

Nice write ups..keep them coming.

[awr68]

Awesome progress! Looks like all the hard work and planning is paying off!! :thumbsup:

[Damn True]

Awesome progress! Looks like all the hard work and planning is paying off!! :thumbsup:

Thanks. I know the style and the process won't appeal to a lot of people but I'm glad that some folks "get" what I'm doing and have taken interest in the build.

[awr68]

It's also nice to see that you got the ATS pieces while you could as I know you wanted to go with them!

Still sad to hear about ATS!! :(

[Damn True]

Had a couple of requests for progress photos. Again, I am reticent to attempt to fully chronicle the process for installing mini-tubs in a 1st-Gen. It's been done, quite well I might add here: http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46900

That said. This is no easy task. By far the most labor intensive thing I've done thus far. Having the use of a Plasma Cutter is HIGHLY recommended.

Here is the passenger side with the OE tub freshly removed

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3915.jpg

Getting the decklid hinge bracket out on the pax side was something else. The drivers side was easy with five neat/clean spot welds that were easy to drill out. The Pax side though had a ton of them and they were oddly shaped . Required a fair bit of beating and banging with a chisel to get them out. Some of the welds spaned well over 1/2" and were oblong rather than round. Ugh.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3912.jpg

Sneaking up on cutting out the space for the new tub:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3920.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3921.jpg

I gotta say the instructions for this process are really bad. I mean horrible. DSE really needs to go through this process with someone who is not a member of their staff and rewrite the instructions under the assumption that the person doing the work isn't someone who has done it a dozen times.

[Damn True]

I really needed to get the plasma cutter back to the guy I borrowed it from (our technical rep from Intel loaned his to me - Thanks Anthony!) so Vince and Allen came by on a Sunday to help me get everything that needed cutting...cut.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3922.jpg

Thanks for the help guys!!!

Here is the drivers side tub being "test fit". In this photo I have yet to weld in the fill plate so the gap is a bit wide and the tub is still sitting a little crooked because I've yet to fully grind flush the flange:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3925.jpg

Welding in the fwd fill plate on the drivers side:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3929.jpg

....and the aft plate on the drivers side clamped in place and about 1/2 tacked in:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3931.jpg

I've made a bit of progress since these photos were taken. I'll snap a few more tonight. Progress has been a bit slow of late. Work has been busy (beats the alternative) and my wife and I have had a lot going on as well. I hope to be able to wrap the tubs up within the next couple of weeks and then move on to cleaning all the undercoating off the bottom of the car in preparation for starting on the 3-link install. Though I may re-hang the front sheetmetal first. Not sure...

[Damn True]

Well now....this is a really fun surprise:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CP-14.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CP-15.jpg

[mdprovee]

Pretty cool!!

[awr68]

Congrats on the ink! I noticed it this morning...but have yet to read it.

[Damn True]

So your saying you just looked at the pictures?:D


That's our Anthony.:rolleyes:

[Damn True]

So....yeah.....more photos.....

I have the fill plates on the drivers side complete.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3932.jpg

Still working on the passenger side. Nothing happened tonight. I decided to make a really nice lobster/scallop risotto for my wife tonight. BTW, Girgich Cellars Chardonnay.....get some.

So yeah....not all is grinding, wire-brushing and burning my junk with weld spatter.

We have some parts porn!

Front suspension coming together....

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3934.jpg

ATS spindle
Speed-Tech Upper/Lower Control Arms
LG Motorsports brake backing plate
$2.00 worth of angle iron from Lowes pretending to be a shock absorber

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3935.jpg

ATS/Lee Manufacturing Steering gear:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3936.jpg

I know, I know...the nice cad plating.....CA EPA said Lee can't use the stuff anymore.....freakin hippies.

Something light and itchy and strangely similar to a decklid

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3938.jpg

[Damn True]

One of my favorites up there on the top shelf......The Twist-Machine / Jakes Rod Shop rear spoiler. That thing makes me tingle in my special place.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3940.jpg

One of my next projects is to create a bulkhead out of all of these holes. Haven't decided if I want to weld a bit of metal into each of those openings, or just cover the whole thing up with a couple of sheets bent to fit. Suggestions?

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3939.jpg

Ok...totally unrelated..... my wifes father installed this sink in the house. Her parents have both long since passed and we've totally renovated the entire house. I still have some of her Dad's tools and they still get used quite a bit which I think is kinda cool.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3941.jpg

.....and a couple months ago in Grassroots Motorsports Magazine they did this silly test of commercial hand cleaners. They found that something rather odd worked better. That's whats in the white tub. A couple of days worth of coffee grounds and a few tablespoons of dawn. Seriously, it works amazingly well and sure is cheaper than commercial hand cleaners.

Thats all for now.....

[cencal69]

I now have my wife saving her coffee grounds.

[Damn True]

Well the drivers side tub is all but finished. Just need to grind the welds down a bit, close over that flap on the lower forward bit and hit it with the seam sealer.

I have a quart of seam sealer from Eastwood, but I'm wondering if it might be better to use a different product that is more of a caulk type. Any thoughts?

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3943.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3944.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3945.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3948.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3949.jpg

[GHOSTDANCER]

Very nice :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cheers:

[ElkyZO6]

Awesome job so for, can't wait to see more.:thumbsup:

[MarkM66]

A caulk type seam sealer might be easier to put in that inner to outer wheelhouse seam.

[MWCC]

Any good seam sealer would do, but the tube type that goes into your caulking gun would be easier to apply and force into the gap. Just be sure the degrease the bare steel and shoot it with some type of etch prime to avoid future rust before you apply the seam sealer.

[cencal69]

My dad told me that "your caulk shrinks after 35 years". This has me concerned.

[lowboy]

My dad told me that "your caulk shrinks after 35 years". This has me concerned.


HAHAHA LMFAO

[Damn True]

My dad told me that "your caulk shrinks after 35 years". This has me concerned.

Why was your pop's looking in my windows 5 years ago?

[cencal69]

LOL. I guess that's why they make the Corvette.

[awr68]

So your saying you just looked at the pictures?:D


That's our Anthony.:rolleyes:

HA HA, yeah I prefer pics to reading!! :lol:

Nice progress!! :thumbsup:

[Damn True]

I now have my wife saving her coffee grounds.


It really works quite well.

[Damn True]

Ahhhh the tubs are done. Thank God allmighty the tubs are done!

Well, I still need to seam seal everything, but I think I'm going to wait until after I finish the rear suspension install and seam seal the whole shootin match at once.

The black stuff is Eastwood "Rust Encapsulator". They said it makes a primer/sealer for underbody stuff so I went with it. I'll seam seal then cover everything in "Lizard Skin" sound/heat attenuation material.

