Introducing "TRACKDAY", 1968 Camaro [Archive]

sik68

08-13-2007, 11:28 PM

At 23 years old, I am no doubt, a young gun in the lateral-g community. I know some of you have been wrenching on cars for twice as long as I have been alive! So I know, I'm a boy in a man's hobby. But, I'm too busy working on my car to care! I'm cutting my teeth on my first teardown and buildup.

I've been postponing to introduce my project for a while now; I wanted to make sure I had the guts to take the plunge into the money-pit that is pro-touring. However, If you're looking for a high-dollar, frame-off restification, you've come to the wrong place. Besides not having the money, I really don't have the patience or the desire for a 100 point showtouring car. I'm a battle-scar, rock chip kinda guy, and I hope my car will reflect that. I think the name TRACKDAY suits it well, as I truly intend to rip this car up on the track.

As for the buildup, I hope I have the patience to take things slow and not take shortcuts. Yet, I also hope I have the self-control not to get caught up in the hype of having latest and greatest. I also have a "No Bling" rule (although I think I'll make an exception on those carbon fiber spoilers....mmm).

I'm currently installing the following:
Global West Solid body / subframe bushings
Full Global West Suspension, Hotchkis front swaybar.
ATS tall spindles.

Tyler at ATS has been great getting all this stuff to me

Up next:
C5 brake kit from kore3

Well, stay tuned as I slowly and steadily make this car worthy of its namesake:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/IMG_0810.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/IMG_0487-1.jpg

Thanks!
Steven

P.S. I've been taking plenty of hi-res pictures of my build, so if anyone ever needs any reference pictures, don't hesitate to ask me. Just don't ask me how to put a car together, I suck at it!

Alex396ss

08-14-2007, 01:05 AM

Good luck man, feels like I´m in the same position, even though I like a little show.....:unibrow:

Alex

Roger Poirier

08-14-2007, 02:06 AM

Fantastic plate... :thumbsup:

Beegs

08-14-2007, 04:58 AM

I love the plate!

Something to consider: You need to be very careful how you use concrete blocks to support heavy objects such as vehicles. The block located at driver side rear is offering little strength in its current position. If you suddenly loaded that block it would crumble instantly. I like to stay away from using that type of block but if it is all you have do the following:
Make sure the block is laying flat (picture it the way it would be installed in an actual wall) take scrap 2x8 or 2x10 whatever you have and lay it on top. This will help distribute the load over the surface. Also make sure the bottom of the block is making contact along its entire face. No pressure points!

Sorry for the lengthy post, just want you to be safe! When I need to block up, I have a bunch of 6x6 leftover PT stock in various lengths. They will even hold up my 20+ thousand pound Mack! (with a piece of C channel across the top to distribute the weight)

Good luck with your project and make sure you get it done before you have kids!:yes:

sik68

08-14-2007, 06:44 AM

Garage Dog 65

08-14-2007, 06:59 AM

I know some of you have been wrenching on cars for twice as long as I have been alive!!

Oh man, that hurt ... :lol:

Welcome Steven ! Lots of great guys and gals here that will be a great resource for your build. My first car in high school was a 69 Dart 340/4spd - spray can gray primer - NEVER painted it and drove it like I stole it every day. I understand where you're coming from (you youngster... :) )

Perfect name for your car ! Looking forward to your updates.

Jim (46 years old - old guy)

L8ONBRAKE

08-14-2007, 08:27 AM

The reincarnation of camaroboy69!!! :lol: :thumbsup:

BTW sounds like a great plan, keep us updated

novanutcase

08-14-2007, 09:43 AM

I wish I was 23............:(

John

70TWO NOVA

08-14-2007, 10:13 AM

awsome man, im 21 and also have a 68 camaro project. Keep us updated and show the "seasoned " guys around here what us younger guys can do!! :thumbsup:

rich-allen

08-14-2007, 11:42 AM

I wish I was 23............:(

John

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Not me brother, I was a frickin idiot when I was that age.
I don't think you really start living until you hit 40.

Rich

Beegs

08-14-2007, 01:34 PM

Thanks Beegs for the heads-up. The cinderblock is actually only supporting the axle (there's no spring on the car). There's a jackstand right next to it that's holding up the car :)

:thumbsup:

sik68

06-02-2008, 04:22 PM

Alright I have updates!

I completely gutted the front and rear suspension and braking system. Replacing with stuff from Global West and Kore3. Pardon the overwhelming amount of dust and grime that these photos show. I don't have a garage, but I make due.

Here's a shot of everything removed.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0485.jpg

When I have time I will weigh these components for other's reference.

Parts have been trickeling in...here's a shot of the upper and lower control arms, front springs, rear Bilstein shocks, and (stock height) solid body mounts:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0709.jpg

Here's a shot of the rear-most body bushing being installed into the car. It really freaked me out when I was detaching the subframe from the body.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0723.jpg

And back together (Black widow got WD-40 to the face when I realized she was there):

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0726.jpg

More to come...

awr68

06-02-2008, 05:11 PM

Thanks for the update! I remember the first time I installed my solid mounts...yeah it can be a little un-nerving at times!!

Lessk

06-02-2008, 05:59 PM

Good luck young friend!

I'm 25 and I've had my car since I was 20. I'd have done a lot more to it by now but I got married.

What can I say? She's perfect! :D

sik68

06-02-2008, 08:08 PM

Awesome guys! Thanks for the support! Here's another update...

sik68

06-02-2008, 08:09 PM

Tobin @ Kore3 has been awesome throughout this whole process. He informed me that the brake rotor hub requires that the axle flange be <=6". The flange of the original axles is much larger, requiring a turn-down or a replacment. I chose the latter, going with Superior Axles from Summit (SAG-EV10-1). The flange is 5.8" in diameter, so these axles work. They accept the standard 7/16" press in studs (included in box), as well as 1/2"-20 screw-studs (not included). I chose Moser 2" studs from Summit (MSR-8002). Here's a shot of the studs on the axle, along side the original axle.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3164.jpg

I have the pictures of the axle overhaul on a different computer, so I will post a complete write-up on that soon.

Here's a picture of the driver's side axle installed, with the caliper bracket from Kore3. This bracket may look atypical to those who have seen the C5 brackets... that's because this bracket also accepts the in-rotor parking brake setup. Notice how the Global West 5 leaf springs aren't even captured by the monoleaf spring perches and a 1/2" lowering block? That's why I am going to order the DSE multileaf conversion kit.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3170.jpg

Staggered Shocks: Notice the bracket is oriented at 9 o'clock. This is the correct position to avoid the shock on the driver's side, which goes behind the axle. On the passenger side of the vehicle, the bracket is also installed at 9 o'clock, to avoid the shock which goes in front of the axle. You must use 2 Left-Hand calipers with these staggered-shock cars so that the brakes can be bled properly.

I love tools. Installing the rear axles gave me an excuse to purchase a dial indicator. Here I am checking the runout

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3166.jpg

Results:
Driver's side: .003" total
Passenger side: .002" total

I'll do this once again with the rotors on the car...I will expect to see those runout numbers roughly multiplied by 2.

sik68

06-02-2008, 08:09 PM

I am converting over to power steering with Unisteer's Gen II kit and the ATS/Lee 670 box. So I needed a solution for my pulley setup.

Here's my current setup, short water pump driving only the alternator
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0395.jpg

(BTW the Ron Davis Radiator you see is awesome)

What I needed was a alternator bracket that met several criteria:

1. Run everything from 1 belt
2. Keep the alternator on the driver side
3. NOT a header mount bracket, which I despise
4. Give enough room to allow clearance for the Gen II pump
5. Allow enough "bite" on the PS pump pulley

After much research, I was left with very few options. As I mentioned in my first post, I don't really go for the "bling parts." But I have to admit that I am pretty darn impressed with this alternator bracket I bought. It's a March product that I bought from Summit (MCH-20131). $160 dollars for a bracket isn't exactly my idea of a deal, but I really got what I paid for:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3157_2.jpg

Note the longest bolt in the picture above, used to bolt the alternator up to the bracket. This is the 1/4" bolt that was included in the box, But it is is completely wrong...It should be 3/8" with an allen wrench head (Hex cap) just like every other bolt you see. I don't know how it got in there, but I had to run down to the hardware store to get the correct one.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3158_2.jpg

Also, the shortest bolt you see wasn't correct for my application either! This is the bolt that is supposed to thread into the top hole of the alternator, holding the piece that the turnbuckle mounts to. The thread on the bolt is coarse, while the thread of the alternator is fine (or vice versa, I can't recall). I just simply reused the bolt I already had. These are the type of hangups that I have learned to accept very early in this project.

Here it is on the car:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3161_2.jpg

As you can see, it makes use of the 3/8" drilled accesory holes in the Pro-Topline heads, and provides awesome adjustability with the turnbuckle. It took several hours to install this bracket because I wanted to be sure that the bolts wouldn't bottom out when threading into the aluminum head. I actually bought a bolt that was a smidge shorter and touched it with a grinder, just to be sure. You can see the replacements (in black) HCS that I used to properly install the bracket and alternator. Mismatched bolts build character!

Whether it meets criteria 4 & 5 remains to be seen...I sure hope so.

sik68

06-11-2008, 11:28 PM

Quick Update:

I spent some time preparing my C5 brake kit from Kore3. Here's a mock-up shot of the caliper on the ATS tall spindle:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0163.jpg

I wanted the caliper abutment brackets to be a bit darker than stock, so I sprayed them with Dupont hi-temperature paint in matte black. The difference is subtle but it makes the red caliper "pop" quite a bit more. As shipped on left, painted on right:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0174.jpg

Just for kicks, here is a mock-up I did a while back showing the rear abutment bracket:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0184.jpg

Steve Firebird

06-12-2008, 04:14 AM

Good to see a few young guys really stepping up on these car builds. Looks like you have a good start on a wicked Camaro. I will be watching this thread. Steve

GHOSTDANCER

06-12-2008, 09:12 AM

Looking good :thumbsup:

sik68

06-12-2008, 03:01 PM

Thanks for the ongoing support!

As promised earlier, here's my write-up of my axle replacement. For 99% of you, swapping axles is a "been there, done that" excercise; but I'm writing it up to share my experiences for those that don't know what's up (like me when I unbolted the diff cover). I didn't get pictures of every step because I didn't feel like washing my hands so often to touch the camera. Luckily, my dad was standing by once in a while to get some shots.

