Advice..Best Big Block for 1969 Chevelle

[DHARROD]

I have a friend that currently has a 427 in his 69 Chevelle. It is an "old school" set-up to get the HP. It has 12:1 compression and more or less has to run on racing fuel. It has a more radical cam from what I can tell. For him it doesn't have enough HP/TQ and he doesn't want to tear into it as it is a solid motor in its own right. Any ways .. he's ready to sell it and by another big-block. This weekend I'll be working to get pictures and get it on craigslist and ebay - once its sold he'll be looking to have another one on the way.
He indicates he's willing to spend 12-13K and is looking at the 572 GM and Merlin 540 set ups. This community seams to be on the leading edge and I believe many of you may have experience and valid recommendations on what you would and would not do. (i.e. which engine to buy) I don't believe he'll ever drag it .. however I think he'll burn the hell out of the tires every chance he gets to show off. I think he wants to stay with something that is carborated (not FI, not turbo'd, no juice).
So for an A-body car what would you recommend. He/I live in Raleigh North Carolina area.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, we just finished installing a couple all aluminum 572 CI / 750 HP monsters in 2 cars. A 67 Chevelle SS 396 and a 57 Chevy 2 door hardtop. The 572 causes a couple of extra problems over a normal standard deck motor due to deck height and stroke. The deck height causes the need for special headers, also raises the over all height of the engine. The stroke creates a big problem because it requires a 5" deep pan which caused us to have to notch both oil pans (Chevelle had to have tie rod notches made into the pan) and notch the frame crossmembers on each car. We had to run a 2" cowl hood on the Chevelle and had to make custom mushroom air cleaners for both cars to keep the motors under the hood.. So there is a lot more fabrication then say a 540CI motor.

Unless you have a shop and can do the fab work, I would recomend a World Class 540CI from Bill Mitchell. I use and sell a lot of these motors, and they make the power, and are priced well within your budget. And a 540 Bill Mitchell motor will stomp a mud hole in a GM 572.

You can see a few pics of the Chevelle and 57 over at GPSuperStore.com in the Prodigy Customs Projects section. The 57 is not 100% finished yet and did it's maiden voyage today. The 67 is kicking ass around town for a couple months now.

I will be adding a lot of pictures in the next few days. We did a bunch more then just motor installs on both cars.

http://www.gpsuperstore.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15

[tndude]

Looks good Frank. For a guy thats learning here, what does the 540 typically cost. I understand there are variable costs depending on the build but whats a ballpark?

[jski67]

First let me say that I was hesitant to post this in respect to Frank being
a dealer...but I've read a lot of negative things about World crate motors in the last couple years, especially their customer service. Do a search in the Performance section of Team Chevelle.com.

In fairness, I'd say 25% of the issues are people picking the biggest motor out of the catalog when they really have no knowledge of the tuning or maintenance requirements of (for example) a large, stroked solid roller big block.

But I have read enough about poor clearances, shoddy assembly and the wrong parts being installed that I would be very careful about inspecting what I was purchasing from them.

Most people don't have any problems with the quality of their parts...blocks, heads, etc...just the assemblies.

That being said, they have been around a long time and I'm sure they have thousands of happy customers. All the more reason to buy your engine through a reputable dealer (like Frank) that can watch your back in case you have any problems. :thumbsup:


Hey, I think that was a pretty darn good job of riding the fence between helping a fellow enthusiast and not pi$$ing off a valued sponsor. Maybe I should run for office...lol

Jason

[Mizfit]

Just to toss out another option we have 502 crate motors in the sponsor section on discount right now. Built and ready to rock with warrenty
:thumbsup:

Taylor

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have seen those problems talked about also, but have not had that experience. I wish I could say they sent me ringers because of my presence in the universe, but I sincerely doubt that is the case. What I do think is anyone doing a lot of business, especially the biggest selling the most, of any product, will have mistakes and haunting's. I also know the one un happy customer (weather legitimate or not) can rally the troops much more then the 1000s of happy customers that rarely say anything.

Let's face it, you do a post on a forum and say:

"I got my Bill Mitchell motor in and running and I love it"

The post will be followed with a few, That's nice, congratulations, and die after 5 responses.

Now go on and say

" I got my Bill Mitchell motor in and those bastards won't. bla. bla. bla, Death to those SOBs, Bla, bla, bla......................"

and you will get a 1000 fired up angry Indians ready to ponce.

I went to my first business seminar when I was a young man in 1985. One of the key things I picked up was about customer service and satisfaction. The speaker had a interesting statistic, (relevant to 1987) I found very interesting then, and more interesting now.

