Its all about the stance on my Fox Cobra

[MSM69Z28]

I am in the process of building a 93 Cobra which already consists of a minitub with 345/30/18's in the rear, as well as, plans to install a Twin Turbo GT500 5.4L motor. I had previously ran the stang with 275/35/18's on the front, but the backspacing and tire width put the tire at the edge of the wheel well. My new rims I am using have 1/2" more backspacing, but I was already within millimeters of rubbing the struts.

I am considering a conversion to an IFS in order to accomplish a fully adjustable ride height, the widest tires possible, and nicely tucked under the chassis. I like the art morrison IFS MII and CACHASSISWORKS as well. The hub to hub measurement is around 57" and the outside of the current frame rails are about 35".

I am looking for some advice. I have not seen anyone do such a modification on the Fox Mustang although plenty of classis stangs. My plan would be to chop out the current front frame rails (but retain current radiator support) and then weld in the whole new package.

Is there a better approach I should consider?

The whole build is documented at http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92581.0

Thanks,

Michael

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_0101.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_0648.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_0758.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_0527.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_0529.jpg

[XcYZ]

Welcome, Michael. That looks kick ass!! Definitely keep us up to date on the project.

I see you're in Atlanta, and since you're into Mustangs, do you know McBride?


http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_0648.jpg

[wiedemab]

Wow - that's looks great. Can't wait to follow the progress.

[MSM69Z28]

thanks for the positive feedback. i am anxious to see the stance with the original cobra ground effects on and some fresh paint.

sorry XcYZ, don't know mcbride. i moved to atlanta 2 years ago and actually haven't spent much time out with any stang clubs or at the track given this project has been in process since the start of 07. just time to work on it a few weekends a month.

here is one that i was considering made by chris alston's chassis works. its a weld in piece available in several hub to hub lengths. i would weld it in place with some 2x4 frame rails that would replace the current frame rails from the firewall to the radiator support. am i missing something cause it seems very "doable" in my opinion yet i can't find another fox stang that has IFS?

http://www.cachassisworks.com/site_images/PKG_A-ARM-7160_id.jpg

[wiedemab]

The thought of running an Art Morrison IFS in a fox body had crossed my mind a time or two before. The Alston would be a similar setup. I don't see any reason why is can't be made to work. People do it all the time in older unibody Mustangs.

From a structural standpoint, you'll want to make sure that you have braced the front so that it is carrying the loads through the right points. I would think you would want some support bars to the firewall that tie into ???? Are you going to run a cage?

What are you going to run for rear suspension? Custom? Modified Stock?

This project has me really intrigued!

Later

[dave96dcm]

It is very do able, the reason that most people don't do it is because the stock suspension is not that bad, when you compare it to older cars that had crap, those are the cars that everyone replaces everything.

[MSM69Z28]

i do have an 8-point cage i just finished. the rear is an 8.8 with modified internals. it has an auburn posi, 3.73's, 31 spline moser axles with 5 lug and stock cobra disk brake set up. in order to fit the 345/30s, i had to relocate where the lower control arms mounted to the axle tubes. cut off the factory mounts on the axle tubes, and put some custom brackets which were moved in about 4". i'm using tubular / spherical rod end upper and lower controls. the rear frame rails were cut out and re-routed to provide enough room, but they do tie back into the original frame rails in front and behind the rear end. its still basically a stock 4-link set up but now provides more clearance for the steam rollers.

i have everything on my site. here is a link to a vid i posted on my documented build on "theturboforums".