First thing, get a Chilton's nice and greasy:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0177.jpg

Next, grab a hold of the driveshaft and spin it until you see a bolt head such as this. This is the set pin which you will need to remove. Shown here:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0176.jpg

Just 1 more step before the axles can be removed. Now that the pin is out, there is a steel "dowel" directly in the center of the differential that keeps the axles separate. Rotate the axle to a convienent position and then simply reach in there and push it in either direction. No need to remove it entirely...just far enough so the axles can slide inboard. Here's a pic:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0185.jpg

After that, simply push the axles inboard to release the c-clips.

Ta-da!
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0183.jpg

Use a slide hammer (I rented from autozone) and the bearing puller attachment to get the seal and bearing out. Pay attention to which way the seal was facing, so that you install the new seal the same way (just in case).

It has been recommended to me over and over that you should always change out the bearings and seals whenever the axle is replaced. To install the new ones, you're going to have to get used to the painful feeling of beating on your car. My tension level skyrocketed during this part of the project, as I am a believer that a hammer is a substitution for using the correct tool. Anyways, I used a hammer and a socket to slowly tap around the outer race of the bearing until it "felt" seated against the lip of the axle housing. Then I did the same for the seal. I don't even like to talk about it that much, because the whole process just gave me the chills. "Just hammer until it feels right;" that's no way to build a car.

Anyways, it worked. NOTE: many have said that after you push the dowel out of position, don't rotate the assembly, as the differential components can fall out. If you need to change positions, push the pin back first.

To reinstall the axles, just do everything in reverse.

Update soon on the installation of the Gen 2 power steering pump from Unisteer.

will69camaro

06-22-2008, 07:02 AM

Congrats on the work so far man. I like you am another young guy but I have yet to take the plunge into the pro-touring build and I've had my car for 11 years on 7/10. It has a fuel injected motor but I feel yours is MUCH further along than mine.

Congrats on the build and I will be following it. Glad to have another "young" enthusiast so we can try and help keep this hobby alive!

William

sik68

06-22-2008, 08:12 PM

sik68

06-22-2008, 08:13 PM

This past weekend I finally finished the installation of the Unisteer Power Steering Pump from Summit (UIS-8060190). I actually believe my installation is the 1st of its kind...you'll see why if you follow along.

First, here is the picture of the pump and reservoir right out of the box (after I used the green side of a sponge to dull the pulley and bracket surfaces, haha):
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0219.jpg

Here is the backside. I have labeled the tapped holes of the pump to more easily explain my "custom" installation.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0221.jpg
Note that the mounting bracket was originally bolted to in the lower position, while the turnbuckle was bolted in the upper position (turnbuckle more evident in 1st picture). This configuration DOES NOT FIT my setup due to the March alternator bracket interfering with the reservoir. When I realized this, I spent about 2 hours trying to figure out what to do. Then it dawned on me that I could move the pump bracket to the other positions on the pump.

"MID" doesn't work because the reservoir moves out too wide and interferes with the A-Arm bolt. However, Moving the bracket to UPPER fits the bill. Here is what I mean:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0222.jpg

So this is the packaging result on the car:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0225.jpg
I actually think this configuration looks better than the original intended configuration by Unisteer. The setup is more compact, and it it sits lower, which makes the pump pulley almost the same height as the crank pulley. This provides a better wrap angle around the pulley than if the bracket was attached to LOWER.

The problem was not solved yet though, as I still needed a way to hold the pump rigid. My solution was to run a turnbuckle on the backside of the pump, from LOWER all the way up to the bolt that runs between my alternator and the alternator bracket. Here is what I mean:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3340.jpg

sik68

06-22-2008, 08:14 PM

I used the existing turnbuckle eyelet ends that came with the pump. However, I ordered the center section from www.midwestcontrol.com It is a 9" long aluminum hex bar with the correct tapping 3/8-24 (PN AHT6-9.00) Here is the upper end of the turnbuckle on the backside of the alternator bracket:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3342.jpg

That center section was a $5 part with $15 dollars shipping, haha. But when it is all said and done, I think my accessory drive system looks pretty awesome (note the turnbuckle behind the pump and alternator):
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3343.jpg

A better view of the setup, although the pic was taken before I installed the pump turnbuckle:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0230.jpg

Hope that gives you some insight into another drive solution for a short water pump setup!

Next update will either be brake system plumbing of my C5 kit, or installation of the ATS670 steering box that I just ordered from Prodigy Customs / GP Superstore.

will69camaro

06-22-2008, 09:14 PM

GMracer

06-23-2008, 01:48 PM

awesome project, love the detail and the amount of pictures along the way

tony byram

06-23-2008, 02:03 PM

Great job, and an excellent idea! Its good to see the young men and women take an interest in G-machines,musclecars and hotrods. Theres probably still a few old timers that havent been in a 10-12 bolt rear end! The pictures are good and the explanation is clear and accurate.:bow: Kudos and if it helps even one person... good for you! You just helped someone out. Tony:thumbsup:

mdprovee

06-25-2008, 06:58 AM

Nice thinking and problem solving. Keep it up.

sik68

06-25-2008, 09:00 AM

Thanks for reminding me to update my info. I graduated BSME from Texas A&M in May and now working full time in Houston. Car should hopefully get some attention soon!

Keep us updated! And ETA on this project? What is your goal?

William

Oh man, I don't know if my project will ever be "done"...but I can give you a pretty good idea from a copy/paste of the spreadsheet I have:

Phase 1 Items
Category
Suspension
Brakes
Steering
Wheels/Tires
Rear Axle

Phase 2 Items
Category
Seats
Transmission
EFI
Fuel System

Phase 3 Items
Category
Body/Paint
Roll Cage
Engine

Phase 1 is almost complete (August is my goal), and will finally be drivable after a year and a half in "hovercraft" mode.

Phase 2 will probably be drawn out throughout '09

Phase 3 is TBD :)

will69camaro

06-25-2008, 10:41 PM

Sounds good. I wish I could set a project date/schedule for mine but nothing can be set in stone at the moment. I'm hoping by the first of the year I can put together a MS Project baseline for my car so I have a goal!

Keep us updated, i'm really enjoying the thread!

William

sik68

07-15-2008, 10:12 AM

I have an update!

The first thing I did last night was finally bolt the rear axle to the Global West L2 rear springs. To do this properly on my monoleaf rear axle, I used the Detroit Speed monoleaf to multileaf conversion kit. Basically, it uses a pair of 1" square bar rectangles to act as spring perch extensions. Here is a picture:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3387.jpg

The conversion kit comes with 7/16" U bolts, but I had already bought 1/2" ones. I just simply drilled out aluminum blocks to accept the larger diameter. Speaking of the blocks, the 1" dimension of the blocks is a perfect fit. I put 45lbf*ft on the U bolts, and that just leaves the slightest clearance in the blocks: ie, all the compressive force is going into the springs. In the picture you can also see the Detroit Speed shock mount plates...

sik68

07-15-2008, 10:13 AM

Plumbing a braking system is not fun...but I was able to finish it in a matter of 2 days. It's not pretty, but eventually I just sighed and said, "good enough." I just hope it doesn't leak...

Wilwood, Kore3, Inline Tube

Here are some pics, hopefully the installation doesn't come across as too hacky (although the hose clamps on the axle don't help.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3392.jpg
Don't worry, that tube doesn't drop in the way of the steering box shaft...it's just the angle of the picture.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3388.jpg

Yet another mockup of the rear caliper:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3403.jpg

Next update looks like it will be the installation of my ATS 670 steering box and Detroit Speed steering linkage.

Thanks!
Steven

sik68

08-03-2008, 11:01 PM

Latest update!

I had debated for a while whether to go with a nice set of slotted rotors (DBA 4000) for my C5 kit, or to run a set of inexpensive rotors. Some guys over at corvetteforum.com swear by high-end rotors...yet others insist that if you're running trackdays, the stock replacements can take the punishment. Well, I ended up going the cheaper route this time. I purchased Napa "Ultra Premium" rotors (86700, 86701, 86702, 86703). Here are a couple mock-up shots for the front and rear:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3452.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3461.jpg

The hats of the front rotors came painted...nice. But the rears werent. So I rattled on some high temperature paint. Here's my taping of the approximate swept portion; I'm trusting that the pads will take off any excess:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3423.jpg

Of course, it's not a car weekend without encountering some problems. I ran into an interference problem when I was mocking the passenger side rear rotor and the abutment bracket. the inboard face of the rotor scrubbed against the abutment bracket. Here's what I mean:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3443.jpg

After many measurements with the calipers left and right, I determined that the welded flange of my axle housing is inboard by 0.07" compared with the driver side (which was fine rotor/abutment wise). After 3 hours, I had whipped up a shim to go behind the rotor:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3441.jpg

continued...

sik68

08-03-2008, 11:03 PM

I cut it from 16 ga. steel (0.0625"). I confirmed with a dial indicator on the rotor that runout is still ok. The result is this:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3448.jpg

After my mono/multileaf fisaso, I finally got my Bilstein shocks installed in the rear...sure was easy:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3434.jpg

On Sunday, my girlfriend came up for the weekend and wanted to help me work on it. I handed her the hotchkis front sway bar and said "go for it":

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3428.jpg

Haha, she's a good sport, and 2 hours later, we finally got the swaybar in...

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3430.jpg

Project Trackday is coming along nicely...tomorrow I am shipping my power steering pump back to Unisteer so they can upgrade me to a double-groove pulley. I ordered my wheels from Newstalgia...but I won't say what they are until I can post pics in 3-5 weeks. Phase 1 is almost complete!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3458.jpg

sik68

08-03-2008, 11:03 PM

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3460.jpg

Thanks for tuning in,
Steven

68protouring454

08-04-2008, 02:58 AM

tgvettes

08-04-2008, 06:50 AM

Another thing for you to check out if you haven't already, I heard that like billet rally wheels are not supposed to work with C5 brake kits. Of course I don't know what wheels you ordered but if you haven't checked make sure the wheels you are getting fit with C5 brakes.

Tonny

sik68

08-04-2008, 09:13 AM

get rid of that spacer behind the rotor its gonna cause run out and squeaky brakes, bring the caliper abutment to someone with a bridgeport mill ands have them mill .007 of the mounting pads. you always want your rotor against your hub or axle flange

Cheers, Jake! :captain:

I was hoping I would raise some eyebrows on this one, because I am not sure that shimming the rotor is acceptable practice. Although the runout I achieved seems ok, 0.004", there may be side effects that I'm not considering. Has anyone here had their abutment brackets milled?

Steven

Apogee

08-04-2008, 10:24 AM

Cheers, Jake! :captain:

I was hoping I would raise some eyebrows on this one, because I am not sure that shimming the rotor is acceptable practice. Although the runout I achieved seems ok, 0.004", there may be side effects that I'm not considering. Has anyone here had their abutment brackets milled?

Steven

Steven,

We've had several customers in the past who have milled either the brackets or the PABs in order to compensate for a housing not exactly to "spec". Since we're only talking .070", I wouldn't hesitate to do either, just depending on what I had access to with respect to tools and fixturing...the PABs are a little more difficult to set up on a mill than a flat plate is.

I know you purchased the DIHPB brackets so that you could add the parking brake in the future, but keep in mind that if/when you do that you may need to cut down the lip of the internal drum in order to maintain sufficient clearance between the drum and the parking brake backing plate. Technically there should be about .010" clearance...but I wouldn't count on it.

Tobin
KORE3

sik68

08-14-2008, 11:37 PM

Today I found a deal on craigslist that was too good to pass up, a TKO transmission with the 0.64 5th gear:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3469.jpg

This is not actually the TKO500 or TKO600, but their predecessor, simply the TKO. I got a bit swindled by the guy I bought it from since he advertised it as a TKO600 and I didn't know any better. The only differences between the TKO and the TKO500/600 are the material of the gears, which was upgraded with the TKO500/600, and the bolt pattern of the shifter, which is rectangular for the TKO500/600. My transmission supports 425ft.lbs.

Here's some reading in case you are in the market for a used TKO

3550/TKO: http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/3550_tko.html
TKO500/600: http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/tr-3550.html

Also look at the service manuals on Tremecs website to decode what transmission it is. This is how I got burned.
The serial tag on my tranny is:
TR3550 #2600708

Input Shaft Length: 7.2"
Bearing Retainer Diameter: 4.85"

To make the transmission compatible, I'm gunna ditch the shown bellhousing and go with a Lakewood bellhousing (#15030) or Quicktime (#RM-6064) that adapts the TKO to the chevy small block.

I found another thread on camaros.net where a guy did the exact swap with the Ford 7.2" input shaft:
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72332&highlight=ford+tko

I emailed him since and he said all went well when he used a Ford throwout bearing.

Maybe in by winter!!

sik68

08-24-2008, 09:27 PM

Awww yeah.... my wheels came in from Newstalgia. Vintage wheel works V48. Mock up only, I know it's the wrong side... I'll have plenty of pictures once they are fully mounted in a couple weeks time

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3498.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_3502.jpg

Now I just need a couple free weekends to finish up my car. I will have a proper update in a couple of weeks.

will69camaro

08-25-2008, 07:54 AM

Looks great man, glad to see it moving along!

William

badbu68

08-25-2008, 10:11 PM

Love the rims, keep up the updates!

waynieZ

08-26-2008, 05:31 PM

Sharp wheels the whole project looks great . Keep the updates coming.

sik68

09-09-2008, 10:53 PM

This weekend was chaos! Here is a summary of the new problems that developed:

In ascending order of PITA:
1. The stock wheel studs that came with the ATS spindle are too short. I mocked up my front wheel with the 1/4" spacer, and I can only get 3 turns on the nut...not good. Simple to solve though... I have 2.5" ARP studs on the way, Summit #ARP-100-7708 Of course I'll have a writeup on the replacement. In the mean time:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0596.jpg

2. The relatively cheap 1 5/8" Dynomax headers have no chance of clearing the ATS steering box. The #3 primary is basically groping the box. The pictures shows how there's no chance these headers will work:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0586.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0587-1.jpg

From my research on www.camaros.net , to clear the power steering box you need the right set of headers, and possibly the correct motor mounts. My engine is a 327, likely with the original mounts, which are different from the 350 engine stands which are better for PS box clearance.

David Pozzi breaks it down (thanks!):
http://www.pozziracing.com/Media/camaro_eng_mounts.jpg

So, I ordered a set of Doug's D368 1 3/4" headers...yeah that size is probably too big for a 327, but if these headers work, then they'll be perfectly sized for a future engine build. And if I still need more room, I will acquire the 350 motor mounts and that should cure the problem. Photos of the Doug's soon!

3. Draining the oil, the first 12 ounces or so of fluid from my pan was WATER/COOLANT! Well, this one I guess I could see coming, because back when I built the top end of this engine in college, I was going for max compression and thought I could get away with a 0.015" SCE full copper gasket without the "steel rings". Nope, and an even worse idea with an undecked block and aluminum heads.

But I'm turning this into a positive. Since the topend will be apart, I am pulling out the unknown flat tappet that is lame above 4800rpm, and going with a mild solid roller cam, likely the Comp XR274R. This sets my timeline back significantly, but at least I'll be able to give you my 1st timer solid roller install.

Step 1 of cam swap, radiator out:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0604.jpg

sik68

09-14-2008, 10:39 PM

9/14/08 Update

Well, this weekend was a complete turnaround from last weekend...things actually went smoothly for a change! 1st, I installed my new front wheel studs into the ATS C5 hub. ARP 7708 2.5" studs from Summit, they are the correct knurl and thread, and really look like an upgrade over the stock studs:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0618.jpg

To remove the studs, I went to Autozone and picked up a single wheel nut, threaded it down 95% of the way, and tapped lightly with a hammer...that's all it took!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0620.jpg

To install the new studs, I drove to my grandfather's place and used his 20t press.

Next up, my new Doug's D368 headers! And they clear the power steering box! Man, these are quality pieces compared with my Dynomax headers. Doug's top, Dynomax bottom.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0649.jpg

For my mockup install, I had the car on jackstands front and rear, and the steering box was not in. I put the header in from the top. Then I covered the primaries with a rag, and could actually put the steering box in from the top and completely bolt it in. The clearance isn't enormous, but it could be enough since the motor torques to the other side and I am running solid body bushings. Here are some pictures of the clearance:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0660.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0663.jpg

sik68

09-14-2008, 10:39 PM

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0662.jpg

The clearance is actually a bit more everywhere than these photos show, it's just hard to get a photo that shows the true gap between them. Finding headers that fit is a true victory. :thankyou:I didn't try the passenger side header yet.

Oh, and for the record, here is a photo of the driver's header and how far it hangs below the subframe: Roughly 1.5"

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0668.jpg

sik68

09-16-2008, 11:39 AM

Teaser wheel shots again!

Vintage Wheel Works V48

Front: 17x8 4.75" Backspacing, 1/4" spacer. 245/45/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3

Rear: 17x9.5 5.5" Backspacing. 275/40/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3

This was the car's first time on the ground so the suspension is far from settled.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0630.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0626.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0644.jpg

deuce_454

09-19-2008, 01:23 PM

where is the center brake hose from?? i need one!

deuce_454

09-19-2008, 01:32 PM

where is the center brake hose from?? i need one!

sik68

09-19-2008, 03:43 PM

where is the center brake hose from?? i need one!

Tobin @ Kore3 set me up with the stainless brake lines :thumbsup:

deuce_454

09-20-2008, 01:05 AM

thanx... bear dont think i need one for some odd reason!

sik68

10-13-2008, 06:57 AM

I finally have an update!

As I mentioned in an earlier update, I had a head gasket leak. So I picked up a pair of Mr. Gasket head gaskets (Summit #MRG-1134) 0.028" thick. I also replaced the intake manifold gaskets with Felpro 1205 gaskets, which are a very close match to the intake ports of my Pro Topline 200cc heads. Within a weekend, I tore the engine down to the short block, replaced the head gaskets, and built it back up.

After I debugged some electrical gremlins, the car had it's first startup in a year and a half!! Running straight headers (Only ran it for 30 seconds or so since I had no cooling system in).

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/th_Project1.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/?action=view&current=Project1.flv)

The car jumps to attention nearly instantly after I turn the key!

I also took some glamour shots (I got the headlights working!)

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0722.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0715.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0739.jpg

I took Mr. Pozzi's advice and am now running a second dedicated belt to the power steering pump. Here it 's during my mockup:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0724.jpg

I'm getting so close to taking it for a spin!

sik68

11-09-2008, 10:21 PM

The past few weekends, I have been absolutely tormented by not having opportunities to work on my car. Finally though, my calendar was commitment-free, so I dove under the car.

I was able to cross off a couple more things off the list this weekend:

1. Install steering linkage
I ordered Detroit Speed's steering linkage overhaul kit, which includes all of the components you need from the pitman arm to the outer tie rods (except the center link). The tie rod adjuster arms are pretty slick looking and solidly made:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0847.jpg

I encountered two problems. Firstly, the #6 header pipe is touching the rubber boot of the idler arm. Untreated, it will probably melt, so I am going to wrap the tube with some header wrap to keep the heat transfer minimal. I will continue to monitor it, as body flex or engine torquing could do some damage. The second problem is that with the steering stop knobs on the Global West arms, I am only getting 1.5 turns lock to lock! I know the Lee box's 12.7:1 ratio is quick, but looking at the angle of the spindles at lock, I'm thinking I will need more. Can someone tell me if it is ok to simply grind down the knobs a bit?

2. Plumb my power steering setup & finalize belts
The stainless braided hoses that I got from Unisteer are quality pieces, but I wouldn't have minded if they were made 2 inches longer. The hi pressure line is a -6 female on both sides, which was JUST long enough to be able to route cleanly to the banjo fitting on the pump. The return line though, I had to pull unacceptably tight to reach the reservoir. My solution? Earl's 921106 ($14 each?!?!) 90deg elbow fittings.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0845.jpg

And here are the hoses attached. Note that the return line is actually a -8 end, and Unisteer includes the -8 to -6 adapter:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0848.jpg

It's amazing what a bit of braided line and some nice fittings can do to muscle-up an engine room :)

sik68

11-09-2008, 10:22 PM

Here's a (dust ridden) picture of my accessory drive system. Thanks again to Mr. Pozzi for "steering" me to run a dedicated belt to my pump.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0849.jpg

3. Misc
I reinstalled the radiator, which went pretty smoothly. I also snugged up the bolt at the firewall that connects the gas pedal to the throttle linkage. I had noticed that my pedal travel was limited, and the carb linkage wasn't able to open the secondaries with the pedal to the floor. That oughta help the performance quite a bit :)

Night shot I took for fun:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0858.jpg

Well, next weekend I will inch even closer to the project's completion, as I bleed the brakes and pray for a leak-free system. When that's finished, I do believe that Trackday will be ready for a shakedown run.

Thanks for tuning in!

sik68

12-24-2008, 10:12 AM

Last weekend I took it up and down the driveway for its first spin!

RRePBGRZFLY

Link to watch in High Quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRePBGRZFLY

Does it sound like its running on less than 8 cylinders to anybody else? I put in 8 new spark plugs but that didn't help. I'm going to change plug wires and see if that cures it. Otherwise, MSD for me.

All I can report for now, is that the steering is lightning quick. I'm up against the steering stops on the control arms, and the turning radius isn't that great so I may have to grind them down a bit. 1.5 turns lock to lock.

GHOSTDANCER

12-24-2008, 10:24 AM

Sounds real good :thumbsup: :cheers:

awr68

12-24-2008, 10:30 AM

Very cool! I'm having a good time watching this one come together! It will be on the road real soon!! :thumbsup:

JeffT

12-24-2008, 11:37 AM

Congrats on your first "driveway cruise"!

It's very hard to tell the health due to sound quality over the internet. Be sure to check your dist. cap/rotor and route the new plug wires as cleanly as possible and away from the header tubes. I wouldn't want them touching the tubes even with those high heat boot covers on them. If the new plug wires don't help, I'd suggest a compression check or better yet a leak down check before dropping the $$$ on MSD stuff that may not be the cure to your prob.

AALynch

12-24-2008, 11:31 PM

Looks great! I'm also 23 years old, but I've had my 69 Camaro for 9 years now...I've unbolted every single bolt on the car, so a little more work than you, but I'm still on stock CA's/front suspension...at least I have the motor out of the way!!!

Keep the posts coming...

sik68

12-30-2008, 06:27 PM

...at least I have the motor out of the way!!!

Keep the posts coming...

Well we now have something in common.

So it sounded like I was running on 7 cylinders. Thats because one of the spark plugs was submerged in antifreeze. And actually, I took my passenger header off and and 2 ounces of fluid dripped from the pipe. As this is my second try with mating the heads to the deck, I'm pretty sure the 40-year-old deck is bad.

Meet my latest batch of oil that I found the day after Christmas:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4777.jpg

In my own sick, twisted way though, I was happy...an excuse to rip out the engine, rebuild it, and go with a solid roller cam and a bunch more compression. Besides, I have a 5 speed on my shelf!

So today, I got my grandpa's "cherry picker" and went to town on pulling the 327/TH350.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4787.jpg

The hard part is getting everything ready for the pull, it took 1/2 the day...yanking the engine only took 20 mins.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4797.jpg

So, here they sit, torn apart on such short notice. But drastic times call for drastic measures:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4804-1.jpg

Please stay tuned, as I am making a decision very soon on whether to go with a solid roller 350, built by Rex Hutchinson Racing in Sacramento (using my heads/manifold), or overhaul my existing 327 with block work and a solid roller, built by a more pedestrian, local machine shop.

Things just went to the next level.

will69camaro

12-31-2008, 11:58 AM

sik68

01-02-2009, 10:18 AM

Well sorry for the news about the motor but it'll be fun upgrading. I dont know what I'd do honestly. I mean what is the cost difference in the two motors? You could always go cheap and do a basic build on the 327 and save cash for a diff motor later. Money saved now can turn into a MUCH nicer motor later without putting you in the hole now. Car will be plenty fun for a bit I'm sure with the nice suspension and brakes and a rebuilt 327 with heads/cam/intake.

Just my thoughts on it.

Ugh! That's exactly my dilemma. I could get the 327 rebuilt for about $2000, but the impression I got meeting with them wasn't so positive. I don't think they build too many performance engines. For $4500, Rex will take my shortblock on trade and assemble my engine with their stout 350 shortblock, 230ish solid roller, test my heads and assemble my engine.

So I am doing it right, and going with the 350. I could always think of more exotic combos, but this engine is the perfect combination of affordable and badass. The engine should be done in February. I'm broke, but so pumped.

Josh69

01-02-2009, 03:54 PM

There is always a silver lining right? Keep up the enthusiasm though, it'll pan out. I'm a younger fella too, but you have me by a few years. I got my car running this summer after a year and a half, only to have to pull the motor out due to a pesky leak, that turned out to be the freeze plug behind the camshaft popped out (Pontiac block). Yay, burnt oil an my new exhaust and coated headers, and a full oil bath for the rest of the chassis.

Oh well, it's part and parcel of hot-rodding!

Happy New Year!
Josh

thedugan

01-02-2009, 05:52 PM

Somebody on the board has to have a motor that they can sell you. This is a great thread.

sik68

01-23-2009, 09:19 AM

We dropped the engine off on Saturday.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/rex.jpg

I'm sure some of you locals have heard of Rex Hutchison Racing in Sacramento, CA. They have built a solid reputation over the years, firmly rooted in local level and national level racing. We have known the owner personally for 14 years, and treats us like we buy an engine every month. I still remember him from back in 1995 (I was 12), when my dad had a 454 built for our Eliminator. The shop tour they gave us was incredible, and probably the first time I understood the addiction to horsepower.

However, when it came to building my engine, I started out a bit skeptical of my dad's recommendation to call Rex. I didn't like the idea of an engine build by a shop that I considered "old school." Aluminum heads, solid roller cam, high revs, pro touring...I didn't see my ideas meshing well with a shop that's been around since the stone ages. Long story short, my misconceptions were smushed when I spoke with Dan, who is arranging the details of my build as we speak. Not to mention Rex, who makes you feel like his grandkid within about 10 minutes. We got a shop tour again...the fully-ported LSX 454 with a sheetmetal intake quelled any fears I had about the shop stuck in the stone ages.

The details are still pending, but so far this is the direction we are headed (with help from the great guys at www.camaros.net too):

Engine Build
355ci 4 bolt, forged pistons, moly rings, brass plugs, etc
10:1
Pro Topline aluminum 200cc heads (off my 327), possibly port
XR280R solid roller cam, 242 248 duration
Victor Jr or RPM Air Gap
Holley 750 DP
1 3/4" headers

Summary of the rest of my Drivetrain:
Aluminum Flywheel
Centerforce clutch
TKO 5 speed
3.73 Rear

Should be good for 450 hp at 6500rpm, and peak torque around 4800 and rev like a monster

deuce_454

01-23-2009, 11:46 AM

sik68

01-23-2009, 11:59 AM

the power is made in the heads and cam... you could propably bump the compression alittle and gain alittle.. but that sounds like a strong engine...

i would spend the cash and have it ballanced... it will last longer and run smoother..

but looking good

Thanks Deuce! The shortblock was pre-assembled actually, and is balanced.

It's basically a top end build for these guys, but there will likely be some time involved in machining my heads. Back when I assembled the 327, a couple of the rocker arms wouldn't center over the valve stem, and the pushrod was already against the head. Rex said that have had some issues with Pro-Topline heads on this, and will clearance if necessary. They will also pressure test, and might port them a bit if they feel it's worth it.

sik68

03-01-2009, 06:39 PM

UPDATED 2/28/09

Today was the big day, when I picked up my newly built engine from Rex Hutchison.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4851.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4852.jpg

Final Specs:
355ci, 9.8:1 compression, balanced & blueprinted
200cc Pro Topline Aluminum heads, performance valve job, bowl blend, polished chambers
Comp cams solid roller, XR274R 236int 242exh 0.564"int 0.570"exh
Edelbrock 7501 air gap intake, port matched
1 3/4" Dougs headers

To be purchased this month:
Custom built Pro Systems carb

The engine should be a beast, and will produce way more power than I am comfortable with. I'm sure this thing will scare me for a long time. I will install it once I piece together my transmission parts, so I can slide everything in at once. Probably mid April.

Speaking of transmissions, here's what I discovered today when I was taking measurements of my craigslist-purchased TKO:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4850.jpg

It's supposed to be 4.85". When he sold it to me, the jackass failed to mention that he lathed 0.2" from the diameter to accomodate his bellhousing. Thus, I need to replace that piece, so I am trying to source it now. I hate liars...and I hate that I got worked.

ElkyZO6

04-03-2009, 01:51 PM

Updates?

sik68

04-05-2009, 11:23 PM

Updates?

Yes! Thanks for the push!

I haven't had much time to work on the car, so I don't have any progress pictures lately, but I do have this:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4959.jpg

I really geeked out when this thing arrived. What a top-o-the line piece, and should be close to perfect right from the box, as it's custom built. Yes, I mean business! :unibrow:

GvEman

04-06-2009, 01:07 AM

Thats a realy nice project car! Nice moods! And what a killer stance!! Keep us posted on your progress please! :lateral:

NvrDun71

04-06-2009, 05:13 PM

Yes! Thanks for the push!

I haven't had much time to work on the car, so I don't have any progress pictures lately, but I do have this:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4959.jpg

I really geeked out when this thing arrived. What a top-o-the line piece, and should be close to perfect right from the box, as it's custom built. Yes, I mean business! :unibrow:

What are the specs and if you don't mind me asking what did it run you? Nice looking carb

68protouring454

04-06-2009, 05:21 PM

pro systems rocks, i have gotten two carbs from them both hp1000 and they have been spot on.

sik68

04-07-2009, 02:38 PM

What are the specs and if you don't mind me asking what did it run you? Nice looking carb

PM Sent.

It has a Holley HP 780 main body, center hung floats (looks like a quick fuel bowl), sight glass, wet flow calibrated. I'm not a carb guru, so I'm sure someone else could ramble on more.

Tested to
791CFM

Kendall Burleson

04-07-2009, 03:00 PM

Don't few bad guys I'm on third time around to be 21 again.:cool: :cool: :rofl:

TonyG

04-07-2009, 09:55 PM

Great project. It is very nice seeing someone as young as you that is interested in something other than a FWD economy car..lol

will69camaro

04-08-2009, 10:29 AM

Agreed. I like knowing I'm not alone in a sea of civics, s2000s, evos, supras. Always good to see a young guy building a kickass old car. I'm excited to see how this turns out. Building my desire to work on my own for sure!

William

T Bell

04-08-2009, 08:32 PM

great looking wheels also. I can't wait to see the whole thing together

67SS350

04-17-2009, 10:32 PM

I agree as well... pretty motivating... i've had my 67 since I was 15 (23 now) went thru engineering school and painted the car... but no "real" work since freshman year.... I would love to do an LS1 brake conversion, astro hydroboost... and a well sorted suspension... but theres always a but... and I just keep thinking the car is "OK" the way it is.... but it could be so much better...

so keep it up, the car's stance looks great, would love to hear how it does on the track compared to LS1 camaro's and stock C5's. AutoX'ing a 1st gen would be great, you'd deff be turning heads amidst all the wrx's and mazdaspeed3's!!!!!

sik68

04-25-2009, 07:26 PM

sik68

04-25-2009, 07:27 PM

Well it's been nearly 2 months, but I finally had a chance to work on my car this weekend. Here's the latest

1) Composite Distributor Gear:

My Mallory Unilite distributor had a steel gear. For roller cam applications, I kept reading that it is important to run a bronze or composite gear. So, I bought the Comp Cams composite gear ( 0.491" for Mallorys). For what it's worth, it's less rotating inertia than the bronze, haha.

Here's a side-by-side (steel one still on distributor):
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4969.jpg

Here's showing how I knocked out the pin using a hardened nail that fit just right.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4970.jpg

Linkage just doesn't make functional sense to me. So the next thing I did was install the Lokar throttle cable and gas pedal. This is probably one of the easiest things I have done to this car. Here's the midnight series pedal:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4978.jpg

The arms are splined, so that you can clock the height of the pedal to your preference. Great for getting those heel-toe downshifts just perfect.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4979.jpg

Here's where I determined where to drill the 5/16" hole, which puts it nearly dead on with the throttle lever:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4982.jpg

sik68

04-25-2009, 07:28 PM

Here's the Lokar cable. I put a washer on both sides of the nuts as I think it looks better:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4984.jpg

Here's the linkage on the pedal side. This is the first Lokar stuff I have owned....their quality really lives up to the hype:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4985.jpg

And here's an overview of the installation in the footwell:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_4987.jpg

Stay tuned, as I will soon jump into the transmission installation, which will signify the end of this phase of the project (I think). I want to drive this thing soooo bad.

Thanks!
Steven

will69camaro

04-25-2009, 08:17 PM

Thanks for the update! That pedal looks pretty nice. I've been looking for a simple solution to the rigged setup I had on my car. When I go to replacing I will have to look into that pedal/cable assembly.

William

sik68

05-10-2009, 10:10 PM

5/10/09 Update

Well today was the day I have been anticipating for a long time...the beginning of my first flywheel/clutch/bellhousing/tranny install ever. To be honest, I had never seen the naked back end of an small block chevy until I took delivery of my 355. This was a true first-timer experience, so I hope to offer encouragement to those of you who are on the fence about DIY tranny install.

I think this would have been a whole lot more difficult if the engine were in the car. Having it dangling from a cherry picker (with a safety lockout of course) is way easier.

First I tapped in the pilot bearing into the bore of the crank, which went in without any distress. Then hammered in the straight dowel pins, and hung the block protector plate. Summarized in this picture:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5059.jpg
Keen eyes will notice that that is not a standard chevy pilot bearing. True; This is a lakewood adaptor bearing (15975) to put a ford tranny behind and SBC. The TKO I have is the ford style, with a longer input shaft.

Next, I mocked up the Fidanza 153 tooth aluminum flywheel (198541), 10.5lbs. Caution, the pressure plate bolts I show (6 around the outside) are for mockup puposes only, use the proper pressure plate fasteners.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5060.jpg
I have been raising quite a few eyebrows when I tell people I am running an aluminum flywheel. Here is some discussion of the issue: http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55266 . I think I am a good candidate for an aluminum flywheel, based on my gearing. I could be shooting myself in the foot on this one, but I know this is something that I will regret if I don't try for myself. Make sure you are using flywheel bolts, not just any old grade 8 hardware. Here I used ARP 2801.

Next, I mocked up my new starter (Summit 820323) to check for tooth alignment:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5064.jpg
I used 2 shims to achieve proper alignment per the instructions. I didn't have to knock out the "knock out plate" on the block protector, so that was good.

sik68

05-10-2009, 10:11 PM

Aluminum isn't magnetic:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5069.jpg
Much tougher to find a good mounting position for your dial indicator when doing a bellhousing alignment if your magnetic base indicator doesn't stick to a good portion of your flywheel. I had to use the bolts and the friction surface simultaneously...it was stable though. This was by far the most tedius task of the whole process.

About the bellhousing alignment, there is plenty of information online about how to do it. www.classicchevy5speed.com has a video, and there are tons of other resources... if your engine is out of the car, I would recommend you do it yourself. It may take a weekend of zen-like patience, because you're knocking dowel pins in and out, positioning your dial indicator, and bolting and unbolting your bellhousing, but it's not difficult.

Here's the bellhousing I am using, Lakewood 15030:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5065.jpg
In conjunction with the pilot bearing I showed you, this particular Lakewood is used to adapt a Ford-input-shaft TKO to a small block chevy. The Ford input shaft is roughly 0.3" longer, so the bellhousing is longer to accomodate. I have read (and believe) that the Quicktime bellhousing (RM-6064) is more spot-on than the Lakewood, but I got this bellhousing used so it was worth a try.

My remarks on Offset Dowels
In addition to the straight dowels, I bought all 3 offsets: 0.007, 0.014, 0.021 to have on hand. The dowels themselves come with no mention of where the high/low point actually is on the dowel, stupid. Anyways, what I did is just put a straight dowel side by side with an offset dowel and shine light through them. A little crude, but my brother and I both came up with the same point, so I was satisfied. After 6 alignment tries and the typical dial indicator math (a couple just to ensure repeatability), I came within the 0.005 tolerance using the 0.007 dowels clocked at about 12:30. Parallelism was within 0.002 as well. My experience, Lakewood isn't so bad.

To round out the weekend with some eye candy, I mocked up my 10.4" Centerforce dual friction clutch & pressure plate (DF161739) on the flywheel (note again that the pressure plate bolts I show are for mockup only...will use proper hardware for final install):
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5072.jpg

Centerforce lists 3 dual friction clutches for SBCs:
DF161056 $ XXX ftlbs <--weakest one
DF161675 $$ 430 ftlbs <--marginal for me if I decide to run slicks
DF161739 $$$ 530 ftlbs <--just right

Summit racing lists the clutch I got for Pontiacs only...but a call to Centerforce said that it can be used on SBC's as well.

Well that was 2 days worth of work; thanks for tuning in. Getting there!

67SS350

05-24-2009, 09:06 PM

I just did the IROC Z steering box update and have had quite a time getting a replacement steering line fitting for the line that is in the car... I'll probably end up getting custom hoses made and drive the car like that for the summer.

Next is a disc brake conversion in the fall... but I'd like to keep it to a minimum investment!!!

in the meantime I'll be doing an engine swap on my winter car... 89 325iX

67SS350

05-24-2009, 09:15 PM

meant to add that the wheels and the stance looks great

waynieZ

05-24-2009, 09:40 PM

As always very nice work and an excelent explanation of the process.

KlasSic68

06-05-2009, 12:12 PM

This is a good looking project, I love the DIY write up, very nice and informative. :thumbsup:

awr68

06-05-2009, 01:56 PM

Nice progress and good tech!! :thumbsup:

sik68

06-05-2009, 02:15 PM

Thanks guys!

I put together a calculation to compare my car's gearing with several of the benchmark cars I have in mind. This gives a pretty good impression of how much torque multiplication different cars are running in each gear.

The speed comparison is done at 6500rpm...obviously some of the cars here can rev further than that.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/GEARING_COMP.jpg

Some of my observations:
1) The lower torque, 6 cylinder cars (GT3 and GT-R) run much steeper gearing than their V8 counterparts. Look at the GT-R coming out of the hole!

2) The GT3 has very close ratios, especially 4th through 6th. 6th is only barely an overdrive.

3) If you don't like shifting that much, get a C6 z06

4) Tire diameter is important. The 2010 Camaro SS needs to lose the SUV tires.

5) I have great torque multiplication down low...I should be able to hang with some of the big power boys until aerodynamics takes over.

Bryce

06-05-2009, 02:53 PM

cool project, I am 25 and have been working on my car for 9yrs. i have done all the work myself as well. good job.

and those are the wheels i decided for my car. good choice.

sik68

06-30-2009, 09:41 AM

UPDATE 6/30/2009

With this latest step, the saga of my Ford TKO to the SBC I believe is finally over. The mounting pad of the transmission case had to be drilled/tapped for the chevy transmission mount bolt pattern. The Ford bolt pattern is wider than the Chevy. I marked my holes, and carefully aligned the tranny, upside-down, under the drill press. In this picture, you can see the Ford transmission bolt holes at the wider spacing.

Drill:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5186.jpg

Tap:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5187.jpg

Mount:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5188.jpg

Whew! That took some cajones.

Next, I had to buy the correct throwout bearing. I had originally bought the Chevy throwout bearing, N1716, but the inner diameter is too small and won't slide on the snout of the input shaft. The Ford N1714 is the correct bearing with the larger ID. I'm disappointed though, that it doesn't fit into the clutch fork as well as the chevy does, as there's a bit of slop that's not present with the Chevy throwout.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5182.jpg

sik68

06-30-2009, 09:42 AM

MODO PEDALS: MONEY WELL SPLURGED

I have the Lokar midnight throttle pedal assembly, but I wanted to take it up a notch, so I ordered the 110L pedal pad setup from Modo Innovations. Shannon Odom wasy very helpful. 940-391-9002.

Here's a comparison of the Modo pedal with the Lokar pedal:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5196.jpg

Installing the brake and clutch pedal pads to the pedals was pretty easy. The only thing I didn't like was how close to the corners you have to drill the holes into the pedal. It turned just fine though.
Here's my setup, shown with everything you need to git-r-done:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5203.jpg

The result:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5198.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_5205.jpg

Thanks for staying tuned!

Steven

KlasSic68

06-30-2009, 10:05 AM

Very nice! money well spent, those look awesome! :thumbsup:

GHOSTDANCER

06-30-2009, 10:11 AM

Those look great:thumbsup:

MODO Innovations

06-30-2009, 10:26 AM

Nice pictures and thanks for the kind words.
I try to help whenever needed.

Thanks again for your business.:thumbsup:

sik68

07-20-2009, 09:59 AM

7/20/09 UPDATE

I made a lot of progress this weekend, inching ever closer to sliding the engine and tranny in. Did a lot of nitty gritty stuff which isn't really worth photographs. However, I took advantage of the room under the hood clean up the wiring and install my new 6AL-2 MSD ignition box.

My mounting solution for the box is inside the car, supported by the ash tray bracket. I think its pretty slick...covert, yet still easy to access when I want to play with the rev limits. Unclutters the engine bay as well.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_1455.jpg

Undo the two knobs, and you can take the box off:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_1456.jpg

Hidden:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_1460.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_1458.jpg

SickSpeedMonte

07-20-2009, 12:36 PM

Thanks for sharing! Keep us updated.

sik68

08-19-2009, 11:33 AM

8/18 UPDATE

Finally had a free weekend to get down-n-dirty. Before I get into Saturday's and Sundays activities though, I realized it has been nearly 2 years to the day, when I started my Pro-Touring build. So to commemorate the occasion, here's the Cliff's notes on this build thread.

Suspension
-Began by completely gutting the stock suspension and drum brakes.
-Installed Global West solid body mounts
-Front Suspension is Global West control arms, ATS Spindles, Hotchkis Sway Bar
-Rear Suspension is Gobal West leafs with del-a-lum bushings.

Brakes
-Manual Wilwood master cylinder
-C5 Corvette brakes front and rear

Body
-Paint will be last...primer is a liberating experience.

Engine
-Put Pro-Topline heads on my stock 327, but it was still puking antifreeze into my oil after 2 gasket changes
-Screw it, had Rex Hutchison Racing build the solid roller 355 I had in my head for years. Could have gone with more ci, but I like the "more with less" approach.

Driveline
-With the engine swap, I also converted from the TH350 to a TKO
-Aluminum flywheel
-Centerforce clutch
-3.73 rear end

Okay, now that we're one the same page, this weekend I slid the 355/TKO into my car.

Here is the assembly all bolted up, ready to go into the car. (In the background, that's my brother's 70 he just got for high school graduation)
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0166-1.jpg

The first time around, I forgot the throwout bearing...DOH!

Just the tip:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0170-1.jpg

Almost there:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0172-1.jpg

In!
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0175-1.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0177-1.jpg

Along with the engine install, I cut the shifter hole, tightened down some brake fittings, cleaned up some wiring, and installed some of the clutch linkage. Shouldn't be too long now!

70rs

08-19-2009, 11:44 AM

Very nice combo! Tell your brother to join up and post some pics of that '70!:thumbsup:

tones2SS

08-19-2009, 11:57 AM

Very cool.:thumbsup:

waynieZ

08-19-2009, 08:20 PM

Nice drive train should be a sweet ride . Tell your brother he has a nice car too ...

sik68

02-22-2010, 07:55 PM

I am months behind on my updates...so here they are en masse!

sik68

02-22-2010, 07:56 PM

Hi all, long time no see. The last time I worked on the car, I had a terrible weekend, so I decided to skip on an update. What I encountered last time is in grave detail here (http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60046) but it can be summed up in this picture:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0197.jpg

I decided to abandon my effort to run clutch linkage, and go full hydraulic. This weekend was the 5th time I had my engine in and out. Between myself, my dad, and my brother, we can pull the engine/tranny in ~5 minutes and re-install in about 15...we've had lots of practice.

Having never encountered hydraulic clutch setups in my life, I was a complete newbie. After reading many threads and talking with many helpful people on this site (special shoutout to Frank at Prodigy, for talking me through my problem even when he had nothing to sell me), I had come up with the following components for my install:

Keisler hydraulic clutch kit (minus the throwout bearing), which includes Wilwood 3/4" MC
Mcleod 1400-30 slip-on throwout bearing (for my Ford input shaft)
4ft of -4AN steel braided hose
Misc. earl's fittings...

Here is a picture of the main components:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0241.jpg

You can see on the MC that there is a machined billet base, which is what Keisler provides to align the MC pushrod to the clutch pedal holes. Nice jobto Keisler for a quality setup. Just make sure that the master cylinder pushrod doesn't kink during pedal travel. I had this problem and had to drill another hole lower on the pedal to prevent binding. It's 3/4" lower than the other hole, so it should not increase pedal effort too much more.

Next, the throwout bearing. Here it is on the input shaft.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0243.jpg
Setting up the proper length was super easy...there's a threaded sleeve that slips on the input shaft first, then the TO bearing threads onto the sleeve. Just turn it on the threads until proper length is achieved.

Here is a picture of the two hose ends from the TO bearing out of the clutch fork hole, bleeder end goes on top:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0263.jpg

Lucky for me, I didn't have to redo any of my brake lines. With a little encouragement, everything seemed to just clear and turned out to be a pretty compact arrangement:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0267.jpg
Gotta love the increasingly prevelant blue/red fitting look!

With my clutch problems solved and the engine and tranny in, I believe it's all downhill from here. It's now just a matter of getting the engine ready for its first fire. Hopefully in early November.

Thanks for staying tuned!
Steven

sik68

02-22-2010, 08:00 PM

Hi everybody. For the most part though, I've been doing nothing car-related...as I popped the question to my long time girlfriend, Jackie. As of December 5th, we're engaged!

Ok, back to car stuff. Christmas week (this week) I have off, so I will be getting a lot done.

Today (tuesday) was an epic day: the first ignition of my new 355.
9hYyyV9wkXo

I was losing hope that this day would ever come...I am still partly in shock that car is running.

As a side note, I also installed my prototype for my clutch pedal stop. It is a rubber foot sandwiched between washers, with a screw through it, a couple nuts for pre-tension, a threaded sleeve for adjustability, and another flat screw. I came up with this setup because it will work with the Modo pedal covers I have.

It doesn't look super strong but I think it will get the job done...I am going to try it out and see if it holds up.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0633.jpg

And here it is installed:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0640.jpg

Check back soon as I will be working on the car today, tomorrow, and Thursday. Should be picking up the new driveshaft, installing the radiator, water pump, power steering, and bleeding the clutch. Trackday may just be on the road soon!

Thanks,
Steven

sik68

02-22-2010, 08:04 PM

It's almost ready...

YfnbwkMvm-g

Rod P

02-22-2010, 08:07 PM

:thumbsup: Looks Great :thumbsup: Schedules suck, just build it :cheers:

sik68

02-22-2010, 09:02 PM

Hi everyone. It's been a long time coming, and I've been through many ups and downs to achieve the moment that happened this past Sunday. Trackday finally stretched its legs on public roads for the first time:

_UsFvk1FXMM

There are still many items on the to do list, but this moment was truly monumental. After so many setbacks, I am still in shock that it happened.

I am still working out a clutch release/shift issue that unfolded here (http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=616891#post616891) in the emergency room. For quick reference, my hydraulic throwout bearing was leaking into my bellhousing. After much consideration, I decided to remove the weights from my centerforce dual friction clutch, as they were likely interfering with the larger-than-usual diameter of the Mcleod 1400 bearing, causing the bearing to tilt, compromising the o-ring seal.

As much as I love the open headers...the "loud pipes saves lives" mantra apparently only works when you're on a hog. So I am going with an aggressive exhaust setup: 3" tube, Magnaflow X pipe, and Borla XR1 (Summit 40944) mufflers, dumped before the axle. Should sound pretty good...of course you'll get the scoop when they're installed.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0670.jpg

Lastly, I was experiencing engine run-on. It's really weird when you key-off the car and the beast keeps running. After much research on forums and MSD site, the simple fix was to install a diode in line with the wire that runs from the alternator to the idiot light. Picked up a 4 pack from Radioshack (part 276-1661). I know the install looks a bit janky, but it actually holds together real well plus I shrinkwrapped it:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0661.jpg

Thanks for hanging with me after all these years and posts, and advising me along the way. I plan to post an article soon detailing my first impressions of the car.

Hooray!
Steven

sik68

02-22-2010, 09:03 PM

Everyone knows the stock Camaro seats have about as much support as the back of a rodeo bull. I've been searching for fixed-back seats ever since. Swooped up this Sparco Pro2000 seat on Craigslist. It's FIA legal AND it was in a Corvette transam race car so it's got some battlescars. Badass.

It's 19lbs (+weight of brackets)...If I get 2 of these things, that's got to save me at least 60lbs over the stockers. Will have a full weight comparison when I install it.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0673.jpg

sik68

02-22-2010, 09:04 PM

Hi everyone! I finally have an update for you! I installed that Pro2000 seat I picked up a while back. Nothing says "I mean business" better than a fixed back seat that requires acrobatics to get in and out of. Just sitting in this thing is an adrenalin rush. Here's the weight comparison I promised:

Seat from a '69 Camaro (yes my car is a 68)
Weight: 48lbs

Pro2000 Seat
Sparco Side Mounts
Sparco Sliders
Sparco Adapter Base
Total Weight: 30lbs

Weight Savings: 18lbs

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0822.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0827.jpg

If I do a fixed back seat on the the pasenger side as well, and remove the rear seat entirely, I'm estimating a weight loss total of
18+18+50 = 86lbs! Boo Ya, free speed and handling. Now to get rid of all those boxes in my car, haha.

Instead of using bolts to fasten the seat base to the floor, I followed what TitoJones did and used studs to the floor...no more poking around the carpet to locate the seat. I used 2" studs and loctite-d them in place...now removing/installing the seat takes about 2 minutes.

Next time I have a chance to work on the car, I will hopefully be getting the exhaust installed and then sifting through the clutch release issue. Getting there!

Thanks!
Steven

ElkyZO6

02-23-2010, 06:36 AM

Congrats!:thumbsup: I've really enjoyed watching this build. Keep the updates coming.

simbad's68

02-23-2010, 07:47 AM

Congrats!! It's good to see it the road!! Keep up the good work!

GHOSTDANCER

02-23-2010, 09:57 AM

"I CAN'T BELIEVE IT" :lol: Congratulations :thumbsup: :cheers: :cheers:

Warpath Pontiac

02-23-2010, 04:08 PM

Woah, i'm lovin this build. First drives are always the best.

Its cool to see more young guys with old cars (i'm 21 here and i've had my '69 'Bird for the past 5 years. Not exactly a corner carver yet. thats coming soon.) showing up in the hobby.

yamadog

02-28-2010, 09:14 PM

sik68

02-28-2010, 10:12 PM

Steven- What sliders are those? Universal or ? I looked on the spaco site and the don't show one specifically for a first gen....Thanks, Jason

Hey Jason, the sliders are a universal Sparco part. First you gotta determine whether the seat you want is side mount or bottom mount. If it's side, then you need to buy the sparco side mounts (which are cool because you can adjust how high you want the seat mounted, and also it's tilt). If the seat is bottom mount, you bolt it directly to the slider tracks. Then to adapt it to the car, you gotta buy the Sparco adapter base. All the bracketry adds up to almost 300 bucks, a big chunk of change that you don't necessarily think about at first. Thanks for checking in!

Maybe you can tell that with my last couple purchases, that lately I have been on a crusade to save weight on my car. Today I picked up a used fiberglass hood that came with hood locks as shown in the picture...me likey the weight savings, and now I can ditch the latch as well with something more secure. It's a gamble if it will fit my car well; I will install the pins and test fit it soon. Yes it's purple; I hope it doesn't clash with my rattle can primered car ;).

Fiberglass hood weight: 25.8 lbs

Does anyone know the weight of a steel cowl hood? I hope the weights savings is worth it!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Camaro/IMG_0859.jpg

Vegas69

02-28-2010, 10:30 PM

Thanks for sharing your first ride. Nice to see you twisting the wrenches yourself. :thumbsup: You probably saved about 25-35 lbs on that hood.

Rod P

03-01-2010, 04:20 PM

:thumbsup: wrench on my brother, wrench on! :yes:

Richio1

05-01-2011, 10:13 PM

So Steven... whats the latest with your car?

sik68

05-04-2011, 08:39 AM

So Steven... whats the latest with your car?

Hi Richio!

I am sorry to report no real updates on the car lately. I knew RTTC was the last time I would drive Trackday for a while, as this spring/summer is full of other commitments: wedding, honeymoon, her going back to school. All good things of course, but the car will be on the back burner until we figure out the new budget.

Driving the various events at RTTC helped me pinpoint the shortcomings of my current setup. My next few part purchases should make my car handle better.

:cheers:

senor_Camaro

06-02-2011, 12:00 PM

you should go LS, so much more tunning abilities than carbs. I ended up doing a full 360 on my build and said F the carbs.

skooli

11-23-2011, 10:17 PM

So far, this is my favorite build on the site. I love the DIY shade tree aspect. That car is going to mean so much more to you than some of these high dollar, boutique shop built cars mean to thier owners.

sik68

11-23-2011, 11:55 PM

Hey Brad, thank you very much! I really appreciate it. Shade tree is how I roll, and with only about 8 hours a month to work on my car, most of my effort just goes into making it reliable, let alone making it pretty.

I have some top secret plans in store come the new year in time for Run To The Coast, stay tuned!

Steven

Flash68

11-25-2011, 12:06 AM

I have some top secret plans in store come the new year in time for Run To The Coast, stay tuned!

Steven

S -- that sounds like some interesting stuff.... inquiring minds would like to know. :unibrow:

You gonna be needing a test n tune day for RTTC? Say.... Jan 23?

sik68

11-25-2011, 06:36 AM

S -- that sounds like some interesting stuff.... inquiring minds would like to know. :unibrow:

You gonna be needing a test n tune day for RTTC? Say.... Jan 23?

Dave you already know everything!

I'll figure it out asap if I can do the Jan date. I may just spectate depending... ;)

DIGI-TAILS

11-25-2011, 09:20 AM

Good Luck!!! :)

Flash68

11-25-2011, 10:56 AM

Dave you already know everything!

I'll figure it out asap if I can do the Jan date. I may just spectate depending... ;)

Haha ok, I thought there were more tricks up your sleeve. :D

Ok keep up posted on Jan. We'd love to see you there.

Track Junky

11-27-2011, 03:51 PM

Hey Steven, found this recently and they are in your neck of the woods..........

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http://www.lpiracing.com/images/sample/pc_button_add.gif Autopower Bolt In Roll Cage - Chevrolet Camaro - 83450

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Track Junky

11-27-2011, 09:14 PM

Here's some pic's of the Auto Power roll cage installed. It is a bolt together but I had mine welded.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts460.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts459.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts458.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts457.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts456.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts455.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts454.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts453.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts452.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts451.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts450.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Roll%20cage%20Base%20Mounts/Rollcagebasemounts449.jpg

sik68

11-27-2011, 10:11 PM

Vegas69

11-27-2011, 10:19 PM

It ain't protouring until it has a sub box. :lol:

Flash68

11-27-2011, 11:02 PM

BTW, you know you're only some carpet and a dash pad from being a pro touring car right? :)

yeah, don't forget the new pistons to bring that compression down. :D

intocarss

11-27-2011, 11:34 PM

yeah, don't forget the new pistons to bring that compression down. :D

Pop up pistons and Muncies FTW

Track Junky

11-28-2011, 11:49 AM

Gaetano thanks! Those pictures help a lot and that is a pretty darn good deal price wise. I will mull it over until tax refund time....

BTW, you know you're only some carpet and a dash pad from being a pro touring car right? :)

Dash pad and carpet is in the works. RTTC will be sorta like dressing up for some sort of Dance engagement :lol:

It ain't protouring until it has a sub box. :lol:

I can fake that one :lol:

yeah, don't forget the new pistons to bring that compression down. :D

Jerry can help you answer that one. Sticking to the roots and keeeping it old school style :thumbsup:

Pop up pistons and Muncies FTW

sik68

03-14-2012, 09:42 PM

Hey hey thanks everybody. Now that I've had the time to digest everything from RTTC, there are some interesting things to report

Results
Road Course 1:47.5
Speed Stop/Slalom 25.035
Auto X 44.574

I am definitely happy with my results, all things considered. It's pretty weird that my road course time is a lot better than my autox/speed stop times; I cannot really isolate why this happened, other than that I felt comfortable with the car on the road course and felt like we were fighting on the other events.

Knockback & Knockback Springs: I don't know of many people that have used these and written a review, so I decided to be the guinea pig and put some information out there. Each spring is 5.5lbs fully compressed, and I decided to install two of them behind the piston of my rear calipers. Theoretically, the springs push the piston, keeping the pads in slight contact with the rotor at all times. However, as soon as I popped the piston out of the caliper I knew that in practice these weren't going to do a darn thing. The theory is nice, but the o-ring in the caliper causes way too much drag with the piston to make it effective. The piston doesn't move with 11lbs of force, nor would I suspect it would with 20 or 30lbs. So, they proved to be pointless at installation, and even moreso on the track. My knockback has been degrading for a while now, as I am pumping the pedal constantly during autox, and 2-3 times before each road course corner just to get some bite. Pretty distracting.
Solution? I really need to tear down the rear end and probably replace some key components, whether its the axle bearings or the housing itself...it's something I shouldn't be battling with.

R-Comp Tires I wanted to try a different set of tires for this event. Figuring that the car was running on 300tw last year, I decided on 100tw R888's...at least I would be averaging 200. Being on a budget and out there more for experimenting, I scored some 255/40/17 fronts and 275/40/17 rears with $70 total invested into the set. Needless to say, they were pretty well used up to begin with. It was a great lesson in handling vs. grip.

Handling The car handled so much better. R888's have really stiff sidewalls compared to my Goodyears, so it ratcheted the steering feel and overall spring rates up by a HUGE margin. The car felt so much more alive. And going from 245GY to 255Toyo was actually over an inch of width to the pavement so the car felt more balanced. From the video, you can see that coming out of the turns the car was pretty neutral.

Grip Grip was a different story, and a great lesson in heat cycled tires. Outright, I don't think the grip level was that much greater than my Goodyears. I was still breaking traction in a straight line up to the same speeds as before, so that was a big indicator that I was about the same in grip. However, the Toyos seemed to like heat a lot more...they got progressively stickier lap after lap, whereas the Goodyears would quickly get slick.
If I had to do it all over again for $70, I'd still choose the used Toyo's over the Goodyears. Next time I have $1000 for a set of tires, I will buy a new set, something that gets me on the official results list.

Reliability It seemed to be a war of attrition out there this weekend, a reminder that what we are doing is hard on our cars. I am very happy to report that my car just kept going all weekend. Vitals were good thankfully. Good oil pan, oil cooler, accumulator, and 10W40 Redline is all it takes to make an engine happy! The TKO has a bit of a problem shifting at high rpm, but I just learned to be patient and wait for it to double-click before letting the clutch out.

People It was the people that made this event so great. I met and hung out with a lot of gearheads with great cars and great personalities. Big shout out to guys of the Road Touring Customs, they're a really cool crew...you heard it here first, they are a force to be reckoned with in the near future. John, Aaron, Erich, Todd, Dave, Carl it was good hanging with you guys for however short it was.

Here's a video from Friday's road course, putting down the power the best I could. I think I run about a 1:51, the 1:47.5 came Saturday.

4qwcqPWndDo

http://youtu.be/4qwcqPWndDo

Until next time!

Vegas69

03-14-2012, 09:59 PM

Flash68

03-14-2012, 10:42 PM

Definitely a solid time on the road course brother... and glad your car held together great. Was it the rear main leaking that we talked about? You gonna rip into that at all or leave it for now?

Yeah dude, was hoping to hang more but sh!t gets kinda hectic down there especially when in different groups.

Nice report -- sounds like you are liking the R comps now... at least maybe ones with tread left. :D

sik68

03-15-2012, 08:57 AM

That speed stop time can't be right. You weren't that far behind me when we raced. Maybe a second or two. I'd say more like high 22's or low 23's. If you have a video, use a stop watch. Your road course time is super solid! Congrats... R888's do heat cycle out and they aren't great cold. I don't think they are a very good autocross tire contrary to popular belief. They like heat, get a new set and wait until about 10 minutes into a road course session. :thumbsup: Anyway, you and Jon Rasmussen are in my top two of doing the most with the least. Look forward to seeing you in Buttonwillow this year.

I've never tried launching my car before, so it took me at least a dozen runs to figure it out. It started to feel best doing a 2nd gear launch @4000rpm, with a lot of clutch slip...never got out of the hole super clean but I was getting close! Finch said he is still getting more numbers in, so hopefully you're right! I saw on the board my best time was 23.07, exactly like you're saying.

I wore the R888's completely bald front/rear...they look like slicks now. I will probably go with NT05's next.

Kip with the 335i was making me feel especially slow, killing most everybody. Ended up with 21.1 best time.

Jon and I are playing Forza these days, honing our skills to prepare for the primer vs. painted carpocalypse.

Definitely a solid time on the road course brother... and glad your car held together great. Was it the rear main leaking that we talked about? You gonna rip into that at all or leave it for now?

Yeah dude, was hoping to hang more but sh!t gets kinda hectic down there especially when in different groups.

Nice report -- sounds like you are liking the R comps now... at least maybe ones with tread left. :D

Thanks Dave for the continued encouragement as well. The car doesn't drip a drop when running/idling...it's only when I turn the car off and the pan fills up do I get 2 or 3 drops when the oil is hot. When the oil is cold and thick, it doesn't leak. I hate it because engines shouldn't leak period, but everyone I show it to (including you) says it's normal and to suck it up and accept it! HAHA.

Well I thought I was going to park the car, but my road course time has me all pumped up again, haha. In my many thoughts, I will probably just fix the knockback for good, change the oil, and keep on driving!

Flash68

03-15-2012, 11:35 AM

Jon and I are playing Forza these days, honing our skills to prepare for the primer vs. painted carpocalypse.

Thanks Dave for the continued encouragement as well. The car doesn't drip a drop when running/idling...it's only when I turn the car off and the pan fills up do I get 2 or 3 drops when the oil is hot. When the oil is cold and thick, it doesn't leak. I hate it because engines shouldn't leak period, but everyone I show it to (including you) says it's normal and to suck it up and accept it! HAHA.