Pax side tub from the inside:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4003.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3998.jpg

Drivers side tub, from the outside:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3997.jpg

Drivers side from inside the trunk.

Tweaking the trunk hinge support to fit the profile of the new tub was quite a challenge. I bent, unbent and rebent each of them at least 1/2-doz times.

The sheetmetal is a bit ugly just above the weld. I had to hammer the tub to fit the curvature of the cutout. I'll hit it with a little trunk spatter and if that doesn't hide the ripples I'll break out the hammer/dolly and smooth it.......I hope to not have to though.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3992.jpg


Finished up the subframe connector as well. Welded back in the relief cut in the seat pan trimmed the body drain plug to fit, welded that in and primed the whole mess.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4000.jpg



Next up on the hit parade.....stripping all the undercoat from the bottom of the car. This is gonna be a messy freakin job. I am not looking forward to it, but it's got to be done prior to installing the 3-link and sending it off for a cage.

Thanks for watching.....

[awr68]

Nice progress!! I know you are glad the tubs are done!! :woot:

[Steve1968LS2]

Hey, is that pink paint I spy?? ;)

Nice progress so far. I keep thinking I should have mini-tubbed the Rat.. oh well, can always do it later.

What's the next big project on the car?

[awr68]

So do you drink wine before, during, or after your shop time for the day? :lol:

[Damn True]

So do you drink wine before, during, or after your shop time for the day? :lol:


I'd just finished dinner when I went out to the garage to take the photos.

Beer while working, wine after.

Weld spatter does not complement a Carignane.

[Damn True]

Hey, is that pink paint I spy?? ;)

Nice progress so far. I keep thinking I should have mini-tubbed the Rat.. oh well, can always do it later.

What's the next big project on the car?


Lot's of it!

Well I tell ya....1/2-way through I was second guessing the tubs. I have room for a 335, though I really don't see running anything larger than a 315.

Up next is getting all the undercoat off the bottom prior to installing the 3-link.

[Damn True]

I know I said the next task was to remove undercoating from the car but I just couldn't bring myself to crawl around on the floor tonight. My back has been bothering me a bit and......oh now I'm just making excuses....I didn't freakin feel like it. Ok?

So anyway I got a bit of lightweight goodness in the mail a few weeks back:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG3938-1.jpg

Fiberglass decklid from VFN fiberglass. Weighs less than 10lbs :D

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4004.jpg

Pretty darn smooth right out of the box. I'm hoping for minimal bodywork. But...it is delivered a bit oversized which is, I suppose, better than undersized.

[Michael Scott] Thats what she said! [/Michael Scott]

Sooo I had to take a template from the OE decklid and transfer it to the fiberglass replacement. You can see here that the fiberglass decklid is about 1/4" larger than the template. It's oversized by about that much on each axis.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4008.jpg

Transferring the template. I am totally good at coloring!!!!

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4013.jpg

The line is actually at least 3/16" fat all the way around. So what I'll do is cut to the line then begin test fitting and sneak up on the final dimension little by little.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4014.jpg

After a bit of sanding....but quite a bit more to go.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4016.jpg

[sik68]

Can't believe how much progress you've made...puts the progress on my car to shame! Do you have a goal date set? 1/2-Trak and Trackday gotta tear up Norcal ASAP.

[Damn True]

Can't believe how much progress you've made...puts the progress on my car to shame! Do you have a goal date set? 1/2-Trak and Trackday gotta tear up Norcal ASAP.

Are you kidding? You are practically running. I'm still doing fab work and haven't even started on the biggest part, putting in the rear suspension.

No goal date. Originally I wanted it to move under it's own power before my 40th birthday (September) but that isn't going to happen. I'm just doing all the stuff that doesn't cost any real money right now. Just time and elbow grease. I still need to get our front and back yards landscaped. House is built, but no yard. Can't do anything expensive until that is done. Gotta keep the wife happy.

As for the last bit. You are on! I plan to auto-x the thing A LOT and get to as many track days as I can.

[Damn True]

Knocked out a couple of things tonight.

Had to re-clock the brake cooling ducts on the spindles because they were going to hit the frame. So I had to disassemble the spindle & hub. Easier than it sounds with the fine instructions on Tylers website. How many mfr's post this kind of detail on their website?

Data sheets and install instructions here: http://www.t56kit.com/downloads/

The spindle instructions here: http://www.americantouringspecialties.com/downloads/files/7.pdf

In the process of re-clocking the backing plate/duct I had to relocate the three holes that are used to clamp the backing plate between the spindle and hub. In doing so I have discovered my new favorite tool.

The uni-bit is freaking awesome! Where have these things been all my life!?!?!?!

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4089.jpg

So got that done on both sides pretty easily and went to work on a little more lightweight love.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4092.jpg

These things weigh NO-THING. Two of them together weigh a tick under 1/2 of just one of the steel OE units. And......super-bonus.....they FIT! I did have to drill all the holes, but hell, that's a whole lot easier than......don't get me started.....

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4093.jpg

See....they fit! Sweet.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4091.jpg


...and yeah....I'm blowing off the VFN decklid and getting this:

http://i44.tinypic.com/1zwp66r.jpg

Anyone wanna take on the task of finishing fitting that fiberglass unit is welcome to it. I'm out of talent and patience with it. PM me and we can agree on a fair price.

[ROKN69]

Very nice project, DT. And well planned out, I might add. :) I look forward to your progress reports.

[Damn True]

Holy schnikey work has been busy. Haven't had a day off in close to three weeks and thus haven't had much time to work on the car lately but found myself with a couple of free hours tonight. So I decided to remove a big heavy thing from the car:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4099.jpg

The heater core. Lead, brass, ugly and GONE!

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4100.jpg

But.....a big gaping hole. A number of different things I could do here. I could buy one of those DSE panels and pay quite a lot for what in reality is a simple hunk of steel with a bevel rolled on the edge.....nah! I could do the street-rod-esque firewall smoothing bit......nah!

Which begs the question; "What Would Smokey Do?"

Well.....I'd like to think Smokey would have just tossed the factory delete plate on the hole and moved on. I went a tad further than just that, by welding up the mounting holes from the OE heater core, and welding in a fill plate in the original hole. Then drilled and cleco'd in the panels to check the fit. Took me just shy of two hours.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4104.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4105.jpg

I'll finish it up with seam sealer and rivets after I paint the firewall. Of course that won't happen till the cage is finished.

There will be a heat/def unit of course. Vintage Air makes this nifty little heat only (no AC) unit.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2242841640065608932BKChyx

Yes.......I am avoiding climbing under the car and removing the undercoating.

[GHOSTDANCER]

Looking good :thumbsup: :cheers:

[70rs]

It is coming along great! I read the page in the mag when that issue came out and just today found the build thread. I'm glad I did! Subscribed!

