Penny hits the track.. well, the parking lot.. VIDEO ADDED!

[Steve1968LS2]

A moment of silence for fallen cones...

Time to start sorting this car out and getting things that are wrong right and tuned.

Went to California Speedway to test out the suspension. The main test was a blast through 420 feet of cones spaced 70 ft apart. It's our standard deal.

Car seemed to have too much roll and there was understeer. Part of this is, I'm sure, the fact that the rear tires are so much larger than the front. We raised the Watts link up a notch and that helped lessen body roll a bit, but to go up another notch I need to move my fuel filter. Nice to have the adjustability.

Also noticed that the inside of my front passengers wheel was very wet with oil as was the front components and the inner fender well was dripping with it. At first I thought it was brake fluid (ie loose line, fitting, etc) but now I think that shock is leaking out oil. I had this same problem before the accident and we thought brakes, but all those brakes have been replaced so that leaves the shock.

I would imaging that 600 miles of loosing oil might mess up how a shock works. I will pull it and check it out.

Anyways.. She still did very good and just barely made it into the 50mph range.. well, ok.. it was 49.9 but that's close enough for me. lol. 50mph is pretty fast and up in the top few cars we've tested.

I think the car has a LOT more in it with some adjustments to lessen body roll and control oversteer. Throttle response was stunning and the steering felt very refined. Also, the T56 shifts like butter (Thanks ATS).

We also did braking tests. The 60-0mph distance was 116.09 feet. This is with manual brakes and R888 tires. Very respectable. There was just a hint of lock up.

I also now have my first "cone rash" .. lol

And since you guys love pics.. here you go:

http://picsorban.com/upload/bptest1.jpg

http://picsorban.com/upload/bptest2.jpg

http://picsorban.com/upload/bptest3.jpg

[awr68]

Very cool!! It's nice to see it being used like that!! :thumbsup:

[Beegs]

OK...you were doing this while I was plowing snow??? LOL

Looks very nice Steve! Nice to see these cars get driven....:thumbsup:

[rwhite692]

Those are great Steve...the first pic, especially!

Glad to see you having fun with it :woot:

[onebad68]

Ok, we all like Pics, but on this occasion, I think we will not be satisfied until we see the video!!!!!! (if there is one) :thumbsup:

[melman109]

Ok, we all like Pics, but on this occasion, I think we will not be satisfied until we see the video!!!!!! (if there is one) :thumbsup:

x2.....Looks Great :thumbsup: :woot:

[Steve1968LS2]

Ok, we all like Pics, but on this occasion, I think we will not be satisfied until we see the video!!!!!! (if there is one) :thumbsup:

Hopefully will have video tomorrow.. shot at ground level :)

I have to go buy a firewire cable so I can xfer it from my new camcorder.

[68protouring454]

nice work steve, you need more sway bar and spring up for sure
jake

[brownz]

Hopefully will have video tomorrow.. shot at ground level :)

I have to go buy a firewire cable so I can xfer it from my new camcorder.
cant wait for the video :( man i love this car and like that fact you use it :thumbsup:

[monza]

Looks like fun!! Thanks for the pics and have fun dialing it in.

A moment of silence for fallen cones... :willy:

[Steve1968LS2]

nice work steve, you need more sway bar and spring up for sure
jake

I have quite a bit of bar already.. 1" solid splined..

And the Springs are 450s.. I'm really thinking it's a shock issue.

In a right hand turn the passengers tire almost lifts.. in a left turn the drivers tire doesn't lift nearly as much. Is this consitent with the front right (pass) side shock being low/out of oil?

I can also adjust instant center by swapping in the the slotted inserts for the upper control arms..

[olds87]

The car look like at home on the track there. :thumbsup: Are you going to have the shock fix by tomorrow in time of taking video?

[XcYZ]

Sounds like it needs more bar in the rear or less spring in the front. I'd definitely find out what's going on with that shock first. You could chase your tail with that problem.

What are your spring rates? Are your sway bar(s) adjustable?




Oops, forgot to say awesome pics, Steve!! Love those shots!

[Steve1968LS2]

Sounds like it needs more bar in the rear or less spring in the front. I'd definitely find out what's going on with that shock first. You could chase your tail with that problem.