Well I thought I was going to park the car, but my road course time has me all pumped up again, haha. In my many thoughts, I will probably just fix the knockback for good, change the oil, and keep on driving!

primer vs. painted carpocalypse --- :lol:

Yeah these old Gen1's sure do have the propensity to leak more than the LS.. but we still love em. :D

Keep on driving - I like it! :thumbsup:

intocarss

03-15-2012, 12:04 PM

We have a saying............. "It ain't fast unless she leaks a little"

sik68

03-16-2012, 12:45 PM

We have a saying............. "It ain't fast unless she leaks a little"

Haha, good to know! I will have to use that when the tech guys are giving me a hard time :cheers:

Ron in SoCal

03-16-2012, 01:39 PM

Haha, good to know! I will have to use that when the tech guys are giving me a hard time :cheers:

Haha Steven. I let you slide this time...:D

sik68

03-16-2012, 02:33 PM

Haha Steven. I let you slide this time...:D

:bow:

I called my engine builder and they say "you probably just filled it 1qt too high" :rolleyes:

Doing research on which rear-end to buy... something semi-floater, aka pressed-on tapered roller axle bearing. The more I think about it, C-clips are pretty sketchy, particularly on a road course.

Vegas69

03-16-2012, 03:14 PM

sik68

03-16-2012, 03:32 PM

I'd conveniently lose that engine builders number. He's clearly not the brighest bulb. You may not be evacuating quite enough crankcase pressure causing your rear main seal to tinkle.

A tapered bearing will not prevent knock back. :unibrow:

Noted on all counts! I am done with them for sure.

I have a driver side breather and passenger side PCV...maybe I'll add another breather or change the PCV. That would be an easy fix thanks.

I hear you on the knock back; I have C5 floating calipers so that's half the battle...I am digging up all the threads including your videos of you playing with your rear end. I will post a measurement video too...the end play is ridiculous. It's going to get fixed before I drive the car again. I'm thinking Moser 12 bolt with ford ends :unibrow: and stepping down from 3.73 to 3.42 will get me another 10mph in 3rd which I will appreciate on the lower speed tracks.

Vegas69

03-16-2012, 03:43 PM

One breather isn't enough for road racing. That PCV is useless under low vacuum conditions. If you want to retain a functional PCV on the street, you will need to put both breathers on the opposite side. Otherwise, it will not evacuate your crankcase. You want it to pull fresh air across the engine not through the same valve cover.

With a tapered bearing and floating caliper, you will be fine.

Good luck finding that video. ha ha

Sieg

03-16-2012, 08:35 PM

I am digging up all the threads including your videos of you playing with your rear end.
:_paranoid

Flash68

03-16-2012, 11:33 PM

:bow:

I called my engine builder and they say "you probably just filled it 1qt too high" :rolleyes:

Let's share some ideas on engine builders... I have a 3 fairly local guys I have contacted or will contact about my engine work coming soon.

And no their last name is not Pettis. :lol:

Vegas69

03-16-2012, 11:37 PM

You can lead a horse to water......

Flash68

05-22-2012, 12:55 AM

It's been too long since an update... spill it. :D

sik68

05-22-2012, 09:43 AM

It's been too long since an update... spill it. :D

:lol: Not much to report, but I'll do the best I can to make my progress sound significant.

1) Knockback
I measured 0.032" end play in each of my axles. It feels like a lot of movement, and it looks like a lot of movement, so I have been convinced that the end play is the source of my horrid necessity to pump the pedal 2-3x before every turn (autocrossing in this car laughable). Randy's Ring & Pinion basically laughed me off the phone when I asked them if 0.032" is the problem...but oh well, trial and error. Anyways, you all know the deal about how annoying knockback is, so my goal is to solve the problem and I don't mind if it's by process of elimination. Starting simple, I did knockback springs...those didn't work worth a damn so on to the next easiest thing, thicker c-clips.

I spent a LOT of time trying to track down thicker c-clips. Finally found a pair through TCE (http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/) that they custom make in 0.175" width. This leaves me with a more acceptable 0.007" end play. I hope this fixes it, or it's back to the drawing board. I will get them in and post back...may not be for a while though because...

2) I Found a Chunk of Metal In Oil
Why is it everyone is having motor problems right now? It's a piece of steel, about the size of a grain of rice, and looks like casting. My best guess is that it is a piece of cam lobe that was fractured off. Last year at Buttonwillow when I found the broken rocker stud, I am figuring that the loose lash which cause the stud to break, was also hammering the solid roller lifter hard on the cam. Looks like I'm pulling the engine. Puts me in serious jeopardy for track time @ Buttonwillow 2012 but we'll see... either way I'll be down there! :captain:

Vegas69

05-22-2012, 09:59 AM

It could be a valve spring tip as well and that's not a problem.

Matt@BOS

05-22-2012, 10:02 AM

Well, you can take it apart now, but there's no guarantee you'll be ready for Buttonwillow, or you can take it to Buttonwillow, where it might take itself apart for you. Decisions, decisions :unibrow:

I'm curious if the thicker C-clips work. I heard that DSE tested all of their bearings on their test cars to make sure there was no more than .007" end play.

Matt

Flash68

05-22-2012, 10:09 AM

I hope your c-clip solution works for you, because then that makes all these guys with their expensive full floaters and floating calipers look like they overpaid. :D

Yeah these motors are barkin back at a lot of us here lately.... hope it's minor for ya but if not, it's a great opportunity for added power. :unibrow:

Maybe half of us committed for BW in Sept will be there without a car. :lol:

Matt@BOS

05-22-2012, 10:34 AM

You guys better be there. I don't care if you need to get a rental car. Hell, maybe we should all just rent v6 Camaros or Mustangs. We could have our own spec racing series. Time to find out if Gaetano is as good as he claims!

Matt

Flash68

05-22-2012, 11:27 AM

That's actually a good idea.

Maybe my Police Interceptor would be fun to track. :_paranoid

gerno

05-22-2012, 12:15 PM

Assuming I don't catch the same bug many of you have recently I'm planning to head to ButtonWillow from Sac in Sept and have lots of room in the truck for passengers. Should charge a fair for the trip??

Once down there you can rent some cars but don't forget the insurance...... Hertz typically has a yellow and black Vette you can rent that should be lots of fun. Reminds me of the scene from Days of Thunder on the beach.

Maybe I should also hold off on my registration and payment for the event. I know if Dave keeps upgrading he will want to sell his entry

Steve

Flash68

05-22-2012, 12:16 PM

Maybe I should also hold off on my registration and payment for the event. I know if Dave keeps upgrading he will want to sell his entry

Steve

:lol: You know me too well! I sell more track day registrations than I use! I still have a credit at Big Willow.

:willy:

sik68

05-25-2012, 01:55 PM

Thanks all!

Todd, that's a good idea on the possibility of a valve spring tip, hadn't thought of that so that's good place to start before I go ripping everything out.

Matt & all I will let you know what I find on the c-clips. I would be so stoked if they mitigate the knockback issue. I read a post from David Pozzi a long time ago about the Trans-Am cars putting valve spring shims against the c-clips to shim out end play....so it must count for something.

sik68

01-26-2013, 01:29 PM

Hey guys!

I haven't touched my car since RTTC last year... Decided to park the car to regroup and divert my efforts into "infrastructure". That is, all the other things that need to be right when having a track car.

My tow vehicle, '89 Dodge D250 Cummins, was in need of some TLC.

Put new wheels and tires on the truck and just got it painted. Went from this

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/Dodge%20Truck/2012-11-08_14-33-36_925.jpg

To this!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/P1040767_zpsdf45a09d.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/P1040765_zps752fabb8.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/P1040771_zpsdd3a52d6.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/P1040769_zps10ad5edf.jpg

I am stoked! It's a real dark grey with a lot of metal flake.

Now that's out of the way, back to the Camaro!

Thanks,
Steven

214Chevy

01-26-2013, 02:47 PM

You did a damn nice job on the truck. That's gonna be one sweet tow rig!

Flash68

01-26-2013, 06:06 PM

Dude, that truck looks stellar. Great job.

Funny how the truck got painted and the Camaro didn't huh. Priorities? Nahh. :poke:

Ok now what's the plan for the Camaro.... I know you've been putting a thought out game plan together. One that will eventually be deviated from right? :lol:

Vegas69

01-26-2013, 08:37 PM

Good looking truck but you need to get your ass in gear on that race car. :D

Track Junky

01-26-2013, 09:27 PM

A waste of good race car money.......that had to be the wifes idea

Flash68

01-27-2013, 12:07 AM

A waste of good race car money.......that had to be the wifes idea

:poke: :bitchslap:

sik68

01-27-2013, 08:45 AM

Thanks guys! Engine refresh and cage+cell is the 2013 goal. :G-Dub:

A waste of good race car money.......that had to be the wifes idea

LOL no comment. Let's just say she doesn't think primer is a color.

Track Junky

01-27-2013, 10:24 AM

Just ribbin' ya buddy. Truck looks great. Good hearing from you.....hope to see you back out soon.:thumbsup:

intocarss

01-27-2013, 05:11 PM

Thanks all!

Matt & all I will let you know what I find on the c-clips. I would be so stoked if they mitigate the knockback issue. I read a post from David Pozzi a long time ago about the Trans-Am cars putting valve spring shims against the c-clips to shim out end play....so it must count for something. I searched but couldn't find that post from D Pozzi. Do you happen to have a link to that? I got 0.25 play

Sieg

01-27-2013, 05:24 PM

LOL no comment. Let's just say she doesn't think primer is a color.
Huh? It's the color of the sky............8 months out of the year in Oregon. :D

Good job on the truck, not money you wanted to spend but it needed to be done. :thumbsup:

sik68

01-27-2013, 07:27 PM

I searched but couldn't find that post from D Pozzi. Do you happen to have a link to that? I got 0.25 play

It was probably on camaros.net. If I don't find it first....

intocarss

01-27-2013, 10:07 PM

It was probably on camaros.net. If I don't find it first....

Thanks. I think I found it

http://www.camaros.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-27943.html

Your problem might be excessive end play in the axles. The same problem happens with JL8 conversions.
Try shimming behind the C clips with a spacer. I've heard a valve spring spacer with a little filing will work well.
Get the end play close to zero. If you go too tight it may affect the positraction function.
What size are the rotors in dia and width?
David

Yes, put the spacer between the side gear and the C clip. You will need around .015" to .030" thick shims.
There used to be thicker C clips to do this but I don't think they are available anymore.
If you go too thick you may prevent release of the positraction.
Non posi rears are looser than the posi type, which would knock the caliper pistons back even farther.
David