SB2 in a street car

[ArisESQ]

Has anyone here run an SB2 motor in a street car? Any experience with this?

[deuce_454]

i was close to buying one from a nascar "chop-shop" think they were called excessive motorparts or somthing, but was advised against it here on this board because most of the heads out there are test heads fron cup teams that are not to their liking, and really is built to match a specific intake and run restrictor..... but if you can find a whole setup on racingjunk you should be good, just be suere to get a set of matching headers!

i have seen some built for pump gas, 410 all aluminum sprint car engines on racing junk that would be a good ticket... but i went with an LS1 and a t70 turbo as it would make comparrable horsepower, in a more streetable way-.. at half the cost..

[Payton King]

The have a 69 convertible that they built in 1999 that runs a SB2 motor. They took it on a couple of power tours.

The way I understand it is the best way to make those motors streetable is to make a stroker motor. Jimmy Johnson's 67 camaro is running an SB2 motor. They are taking a cup motor and lowering the compression and stroking it out to 400+ inches.

www.racingjunk.com is a good site for that kind of stuff. Another good option if you are looking for that style of motor is an 18 degree 9:1 busch motor.

I have a friend that has one for sale complete from oil pan to carb with a 5 stage dry sump. Kinsler individual runner intake and 2 new turbos.

[PTAddict]

One thing to be careful of with these motors is oiling. The expectation was that these heads (SB2 or 18 degree) would be used with dry sumps - if you're using a wet sump, make sure you restrict oil feed to the top end so you don't accumulate oil in the heads over extended high RPM pulls, which will starve the bottom end.

Mark Stielow built an 18 degree motor for his Thrasher project about 7-8 years ago, and as I recall he toasted the bearings at One Lap of America because of the oiling problem.

[Payton King]

has an 18 degree motor as well

[Blown353]

One issue usually associated with the used Cup engines is that the factory engine mount bosses on the driver's side have been milled off for dry-sump pump clearance which makes it a necessity to use motor plates. A friend has bought probably a dozen used SB2's from RCR and they were all this way.

Another issue for street use is that often the stock oil filter provision is gone too since they run dry sump with a remote filter.

[ArisESQ]

Hm. Thats a lot of stuff to consider.

So I have a couple other questions then I guess...Sorry if these are kinda dumb.

Is there anything wrong with doing a dry sump on a street car?

Is the only difference between a small block and an SB2 the design of the heads? Would I be able to buy a standard small block short block and build it with SB2/2.2 heads?

And maybe some of you can give me your own opinion/advice here:

I really just want to be able to build a really stout small block, prefferably N/A, and I guess I just liked the idea of an SB2 motor. The car is not going to be driven on a daily basis, so I dont mind if the motor isn't particulraly street friendly.

Also, I don't really want to do an LSx, and wanted to stick with a small block. Maybe even a fuel injected small block.

So what do you think? Is SB2 the way to go, or should I try and convince myself to do an LS. Thanks!

AG

[Payton King]

Hang out over at www.ls1tech.com for a while.

LS motors are light, make great power. I see where companies are doing a re-sleved LS2 block and a stoker crank and making a 441 cubic inch motor. Some are using the new LSX block (iron) and doing 454 ci.

Very driveable 427 ci LS motors are making 500+ rwhp. New Technology is a good thing!

[deuce_454]

thats funny.. i think payton king is doing it again... i believe he was the one to talk me out of an SB2 last year... seem to remember him telling me that there were many SB2´s running arround in his part of the world.. being nascar country.... and to check out an LS engine... and personally i think it was good advice...

[ArisESQ]

thats funny.. i think payton king is doing it again... i believe he was the one to talk me out of an SB2 last year... seem to remember him telling me that there were many SB2´s running arround in his part of the world.. being nascar country.... and to check out an LS engine... and personally i think it was good advice...


Haha, maybe he is. I still need to do a little more research.

But I'M in LSx country over here! Seems like every decent first gen around is running an LS motor. And the shop I got a lot of my work done SPECIALIZES in LS swaps. Maybe for good reason?

[68sixspeed]

SB2's are made to make HP at high rpm; granted the cam has a lot to do with that too, but even when they had the option of running either motor, the 18 degree motors had a flatter torque curve and were better for short track, sb2's ruled the speedways. Given that the average street motor doesn't spend much time at or above 8000 rpm, there are better head choices for a street motor, although I have to agree that they look REALLY cool under the hood.

[Van B]

I was talked out of it by a Busch Series engine builder. He developed the LS2 based spec engine for Busch East and Busch West. That is what is in my Camaro. Cheaper, better streetability, plus it was new, not some rebuilt race stuff. He had both to sell me, he just believes in the LSx potential.

http://www.wegnerautomotive2.com/

[deuce_454]

wow thats my kind fo shop, prety women and race engines in plain view and last but not least... beer on tap!


http://www.wegnerautomotive2.com/GRAPHICS/nye_engine5_x.jpg

[PTAddict]

I was talked out of it by a Busch Series engine builder. He developed the LS2 based spec engine for Busch East and Busch West. That is what is in my Camaro. Cheaper, better streetability, plus it was new, not some rebuilt race stuff. He had both to sell me, he just believes in the LSx potential.

[/URL]

From a power production standpoint, some of the aftermarket LS1/LS2/LS6 style heads are flowing up to 340 CFM on the intake, and the LS7 style are approaching 400 CFM. Purely from a performance standpoint, the 18 degree or SB2 heads are not going to have much more potential if any. Then add in the requirements for special rockers and offset solid roller lifters ...

Now, the sprint car heads from Brodix, Dart, or All-Pro are probably the best flowing small block heads of all. If you were going to build a 450+ CID, 8000 RPM motor, those heads with a Kinsler or similar individual runner FI would make a truly exotic setup.

[ArisESQ]

Now, the sprint car heads from Brodix, Dart, or All-Pro are probably the best flowing small block heads of all. If you were going to build a 450+ CID, 8000 RPM motor, those heads with a Kinsler or similar individual runner FI would make a truly exotic setup.


That sounds pretty interesting. Do you have any more info on them?

[68sixspeed]

Go on Brodix's website or look up M2 cnc'd heads (also sold by Brodix, but they do other mfg's stuff too.); some of the more radical non-production based stuff can flow 400cfm+.

VanB has a good point on the Busch LS based, but there are some oiling issues on the bottom end-- lots of lost motors at Louden this year from rods/cranks- a lot of people were blaming the spec required Wegner oil pan. They do make good HP in race form though, I believe that are talking 650ish with the 390cfm carb.

-Dan

[deuce_454]

hmmm we are getting in to teritory where i would opt for an aluminum big block with Big Chief heads instead... http://www.ultrastreet.net/632_1000_bd.asp with the price of a new, 8000 rpm kinsler injected large SBC you are almost into the same money....


personally id opt for the 582 with the aluminum block option http://www.ultrastreet.net/582_classic.asp that is 14500 bucksand it churns out 745 Hp on 92octane ánd comes with a 2 year warranty

[ArisESQ]

hmmm we are getting in to teritory where i would opt for an aluminum big block with Big Chief heads instead... http://www.ultrastreet.net/632_1000_bd.asp with the price of a new, 8000 rpm kinsler injected large SBC you are almost into the same money....


personally id opt for the 582 with the aluminum block option http://www.ultrastreet.net/582_classic.asp that is 14500 bucksand it churns out 745 Hp on 92octane ánd comes with a 2 year warranty


The big blocks that i've been in aren't really the most driveable cars, generally require a lot more maintanence than a small block equivalent, and i assume are a lot heavier... so i think i'm probably going to stray away from one of those.

and i dont really plan on buying a full on, runs out of the box, crate motor. i would prefer building the motor up slowly myself, as i DO have a budget. but either way, i'm willing to pay money for something thats worth it... just not all at once :D

that being said, that shafiroff big block is seriously impressive.

[deuce_454]

I know exactly what you are talking about, i went with the LS1 for exactly that same reason.... here is a pic of what i ended up with... 2002 LS1, and a masterpower turbo from schwartz racing polished by yours truely should reach 500 rwhp as is... and is capable of double that with a forged rotating assembly and some ported heads.. and lotsa boost :D

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s295/deuce_454/IMG_0551.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s295/deuce_454/IMG_0557.jpg

[ArisESQ]

that is pretty flippin sweet.

[68sixspeed]

Personally, if you are still saving the $, don't buy a thing until you have all the $; technology gets better every year. There is nothing worse than spending good bucks on a set of heads, only to have them be old news by the time you use them. It would be like having spent $6K on a new ls1 crate motor 5 years ago, and yet to have used it- you could get a LS2 or even potentially LS3 for the same $ now. Just my $.02

[ArisESQ]

Personally, if you are still saving the $, don't buy a thing until you have all the $; technology gets better every year. There is nothing worse than spending good bucks on a set of heads, only to have them be old news by the time you use them. It would be like having spent $6K on a new ls1 crate motor 5 years ago, and yet to have used it- you could get a LS2 or even potentially LS3 for the same $ now. Just my $.02


Yea, I guess I understand what your saying. I just like building things as I go though. Maybe there will be some new technology a year from now, but hp is hp, and I'll be happy to build/own something as long as it works well.