What are the Lower and Upper Limites of PT?

[tyoneal]

Hello:

Is there an, "Official", definition of Pro-Touring, and what are it's limits from one extreme to the other?

I know this is a touchy subject for some, but where does Pro Touring differ from, "Hot Rod", "Street Rod", "Street Fighter", "Street Legal Race Car" etc.?

Does Pro Touring have a minimum amount of enhancements necessary for the term to apply?

Is a factory fresh Corvette Technically also a Pro Touring Car?

Does Pro Touring have an upper limit on performance enhancements?

Does Pro Touring have a Definition limited my Make, Model or year, a foreign or domestic Vehicle?

Can a Pro Touring Car Be Over the Top so much that it becomes something different?

Is there a certain look a Pro Touring Car has to have?

Many of the "Better" Pro Touring Cars are very finished and handsome on the inside, and many have Power window lifts power truck releases along with Many other "Bells and Whistles". Do these Add to the Pro Touring look and Style, Detract from the Pro Touring look and style, or have no impact one way or the other?

What types of materials are usually NOT found in bulk on a Pro Touring car? (Chrome, Billet, Bling)

I am interested in your opinions and thoughts?

Thanks, I look forward to your replies.

Ty O'Neal

[awr68]

Well said Chris!

[COYBILT]

i will jump on this, with my own OPINIONS

are there any rules...... no, more like guidelines.

"if it stops, steers, and accelerates better than stock" (MR STEEVO as i recall)

now as for "classes" or "levels" of a build, typically the more money spent, the higher the "level".....but i also think that the right mix of parts can take a car above and beyond the amount of cubic dollars spent. does a PT car need a 20K int? does a PT car need a 30K paint job? does it need 10K worth of rolling stock? does it need a 4000hp pump gas motor?

answer.... it "needs" whatever the owner thinks it "needs", i personally think that throwing a bunch of money into something that "should" go fast and "handle" is great, i also think that if one spends the money to reach those goals, then they should go out and do it.

PT style is very broad, from die hard streetfighers, to streetrod styled rides...... everything fits. as technology increases, the newest and trendiest may get the spotlite, but it great to see some of the 1st PT cars built over 10 years ago still getting the same attention(a certain red camaro comes to mind)

as with everything, the hobby/style will evolve, some will like it, some wont. when people start putting "rules" on what is and isnt, then its no longer what makes it great...the freedom to express ones creative self and vision.

You couldnt have said it any better.

[chicane]

Pro Touring doesnt really differ from one thing or another... and Chris summed it up nicely.

But... I can say that "Pro Touring" roots grew from the soil and origin of street legal race cars... just as the street fighter took its ques from the very same.

[deuce_454]

amen... i just have one addition to the answer about upper limit.. in my view the one thing a pro-touring car needs to do to qualify is to tour.. or be driven.. there is no such thing as a pro-touring trailer queen, thats just a show car..

[jannes_z-28]

What Pro Touring is?

Well to sum it up: An old car preferably form the Muscle Car era with modern drivetrain, brakes and suspension. Add to that interior comfort with low noise and A/C.

You could also say that PT is the Hot Rodding of today.

The definition is wide, for some just a '72 Camaro with 18" wheels is Pro Touring. I would not agree on that.


Jan

[Ummgawa]

"Cop brakes, cop shocks, a 440 plant and it runs on unleaded premium."

I say that because, when I was younger, I bought a 79 Nova from a cop auction in Atlanta for $210.00. Ugly as a runt over Possum, mind you, but that thing would handle. I had a set of black center Trans Am GTA 16 inch wheels(huge for the day mind you) that I installed, cut the springs, lowered it all the way around. With the cop package (Big brakes, sway bars F/R, fast ratio steering box with lots of coolers for oil,steering, etc.) replacing the 305 with a basic 300 horse 350 and that thing would haul a$$. Heck it even had factory dual exaust and the headers from a camaro/nova fit great. It came with bucket seats and a buttload of cop stuff. I bet I had 500 bucks in that car and I loved it. All my car buddies made fun of it but loved to ride in it and drive it. I smoked a lot of hot rod cars in that thing. I called it my "Birth control" mobile because no female I knew of would ride in it. Shame, because it had a cop back seat that would hold a Caddy engine and turbo 400 that was bolted together. Don't ask how I know. LOL.


That, in my opinion, is the bottom of PT. I sold that car to a cop when I was done driving it (about a week after I hit a deer going 100 mph).

[John S]

What Pro Touring is?

Well to sum it up: An old car preferably form the Muscle Car era with modern drivetrain, brakes and suspension. Add to that interior comfort with low noise and A/C.

You could also say that PT is the Hot Rodding of today.

The definition is wide, for some just a '72 Camaro with 18" wheels is Pro Touring. I would not agree on that.


Jan
Sorry,
Personally I agree with everything thats been posted except this statement. I do not believe that PT should be restricted by definition to "an old car" from the [perceived] "muscle car era".
I believe that my car meets the PT "criteria" and fits into Chris's definition. But by your standards what would you call cars like mine?

[tyoneal]

"Originally Posted by race-rodz
i will jump on this, with my own OPINIONS

are there any rules...... no, more like guidelines.

"if it stops, steers, and accelerates better than stock" (MR STEEVO as i recall)

now as for "classes" or "levels" of a build, typically the more money spent, the higher the "level".....but i also think that the right mix of parts can take a car above and beyond the amount of cubic dollars spent. does a PT car need a 20K int? does a PT car need a 30K paint job? does it need 10K worth of rolling stock? does it need a 4000hp pump gas motor?

answer.... it "needs" whatever the owner thinks it "needs", i personally think that throwing a bunch of money into something that "should" go fast and "handle" is great, i also think that if one spends the money to reach those goals, then they should go out and do it.

PT style is very broad, from die hard streetfighers, to streetrod styled rides...... everything fits. as technology increases, the newest and trendiest may get the spotlite, but it great to see some of the 1st PT cars built over 10 years ago still getting the same attention(a certain red camaro comes to mind)

as with everything, the hobby/style will evolve, some will like it, some wont. when people start putting "rules" on what is and isnt, then its no longer what makes it great...the freedom to express ones creative self and vision.
==============================================
By this definition, has a new Corvette with wider wheels and tires, and a cold air intake, now become a Pro Touring Car?

Ty

[tyoneal]

Pro Touring doesnt really differ from one thing or another... and Chris summed it up nicely.

But... I can say that "Pro Touring" roots grew from the soil and origin of street legal race cars... just as the street fighter took its ques from the very same.
================================================

So a "Street Fighter" and a "Pro Touring" car are basically the same thing?

Is this right?

Could I also infer from this response that a "Pro Touring" car, and a "Street Fighter", are technically:

- Wussified Street Legal Race Cars<---- (I know, it's harsh no offense intended)

- An older Car with Current Sports Car Performance

- an Older Guys Street Legal Race Car, "That has all the extra bells and whistles one would expect on a luxury sports car.

- A Street Legal Race Car, that is understated on the outside and the inside, but has the performance goodies underneath of a Race Car.

Can a "Street Legal Race Car", be a "Pro Touring Car", and visa versa?

The difference being one will be noticed by he people who like and appreciate older cars, and the other is one ha will be noticed by everyone?

Ty

[tyoneal]

What Pro Touring is?

Well to sum it up: An old car preferably form the Muscle Car era with modern drivetrain, brakes and suspension. Add to that interior comfort with low noise and A/C.

You could also say that PT is the Hot Rodding of today.

The definition is wide, for some just a '72 Camaro with 18" wheels is Pro Touring. I would not agree on that.


Jan
=============================================
Jan:

So not really a Street legal Race Car, but a old Car with a Modern Drivetrain, and Modern Conveniences.

So Actual hard core Performance isn't really necessary, right?

Just Clarifying your statement.

Ty

[tyoneal]

To All:

So to get to the heart of things,

"A Pro Touring Car, is one that has been modified to improve on the overall performance of it's original design capabilities. These improvements must Focus specifically in the area of it's Road Holding ability in ALL situations. (i.e. Suspension Upgrades)"

Specific Attributes:

-Better handling agility,

-improved Power output

-increased Braking ability

-and enhanced Steering precision

These four areas of enhancement, (Listed Above) are ALL necessary in one form or another, to be considered a true, "Pro Touring", car.

While these attributes are all necessary for this designation, the degree in which these are accomplished is very broad.

A true "Pro Touring" car can range from Minor/Minimum improvements to an all out Road Racing Car, provided that it is still legal to be driven on Public Streets.

Examples of these improvements include:

Minor Improvements can include (Higher performance tires, shocks, urethane bushings, Cold air intake, performance exhaust etc.)

Major Improvements can include (Complete Racing Suspension and Chassis, sway bars, multi adjustable shocks, Rack and Pinion Steering, AeroDynamic improvements, Power Adders, Roll Cages, Sub frame Connectors, Driver Harnesses, Fire extinguishing systems, etc.)

As long as these four basic qualifications have been met, "Pro Touring", can Technically beused to describe your car style or type.

Year, Make or Model, is Unimportant.

Paint Schemes and Colors are Unimportant.

How someone addresses these four necessary improvements is Unimportant.
==============================================

Does this Sum the Subject up Correctly and Thoroughly?

I look forward to your opinions.

Thanks,

Ty

[chicane]

So a "Street Fighter" and a "Pro Touring" car are basically the same thing?

Is this right?

Well... not exactly.

Although they both get ques from the same place and share the same aspects concerning vehicle performance, a Street Fighter is more of a bare bones, explicitly non bling ride that isnt chalk full of stereo equipment, interrior and other seemingly useless creature comforts. Where-as Pro-Touring is more fully optioned and loaded with all the amenities.

I guess my opinion may be somewhat biased, as I was building cars like we are questioning a decade before the terms "Street Fighter" and "Pro-Touring" were ever coined.

[CraigMorrison]

Hello:

Is there an, "Official", definition of Pro-Touring, and what are it's limits from one extreme to the other?

I know this is a touchy subject for some, but where does Pro Touring differ from, "Hot Rod", "Street Rod", "Street Fighter", "Street Legal Race Car" etc.?

Does Pro Touring have a minimum amount of enhancements necessary for the term to apply?

Is a factory fresh Corvette Technically also a Pro Touring Car?

Does Pro Touring have an upper limit on performance enhancements?

Does Pro Touring have a Definition limited my Make, Model or year, a foreign or domestic Vehicle?

Can a Pro Touring Car Be Over the Top so much that it becomes something different?

Is there a certain look a Pro Touring Car has to have?

Many of the "Better" Pro Touring Cars are very finished and handsome on the inside, and many have Power window lifts power truck releases along with Many other "Bells and Whistles". Do these Add to the Pro Touring look and Style, Detract from the Pro Touring look and style, or have no impact one way or the other?

What types of materials are usually NOT found in bulk on a Pro Touring car? (Chrome, Billet, Bling)

I am interested in your opinions and thoughts?

Thanks, I look forward to your replies.

Ty O'Neal

-No
-Pretty much the same thing- guys tinkering with cars to make them better
-Yes
-No - New Corvette = sports car
-No
-No
-Yes
-Yes
-No impact but can be OTT
-Gold plating

Steve said it best- (to paraphrase) if it stops, steers and performs better than stock it's a pro touring car.

[jannes_z-28]

=============================================
Jan:

So not really a Street legal Race Car, but a old Car with a Modern Drivetrain, and Modern Conveniences.

So Actual hard core Performance isn't really necessary, right?

Just Clarifying your statement.

Ty

Well it depends on how wide this definition should be.

I think a race car is a race car. If it is streetable it is still a race car.

Yes hard core performance but it doesn't necessary means 1200 hp twin turbo as a mandatory requirement.

I still think it means a car from the Muscle Car Era even though a newer car could count as to be built in Pro Touring Style, but that also mean that a lot of Eurotrash and Riceburners could qualify as Pro touring cars.

Over ten years ago I got to think that a '69 Camaro would look great lowered and with 17" inch wheels, low profile tires and big brakes. Like a lot of hot european cars looked then and still does.

I decided that I wanted to build a car like that, it took me a few years before I could make that come true. In 1999, or was it 2000, I bought a copy of Chevy HiPerf because it had a cool looking yellow Camaro in the frontpage. It was Kyle and Staceys car and reading the article I discovered that someone else have had the same thoughts that I had. And they called the style Pro Touring!

Jan

[steemin]

Does it have to be a 69 Camaro to be PT?
J/K and rattling cages.:)
I got started in this little adventure looking for a 1st gen Camaro.:cheers:
Scott

[deuce_454]

Does it have to be a 69 Camaro to be PT?
J/K and rattling cages.:)
I got started in this little adventure looking for a 1st gen Camaro.:cheers:
Scott

i am actually a bigger fan of all the non-camaros, libbys fairlane and many of the early 60íes cars being built here... but it still say that unless you drive it, it´s not a pro-touring car...