Imagine its World War ll &Your in the cockpit

[speedshopmike]

the F4U corsair was the only WW2 bird outstanding enough to fight in korea as well.:thumbsup:
it is the best piston engined fighter ever, from any country.:willy:
it is also flat out the baddest, coolest lookin' warbird that swings a prop.
there can be no dispute and resistance is futile.:bow:
nonbelievers will be fired upon by robert conrad himself.:wow: :hail:
he's not a fighter pilot but he plays one on tv!
(young guys will not get this, sorry!)

[johnny rockett]

The Planes are Messerschmidts and Spitfires

The Germans have fuel injection and Nos

The Anglos have Superchargers & Carbs

Which plane would you want to be flying?

[Yenkostyle]

Because I know the results of WWII and how deadly the this aircraft was, I would have to say P-51 all the way!

but thats just me...

[Spiffav8]

I'll take a Mk 16 Spitfire. That sucker is one wicked airplane!!! :thumbsup:

[awr68]

neither. I'll take EFI & SC thanks!! :cool:

[tumper93]

Prefer the ME109 or FW190 either one. Not only did they have FI but they were the first to have variable pitch props which helped them also. Also the ME would spank the P51 at higher altitudes. Times have changed so the choice now would have to be a F15 unless I could get the Raptor!! I have German heratige but would always fight for THIS country. THE FEW, THE PROUD, THE MARINES!!!!

[awr68]

Does this need to be moved to the "Off Topic Forum"?

I read his question as being car related...with a twist?

[johnny rockett]

Its still going on.......Fuel injection or a Carb for forced induction?

The German fighter planes were good in a dive with fuel injection and were fast for a moment until they ran out of laughing gas

The Brits and the Americans were Centrifugal super charging with carbs.....spraying the hell out of the engine with water and alcohol.

The P51 Mustang/Spitfires were faster and did not work in a good dive because the carbs flooded until Ms Tilly Shilling came along and fixed it for 10 cents......

This carb blow thru fuel injection /NoS deal is debated everyday on forums.......looks like nothing is new?

[Roadrage David]

Il take the Mersesmitt 262 and spank all your bottoms

[tumper93]

Funny you mention the ME 262, they weren't all that great but since the technology was brand new, if the war had lasted longer there is no telling what would have developed. My dad met the guy that flew the one back that is now in the Smithsonion Air and Space Museum. It was from a captured airfield if memory serves me right. I could spend a day telling of the people that were somebody in WWII that my dad has gotten to talk to and laugh with. Was a great thing growing up.

[Roadrage David]

Funny you mention the ME 262, they weren't all that great but since the technology was brand new, if the war had lasted longer there is no telling what would have developed. My dad met the guy that flew the one back that is now in the Smithsonion Air and Space Museum. It was from a captured airfield if memory serves me right. I could spend a day telling of the people that were somebody in WWII that my dad has gotten to talk to and laugh with. Was a great thing growing up.

It ""was"" the best plain from wwII. bare none it outclased EVERY fighter of the day.infackt this plain made a end to the piston powerd fighter .. the only douwnside was that ""one"" Hitler wanted them to be Bombers ""two"" only in the last months it was convered to be a fighter and bij that time only rookys where flying them. they did sufer from durabilety in the engine departmend from witch is said they lasted only 9 hours, nevertheless the mustangs could only shoot them douwn bij take of and landing ore when teaming up on a ""rooky"" pilot that had 10 hours of flying time on him lureing him in a trap.......

[Yenkostyle]

It nevertheless the mustangs could only shoot them douwn bij take of and landing ore when teaming up on a ""rooky"" pilot that had 10 hours of flying time on him lureing him in a trap.......

Aww not quite true David: The mustang had one big advantage, The Me 262 was less maneuverable than the P-51 and other Allied pilots could catch up to a turning Me 262. This is history taught at Red Flag. Exploiting an aircrafts weakness and or a pilots inexperience is one of the fundamentals of dog fighting. Truthfully there is no apples to apples comparison with any two aircraft all have pros and cons. :thumbsup:

But on the note of Superchargers & Carbs or fuel injection and Nos... I think the answer in what works best is a blending of the two: fuel injection and forced induction. If we are being theoretical then I think the winner would have been the side that chose this...Or perfected the jet first :faint:
again just my 2 cents worth.

[Roadrage David]

This is history taught at Red Flag. what do you meen by that..........and no the mustang was NOT the best fighter in WWII, but it was the most ""sucsesfull"" fighter witch is a diferend thing(but only when they started useing the Rollce royce Merlin spitfire engine). if the 262 had 6 more ore eurlyer months to operate as a fighter. the world would have been a diferend place today.......

[awr68]

David where are you located?

[Roadrage David]

David where are you located?
Im from europe:thumbsup:

[awr68]

Cool!! :cheers:

I moved the thread as it's not car related...but a good topic though!! :thumbsup:

[Yenkostyle]

David I am not trying to say you’re wrong in any respect... You make some real valid points and I am enjoying this discussion. :thumbsup:

Red Flag is an advanced aerial combat training exercise hosted by the U.S. Air Force at Nellis AFB Nevada (Las Vegas). At no point did I say or am i saying the Mustang is the BEST. Most Successful? I think a few F4U Corsair guys from the Pacific might differ on that opinion as they enjoyed a 11:1 kill ratio over the Japanese. LOL

Again not an apples to apples comparison, but the ability of the pilots and experience level is a HUGE factor.

Please don't take this wrong, I am just making a friendly discussion, not trying to say any one opinion is wrong at all. This would be great in a bar over a few pints of beer! :cheers:

[Roadrage David]

David I am not trying to say you’re wrong in any respect... You make some real valid points and I am enjoying this discussion. :thumbsup:

Red Flag is an advanced aerial combat training exercise hosted by the U.S. Air Force at Nellis AFB Nevada (Las Vegas). At no point did I say or am i saying the Mustang is the BEST. Most Successful? I think a few F4U Corsair guys from the Pacific might differ on that opinion as they enjoyed a 11:1 kill ratio over the Japanese. LOL

Again not an apples to apples comparison, but the ability of the pilots and experience level is a HUGE factor.

Please don't take this wrong, I am just making a friendly discussion, not trying to say any one opinion is wrong at all. This would be great in a bar over a few pints of beer! :cheers: No Problem i dig that , i like and love this type of sec ww discusions. im sure the pilots of the corsair had one of if not the best kill ratio , but they never fought inline engines messersmits and focker wulf fighters now did they lol..
the japanese zero and mitsubitsie fighters where mainly target practis plains( turkey shoot) compeard to the german engeneering marvels.. they(japenese) where very low on on calliber guns and had NO armer protection at all....... best radial plain must have been the focker wulf with the p47 thunderbold on sec place with the corsair tird, sins he never fought in the same league as the p47. haveing said that the p47 became a straffing fighter when the mustang took his place.....

[Spiffav8]

This is a great thread and not one I would expect to find on the site. The discussion of which aircraft is the best of WW2 strays from the original question of "The Planes are Messerschmidt's and Spitfires which one would you want to be in the cock pit of". Not flaming the fire here but I would choose my aircraft based on my enemy. Each has there advantages over others to be honest. Take the Zero for example. It was light and very maneuverable, but had no armor and light weight guns. Still it ruled the sky's for awhile.

I still say if I had to go into a fight against a Messerschmidt's I'd want a Mk16 Spitfire. That RR Griffin engine screamed and it had a clipped elliptical wing which is the best for all around performance.

[Roadrage David]

RR merlin engine you meen lol. wel stastistics hase shown that the me109(latest version) was the spitfire,s equal in the dogfights. you know who disirfs the real medal of houner during the battle of britan "" the hawker hurricane"" the spitfire always got the credit but 80% of the plains that fought the germans where the Hurrican. shows you that a less disired airplain, with the rights stuff in the cockpit can do wonders http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWrYogVmPzU

[Spiffav8]

RR merlin engine you meen lol. wel stastistics hase shown that the me109(latest version) was the spitfire,s equal in the dogfights. you know who disirfs the real medal of houner during the battle of britan "" the hawker hurricane"" the spitfire always got the credit but 80% of the plains that fought the germans where the Hurrican. shows you that a less disired airplain, with the rights stuff in the cockpit can do wonders http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWrYogVmPzU

Later versions of the Spitfire had a RR Griffin. Here's a link that tells you about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire#Griffon-engined_variants

[johnny rockett]

I started this thread mainly because of my interest in flying both in cars and planes....be that as it may I could not help but notice on the show " Dogfights" that an American pilot was in trouble as he ran out of ammunition and was being chased by a German 109.....he mentioned that he had to hit the throttle and take the plane to a new power level by adding water/alcohol etc......after researching this thoroughly I notice the approach by the Germans and the Anglos was quite different......now we all know the Germans were pretty smart about building qaulity well engineered equipment...but what I thought was interesting that an supercharger/carb deal was faster for a few moments and the exta power this American Pilot was able to use kept him alive.

The pilot probably did not understand his engine that much and all he knew was he better push the throttle past the saftey gate and that it would add a bunch of power......I think it went from like 18 pounds of boost to 23 pounds and then used the water/alcohol injection to keep it from self destructing etc

We still have the blow thru carb guys and now with EFI here we have that bunch........but the carbs are still plenty fast and there is something to be said for keeping things simple....

You might want to look up Beatrice Shilling.....who helped those spitfires get out of trouble with a simple fix...she evidently was some kind of woman for those times..

[Spiffav8]

You might want to look up Beatrice Shilling.....who helped those spitfires get out of trouble with a simple fix...she evidently was some kind of woman for those times..

Yes she was. Nice to see someone that knows of her. Oddly when the P-51 first came out with the RR Merlin it didn't do very well at high altitudes until a guy (who's name I can never remember) who worked for Packard came up with a simple and easy solution. One of those times when the last person you expected to have the answer fixed things.

[Roadrage David]

Later versions of the Spitfire had a RR Griffin. Here's a link that tells you about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire#Griffon-engined_variants yes very intresting but only 100 where build!...

[tyoneal]

The Planes are Messerschmidts and Spitfires

The Germans have fuel injection and Nos

The Anglos have Superchargers & Carbs

Which plane would you want to be flying?

----------------------------
Definitely the P-38 Lightning!

Ty

[clill]

I got it...

[ccracin]

I got it...

I was wondering when you would pop in! Nice!

[Spiffav8]

I got it...


The thought of driving that car scares me. :_paranoid

[johnny rockett]

The thought crossed my mind.....very fast of course....What one of those engines could do in a car.........MAN I LOVE THAT CAR!!!

Great Job!

Whod a thunk it!

[Fluid Power]

I started this thread mainly because of my interest in flying both in cars and planes....be that as it may I could not help but notice on the show " Dogfights" that an American pilot was in trouble as he ran out of ammunition and was being chased by a German 109.....he mentioned that he had to hit the throttle and take the plane to a new power level by adding water/alcohol etc......after researching this thoroughly I notice the approach by the Germans and the Anglos was quite different......now we all know the Germans were pretty smart about building qaulity well engineered equipment...but what I thought was interesting that an supercharger/carb deal was faster for a few moments and the exta power this American Pilot was able to use kept him alive.

The pilot probably did not understand his engine that much and all he knew was he better push the throttle past the saftey gate and that it would add a bunch of power......I think it went from like 18 pounds of boost to 23 pounds and then used the water/alcohol injection to keep it from self destructing etc

We still have the blow thru carb guys and now with EFI here we have that bunch........but the carbs are still plenty fast and there is something to be said for keeping things simple....

You might want to look up Beatrice Shilling.....who helped those spitfires get out of trouble with a simple fix...she evidently was some kind of woman for those times..

The great Smokey Yunick mentions this in his book. After a pilot used the water/alcohol injection on the plane or 'red lined' it, The engines had to be pulled and overhauled. Smokey talks his way into flying one that had been redlined, to see what would happen. Needless to say he was very impressed!

[johnny rockett]

Not too many comments on the 55......That car is amazing...nothing matches that car in my lifetime and I have had lots of weird stuff that was 2000hp .....but that car is cool....man after my own heart.....would love to see that car.......lots of neat engineering..Does it run?.........how much power? Quater mile times...?.......Any Wings that fold out?

How about some specs?

[clill]

No 1/4 mile times. Was built as a street car. Has power steering, brakes, windows etc. 1650 Cubic inch, supercharged, fuel injected. Piston skirts cut off at bottom ring land to make it rev higher, special cams ground. Supposed to make 3000 hp. Yes it runs but I did have a lean backfire while starting it the other day and shredded a air filter after someone had opened a fuel bleed line that I hadn't noticed. Took two fabricators 5 years full time to build. The silly part is this year at the Pebble Beach Concours De Elegance they have a new 20+ liter class and someone told them about my car. They said by all means send in a entry so I did. You have no idea how out of place this thing will look if it gets accepted.