[Damn True]

Been putting off this task for too long. Time to get after that damned undercoating. Mercy sakes this is a miserable job! The best (worst) part is that when the car is done, nobody will ever, ever say, "Gee, you did a really nice job removing the old undercoating. Completely thankless labor.

I'd scraped for a while and swept the floor when the debris got too messy twice before I took this photo. This is the third cycle of mess from the fourth circle of hell. Nothing but a heat gun, various scrapers and a wire wheel......and beer......and the Giants on the radio.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4201.jpg

Looking from the drivers side rear toward the front. I left the bottom of the trunk pan alone, that'll be cut out. The dark bits forward of the back seatbelt mounts are just grease/dirt. That'll come off with simple green

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4202.jpg


I made it to the front seatbelt mounts and had to stop.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/CIMG4205.jpg

I hope to finish the scraping tomorrow and start with the de-greasing. I have a plan in mind for that. Not sure if it'll work. Good thing the wife will be away. It's going to be messy.

[Rick Dorion]

I used a heat gun and scrapers too. Then I went back and would warm up a small area I wanted to finish and use a rag with mineral spirits. Too many hours though! Nice progress.

[Damn True]

Well, I finally got all the undercoat scraped of the bottom of the car. What a horrible job that was. My garage floor is a wreck!

With that done, though I had time to work a bit on the assembly of the steering system last night.

Started with the idler arm and steering box. Found out from David Pozzi that there can be some bind with the idler if the drag link is not installed with the idler arm/subframe bolts loose. He's right. I didn't loosen the bolts before I put the drag link in and....Yup. Sure enough. Bound up like a colon full of cheddar cheese.

Not to self and anyone else with a Camaro: David Pozzi knows his stuff. Listen to him.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4206.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4209.jpg

The steering box is an ATS 670 unit. These are built for ATS by Tom Lee. I've had the pleasure of speaking to him on the phone. He struck me as one of those eccentric old wizards. When he isn't building super high-zoot stuff for teams in NASCAR, ALMS and others he works on stuff like this for us mortals.

The ATS/LEE 670 boxes are initially built on an assembly line with normal production tolerances. ATS's spec for the Lee box requires that every brand new unit is completely taken apart, re-honed, blueprinted, re-valved, dyno tested, magna-fluxed, and finished in some kind plating. They used to use a really sexy looking cadmium, but the CA EPA (nazis) rules are such that they are now using zinc. Still a good looking unit, but not as cool as the cad plating. These are race proven precision boxes, built exclusively for ATS. I don't know all the details of what Lee does with the valves, but I've driven a car with one of these in it, and it is by far the best feeling recric-ball steering gear I've ever felt. Better than a lot of rack/pinion setups in terms of feel.

Tyler, feel free to expand on this a bit.

Next up is the tie rod assemblies. The inner is a run of the mill Moog unit. The outer though is kinda neat. Baer brakes makes these things called "Baer Trackers" (a bit silly) but cool. Big honkin high offset rod end connected to a 1-3/16" dia aluminum coupler that threads directly onto the inner tie rod. The Baer Trackers provide the capability to adjust out any remaining bump-steer from the system by swapping the cad-plated shims (see photo) either above or below (or both in differential amounts) the rod end. A bit bulky, but still lighter than the traditional tie rod it replaces.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4210.jpg

So with those bits installed I can see about mocking up some of my clearances.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4217.jpg

That's a 275x40x17 tire on a borrowed 17x9 vette rim. The offset of the wheel is nothing like what I'm going to run, but it gives me something to calculate from.

....and it looks like I have some "cipherin" to do here.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4213.jpg

With the steering arm bolted directly to the spindle, the tie rod assembly set at the OE length and the max offset on the bump steer adjuster the rod end crashes with the inner flange of the wheel.

Spoke with Tyler about it this morning, and the solution is not that big of a deal. I can space the steering arm inboard a bit, shorten the tie rod assembly accordingly, and the wheel spacer I will need to run to clear the Wilwood 6-pot brakes will move the wheel outboard enough to provide the required clearance.

It's always something isn't it?

Not to worry though. With the Speed-Tech control arms adjustable steering stop feature I'll be able to make the above modifications without much negative impact on total available steering angle. SWEET!

[Damn True]

Que suspenseful music..........


The 3-link install begins.


Step one, the front x-member.

Take a minute to perve out on Matt's welding.....it's a shame it'll be covered up....not to mention it'll have to spend the rest of it's days next to my slipshod hack welds.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4225.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4226.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4229.jpg

Start by using the all-thread to lift the x-member into position. Ensuring it is level f/r and l/r with the angle finder.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4230.jpg

The first place to make contact is the center of the trans tunnel.

MORE HOLES!!!

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4224.jpg

Lift a bit more and the front trailing arm mount boss makes contact with the torque boxes.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4232.jpg

The floor is two layers of steel here. This was tough to cut exactly vertical because all the goofy curves and angles in the sheet metal made it tough to keep track of the correct axis.

Sneaking up on it little by little....

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4233.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4234.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4384.jpg

In that last one there you can see I've started to work my way down the sides of the tunnel as well.

Something of a gap in my photo taking.....skip ahead, skip ahead, skip ahead....

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4385.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4388.jpg

Just clamped in at this point. I still need to clean up the edges and weld.

[70rs]

Looking good! Thanks for posting all the pics. Can't wait to see more.:thumbsup:

[Damn True]

Update:

Tacked in the front x-member a week or so ago. Not sure why I didn't get an update in then. Life interrupted I suppose.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4398.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4400.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4401.jpg

Then I was able to get crackin on the rear x-member which also provides the support structure for the watts link.

Began by using the axle centerline marks that I'd put on the fenders prior to removal of the OE rear suspension to provide a datum to measure from:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4402.jpg

Then measured back from that datum point 5-3/8" to the spot that will be the front of the rear x-member. Then used the back edge of the x-member to mark my rear-most cut line.

Hmm, don't have a photo of the hole. I do enjoy cutting big holes in the car for some reason....not sure why.

Anyway, here are some photos of the rear x-member just clamped in place. I have a couple of questions that I hope Mark, James, Matt or Katz can answer and one for Alan as well. But first, the pics:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4462.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4466.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4459.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4461.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4457.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4458.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4455.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4467.jpg



So, the questions:

Mark, James, Matt or Katz:
Will the trunk floor be welded to that x-member where it makes contact? Or will I cut it further back and join it to the fill panel once its trimmed to fit?

[Vegas69]

I see booze in every photo. Are you sure your working on the right end of the car? :cheers: Not sure I'd use the factory axle centerline. That is, unless you measured it from the front spring mounting points.

