What would you rather?

[jst8a5.0]

There is a vendor on this website that claims to be a fab shop, not a paint shop that assembles cars. That is so profound! Being a fabricator, I have to ask myself where I am relevant in the normal car builders plans.

What I seem to run into a lot is this. A guy comes to my shop and asks how much something is going to cost, then tells me my price is too high because the local welding shop can weld it for cheaper. Why am I compared to the local shop when I give them my hourly rate, then when they won't let me do a good job, Troy Trepanier. Should I meet their standards and have other folks like y'all see what I've done to customer's specs and say I do crappy work or, do I stay true to my standards and tell them to get lost if I can't do exemplary work.

So to the question. Would you rather have generally bad welders at a local paint shop skip tack your shaved door handle plates with a MIG then mud them, or find a shop that will TIG weld those plates flush with the door skin requiring a skim coat at worst?

I do realize I am talking to the "Best-of-the-web builders," but please, humor my request. I would very much like insight, and possibly someone play devils advocate. Thanks a bunch.

Oh, thanks Ironworks Speed and Kustom for the insight!

Micah
Concept Fabrication and Custom

[rwhite692]

There are SO many variables when it comes to customers and what they want. From the tone of your post, I think you need to invest more time in listening to and educating each of your potential customers as to the range of options so that they can make informed decisions.

And a lot also depends on what you need to do, in order to run your business. If you only want to serve the type of customers that only want the high-end, zero compromise, cost-be-damned work, then that is great, but there may not be enough customers on that level to keep your business going full time. If there are plenty of customers like that available, then great. But if not, you may need to adjust your offerings to what the market is telling you that it wants/needs. It all depends on what you need to do to keep your plate full, make money, and feed the family.

From your post, it sounds like you are wanting to find a way to bring in the "right" type of customers, and to do that I think it is necessary to be a good listener and a good educator (This is assuming the obvious piece, the ability of your shop to actually do quality work on time and on-budget)...

[jst8a5.0]

Thanks for the insight. I am a new business owner too. I know I am impatient with the growth of my business. I feel that because I have done so much for other shops that I worked at, I should be farther along. I have done work in VERY high end houses, restaurants, autos, etc. See myspace.com/conceptfab for very general past projects.

You read into my post very well, friend. I am 27 years old and I look all of 18. When I try to talk to some of the older guys about modern advancements in head and exhaust technology, they look as though I just told them I was from planet vulcan and am doing the whole spock thing. They insist that the old fuelie or double hump heads with 2 1/4" glasspack exhaust is the best there is. Around here you can see at any show a supercharged or big block car with crush bent 2 1/4" exhaust. Hey, maybe I can sell them on that Mr. Gasket cast iron 2" cut out! LOL!

Anyhow, I am just looking for advice or insight on how to educate customers in a town that is notorious for screwing customers. Thank you very much for your post and look forward to more.

Micah



Can lateral-g be force fed down here in Southern Arizona? How many of us are here? How 'bout decals? Like the banner? Anyhow.

[formula98]

I have to agree with rwhite692. You need to listen to your customers. I would also recommend a Negotiating class as you will learn the term trash on the lawn. What I mean by this is a customer is going to try to get the best deal he can and if that means he is screwing himself (sometimes it is not obvious to them) without knowing it, but feels he has just negotiated the best deal and he is happy. It doesn't mean that he will be happy in the end with what he has negotiated. My statement about trash on the lawn is a negotiating term that means both sides will find trash to throw out. In your case the customer used the welding company down the street. Now the customer is throwing out the trash in hopes you will lower your price because he gave you a reference to someone that was lower. I have known people that have to get the best price ever and have found them to always have problems with the shop or vendor.

Your job as the shop owner is to listen to them and find out what they actually want and sell them on you and your shop. You have to be the one to explain that you use TIG vrs Mig and your benefits. You have to sell yourself. It is not just your business that this takes place in. This is in all facets of business. If you can sell your benefits and do this without showing your frustration you will greatly improve your business. It is hard to be a creative person and do the wonderful job you know how to do and at the same time be the salesman that you have to be to get the job. It might be better to higher someone to handle the selling side and stick to the creative side. I do not mean this in a bad way. Both positions are work and take a totally different mind set. My father has owned a body shop for over 45 years and he is the salesman. He is key to the business success, but he does not do the creative work (anymore). He learned that he was good with the customers and managed his employees to get the desired end result. People are people and they want what you provide, but most cannot afford a Chip Foose or Troy Trepanier. Most can not afford what you desire to do for them so they will hit you with other shop prices hoping to negotiate a better price. You will also get people that can afford the project and they are master negotiators for a living and will do what they can to get the best price.

