GM G-Body Front suspension

[montessaj]

I'm new to lateral-g.net and I was just looking for some advice with my project car. I have a 1983 Monte Carlo SS, and I am looking to build a good streetable ride that handles and brakes just as good as it is fast in a straight line. Specifically I was looking for info or advice on front suspension. I have been bouncing around some ideas of tubular control arms, but are tubular control arms good for the street? Specifically I was looking at Spohn performance uppers and lowers with poly bushings. Secondly, should I got with Q-A1 Coilovers or just go with hotchkis front springs and bilstein shocks. I have already purchase 2" drop spindles and I will also be adding baer brakes to the front. I want to keep this thing streetable I plan on driving it on the weekends and occasionally around town. But I will also be attending the Hot Rod Power Tour in June. It will be mostly a street car.
Any insight would be greatly apperciated.

Andy

[XcYZ]

Hi Andy, welcome aboard.

There's no problems with tubular control arms as long as you trust the company that produces them. The thing I'm not wild about is the poly bushings, they like to squeak after some time in the car. What else does Spohn offer for bushings?

[moorepwr]

Originally Posted by montessaj

I'm new to lateral-g.net and I was just looking for some advice with my project car. I have a 1983 Monte Carlo SS, and I am looking to build a good streetable ride that handles and brakes just as good as it is fast in a straight line. Specifically I was looking for info or advice on front suspension. I have been bouncing around some ideas of tubular control arms, but are tubular control arms good for the street? Specifically I was looking at Spohn performance uppers and lowers with poly bushings. Secondly, should I got with Q-A1 Coilovers or just go with hotchkis front springs and bilstein shocks. I have already purchase 2" drop spindles and I will also be adding baer brakes to the front. I want to keep this thing streetable I plan on driving it on the weekends and occasionally around town. But I will also be attending the Hot Rod Power Tour in June. It will be mostly a street car.
Any insight would be greatly apperciated.

Andy

Hi Andy! I'm new here too, but I had a Monte Carlo for 7 years and asked the same thing a bunch. One thing you might want to try is subscribing to the Monte Carlo Mailing List. http://www.monte-list.nu/

My Personal recommendation would be to use Savitske Classic and Custom's AFX street comp kit:
http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm#streetcompafx

You'll get much better handling and braking and it's reasonable. I did the global west/del-a-lum swap with B-body spindles and 3rd Gen Camaro 1LE rotors. I was happy with it, but this one is waaay better from what I can tell. And you won't have the fun bumpsteer to surprise you. With the SC&C kit, you can use stock C5 brake parts (you can buy at Otterzone), so you get new spindles, brakes, and a tubular upper control arm for a couple hundred more than just the Baer Brakes. It also gives you almost another inch of drop.

To lower the front a little more, I'd get some stiffer springs and use them shorter:
http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/springs.shtml

I ran the Moog 5662 springs with half a coil cut:


The intention was to cut another 1/2 to full coil when I got the 16" GTA wheels installed, and possibly find the hollow 34mm sway bar from a Camaro.

Even with the monster 706 lb-in springs, the car rode great, thanks to the Bilstein shocks and Del-a-lum bushings in the tubular control arms.

Good luck, they're fun cars to have.

[montessaj]

Thanks for all the help guys, I sure do appreciate it. This was my first car when I turned 14 I got it for mowing some guys huge lawn all summer long. I have done basic stuff, paint, new engine trans, wheels and tires. Now I'm giving it a facelift. Soo any info is appreciated. XcYZ---SPohn offers poly bushings and spherical. I don't know much about bushings but spherical seem too harsh for the street. I know poly will squeak, but they do have grease fittings on all the bushings you think that will help to keep them from squeaking? I already ordered Boxed upper and lower control arms from UMI for the back and some .8 inch drop springs. I plan on going with 17" centerline retro wheels. 17X8 on the front w// 4.5 BS and 235/45/17 tires...on the rear im going with 17X9.5in w/ 5 BS and 275/40/17. I also have belltech drop spindles for the front. Suspension and all of that is really new to me seeing as how I've never done this stuff before. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Marcus SC&C]