[BritishGreen68]

I thought the point of the adjustable bumpsteer spacers was to get the tie rod as close to parallel with the control arm as possible, so they pivot on the same axis, this pic looks like the tie rod is way to low....?? Im not an expert i just thought that was the way to do it..?
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4213.jpg

[Vegas69]

At ride height Chris....

[James OLC]

a few things True...

1. you can weld the trunk floor to the crossmember where they are in contact to the rear (depending on what you will be doing with your cell) but...

2. you need to think about your exhaust - you can see why I cut the (trunk) corners at 45 degrees where the exhaust reliefs are in the crossmember (assuming you are taking the exhaust back) and

3. when you build your panel to the front of the crossmember be sure to build in some relief for the upper shock mounts - I just dimpled the panel slightly to allow for some clearance


with respect to the bumpsteer photograph - I'm not sure that True actually has the spacers where he wants them - but the key to the spacers is to be able to properly set bump regardless of rules of thumb. On my car we needed 0.8" to get the best curve but the goal is to be able to adjust to what works best in the individual application.

[Damn True]

I thought the point of the adjustable bumpsteer spacers was to get the tie rod as close to parallel with the control arm as possible, so they pivot on the same axis, this pic looks like the tie rod is way to low....?? Im not an expert i just thought that was the way to do it..?
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/suspension/CIMG4213.jpg

Chris,

I threw the whole stack of spacers on there for two reasons:

1) Because James' car, as described, currently has .8" of spacers needed to correct bumpsteer on his particular setup. Though they (James & David) are in the process of correcting this with a potential solution that may be useful to me as well.

2) Because I wanted to see what the worst case scenario would look like so I know what issues I may, but hopefully will not have to address.

[SickSpeedMonte]

To minimize bumpsteer, you dont necessarily want the tie rods parallel to the LCA's. You want them create a line that passes through the instant center at ride height, and follows it for as much of the suspension range as possible.

[justin_corona]

hey the build is pretty sick your making some progress a lot more than i would get done. the car is going to be sick when its done. you rear deck spoiler and valence where am i to fiend some like that ?

[yamadog]

What happned to this project? I love this car!!!!! Jason

[Damn True]

Went stagnant for a while due to family responsibilities. Back at it now.

it's been a while. Roughly 2.5yrs if my math is correct since I've touched my car. If you follow my blog at all the reasons why should be known. But if not have a look here:

http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...ell-lived.html

here:

http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...-you-suck.html

here:

http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...-in-tears.html

and finally:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/mer...?pid=168113720

In the last 2.5yrs I've lost all my Grandparents and a dog. The last 2yrs have been spent caring for my Grandfather who had dementia/Alzheimer's. Dealing with other members of my family, various healthcare interests all while watching my Grandfather be slowly killed by his own brain. It's put a toll on me and my marriage and we are just now beginning to catch our breath and start thinking about resuming some form of "normal" life.

So the other day I remembered a conversation I had with my Grandmother about 4yrs ago when I shared with her what I was doing with her car. Couldn't stop thinking about it all day. When I got home from work I went into the garage, cried a bit and started clearing the space around the car and on the workbench. Wound up spending about 5hrs out there. The last 3 or so actually under the car with a grinder and the welder.

My welding is shaky...but damn it felt nice, cathartic and somehow right again to be working on it and doing something for myself.

89382

Spent some time on the phone with some really great and helpful vendors over the last few days that I will call out individually as appropriate. I have quite a bunch of parts coming my way and the updates will follow.

Finished the mock-up of the rear suspension tonight and loaded the housing, x-member and various rods into the wagon to go to powder coating tomorow. It pains me to cover up all of Matts beautiful work.

Next up, finishing up the sheet metal portions above and around the upper link. Kinda kicking my ass as to how to do it cleanly.

Axles arrived today from Currie.

[Ron in SoCal]

God bless True. Going/went through that with my Mom. In her better days she still remembered the Camaro.

It means something, so don't ever give up. :cheers:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Went stagnant for a while due to family responsibilities. Back at it now.

it's been a while. Roughly 2.5yrs if my math is correct since I've touched my car. If you follow my blog at all the reasons why should be known. But if not have a look here:

http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...ell-lived.html

here:

http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...-you-suck.html

here:

http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...-in-tears.html

and finally:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/mer...?pid=168113720

In the last 2.5yrs I've lost all my Grandparents and a dog. The last 2yrs have been spent caring for my Grandfather who had dementia/Alzheimer's. Dealing with other members of my family, various healthcare interests all while watching my Grandfather be slowly killed by his own brain. It's put a toll on me and my marriage and we are just now beginning to catch our breath and start thinking about resuming some form of "normal" life.

So the other day I remembered a conversation I had with my Grandmother about 4yrs ago when I shared with her what I was doing with her car. Couldn't stop thinking about it all day. When I got home from work I went into the garage, cried a bit and started clearing the space around the car and on the workbench. Wound up spending about 5hrs out there. The last 3 or so actually under the car with a grinder and the welder.

My welding is shaky...but damn it felt nice, cathartic and somehow right again to be working on it and doing something for myself.

89382

Spent some time on the phone with some really great and helpful vendors over the last few days that I will call out individually as appropriate. I have quite a bunch of parts coming my way and the updates will follow.

Finished the mock-up of the rear suspension tonight and loaded the housing, x-member and various rods into the wagon to go to powder coating tomorow. It pains me to cover up all of Matts beautiful work.

Next up, finishing up the sheet metal portions above and around the upper link. Kinda kicking my ass as to how to do it cleanly.

Axles arrived today from Currie.

Welcome back and hope to help you out as much as I can. Your grandfather was truly blessed to have you for a grandson. Sorry for your loss.


Let me know if you need a hand with the sheetmetal cover. Mi shopa Su shopa

[Greg from Aus]

Sorry for your Loss, I too have a dad that has dementia. It's a terrible disease. I hope things look up real soon.

[Flash68]

Good to see you back here True. :flag2:

:thumbsup:

[JKnight]

Glad to see you back on it True. My condolences on your recent losses. You're a good man for keeping your priorities straight through these tough times.

Looking forward to hearing about your plans for the front end, since you're selling off the modified stock subframe approach.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

did they ship with the bearings on?how do them axles fit?

[Damn True]

Yep, assembled. I'll let ya know when the housing gets back from coating next week.

[WSSix]

Glad to know you're back working on the car again, True. Really sorry for your losses and tough time but good to know you made it through.

[Jr]

What's the front suspension setup going to be?

[Damn True]

Picked up the Lateral Dynamics bits from the powder coater this afternoon and there's a big pile of boxes stacked in the garage.

Actual work...coming soon!