Listen to your customers! Make a note of what they want, repeat it back to them and explain your benefits. If you show signs that you are frustrated with their comments or it appears you are not listening to them you are loosing their business. You have to sell them and yourself. You must make it a win – win situation. When you do this you will have a satisfied customer and that customer will now sell your business to others.

Another point I would like to make is if you expect to be challenged like this with every customer, you will. If you change your mind set and go into every quote or estimate with a positive approach you will find your business will be much more pleasing. If you look for the sour grapes you will always find them. You sound frustrated in your post try to be positive and look for the positive you’ll enjoy your work and life much more. Every one wants a good deal! You have to sell them on your good deal! Make them feel like a million bucks!

I apologize for the book, and it’s just my 2 cents. Others may have different views of the situation. Use what you can.

[jst8a5.0]

I have a mentor that is of good status. He said the same thing about hiring a businessman to take care of the customers. I sound upset in the posts but in actuality I love having my own business. I feel so much better working late hours for myself than for someone else that won't notice anyway. I can turn up the XM and jam after hours or whenever I want.

The "people" I referred to earlier is one person in particular, not my general clientele. I actually had someone tip me $50 because he was so happy with the stainless grille I made for his skylark. So this haggling is not generally what happens. What bugs me is there is a million friggin retirees around here that have the retirement money coming in so they can give a good hourly rate in the shop in their back yards. What I have to explain to people is that a cheap hourly rate+slow work is worse that a normal hourly rate+fast work.
If I cut the rusty floor pans out of your car and weld in new ones in a week, that's better than 6 months regardless of the cheap rate. That's where I get most of my business, great work with a quick turnaround.

There are 2 things that I combat almost daily. One is that people have been scuu-rewed, and two, 2 years later the car still ain't done! So I usually get "the look" where they size me up. Getting used to that, it's now humorous, I laughed at the last guy who did that! Then until it's done, I get questions as to the durability of the product and so forth. That's all fine and dandy. There is a saying around here. "It's better to be known to do bad work than to not be known at all." Because people will still take their cars to get bad work done!

My question to you guys is do I tell people to get lost if they want "git-r-done" kinda work, or do I take all I can get? I am trying to build a rep here.

I have thought about it and came up with this. I make small decals and put them on the products that I was allowed to do good work on. Plain and simple. So when they see my mark of approval, they know, job well done.
No decal, that's what the customer wanted.

Thanks again for the responses. I am getting the insight and wisdom and encouragement I was looking for.

Micah

[4cefed]

My question to you guys is do I tell people to get lost if they want "git-r-done" kinda work, or do I take all I can get? I am trying to build a rep here.

Micah

Well you need to ask yourself this. What percentage of "git er done" work comes through the door? Is it 50, 60, 70 % ? Can you realistically afford to tell them to get lost? If not, i would suck it up and do the "professional work" you say you do, but for the git er done price to keep the doors open. You have to swallow your pride and do all the work you can, because like you said, you are trying to "build a rep". I am sort of in the same boat as you. Sometimes you have to eat your ass on jobs, but you know what, someone with real money will see that work, and come walkin through your door with a big job and be willing to pay you top dollar for it.

[jst8a5.0]

4cefed, So I should have different prices for different people? This next pic is what I consider great, not my best, but great.

[formula98]

4cefed, So I should have different prices for different people? This next pic is what I consider great, not my best, but great.

No! Sell the job! If you can't make a buck turn it away! If you take the job suck it up and do your best, ALWAYS do your best work! Stop blowing your own horn your talent is only part of it. The other part is to sell it. Learn how to sell and not to complain about the customer that wants the best price! That is business!

[awr68]

Listen to these guys, they all know what they are talking about! :thumbsup:

[G-Body]

Again all great advice!
I to am a business owner and have adopted a few quotes to keepin the back of your mind.
" If im going to be broke i can be well rested broke on my couch"
you do have to swallow some jobs from time to time and do smaller lower paying jobs, that all evently set themselves up for bigger better paying jobs. thats just the truth of business not everyone will be huge profit jobs and not everyone will be an easy sell. and of course customers will will always want the lowest price we all do.
BUTTT by offering a more unique service and final product than your competitors. your one step ahead.
if you love what you do and and live it. the money will follow!
oh one more thing. lol
" quality is remebered long after the price is forgotten"
Good Luck!

[comp-spec]

High quality work is the only way you will get a good name and bring in good work. You'll find yourself doing extra but in time it will come back. Make the customer feel comfortable.
It takes time and try to stay humble... don't butch out work just for the money if want a good name

[Nate_ERC]

I'm just an employee, not an owner, but I do have some insight.

Set a shop rate that you can live with. Don't necessarily shop around and see what the market will bare. I think sometimes people forget when they are just starting that they should want to make a living, not a killing.

I think it's a good idea when you charge t&m to keep a log every day, to show your customer what they paid for. This helps justify your cost, and gives them a little more piece-of-mind.

Then just do what you do, and do it well. Word of mouth can bring you new customers fast. When you're just getting off the ground, take whatever work you can get.

When we first started, we even took jobs fixing farm equipment for some of the locals! But it didn't take long before we did the right jobs for the right customers. Now 4 years later we are SWAMPED.

I think the best way to make more money is to bring in more -of the right- employees. Your shop rate should be static, word will spread fast if you change it. We only increased it enough to cover the increase in our employees' wages.

All of this of course is just my opinion, but let me end it with this. If you treat everyone right, you will eventually be able to pull in the savvy customers. When you have a waiting list that's a year out, you can afford to wait for customers who will pay for the best.

[Nate_ERC]

don't butch out work just for the money if want a good name

I think that you can take work that's "just for the money." But regardless of who the customer is, or what the job is, do them all to the same standard!

[DOOM]

Again all great advice!
I to am a business owner and have adopted a few quotes to keepin the back of your mind.
" If im going to be broke i can be well rested broke on my couch"
you do have to swallow some jobs from time to time and do smaller lower paying jobs, that all evently set themselves up for bigger better paying jobs. thats just the truth of business not everyone will be huge profit jobs and not everyone will be an easy sell. and of course customers will will always want the lowest price we all do.
BUTTT by offering a more unique service and final product than your competitors. your one step ahead.
if you love what you do and and live it. the money will follow!
oh one more thing. lol
" quality is remebered long after the price is forgotten"
Good Luck!
This is the quote of the day right on the money!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup: As a collision shop owner I could'nt say it any better.
The bottom line is many people do'nt understand "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR".. You do'nt get the ROLEX for the TIMEX price.

[jst8a5.0]

WOW, I woke up and checked the tread! There's more good advice and wisdom on this board than Ann Landers' column. Sorry if I came across as tooting my own horn, formula98. I felt I needed to prove myself a little to 4cefed. I am scared to death of being misthought of as little more than a hack. I am no Troy Trepanier, but I can hold my own. What y'all have tought me is that I really need work on the business side of things like, HOW to make people FEEL like they are getting the best deal/job at my shop. That is gonna be a real challenge because I am not as comfy going to all the cruise-ins and shows and talking about MY business as I am behind a welding helmet. I wish this grasshopper could give each of you a handshake at least for all the great advice. Now I'm off to work with much to think about.

Micah
Concept Fab and Custom

[4cefed]

I hope you didnt missunderstand what i meant by that. I wasnt implying you werent as good as you said you were, i was saying that if you are still in the stage of trying to "establish a rep" that you should get all the work you can get, even if it means putting in more than you are getting paid for because it will all come back to you in the end.

[jst8a5.0]

4cefed, thanks for the insight. And I have been doing more than I should for the money I am getting, hence the comment about different prices for different people. Catch 22. I think for now, until I have work 6 months out, eveyone gets the same deal, good, no matter what they ask, just don't tell THEM that! LOL!

Micah