Sounds like you`ve already bought about half of the front end parts,that`ll complicate things a bit but we`ll take a stab at it anyway. G bodys such as Montes have a number of geometry problems in the front end,backward camber curves,much too low roll center and buku bumpsteer among them. Tubular arms can be a nice addition to the car but they`re incapable of fixing any of those issues. They CAN be fixed though,either with AFX tall spindle or the proper application of tall ball joints to alter the geometry. Once the geometry has been fixed,that`s where the tubular arms really come into their own because they can be made to compliment the new geometry with length,offset and ball joint mounting angles different than stock. Combine that with the proper spring and shock rates and a good performance alignment and you`ll have a totally transformed car. The drop spindles you already have unfortunately are the answer to a question no one asked. Their claim to fame is that they lower the car without altering the stock geometry or raising the spring rates. Fact of the matter is that the stock front end geometry is lousy and is helped quite a bit by lowering it with springs and as you lower a car you want more spring rate both for better handling and to keep the headers from getting to friendly with the pavement. I don`t recomend poly bushings for most uses. They tend to squeak (even greasable ones) and have stiction and cold flow issues. They work okay in a few applications but they`re few and far between. If you like the Spohn arms opt for the delrin bushing option. There is also a new series of SPC Performance tubular lowers with delrin bushings,improved geometry,adj. ride height (even with conventional springs!) etc. that will be on our site shortly. We`ll also be doing our tall ball joint StreetComp packages with the Spohn upper A arms. We worked with them on the development of the tall spindle version of those arms. This is a lot of info to cover in a small internet post,feel free to give us a call and take advantage of our Suspension Counseling Service. Mark SC&C

[montessaj]

Originally Posted by Marcus SC&C

Sounds like you`ve already bought about half of the front end parts,that`ll complicate things a bit but we`ll take a stab at it anyway. G bodys such as Montes have a number of geometry problems in the front end,backward camber curves,much too low roll center and buku bumpsteer among them. Tubular arms can be a nice addition to the car but they`re incapable of fixing any of those issues. They CAN be fixed though,either with AFX tall spindle or the proper application of tall ball joints to alter the geometry. Once the geometry has been fixed,that`s where the tubular arms really come into their own because they can be made to compliment the new geometry with length,offset and ball joint mounting angles different than stock. Combine that with the proper spring and shock rates and a good performance alignment and you`ll have a totally transformed car. The drop spindles you already have unfortunately are the answer to a question no one asked. Their claim to fame is that they lower the car without altering the stock geometry or raising the spring rates. Fact of the matter is that the stock front end geometry is lousy and is helped quite a bit by lowering it with springs and as you lower a car you want more spring rate both for better handling and to keep the headers from getting to friendly with the pavement. I don`t recomend poly bushings for most uses. They tend to squeak (even greasable ones) and have stiction and cold flow issues. They work okay in a few applications but they`re few and far between. If you like the Spohn arms opt for the delrin bushing option. There is also a new series of SPC Performance tubular lowers with delrin bushings,improved geometry,adj. ride height (even with conventional springs!) etc. that will be on our site shortly. We`ll also be doing our tall ball joint StreetComp packages with the Spohn upper A arms. We worked with them on the development of the tall spindle version of those arms. This is a lot of info to cover in a small internet post,feel free to give us a call and take advantage of our Suspension Counseling Service. Mark SC&C

Mark, I sure do appreciate all of the help. Your suggestions sound great, hopefully I will be able to finish this thing before I head out on the Hot Rod Power Tour in June.

[montessaj]

Mark,
I went and looked at SC&C, I just want to say thank you for having soo much g-body stuff. How hard is it to adapt those afx spindles to the Monte Carlo?

[olds87]

I got them for my car (87 cutlass), but not on the car yet. Still gathering parts. Call Mark at SC&C, he you help out and that where I got them from. Really a cool guy to talk with about G-body cars.

[Marcus SC&C]

No adapting at all to put AFX tall aluminum spindles on a G body. We have a complete package called StreetComp-AFX that uses stock ball joints,tie rod ends,even stock lower arms if you like. This one uses some of our G-5 steering technology and improves the ackerman for crisper turn in,improves the steering ratio and makes room for more backspacing (up to 5") for an improves scrub radius too. We`re pretty proud of this one. Mark SC&C

[deuce_454]

I have a set of ATS spindles on my 79 malibu https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=12781 and they just bolt right in.. I bought global west arms as adjustable ones are very illegal over here.. but if i werent hampered by such stuff i would definately have gotten everything from marcus, especially with the new lower arm.. as i understand its the first lower arm to be changed geomerty wise from stock.. this keeps the wheel centered in the arch as caster is increased, neat product that i will have to have soon... (and marcus... where is my watts-link??? )

but the ATS spindles are a no brainer.. the cheaper brakes OEM C5 almost pay for the spindles in reduced cost alone.. QA1's are a junk product in my humble oppinion... the settings drift, they change rates when they get hot, and no two shocks adjust alike, which is a problem sa ypu have them on both sides of the car.... bilsteins or even better Alston Chassisworks...