What are your spring rates? Are your sway bar(s) adjustable?




Oops, forgot to say awesome pics, Steve!! Love those shots!

No bar in the back.. :)

Less spring in front? I would think more to stop if from leaning over. They are 450s right now. Backs are 210s as I recall. Front bar is a splined 1" solid.

I'm leaning towards shock leak. it leans different one direction compared to the other.

But she still knocked down 50mph.. and that's pretty damn good... Once tuned I can go after the Morrison 'Vette. Although I have little chance of beating Art's skidpad numbers. I did match thier braking though.

[cmraman]

who shot your photos?

[Steve1968LS2]

who shot your photos?

I did while Nick Licata (of Camaro Performers) drove.. I couldn't figure out a way to shoot the pics AND drive the car. lol

Although I did drive the car. :)

[XcYZ]

True, it looks like there is pretty good body roll now. I'd be very interested in seeing what an adustable rear sway bar would do for you... basically try to produce more oversteer from a stiffer rear roll resistance. Can you raise the watts link yet again?

[BC69]

Sweet! Did you end up getting the car coated with that thin sheeting? Does it seem like its holding up to the first of what I assume will be many times of punishment!

Waiting for the vids!

Tim

[Steve1968LS2]

True, it looks like there is pretty good body roll now. I'd be very interested in seeing what an adustable rear sway bar would do for you... basically try to produce more oversteer from a stiffer rear roll resistance. Can you raise the watts link yet again?

Yea, I can raise it three more positions. But I need to slighly change the fitting for my return line from the regulator. It's just barely hits. I was amazed how easy it was to change the watts position.

What would be the effect of one leaking front shock that's low on oil?

Also, I would have to have a bar custom made for the rear since I doubt there's one available off the shelf.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

looks good steve. I was going to say it looked like you dropped a few pounds. LOL

Mark can easily set up a rear bar for that car.

A low shock would be real soft and drop off faster than a full one. You can use more spring pressure too.

[XcYZ]

I would guess the shock would have a much softer initial damping rate in bump and rebound which would make the car roll quicker and feel unsettled. I wonder how much oil has leaked out?

[mazspeed]

Looks good Steve, but I do think you should tighten up the shocks and you do need a rear bar for the street and on long sweepers. I doubt you need springs, but without driving it ll never know, but I think I have the same bar as you and I do have more spring as I have more weight. If you have adjustable shocks, Id stiffen them up by 2 in the front, one in the rear and add a bar for street driving, and for autox leave the bar off. That car looks bad ass though.

[Steve1968LS2]

I would guess the shock would have a much softer initial damping rate in bump and rebound which would make the car roll quicker and feel unsettled. I wonder how much oil has leaked out?

I had the leaking issue before the accident.. I thought it was the caliper.. but all that stuff is new and doesn't seem to be leaking.

I would guess it's been leaking for 500-600 miles... How much oil is even in a shock? There was enough this time (after a 35 mile drive) to be dripping off the inner fender well.

[Rybar]

:hail: :hail: Penny :hail: :hail:

[Alex396ss]

Awesome man!

Great car and great pics!!!

Alex

[Payton King]

tell you what to do. Here is my best guess

I know you are running 450's in the front which should be more than plenty of spring. No oil in the shock will cause it not to have any dampening, which sounds like part of your problem. There is not a ton of oil in a shock, but you know how it is when you spil a little bit of fluid on the floor, it looks like you dumped a whole quart when it spreads. I would also adjust the bounce a couple of clicks.

Too much rear tire is causing the push as much as anything. I am running 350's on the front of mine with the same bar and less back tire. I get a litte oversteer with mine. I am positive that your 3 link is working better than my leafs. Did you try less air pressure in the rear tires? After you get get the shocks checked out, see if you can borrow a different set of rims and tires(not as wide) for the rear and give those a whirl.

A stiffer spring up front would make it push more. By the photos it looks like you are getting good transfer which should help the bite...if it is leaning too much for your taste tune it with sway bars. You are gong to be driving this thing on the road and it you use higher spring rates front and rear to get the lean out of the car it will suck driving it on the road.