[GrabberGT]

Picked up the Lateral Dynamics bits from the powder coater this afternoon and there's a big pile of boxes stacked in the garage.

Actual work...coming soon!

:clap: Yours is the first rendering I saved to my hard drive when I discovered Pro Touring.

For the newbs here...

[Damn True]

Wow, thanks!

[Damn True]

Still working on the sheet metal that encloses the area above the LD 3-link. Spent the better part of the afternoon cutting poster-board templates and whittling bits of new sheet metal to fit hunks of old, pink sheet metal.

Nowhere near done.

I'm certain that someone of greater skill than myself would have this segment whipped in a day but I'm still having fun doing it myself.

[Damn True]

I've fabricated a solution to the above and hope to weld it in place on Sunday. Once complete, that will wrap up the chassis fabrication work that I will be doing myself (the cage will be done by a pro).

So...to the matter of protecting this hard fought tin work; Does one seam-seal before or after putting some primer on the bare metal?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I've fabricated a solution to the above and hope to weld it in place on Sunday. Once complete, that will wrap up the chassis fabrication work that I will be doing myself (the cage will be done by a pro).

So...to the matter of protecting this hard fought tin work; Does one seam-seal before or after putting some primer on the bare metal?

Seam sealer is water based and its best to put on over etching primer. Can't wait to see the cage work.

[Damn True]

Seam sealer is water based and its best to put on over etching primer. Can't wait to see the cage work.

Well, I'm hoping it goes straight to your shop for electrical & drivetrain after Alan is done with it.

Thanks.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Well, I'm hoping it goes straight to your shop for electrical & drivetrain after Alan is done with it.

Thanks.

Yep, you are on the roster.

I'm hopin Blaine will be a few weeks.

Do you have an engine yet? I have a nice 394 stroker that needs a home. :trophy-1302:

[Leroy Rochester]

Nice to see someone else on here tearing up their grandmother's Camaro!

Definitely will enjoy following this one going forward. Good luck!

[Damn True]

Things were progressing nicely this afternoon then the last two (on the right) welds exploded like a couple of zits...

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/DSCN3177_zps1a8e81ca.jpg

...outta gas. Damn.

[Damn True]

Yep, you are on the roster.

I'm hopin Blaine will be a few weeks.

Do you have an engine yet? I have a nice 394 stroker that needs a home. :trophy-1302:

Good. Fast. Cheap.

Alan only offers the first option. I'm in line after Rob Zeiger's Fox body. I've got a fair bit to accomplish before the end of May.

I've not. When last we spoke you were going to get me some dyno info for the 500 & 550 options.

[Damn True]

Oh, looks like I lost a few posts here in the great server meltdown of 2014. I'll have to add them back this weekend. Till then.....

Box-o-goodies arrived yesterday containing amongst other things this lovely hunk of metal:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/C36E48FD-232A-43A1-BCF7-C8C2AEFAB663_zpsmfingyj0.jpg

[Flash68]

The new Aero I presume?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Certainly looks light weight.

[Damn True]

The new Aero I presume?

Ding-ding-ding!

[Damn True]

Certainly looks light weight.

Surprisingly so.

...the box that held the rotors though...ZOIKS!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

what? you didn't get scalloped and drilled?

[Flash68]

what? you didn't get scalloped and drilled?

Drilled FTL.

[Damn True]

what? you didn't get scalloped and drilled?

You and I have been on these forums a long time my friend.


Brake system assembly began today though somewhat truncated by an insidiously progressive "honey-do" list.

Two steps forward and one step back in the form of a wheel stud shoulder that is .020 bigger than the hole in the Wilwood hat.

[Ketzer]

Two steps forward and one step back in the form of a wheel stud shoulder that is .020 bigger than the hole in the Wilwood hat.

Thank God somebody besides me has this kind of luck.... only twenty thou? Bigger hammer! :twak:


Jeff-

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thank God somebody besides me has this kind of luck.... only twenty thou? Bigger hammer! :twak:


Jeff-

Good step drill will solve that.

[Damn True]

Good step drill will solve that.

Yep. I'll be making small holes into slightly bigger holes tonight.

Such is the challenge of systems integration.

[Damn True]

Thank God somebody besides me has this kind of luck.... only twenty thou? Bigger hammer! :twak:


Jeff-

Yep, but it's enough to keep the hat from seating all the way down on the flange. The shoulder on the stud is ~.520 and the hole in the hat is .500 exactly.

The hats index to the ring on the flange so boring them out with a step-drill shouldn't cause a problem.

[Damn True]

Forgot to put the posts back that were lost in the server debacle, this and the next are from about 2wks ago...........

So the last substantive fabrication/welding task was to finish the install of the Lateral Dynamics 3-Link. I had the front x-member in before work stalled.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3157_zps55d4bd8d.jpg

The remaining bits were installing the rear x-member, closing out the torque box, and installing the close-out panels/boxes to make room for the upper trailing arm.

Here's the rear x-member installed. I had it powder coated in a light gray. I hated to cover up Matt's welds, but the guy at the PC shop said a clear PC would discolor and look really lousy.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3153_zps95903836.jpg

For some reason, I really enjoy doing those rosette welds. They're just kinda fun. As you can see, I had to put a doubler on the frame to take up the gap between the length of the x-member and the width of the frame. James had to pound his frame rails out to make his fit. Yeah late-60's manufacturing inconsistencies!

Here's the torque box closeouts. I hadn't finished grinding the welds down when I snapped the pic. Kathy was calling me to dinner.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3156_zps96064539.jpg

Then I roughed in the trunk pan closeout and the doghouse that houses the upper link on the rear end housing.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3162_zpsd1073ff6.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3163_zps9ffbae7e.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3164_zpsff6c7ed8.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3171_zps7594a362.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3174_zpse3a7445c.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3172_zps327d2017.jpg

[Damn True]

Next up was to figure out a reasonably clean way to close out the area above the tunnel where the upper trailing arm will reside. The part that came with the kit was ok, but I didn't like the area around the fwd upper trailing arm mount. It didn't fit tight enough to the mount to allow the hardware to be outside the doghouse, and it was too narrow to access it if you put it inside.

Noodled around a bunch of ideas, including what James did in cutting a tunnel out of another car (t-bird I think) and I looked at using a Harley FL front fender. Almost did that, but once I cut the rolled edges off the fender it was way too flimsy.

So, what I wound up doing is what you see below. Pretty simple. I just struck a template off the fwd edge of the upper trailing arm mount, transferred that to the end of that 6" wide sheet and put a gentle bend it it to land it on the top of the rear doghouse.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3176_zpse303eee0.jpg

As you can see, the sides aren't symmetrical. Because neither is the tunnel so that made forming the sides a bit troublesome. This presented another, among many opportunities to discover that my wife is much smarter than I am.