[clill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84

[Spiffav8]

I stared at that car for an hour during the L-G party. The detail in every area is just amazing! I have the poster hanging in my garage and I catch myself staring at it. :thumbsup:

[deuce_454]

No 1/4 mile times. Was built as a street car. Has power steering, brakes, windows etc. 1650 Cubic inch, supercharged, fuel injected. Piston skirts cut off at bottom ring land to make it rev higher, special cams ground. Supposed to make 3000 hp. Yes it runs but I did have a lean backfire while starting it the other day and shredded a air filter after someone had opened a fuel bleed line that I hadn't noticed. Took two fabricators 5 years full time to build. The silly part is this year at the Pebble Beach Concours De Elegance they have a new 20+ liter class and someone told them about my car. They said by all means send in a entry so I did. You have no idea how out of place this thing will look if it gets accepted.

It will be interesting to see if Jay Lenno doesnt start waving his checkbook arround... :unibrow:

[speedshopmike]

clill, that's the sickest thing i've ever seen - just awesome.:thumbsup:

getting back to planes for a moment, the corsair's also the only prop fighter to shoot down a jet in combat.:bow:
i'd fly one against an ME262 any day; you can blow most of a corsair right off and it'll keep on flying.:cheers:
3 BB's into a 262 will knock it down.
take that, roadragedavid!:D
being serious, the 262 was a revolutionary but flawed aircraft; this is pretty inevitable for a cutting-edge technological device of nearly any sort.
flying qualities aside, if i recall correctly, the 262 needed a full engine overhaul every 9 hours:wow: ; not too practical at any time, and certainly not for war-torn germany near the end.

[tyoneal]

the F4U corsair was the only WW2 bird outstanding enough to fight in korea as well.:thumbsup:
it is the best piston engined fighter ever, from any country.:willy:
it is also flat out the baddest, coolest lookin' warbird that swings a prop.
there can be no dispute and resistance is futile.:bow:
nonbelievers will be fired upon by robert conrad himself.:wow: :hail:
he's not a fighter pilot but he plays one on tv!
(young guys will not get this, sorry!)
==========================

P-51D also flew in Korea until replaced by Jets.

Ty

[speedshopmike]

you're right, but much more limited.
most fo the mustangs stayed in europe due to transportation logistics and lend-lease program witht he limeys.
f4u's flew with various other countries up until approximately 1963; remarkable.

[Spiffav8]

Sorry guys but your both wrong...and kind of right.

The P-51 served in Korea until the Jets came out as did the Corsair.

The Corsair had the longest production run or any piston fighter ever produced. However it didn't see much service with any country after 1969. The Mustang was used into the 80s. I imagine this was largely due to parts and the total number or both aircraft produced.

Not saying one is better than the other. They are both awesome aircraft.

Question on the Corsair: Can anyone tell me 4 advantages to gull wing on the Corsair?


:D

[speedshopmike]

the main reason the wings were gulled is for landing gear height to accomodate the huge prop.
the plane was designed from day 1 as a carrier aircraft but not used as such for quite a while; they started out land-based with the marines; many were crashed early on in ground maneuvers/landings due to pisspoor visibility.
carrier landins are brutal on landing gear; it had to be extremely beefy to pass muster.
the added dihedral of the gull wing improves stability.
chance vought engineers were known as free-thinkers; unconventional solutions to problems were their specialty.
i dont know of any other reasons; would like to though.

[Spiffav8]

the main reason the wings were gulled is for landing gear height to accomodate the huge prop.
the plane was designed from day 1 as a carrier aircraft but not used as such for quite a while; they started out land-based with the marines; many were crashed early on in ground maneuvers/landings due to pisspoor visibility.
carrier landins are brutal on landing gear; it had to be extremely beefy to pass muster.
the added dihedral of the gull wing improves stability.
chance vought engineers were known as free-thinkers; unconventional solutions to problems were their specialty.
i dont know of any other reasons; would like to though.

Your right!

They wanted to get as much power from the engine as possible and put that huge prop on it (13' I think). That made it hard to fit gear struts long enough for prop clearance. Bending the wing allowed for a smaller strut. It also permitted the wing and fuselage to blend better and minimized drag. Indirect advantages where that it allowed better visibility of the ground when flying straight and level and it allowed the wings to fold over the top of the aircraft which was a space saver on the flight deck of a carrier.

The first aircraft where flown by marines who put the hook on it so they could land on carriers and refuel. The landing gear had a bad trait at first and caused the aircraft to bounce on landing. Once they got that worked out they Navy started deploying them on Carriers. The reason for all the wrecks at first was such poor visibility from the cockpit, which was so far aft (this is take off and landing) that and a lot of new pilots.

Who knew all that info I sucked in watching TV over the years would come in handy. LOL Interesting, but useless information. :lol: