Crate ZZ383

[69camaro638]

:_paranoid
I am very, very close to getting a replacement motor for my 68 Camaro RS, which I want to be of the non LS carbureted variety. On a previous project I had a bad experience with a Beck Racing 406 crate motor. They (Beck) told me that with all the options I chose (AFR aluminum heads, air gap manifold, etc) that the motor should put out 450+ hp. The motor sounded good but for the money it was a turd power wise. I'll bet it wasn't even 375hp. Now that it is time for another crate motor purchase, I am a little hesitant about the power claims. I would like to go with a small block for the benefits (weight/exhaust clearance) but I want big block power (400-450hp). This is why I am leaning towards the ZZ383. But, I know that I can get a BB crate motor and the power WILL be there. Does anyone here have any real experience with this ZZ383. Has anyone actually dyno'd their ZZ383 to confirm the output. It all sounds good but I do not want to get another small block to later find out that for just a little more I could have had a big block with no questions in regards to power.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Marty

[69camaro638]

Are there any ZZ383 owners or validators here? Who has ridden in a car with one installed? I need confirmation, please. :willy:

[XcYZ]

I know several guys with 383's, but none with the GM ZZ383.

How about the ZZ383-500?

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevySmallBlockV8s/383-500.html

[RickWI]

We had a ZZ383 on the dyno and it lasted about 30 seconds. Horrible knock. Looking over that motor, and having dyno'ed lots of them, that wasn't one that was going to spin the pump to 450 though. No way in hell. If you were not happy with an AFR headed motor that one will really suck for you.

A motor that's going to pound out 450 to 500 on the dyno is going to have something like an AFR 195, Brodix Track 1, Dart Pro, or similar head on it. it's also going to have to have a pretty stout roller cam in the 240 to 250 range for duration and compression at least 10:1 if not closer to 10.5 to 11, which will run fine on pump 93 if tuned properly. A package like that in a 3500 to 3600 lb car should get down the quarter in the low 12's with 3.70'ish gearing and a 2500 stall.

That 383 is being rebuilt in the shop and should go on the dyno in the next week or so. I'd peg that motor to maybe hit 350 on my dyno, which is a Stuska with readings corrected to SAE. I would be VERY surpirsed to see the Sallee 383 pump out 500 HP given the short camshaft timing, mismatched Victor intake and hydraulic camshaft. I have done about 48 383 dyno pulls and that one doesn't add up. Maybe the heads really are special though. :willy:

A buddy of mine has a motor pretty similar to that one except the duration on the Comp Roller is in the low 220 range. Same heads but a Performer RPM intake, which works better on a motor like this. Anyway, I can pull him with my WRX 4 banger and the only mods to my motor are exhaust, intake and 2psi increase in boost. I run 13.8 in the quarter with that car, he's in the 14's.

[tndude]

One thing is for sure, if you go BB you'll solve your problem of no power. :P

Yea, I know...I'm a lot of help.....

[69camaro638]

That pegs it! Now my fears of the so-called big powered small blocks are confirmed! My 69 has a 638 big block and the whole seris of conditions that exist to go with it - exhaust clearance (even with a 3.5" oval pipe), starter heat soak (need to heat wrap it) and a few other minor issues (like the valve covers are within 2" of the hood line). The extreme power makes you forget about these issues :hail: :hail: :hail: , but it was not planned as a daily driver, more of a shock and awe build.

I've had LS motors and they are great, but I want this car to have a carb. How about those big inch small blocks I see advertised (like Bill Mitchell). Maybe a 415, 427 or 454? Are these really streetable? I drive my cars on the street only, no track time. I also run power accessories (A/C, steering, brakes). I can add a hydra boost if necessary, but will one of these big inch small blocks actually work in a daily driver type setup?

It seems like my choices are a lower powered (9-10 to 1) 350-383 small block or a low CR 454-502 big block (with all of the tight clearance issues) to get this car into the daily driver range of streetability.

[Streetking]

Here's my take.. I just finished my '69. I originally just wanted a nice cruiser, so I got a ZZ383. I wanted a motor to atleast "sound" like it had some power, to match what the car looked like, but I was dissapointed the first time I heard it. The car seemed to run ok, but I wasn't happy. I sent my car to DSE a few weeks ago to do a front to back check and while it was there, I had them pull the motor and install better valvesprings and a larger GM cam. I got it back last monday, the motor sounded better, ran really good, idled great with the a/c on but it's back at DSE today for Kyle to install a 534ci BB.. I thought about doing a LS6/7 motor but I wanted a "old school" ground pounding big block...

SW
http://www.fototime.com/7E5E07BE3C0BF7C/standard.jpg

[XcYZ]

That's awesome, SW. What kind of numbers does the 534 BBC throw down?

[jonny51]

Right on SW I like that idea of the "old school" motor.I like the LSx's and respect what they do but I like the old BB and SB stuff alot.

[Streetking]

That's awesome, SW. What kind of numbers does the 534 BBC throw down?

710hp@5900
675trq@4900
Callies Crank
Dart Pro 1 aluminum (ported) heads
Dart Intake
10.2 Compression
256/[email protected]
632/632 lift

After smoothing out everything in the engine compartment, the 383 looked small, that's another reason I wanted a big block. I can't wait to get it back!

SW

[XcYZ]

That's just awesome, SW. Does the new motor use an iron block?

[jannes_z-28]

After smoothing out everything in the engine compartment, the 383 looked small, that's another reason I wanted a big block. I can't wait to get it back!

SW


A big block fills the engine compartment really nice. The small block looks tiny in there. A Big block Camaro is never wrong :D

Jan

[Fluid Power]

Great topic, I am in the same boat, and after hearing all the BS about SOM,and stroker motors, I have looked at other sources for engines. Golen Engine Service (http://www.golenengineservice.com) looks to have some nice 383 packages as well, but after reading these posts I wonder about engine selection as well. Anyone have any experience with Golen?

Darren

[spaztikatik]

I have Golen building my 420 right now, he's just wwaiting for me to pick up the heads for it. He's incredibly talented, has top-notch machinery, A+ workers and lets you tour the entire shop as the guys are working, it's really amazing to watch them work. His catalogs are really detailed and very professional, and I haven't heard a bad thing about the man or the beastly units he puts out. Plus it helps he's only 20 miles from me... :D

[Fluid Power]

That is good to hear. I spoke to a worker at Golen and he answered a ton of questions and seemed very professional. Looks like I might have to pull the trigger on this one.

Darren

[Streetking]

That's just awesome, SW. Does the new motor use an iron block?

Yes, it's a iron block, aluminum heads/intake..

SW

[camcojb]

Yes, it's a iron block, aluminum heads/intake..

SW

I like it SW and I totally trust Kyle or anyone he would use to build the engine.

Jody

[Y-TRY]

Hey SW, where did you get those little breathers? I've been wanting something like that and haven't seen 'em.

I know that seems like a silly, academic thing to ask about considering all of the other neat things on the car, but they were the first things I noticed.

[Fluid Power]

SW, I would be interested in talking to you about the 383 if you want to sell it. I sent a PM with contact info.

Thanks!

Darren

[chuntington]

sorry bit of a newbie here. do these engines make a good starting point for a FI motor? what motors do you turbo guys use/can you recomend a decent crate engine that will take resonable boost levels and isn't gona cost an arm and both my legs?

im looking for around 800bhp and would run twin (prob. Banks), EFI and iuntercoolers.

thanks Chris.