So I'm kneeling inside the cabin of the car, whittling away at a sheet of poster board trying to make a template that matches the nutty bunch of contours from the fwd x-member all along the pan/tunnel, and up onto the fwd face of the rear doghouse. Cut-curse-mark-cut-curse-mark-cut-curse-mark.... So Kathy pokes her head into the car and says "why don't you use a piece of wire and bend it to all those contours and then transfer that to the posterboard?"

In less time than I'd expended nibbling away at the paper, I drove to Lowes, bought 8' of solid core copper ground wire (a bit larger dia than coat hanger wire but more pliable, I forget what gauge) bent it, transferred it to paper and it fit pretty close to perfect.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3181_zps71bc7802.jpg

So there is the part tacked in place at the top & bottom, you can see a bit of light peeking in the gap, but it's tiny. A few nudges with a body hammer from beneath closed those up tight. BTW, the gizmo to the right is a "Gorilla Torch", it's made by a company called JOBY. The legs articulate and will wrap around almost anything and the feet are magnetic so it can be placed just about anywhere. Comes in really handy when there isn't enough ambient light to see what you are doing through the auto-darkening shield. Especially when welding under the car as you can focus the beam right where you are trying to weld allowing to to see perfectly before beginning the weld.

Quite a bit of yoga required to weld that part in, but despite that I was able to do some ok work.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3180_zps931f39cd.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3177_zps1a8e81ca.jpg

Adequate given my meager skill set and experience.

So. Up next is front suspension install (v2.0) and assembly of the rear end housing......

[Damn True]

In this update I'm wrapping up (blessedly) the rear suspension install.

If you've not been following along, this is the Lateral Dynamics 3-Link System. Sadly, the company went out of business a few years ago so here's hoping nothing ever goes wrong with this damn thing or I'm hosed.

It's a really nicely designed system though. In use on James Shipka's "One Lap Camaro" http://www.onelapofamerica.com/images/history/2013/entrantPhotos/3381.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T8y_Q5RKcw

....and Yancy John's (former owner Steve Rupp) "Bad Penny" Camaro.
http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/ac19_JjkP_0.jpg

http://youtu.be/Ay2w0OGDRpQ?t=34s

Both tuned by David and Mary Pozzi and both work spectacularly well. There aren't many of these kits in existence, Mike Kelcy recently got his on the road and that is all the ones that belong to folks I know.

Matt Rogers did all the fabrication on these and I'll be damned if I've ever seen better fitment and welding. Broke my heart to cover it up in powder coating.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3271_zps05ef93ef.jpg

As you can see, I had the housing powder coated in a light gray to aid in spotting any leaks or cracks down the road. The 3rd member is a Strange (iron) 9" with 3.70 gears and a Detroit TrueTrac diff. Should be plenty stout.

The hardware in the system is all really top notch as well. I sure wish the manufacturer was still around, I'd love to have a list of the rod end sources and PN's for replacements if needed.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3270_zps97f81376.jpg

The install of this system was the most challenging part of the build thus far. I went into it with my eyes wide open on that and thanks in large part to Matt, David Pozzi and James Shipka I got through it. Here's hoping the performance potential of this system over some of the more "plug-n-play" bolt in kits makes it worth it.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3277_zps03ab4aa3.jpg

As you can probably tell, the rear alignment is way off. Not worried about that right now. But I'll get it in the ballpark before it rolls out of the garage at the end of this month.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3278_zps6d051e85.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3274_zps4d733125.jpg

Next update with pics will cover the front suspension and shocks.....

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Looking great True!!

Don't worry about the parts if you break, alot of it was off the shelf. Heims are standard and I believe the bell crank came from Fay's. You gonns paint the entire underside gray?

[glassman]

It looks very good. If it drives half as good as it looks you'll be dialed....

[Ron in SoCal]

Love it True! Welcome back :thumbsup:

[Damn True]

Looking great True!!

Don't worry about the parts if you break, alot of it was off the shelf. Heims are standard and I believe the bell crank came from Fay's. You gonns paint the entire underside gray?

Paint the bottom of a car?

http://www.twonkhammer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Implied-Facepalm.jpg

Nah, the black that's on it now is just Eastwood primer to cover the bare metal from where I scraped off the old nasty undercoat. It'll get seam sealer where needed and maybe a bit of Lizard Skin to take the edge off the heat and noise. That's it.

I've always kinda thought that smoothing firewalls was a bit of a pointless expense but body working the underside of a car is like scented toilet paper. It's just gonna get crap all over it so why?

[Damn True]

It looks very good. If it drives half as good as it looks you'll be dialed....


Right now, that is NOT a compliment.

But :thankyou:

[Track Junky]

Hey true don't forget about Carl Chicca's '69 Camaro also running the LD set up. Probably the fastest '69 Camaro on a road course.

Glad to see the huge progress :thumbsup:

[67zo6Camaro]

That's a great looking 3 link set up. It should serve you many good times on the autocross and track. I like the way the lower link bars are skewed slightly inward toward the driveshaft center line of the car, giving the total 3 link system better articulation. Nice set-up with the Watts link in the back.

Great work and looking forward to seeing what you do with the front.

[David Pozzi]

True,
I see some issues in your photos.
1. The front upper link mount can hit the driveshaft if it intrudes past the tunnel on the left side. I had to trim it on Penny & OLC.

2. The brake line hose anchors need to be moved to the front of the housing. If you use the tabs on top, they may get pinched against the frame rail. They did on Bad Penny.

3. The shock hose fitting will be super close to the exhaust pipes. Three options, notch the frame rail & put the hose outward, notch the crossmember more inboard & move the pipes in a bit. Run 2.5" tail pipes & dimple them in near the fitting. You don't want those fittings getting too hot, there are seals in them. O.l.c. Has 3" pipes which are dimpled.

[Damn True]

Thanks for jumping in Dave, appreciate it! In order:

1 - I'm not following you in this

2 - That one I recall on BP. Gotta call Chris' guys and order a set of these:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2nb94wx.jpg

3 - Noticed that right away. I'm planning on a 2.5" exhaust anyway to keep the sound in the "I get along with my neighbors" range. Along with that, I'm thinking a heat shield riveted to the trunk floor should do the trick.

[Payton King]

Lookin' good!

Alignment does not seem to be off. The watts will be center of car not center of housing. In line with drive shaft and it has an offset pinion like all 9 inches. Watts will be 2 inches over from center of housing.

[Jr]

True,

Looks great.

What are your plans for the front suspension? Something aftermarket?

[Damn True]

True,

Looks great.

What are your plans for the front suspension? Something aftermarket?