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/videos/videos/CobraRebuild.wmv

thanks,

michael

[MODO Innovations]

Nice project. Keep us up to date.:thumbsup:

[surreyboy]

have you tried griggs suspension? they claim you can use a 315 tire, would save you alot of work since its a bolt in.The stock mustang style suspension work very well with the right parts.


http://www.griggsracing.com/index.php?cPath=4312_4325_2015_3260

[MSM69Z28]

have you tried griggs suspension? they claim you can use a 315 tire, would save you alot of work since its a bolt in.The stock mustang style suspension work very well with the right parts.


http://www.griggsracing.com/index.ph...4325_2015_3260

pic of your suggestion:
http://www.griggsracing.com/images/genWCSLAL.jpg

very interesting. i never saw this before. basically converts to an IFS without chopping the frame or shock towers. the link you provided lists for $550, but doesn't list what is included. I believe this may only be the coilover tower. i assume one would need the complete kit which lists for $2400 (http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4312_4325_2015_3285&products_id=427) :

Tubular K Member
Bump Steer Kit
Aluminum Rack Bushings
MFA 2000 Series Front Control Arms
Urethane Control Arm Bushings
Camber Caster Plates
2.5 x 12 275# Springs
Front Coil-Over Kit
Koni Red Struts
Short Driving Link Set

is that the way you guys read it? Not a bad option which would allow me to avoid chopping out the current frame rails and shock towers. love the idea of the 315s, but gotta believe the steering would be limited as I would think they would rub the frame rails on street applications. could be wrong. i need to call griggs and find out.

thanks for bringing this option to my attention!!

thanks,

michael

[awr68]

Looks good! Keep the pics and updates coming!! :thumbsup:

[Ummgawa]

Where abouts in Atlanta do you live? We have a few here (including myself)

[frankenstang]

The rails are the limiting factor. If it wasn't already too tight for headers on the pass side, you could move them in to clear a wider tire. The Griggs setup looks awesome and I think Agent47 has a kit for the SN95 cars. Not sure if they have a Fox kit yet. Why do you think you need anything wider than a 275 in front anyway. Have you ever driven a car with that wide of a tire on the street? They suck! Well up here they do, not sure if you have perfect roads with no tire channels from trucks and stuff.

[wiedemab]

I looked at the Griggs once upon a time.

Here is the link to the entire front suspension kit.

http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4312_4325_2015_3285&products_id=453

A little pricey for my blood, but nice all the same. You would know for sure that it was designed specifically for the application - that's a plus. It all depends on the trade-off between the labor required to install the Alston or AME front clip. I know the AME is about $2500 for the front IFS kit.

[TonyG]

cool car.. love the mini-tub...

now for the front suspension. UPR has a tubular K member with all the goodies for a great price. this is a way better option than cutting it up. I would have probably never done the mini-tub on a 93 COBRA... but then again, it is not my car. You shouldn't have a problem with the 275/35/18. Try a 265/35/18. that is the size I run on the front of my 96 Cobra. Mine has all the simple stuff: springs, adj. struts and shocks, bump steer kit, steeda X2 balljoints, poly endlinks and sway bar bushings, UPR upper and lower control arms in rear, and Subframe connectors.

also, if you are looking for excellent package deals for the front, check out www.maximummotorsports.com they have real great race proven pieces.

good luck!

[COYBILT]

Love the project your building it really reminds me of a buddys car. Im a GM guy all the way, but im starting to take a liking to those fox bodies. He had the full grigs treatment done to the car and would handle so damn well. Give griggs a call those guys really know what there doing with the fox bodies.

[MSM69Z28]

i'm in the mcdonough area (45 minutes south of downtown off I-75).

I have never run that wide a tire on the front. I can imagine it might be a pain. I was happy with the 275/35/18s on the front (although 315s would look bad ass, in my opinion), but the 275s were already nearly rubbing on the factory strut which didn't even have a coilover set up. I absolutely want to run a coilover set up so I can have that ability to adjust the ride height easily. When I had the 275s on the front before I started the project, they were nearly sticking out the wheel well. Now that the rear are tucked in with a 1/2" of clearance, I don't want the front to stick out noticably farther. The new wheels do have a 1/2" more backspace which I suppose I could add a spacer and make it work same as before, but would rather have them sit under the car with the same clearance as the rear. I wouldn't want to go smaller than the 275. I think it makes a real difference in the stance with the 345s in the rear.

thus i started this thread to consider my options. increasing backspacing combined with a spring over the strut equals about at least 1" of interference.

although its a street car, it will be mainly a weekend driver, some strip, and maybe a few attempts at a little road racing.