I am sure you can tune it for those huge rear tires...it will just be a bit more difficult.

Your car looks great and those pics are outstanding. Your photography has really improved over the years. You should get a job with a magizine. LOL

Oh yea, one more thing. Your numbers are great that is really hauling the mail. Were the best numbers with you or Nick in the car?

[Steve1968LS2]

Your numbers are great that is really hauling the mail. Were the best numbers with you or Nick in the car?

Yea, the mph number was great for the first run out.. happy with that. and the braking was very good.

Best numbers with Nick driving.. going though the cones is an "aquired" tallent and Nick has been our official driver in these tests for years. We also like to use the same two guys for all of our tests to eliminate the driver skill aspect and get fair comparison numbers.

Working on the video today.

[whytry]

Penny looks awesome being used like that.:thumbsup: It's nice to see action pics like that for us that are still in the "build" phase.....

[Steve1968LS2]

Video added...

http://www.lateral-g.net/temp/PennyTest.wmv

Thanks to Scott for hosting :)

50mph.. just a bit over 1mph for me to catch up with our cone testing leader Art Morrison and his wicked 'Vette :unibrow:

[onebad68]

Looks pretty quick!!!!!! The video puts the 50mph into reality.

[Sales@Dutchboys]

Damn! that vid is way better than the pictures!:thumbsup:


Paul

[WicKeD_SS]

OMG!!! thats so sick! love it!

[mazspeed]

Judging from the vid, you don't need no more spring or bar. Looks great Steve.

[Mean 69]

Hey, I think I recognize that car! Who's the brave one laying on his stomach grabbing the video?!!? Great shots!!!

Car looks to rotate pretty well dynamically, the tire scrub noises aren't startling, overall not "too" bad (wish I could have been there, one day late...). But still, the static pictures are pretty revealing, we need to moderate the body roll, and will. I think there's quite a bit more speed in the car without too much work other than easy tuning (shocks, spring rates). More to follow thereafter, too (sta-bars).

Not a bad first try, for a brand new car, with nothing more than an educated guess for the initial setup (first car to be tested with the Lateral D 3-Link and a 21st Century front..). 50 MPH in the 420' slalom seems pretty good, how does that relate to the other cars Primedia has tested so far? And with a dead shock? Outstanding braking numbers too, not too bad for a first outing!

One thing that stands out in the pics, those rear tires are HUGE!!!!! Yeah, so the front to rear balance could be better, but how tough is that!!!?! Screams: I will kick your butt!!!! Bring it.

Thanks, Steve,

Mark

[Steve1968LS2]

Hey, I think I recognize that car! Who's the brave one laying on his stomach grabbing the video?!!? Great shots!!!

Car looks to rotate pretty well dynamically, the tire scrub noises aren't startling, overall not "too" bad (wish I could have been there, one day late...). But still, the static pictures are pretty revealing, we need to moderate the body roll, and will. I think there's quite a bit more speed in the car without too much work other than easy tuning (shocks, spring rates). More to follow thereafter, too (sta-bars).

Not a bad first try, for a brand new car, with nothing more than an educated guess for the initial setup (first car to be tested with the Lateral D 3-Link and a 21st Century front..). 50 MPH in the 420' slalom seems pretty good, how does that relate to the other cars Primedia has tested so far? And with a dead shock? Outstanding braking numbers too, not too bad for a first outing!

One thing that stands out in the pics, those rear tires are HUGE!!!!! Yeah, so the front to rear balance could be better, but how tough is that!!!?! Screams: I will kick your butt!!!! Bring it.

Thanks, Steve,

Mark

lol.. Yea I'm excited to make the necessary changes. In the high res version of the vid you can see a bit more and can pick up the right front tire trying to lift off the pavement and in about the third turn of that vid you can see it "hop". But with only a few hundred miles on her, post accident, I'm pretty happy. We need to address the push and a lot of that was the body rolling and lifting one of the tires. But like you said, it can be adjusted out.

The fastest car ever tested was the Art Morrison 'Vette (will be in the next issue of PHR). It did 51mph. Now 1mph doesn't sound like much but it's huge.