We'll get to that..... :ups:

[David Pozzi]

I can't find a photo of it, but if the front crossmember intrudes into the drive shaft tunnel on the left side, the drive shaft will hit it. So look at the rectangular tube on the left and right sides of the tunnel. If it is not flush, cut it flush and cap it off with another piece of flat steel.

When the watts bell crank is the same height as the drive shaft, it won't move side to side, but as the bell crank rises, it moves a lot more.
David

[ArisESQ]

http://www.themopardude.com/image/34779875.jpg

Still think you should paint it pink. I think that's masculine in some cultures or something.

[David Pozzi]

Check the shock eye aluminum inserts for binding at full droop & compression. I had to turn down the OD a little.
The brake hose anchors you have may work as long as the hoses run under the housing & not over it.

If you have the ATS transmission crossmember, I highly recommend you cut the tunnel & raise it above the trans about an inch. We had Shipka's trans up to the stock tunnel & got by but it was at the limit.

I would put a bump stop somewhere to prevent bottoming out the shocks or the axle hitting the frame. There are small stops on the shocks but they are not tall enough to help.

[Damn True]

Thanks for the tribal knowledge David. Adding this stuff to the punch list.

[gnx7]

Amazing amount of fabwork time/skills put into this machine!

Progressing very very nicely.

[Damn True]

Amazing amount of fabwork time/skills put into this machine!

Progressing very very nicely.


Wow. Thank you very much. The goal from the outset was to do as much of the work as possible myself in this suburban 2-car garage. Obviously that precludes some tasks such as the cage (no room for a bender and no need for one once this car is done) and paint (illegal here) will have to be farmed out. I'm also having the electrical and engine install done by pros. Those systems are too critical and too expensive for trial & error.

It has been a lot of work (but satisfying) and a long time (unavoidable) but I appreciate the kind words.

Should have another update this week, maybe tomorrow, workload permitting.

[Damn True]

And now, on to front suspension v2.0.

I feel like I need to start with explaining why I felt the change was necessary. I count among my friends James Shipka and David Pozzi. They've worked together for years developing James' 1967 Camaro. When I began my build my intent was to duplicate his efforts. His car and mine share the same Lateral Dynamics 3-Link rear suspension. I followed with great interest their efforts to get the most out of the factory subframe with the ATS Chicane coil over conversion and AFX spindles. If you've followed that car at all you know that they came up against a number of limitations with respect to the ability to fit larger tires and do so in a fashion that didn't negatively impact geometry. Eventually, David created a solution to address both. David decided that he didn't want to duplicate the fix for me and I totally understand and respect that decision. So without a commercially available fix to the limitations of the AFX spindle I was at a decision point. Live with the limitations, change to an aftermarket subframe or change front suspension suppliers.

The first option seemed like not much of an option at all and the second was a hit to the budget for the project that I had a hard time justifying especially given the sweat-equity I had built into the factory subframe. When Ridetech released their new TruTurn solution I quickly realized that what they'd arrived at was very similar to what David had done on James' car and I began to explore that solution further.

Full disclosure, I was a critic of Ridetech when they first entered this market with what then were mainly air sprung solutions. After seeing the effort they've put into developing legitimate high performance suspension solutions over the last few years I can say that though my criticisms may have been valid at the time, they no longer are.

What sealed the deal though was the addition to Ridetech's offerings of a true 3-way adjustable damper. Developed in partnership with Fox Racing these are truly top notch pieces. In a former career I worked closely with engineers at Fox on development of a number of bicycle suspension dampers and I'm well aware of the depth of their experience, the talent of their engineering staff and the resources they can employ to develop a solution to a unique challenge. If you aren't aware (you probably are) Fox in addition to being a leading supplier of motorcycle, bicycle and snowmobile suspension is among the leaders in developing cutting edge off-road truck dampers as well. With data and creativity coming from those various areas of expertise and the knowledge and resources available I had no doubt that the solution to be co-developed with Fox and Ridetech would be a good one. The results found on James car proved out that assumption and I was sold.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/BA2352FA-782B-498B-8D09-821343F914C2_zpsq9pbo9nb.jpg

Further, I want to point out the stellar customer service provided by Ridetech both pre and post-sale. Darren Schilling is RT's lead outside sales guy but he isn't some drone taking orders and writing down credit card numbers. The man absolutely knows the product and is an enthusiast of the first order. As an anecdote; while installing the front suspension I arrived at point in the install where the instructions for the TruTurn system installation and the spindle installation had a bit of a disconnect. So at roughly 6:30PM on a Friday night I tapped out a short email to him on my iPhone, hit send and went in the house fully expecting to get an answer sometime on Monday. I picked up my phone about an hour later to make a call and saw that Darren had replied to my question. At 9:30PM on a Friday night.

Now YMMV on that and I certainly wouldn't tell you to expect Ridetech to always be as responsive, after working hours, on a Friday but I think it speaks to the dedication of the staff that Bret has built.

So, on to the install.....

The Ridetech TruTurn is based on a proprietary spindle that has a built-in drop of (IIRC) 2" and is modified in terms of the height of the spindle as well. It does however use a factory pattern hub and brake mounting matching that of a '68 Camaro disk brake spindle so any brake bracket or hub that would work on a factory spindle will work on the RT spindle but you get the improved geometry.

http://www.ridetech.com/store/images/detailed/0/spindle.jpg

Further, the RT system employs a custom steering arm and drag link offset bracket that the corrects for the steering geometry which is altered by the steering arm. If you look closely at the system and the changes made by David to James' car you will see the similarities in how the two solutions were arrived at.

http://www.ridetech.com/images/category/tru-turn-diagram.jpg

All the above is designed to work with RT's control arms.

The first thing I noticed upon opening the massive pile of boxes was how well the stuff is packaged. The Samsonite gorilla (some of you are too young to know what I'm talking about here, youtube it) couldn't have hurt the contents of those boxes. I filled two entire trash cans with the styrofoam packing material used to protect the parts.

The second thing that struck me was how bloody nice the machining and fitment of the parts was.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3195_zps167cecf2.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3196_zps1c8c544e.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3201_zps55ce0af3.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/88F00757-4B45-4B9F-939D-2E814E50325D_zpsh0jw4ht4.jpg

The attention to detail on this stuff is apparent. The install kit for the shocks comes with a variety of bushings that will allow fitment to darn near any application.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3202_zps49e95793.jpg

....darn near. Because the Chicane coilover mount has one shock mount stub permanently affixed I had to machine my own bushing for one side. The means of doing so violated every safety discussion my HS shop teacher ever had and I shant disclose it here. It wasn't particularly difficult....it was just unsafe. It'd have been easier, and safer, with a proper lathe or mill...but I have neither. At any rate between RT's supplied parts and a bit of ingenuity (cough) I made it work.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3199_zpsc54b256e.jpg

The spring perch and pre-load collars fit perfectly and adjustments are buttery smooth given the precision machining of the shock bodies.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3198_zps2f2fd1a9.jpg

...and the shocks come with top notch springs from Hyperco. Tough to beat those. I'm starting with baseline rates of 700 front and 300 rear and as I'm sure you noticed in previous posts, I used the RT shocks in the rear as well....

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3279_zpsa21f0458.jpg

Next item up was RT's front sway bar assembly. Again, really superb machining and excellent fit of all the parts. Absolutely no effort on my part required to get stuff to fit. Everything went in just right, the first time w/o any form of modification needed. Given the variations in production tolerances on 40+ year old cars this is kinda astonishing.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3200_zpsba736e3c.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3197_zps540a994b.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3203_zps5509f18d.jpg


....image limit break....

[Damn True]

....image limit break....

The control arms are just really burly pieces. I regret that I didn't take any pics of them prior to assembly so here are a couple from RT's website:

http://www.ridetech.com/store/images/detailed/0/Camaro_Lower_Shockwave_112840446114c88f7435350a.jp g

The lowers equipped with delerin bushings are built like a bridge abutment and fit perfectly into the spring pockets.

The uppers, also delerin equipped, feature a clever means of adjusting caster. Rather than stacking up a crapload of shims to get to the caster setting you desire, the RT cross shaft is milled out to accept one of three slugs that are centered or offset to the front or rear. This provides for three much smaller adjustment ranges for caster w/o a cludgey stack of shims.

[Note: I do in fact have a crapload of shims there. Seemed like the best place to put them so I didn't lose them before I got the car back on the ground and can do a rough alignment.]

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3293_zps5a4cc4ee.jpg

As you can probably tell, I'm really excited about the shocks. Having Fox practically in my back yard (35min drive) is a nice bonus as well. And again, the fit and finish of the parts was top notch, service from RT before and after the sale has been stellar. I couldn't be happier at this point and I'm really looking forward to developing this solution to work in harmony with the Lateral Dynamics 3-link.

Next up.....My UPS guy is now out on disability.....here's why....

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/9962AD67-B151-4285-8C3C-6C7CFC520550_zpslxkwspm0.jpg

[Ron Sutton]

Surprisingly so.

...the box that held the rotors though...ZOIKS!

Yeah ... those 14" rotors have some ... MASS. :sarcasm_smiley:

But you will have some great braking force & no overheating rotor issues. :)

[Ron Sutton]

I love the Ridetech suspension pieces. Well designed & good quality.

I agree on the quality of the Ridetech shocks. We have had many sets apart, disecting, dyno testing & reworking the curves for track use. I've worked with dozens of shocks brands & am impressed with how well designed & built the Ridetech TA shock is. While there are better performing true racing shocks (for more money) I feel the RT TA is the best value in street/track shocks.

I'm making their triple adjustable shocks standard on my new AutoX-Star front suspensions. Of course we revalve them with a high zero number/mean digressive valving curve for autocross & track use that Ron Myers named "secret sauce".


:cheers:

[Track Junky]

Looking good True. Great write up. Looking forward to seeing this one completed. I see another NorCal track car being added to the list. :thumbsup:

[Damn True]

Well, I won't be taking it off the street, but it will see a good bit of track and auto-x time....if we still have places to auto-x.

[Ron in SoCal]

I'm making their triple adjustable shocks standard on my new AutoX-Star front suspensions. Of course we revalve them with a high zero number/mean digressive valving curve for autocross & track use that Ron Myers named "secret sauce".


:cheers:



:lmao:

I might've named it, but the technically correct name is the "Ron Sutton Secret Sauce"...copyright/patent pending ... :cheers:

[Ron in SoCal]

Well, I won't be taking it off the street, but it will see a good bit of track and auto-x time....if we still have places to auto-x.

Based on what I know True, I'm confident they'll do the job. Ron can give you the details.

[WSSix]

Nice parts and nice work, True. Thanks for the write up.

[rustomatic]

This is such a pretty package. My own was not so bashful, but I did copy it from someone else...



Next up was to figure out a reasonably clean way to close out the area above the tunnel where the upper trailing arm will reside. The part that came with the kit was ok, but I didn't like the area around the fwd upper trailing arm mount. It didn't fit tight enough to the mount to allow the hardware to be outside the doghouse, and it was too narrow to access it if you put it inside.

Noodled around a bunch of ideas, including what James did in cutting a tunnel out of another car (t-bird I think) and I looked at using a Harley FL front fender. Almost did that, but once I cut the rolled edges off the fender it was way too flimsy.

So, what I wound up doing is what you see below. Pretty simple. I just struck a template off the fwd edge of the upper trailing arm mount, transferred that to the end of that 6" wide sheet and put a gentle bend it it to land it on the top of the rear doghouse.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3176_zpse303eee0.jpg

As you can see, the sides aren't symmetrical. Because neither is the tunnel so that made forming the sides a bit troublesome. This presented another, among many opportunities to discover that my wife is much smarter than I am.

So I'm kneeling inside the cabin of the car, whittling away at a sheet of poster board trying to make a template that matches the nutty bunch of contours from the fwd x-member all along the pan/tunnel, and up onto the fwd face of the rear doghouse. Cut-curse-mark-cut-curse-mark-cut-curse-mark.... So Kathy pokes her head into the car and says "why don't you use a piece of wire and bend it to all those contours and then transfer that to the posterboard?"

In less time than I'd expended nibbling away at the paper, I drove to Lowes, bought 8' of solid core copper ground wire (a bit larger dia than coat hanger wire but more pliable, I forget what gauge) bent it, transferred it to paper and it fit pretty close to perfect.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3181_zps71bc7802.jpg

So there is the part tacked in place at the top & bottom, you can see a bit of light peeking in the gap, but it's tiny. A few nudges with a body hammer from beneath closed those up tight. BTW, the gizmo to the right is a "Gorilla Torch", it's made by a company called JOBY. The legs articulate and will wrap around almost anything and the feet are magnetic so it can be placed just about anywhere. Comes in really handy when there isn't enough ambient light to see what you are doing through the auto-darkening shield. Especially when welding under the car as you can focus the beam right where you are trying to weld allowing to to see perfectly before beginning the weld.

Quite a bit of yoga required to weld that part in, but despite that I was able to do some ok work.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3180_zps931f39cd.jpg

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr262/damn_true/Camaro/DSCN3177_zps1a8e81ca.jpg

Adequate given my meager skill set and experience.

So. Up next is front suspension install (v2.0) and assembly of the rear end housing......

[Flash68]

How's it going True? :)