if i could do it again, i would have started with a GT and not an original cobra, but it wasnt stock when i got it, and it was clean. no turning back now. :( ohh well. I have seen some 66-70 stangs with the MII upgrade and a 4.6 mod motor. looks tight, but can be done from what I can tell. I am sure my header fabrication skills will surely be tested in that tight of quarters.

thanks,

michael

[JohnnyGMachine]

Hey Michael,

Awesome car, another fox body guy COOL! I've seen the pics of your project a month ago or so possibly on Modularfords.com? Anyways, absolutely sick. I can't wait to see it sittin' hunkered down on all 4 tires. I'm building an '80 Cobra with a 4 valve so anytime I see anything about somebody REALLY hot rodding a fox body I light up like christmas.

By the way I work in Winder, GA and live in Sugar Hill out in Gwinnett county. Would love to come and see the project.

Thanks for sharing,
J

[MSM69Z28]

JohnnyGMachine, i kinda know where your at. I briefly worked up in Buford so I made my way through Gwinnett from time to time. Not that far from me. Maybe an hour, but anywhere you travel in Atlanta takes an hour !!

Your more than welcome to swing down here anytime. Maybe I could even put ya to work while your down here. :lol: My wife is getting sick of holding things in place while I tack em with the mig.

shoot me an email @ [email protected] and we can work out some details. any pics of your ride or build on the web?

Thanks,

michael

[JohnnyGMachine]

Cool, sure would love to come down and help ya weld if it'll get ya outta the dog house! LOL! Thank God for understanding wives! Mine KNOWS I need help with me being a Mustangholic.
I didn't wanna hijack your thread with my stuff especially since I'm STILL drooling over the looks of that 345 tucked in that rear quarter. I'm shooting for a 305s out back and a 255s up front on my 1980 Cobra with 18" diameters. We're just going to section the rear inside factory tub and add 1" to each side. Then again I may come down and look at your car and do the same stinkin' thing anyways. Maybe the next time they have a show at the Summit Racing facility we can swing by and check it out.
Here's my fquick page.
http://www.fquick.com/JohnnyGMachine

Stay in touch, and here's my email address [email protected]

....by the way, I've been known to "doodle", would like to get involved with your project somehow.... www.midniteoctane.com

[steemin]

Subscribing...
That looks great.
The fox platform is ideal for a a Pro-Touring car.
Those big meats look Bad A$$ under that car..
Scott

[novanutcase]

Hey Michael!

I have an '03 GT that I've upgraded the suspension for road racing!

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/novanutcase/PICT0013-2.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/novanutcase/PICT0016-1.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/novanutcase/PICT0004-3.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/novanutcase/MustangRearSuspension.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/novanutcase/PICT0023.jpg

I went with Maximum Motorsports Max Grip Box and I coouldn't be happier! Your project looks great! Good Luck and update often! I'll be following this thread!

John

[TonyG]

There you go... there is the Maximum kit. It is basically the same for the fox chassis; I think the only diference is the width of the rearends and front struts are shorter on the fox cars.

Both Griggs and maximum Motorsports are excellent companies, but you will definately pay more for Griggs. For a weekend warrior; you will be just as happy with MM.

BTW, I don't think I said it, but those tires look great stuffed under the back of the Cobra.

[Sales@Dutchboys]

Welcome to the site :)

Looks like a killer project, and wow those are some meats on the back!:woot:


Paul

[MSM69Z28]

Originally posted by JohnnyGMachine:

....by the way, I've been known to "doodle", would like to get involved with your project somehow.... www.midniteoctane.com

Nicely done website, and you got some serious skills in the design department.

Originally posted by novanutcase:

I went with Maximum Motorsports Max Grip Box and I coouldn't be happier! Your project looks great! Good Luck and update often! I'll be following this thread!

Looks like a very complete kit, but wouldn't I still be in the same boat as far as front tire width and wheel backspacing issues? I am sure it makes for an aggressive package even if you ran smaller front tires when road racing, but i think i would still have clearance issues with my tires and wheels. Can go with any different wheels given I have already paid some $$ to have the rear's widened and tires mounted.

Talked to rep at art morrison, and they have the IFS kit in stock on the shelf... tempting...

Thanks,

Michael

[MSM69Z28]

i was browsing some of the sponsors, when i came across a build at G-force. its a 66 stang, but same process. cut out current shock towers, weld in new cross member, install suspension, and then fab some new sheet metal for the side of the engine bay. looks like a heidts kit.

http://www.gforcedesignconcepts.com/gallery/67Mustang?page=2

anyone know what the length is outside to outside for the frame rails on an early stang? my fox body is 35". just tryin to compare how much more would be involved.

thanks,

michael

[MSM69Z28]

holy smokes. now this is a nice set up. meant for a fox stang. unfortunately, they don't list a price, and i assume that is for a reason. i believe it is in the $9k range.

http://www.jmeenterprises.com/JME%20New%20Suspension.shtml

http://image.mustang50magazine.com/f/mustang-tech-articles/more-new-mustang-parts/8040979+w700+cr1+re0+ar1/jme-sla-front-suspension.jpg

[badmatt]

holy smokes. now this is a nice set up. meant for a fox stang. unfortunately, they don't list a price, and i assume that is for a reason. i believe it is in the $9k range.

http://www.jmeenterprises.com/JME%20New%20Suspension.shtml

http://image.mustang50magazine.com/f/mustang-tech-articles/more-new-mustang-parts/8040979+w700+cr1+re0+ar1/jme-sla-front-suspension.jpg


I heard in that region too 8500-9000

[surreyboy]

one more thing to get for my mustang, oh good:(

[MSM69Z28]

Wish I had made some more progress. Need to order some parts now. Measuring up and trying to still decide between fab'n my own SLA front suspension or cutting it all away and welding in an artmorrison mustang II IFS (http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/40.pdf). Leaning towards SLA setup. Need to do one or the other regardless as the backspacing and front tire width I have chosen will not clear a stock strut (even without a coilover conversion).

In order to prep for either approach, I did fab up a jig with the front suspension at proper cast/camber, ride height, and centered in the fender so I would know where my end point needs to be for the hubs (hub to hub was 59.5" in width).

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_1169.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_1173.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_1174.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_1176.jpg

http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_1178.jpg

Thanks,

Michael

[ubervic]

Agent 47 is supposedly developing a SLA for the fox chassis.

http://www.agentfortyseven.com/

[MSM69Z28]

i actually have seen that before. Looks like a great setup. There is an "in fender" video of that suspension during a road race event on youtube. from what i recall, it was like 3500 which i am sure is worth it if you are in competions, but mine is a fancy street car. willing to spend 2k or a little more, but not 3500 thus i think i will end up fab'n some of it myself using some proven components. let me know if you know otherwise on that cost.

thanks,

michael

[MSM69Z28]

finished front suspension. did decide to convert to an IFS. Updated build.

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92581.125

thanks,

michael

[frankenstang]

MAJOR props dude! Thanks for giving me more ideas to spend money on the car. Is that a 275 on the front?

[MSM69Z28]

yea. 275/35/18s

[wiedemab]

That looks awesome. I've always thought about doing an IFS on a Fox body so that I could tuck the front wheels into the wheel wells better for a lowered ride height without all of the drama of the crap you run into with the strut front.

Great job! Keep up the good work!

[JohnnyGMachine]

WOW! The Cobra is lookin' GOOD Michael! I really need to come and look at that!

J

[ProTouring442]

Michael,

Got any Fox-Body stuff left over?

I sent you a PM... looking for 5-lug stuff, lowering springs, who knows what else.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[GBodyGMachine]

Just checked the thread on TurboForum. Car looks great man. Those tires are the perfect size.
Major Props:hail:

[Shadow X]

i have been watching this car for sometime now an i have to say i am very impressed with what u have done thus far


i will have some questions for you soon for my project i have

[WSSix]

i have been watching this car for sometime now an i have to say i am very impressed with what u have done thus far


i will have some questions for you soon for my project i have


You may want to post your reply on the turbo forums where he's keeping the project updated. You'll have a better chance of getting a response since this thread is 3 years old now. www.theturboforums.com is a great website too so be sure to look around there.