When can I order some Penske double adjustables? lol.. damn, this hobby is expensive.. :_paranoid

[ProdigyCustoms]

Damn that thing is so badd ass. Steve, are those sticky tires? Whats the tread wear?

[Steve1968LS2]

Damn that thing is so badd ass. Steve, are those sticky tires? Whats the tread wear?

They are Toyo R888s.. treadwear of 200. I did a lot of research and they are good for around 12k on the street. They don't heat cycle and they work pretty good in the rain. It's the tire race teams use in the rain and they shave them down for the dry.

Sticky, but not "crazy Hoosier sticky".

[Nick L]

Guys,
I was blown away that Penny got through the 420 slalom in the time and speed it did for the first time out. The car was smooth, predictable and felt great. With a little tweaking on the suspension, it will be freaking wicked.
Like Steve said, there was a point were I could feel the right front wheel coming off the ground.
I thought "air time" was a good thing. Guess not in this case...


Nick L.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Opps, duplicate post

[Steve1968LS2]

Guys,
I was blown away that Penny got through the 420 slalom in the time and speed it did for the first time out. The car was smooth, predictable and felt great. With a little tweaking on the suspension, it will be freaking wicked.
Like Steve said, there was a point were I could feel the right front wheel coming off the ground.
I thought "air time" was a good thing. Guess not in this case...


Nick L.

Hey, toss a welcome to our official "hot shoe" driver.. and editor of Camaro Performers... He's also the only guy at work smart enough to know how to work the radar gun.

Nick has a lot of experience dodging through the cones. lol... it's an aquired talent.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Yeah, seeing that tire in the air is impressive to say the least!

[Nick L]

And a lot of luck...

N

[ProdigyCustoms]

They are Toyo R888s.. treadwear of 200. I did a lot of research and they are good for around 12k on the street. They don't heat cycle and they work pretty good in the rain. It's the tire race teams use in the rain and they shave them down for the dry.

Sticky, but not "crazy Hoosier sticky".

Well, I see us ordering some of those.

[Tom.A]

Very cool Steve and welcome Nick. It must be fun to beat on other peoples toys!:thumbsup:

[monza]

That is awesome! Thanks for the car porn Steve.:cheers:

Having only done small slalom in autocross, is 420' and 70' spacing a slalom standard?

I think I'll be shoveling snow off the walks doing a slalom until spring.

[Nick L]

Very cool Steve and welcome Nick. It must be fun to beat on other peoples toys!:thumbsup:

If I said no, I'd be lying...

N

[Steve1968LS2]

That is awesome! Thanks for the car porn Steve.:cheers:

Having only done small slalom in autocross, is 420' and 70' spacing a slalom standard?

I think I'll be shoveling snow off the walks doing a slalom until spring.

It's common for us. Motor trend does a 600-ft slalom since they test newer cars. You DON'T want to do a 600 foot with a 32 Roadster or a stock Chevelle. WAY too much speed. lol

But 420 is pretty common.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I was trying to find a dealer for them. Do you have someone? Tire Rack does not list them and my supplier is not carrying them either. Wondering how they comare price wise to others.

Also, you meant 100 treadwear, not 200. I suffer from fat finger syndrome to. I have a project we would like to try them on. Was going to run Pilot Sport Cup tires, (80 treadwear) but these are a bit better treadwear, I don't think PS Cups will make it through our test drive process, LOL!

[Lenie]

Steve, I enjoyed that video.:thumbsup:

[tyoneal]

Steve and Mark:

I'm really looking forward to seeing how much speed you can squeeze out of that 3-Link and front Sub-Frame.

Congratulations to you both (And the Driver) for a great performance.

How about about the 600 foot next time???

You could always slow down if you missed a cone?:unibrow:

Anyway, Well Done!

TY

[Steve1968LS2]

I was trying to find a dealer for them. Do you have someone? Tire Rack does not list them and my supplier is not carrying them either. Wondering how they comare price wise to others.

Also, you meant 100 treadwear, not 200. I suffer from fat finger syndrome to. I have a project we would like to try them on. Was going to run Pilot Sport Cup tires, (80 treadwear) but these are a bit better treadwear, I don't think PS Cups will make it through our test drive process, LOL!


The problem with the Pilot Sport Cups is that they need a LOT more heat in them to work. Art Morrison had a hard time getting them hot enough to work great in our tests. I will find out about the dealer thing.

[Payton King]

Nice driving Nick and glad to see you registered over here.

Pictures are great to the point of being art, but a video really tells the story.

I can't wait to see you get it dialed in. It will be fun chasing a bar that was raised pretty high with the 3 G Vette. At least you are not coming to gun fight carring a knife...looks like you are packing heat as well!

How much did your car end up weighing?

[comp-spec]

Cars looking good
Welcome Nick, like to see you driving hard

[MaxHarvard]

Lookin good! :thumbsup:

[Nick L]

Cars looking good
Welcome Nick, like to see you driving hard

Thanks Pete,
I can't wait to beat on my '71.
Hopefully later this month I'll have the engine in and baseline testing done.
Then it's off to your shop for the upgrades.

Nick

[Rybar]

Welcome aboard Nick. :cheers:

Nice driving of Penny. The pics and video are just awesome. :thumbsup:

[67ragtp]

Steve,

WOW! Awesome video!!! :hail: :hail: :hail:

Frank,

Ive emailed these guys in regards to buying the R888s not sure if there prices are good or bad, problem is there isnt anyone selling them at least the big ones such as Discount Tire and Tire Rack. I think there in Penn. http://www.frisbyracetire.com/
Unfortunatly they haven't started manufacturing a lot of sizes in 17" and 19" , so if your running 18s all around your golden. Many other sizes were due out in the first quarter of 08 but hasn't happened yet. Ive been heckling Toyos tech department for a 315 x 17 and a 245x 17 for 4 months now.

Rich

[byebye67]

i agree with what was said earlier by payton king, i am not a suspension guru, but i think it might have too much grip in the back.

[G-Body]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: This car deserves all the praise it gets !

[awr68]

YEAH BUDDY!! (just watched the vid!!) :hail:

[steemin]

great pics Steve..
Its great that you are finally at the point where you are doing the fine tuning.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Scott

[Steve1968LS2]

great pics Steve..
Its great that you are finally at the point where you are doing the fine tuning.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Scott

Yea, I'm busy doing TWO things.. tuning and tracking down squeeks and rattles when I drive. lol

I'm really tempted to send my front wheels to Forgeline to have them made 1-inch wider (to the inside) so I can run wider front tires. I should have done that the first time.. live and learn.

[itsals1]

All I can say is what a incredible car!!!:thumbsup: :hail: :bow: . I've always loved this car but WOW!! Well we know that with "BAD PENNY" beauty is not just skin deep it goes all the way threw. If you ever get bored with PENNY give me a shout. Awesome work Steve, :cheers: Have fun.Travis

[markss28]

That was awesome. PLease post more vids. I would love to see other cars yours doing that. Maybe in 2 weeks Ill have a video of mine.

[rwhite692]

Steve I just now watched the video, I hadn't noticed the link. Great stuff, we need more!! -Rob

[olds87]

Hay Steve,

Did you or some one else did a burn out in Penny? That is pretty cool. :thumbsup:

[Steve1968LS2]

Hay Steve,

Did you or some one else did a burn out in Penny? That is pretty cool. :thumbsup:

I did one with the car all smashed up in back... I that the one you're thinking of?

I should have Scott put it back online... we took it down so the insurance company wouldn't see it (just in case).

[Beegs]

... we took it down so the insurance company wouldn't see it (just in case).

lol :lol:

[XcYZ]

I should have Scott put it back online... we took it down so the insurance company wouldn't see it (just in case).

lol, yep! I still have it, let me know if you want it put back online. :cheers:

[DDY RCKT]

Love it, Steve! Just love it!

[Steve1968LS2]

lol, yep! I still have it, let me know if you want it put back online. :cheers:

Sure.. put it back online :)

[olds87]

I did one with the car all smashed up in back... I that the one you're thinking of?

I should have Scott put it back online... we took it down so the insurance company wouldn't see it (just in case).

Yeah that is the one. here the link: http://www.lateral-g.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=474