"For everyone 1 customer you please with service, that customer may, could, MIGHT, tell one person. That was a surveyed fact

:Hey Bill, I got a great oil change at Frank's shop today, man it was the best oil change I ever had, you should try it"

Now Bill friend will forget about the oil change and go on with his day, and while happy about Bill's good experience, it will be forgotten in 10 seconds. Maybe Bill's friend will remember some day when the family truckster is ready for a oil change, maybe not.

But for everyone customer you piss off, he will tell 17 people:

"That f--kin Frank, That A hole did a oil change on my car, he did this, and he did that, bla, bla bla, I can't believe it..............."

And that customer will bitch all day to everyone he see's. And those customers friends he is bitching to, Well, Bill will be the water cooler subject of the day. Bill's freinds will be:

Did you hear what happened to Bill and his oil change, he got screwed, bla, bla, bla............ all day to more people.

Fast forward to 2007, and the invention of Al Gores Internet! Today, someone gets good service, they make a post on a forum:

"I got a great oil change at Frank's shop today, man it was the best oil change I ever had, you should try it"

The post will be followed by a few, that's good, thanks for the lead, good for you,...........................

But the pissed off customer goes on the forum and now he goes to Billions of people (not the 17 in 1987) in one press of the send key, and here come the 1000s of fired up angry Indians.


So, I am not saying our friends that are bitching about Bill Mitchell motors do not have legit problems and complaints, they might very well. I am not saying that Bill Mitchell may not have handled the problems properly, or to the customers satisfaction, they may very well have not. Since I was not involved, I can speak on any of that. But this I know for sure,

I know a bunch of angry fired up Indians when I see them!

I also know for the amount of unsatisfied post there are, that there are 1000s of happy customers that are saying nothing.


The biggest problem we have had is with the carbs they use. It has taken some time to dial in the AED carbs. They always are great at idle and wide open throttle, but almost always screwed up at cruise. Generally nothing air bleeds won't take care of, but a issue non the less. And I guess in Mitchell's defense they cannot really do drive ability testing on the dyno. We have had one other case of a aluminum small block seaping oil past the head bolts, but it appears resealing the studs cured this problem. Out of a half dozen installed and torturer ed (Prodigy Style, which means running the snot out of them), we have had NO failures. We have sold another dozen or so with no issues reported.

In closing, if I experianced repeated failures with any products we sell, I would drop them instantly, which I did with a unmentioned product last week.

[DHARROD]

So far there appears to be indication that the 572 GM will be a tight fit and adjustments will have to be made (aren't there two versions of the 572?). Some would consider a 540 Merlin via Bill Mitchell an option because it is more of a drop in and with attention to the carburator it may actually give you a little more performance. Certainly the 502 is out there but my guess is if you've gotten the wife's approval to get an upgrade you'll want to maximize even beyond this solid performer. I think the warranty is good .. but I see with a Bill Mitchell you have have it installed by an approved shop. I DO appreaciate all of the help guys .. I'm listening and doing further searching based on your feed back. What about Nelson Racing Engines ... I didn't see prices. I know there's not a right answer and a lot of "it depends" so please keep the opinions and suggestions comming.

[rocketman]

632 the new 502,a 572 or 632,a 555 makes good power too

[Tony@AirRideTech]

When Bret granaded the 2 or 3 motor in the mustang over at Road Atlanta we were caught in a bind with the Power Tour autocross coming up so we got one of the Mitchell motors and threw it in there....... From this picture from the nashvill autocross.... I think it shows that it runs pretty OK...... :_paranoid http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17924&d=1183500120

[buickfunnycar.com]

When Bret granaded the 2 or 3 motor in the mustang over at Road Atlanta we were caught in a bind with the Power Tour autocross coming up so we got one of the Mitchell motors and threw it in there....... From this picture from the nashvill autocross.... I think it shows that it runs pretty OK...... :_paranoid http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17924&d=1183500120

Holy chassis-twist Batman!

[tones2SS]

When, AND THAT"S A BIG WHEN, I get my project started, I would like to drop a 572 crate motor into it. The 620HP that runs on pump gas. It will either be a '69 Chevelle SS or '69 Camaro SS.
Just last week I had the pleasure of hearing one of these beasts start up and idle and revved, MY JAW HIT THE GROUND!!!!! Amazing. Sounded like it could keeping pulling all through the RPM range. I am no engine expert or mechanic by any stretch, but this thing sounded like it could do the job and then some!!!:hail: :hail: :thumbsup:
Has he thought about a 502 crate motor?!!?

[DHARROD]

My buddy went with a builder in Colorado Springs - with the bore/stroke he'll end up with a 496. The HP & TQ should both exceed 600 (it will be carborated). As soon as it arrives I'll post some pictures and the general specs - I get to help pull the old and put in the new. My buddy chatted with him on the phone and called serval references who all spoke highly of the builder and his engines. You can find some of his engines on ebay under the seller ... vortecpro.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZvortecpro