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  #1  
Unread 09-24-2006, 01:09 AM
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novanutcase novanutcase is offline
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Default Corner Carvers

Just had GREAT FUN flamin' and gettin' flamed at corner carvers! NO...Really!!! It's intersting to see how little it takes to get them all riled up over there. Too Funny! Whats weird to me is that they waste more time flaming then anything else. I will say though that when someone intelligent was able to wedge a piece of useful info it was good info!
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Unread 09-24-2006, 09:36 AM
black2002ls black2002ls is offline
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yeah. I stopped posting over there. After searching there is some GREAT information. But slip and re-post something and they lay into you like nothing else. do you have alink to the site. I like to do searches every now and then, but I've lost my link.
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  #3  
Unread 09-24-2006, 10:04 AM
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Derek69SS Derek69SS is offline
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www.corner-carvers.com

Seems to me if you read and understand their posting rules for newbies, you'd understand they don't like BS. I'm a member, but have never yet posted... most anything I could ever think of asking has been posted and reposted a dozen times.

I can look past the attitudes and take it for what it's worth - an incredible ammount of excellent tech info.
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Unread 09-24-2006, 01:08 PM
JohnnyR JohnnyR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novanutcase
Just had GREAT FUN flamin' and gettin' flamed at corner carvers! NO...Really!!! It's intersting to see how little it takes to get them all riled up over there. Too Funny! Whats weird to me is that they waste more time flaming then anything else. I will say though that when someone intelligent was able to wedge a piece of useful info it was good info!
I just checked out said thread. Mean69's post was spot on. I've been lurking in the shadows and it seems that you have been asking the same question over and over again. It also seems that you are dead set on doing a C-5 suspension based on its bling factor. Maybe you need to make a choice on which suspension you want to work with, and start cutting and welding. With the Nova's compact dimensions, your desire for "dished" wheels and a LOW ride height, you are going to have to make some compromises. You have to prioritize what is important to you. Is it stance? Pulling max g's? Fitting the widest wheels on there? Once you have honestly answered those questions, you may start looking at other options besides C-5. I really think that you just have to pull the trigger and get your hands dirty.

-j
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  #5  
Unread 09-24-2006, 01:42 PM
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novanutcase novanutcase is offline
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LOL C'mon JR you know why I have been trying so hard to make this work and have been talking to practically everyone in the business about this? I have already admitted that bling is part of it and I don't consider it a "dirty" word. In terms of Mean69, I think he has forgotten the PM i sent him in which I stated that " I know that this will be hard to do, but I want to do it because no one else is doing it and I want to do something different. I have told myself several times" Why am I going through all this BS when I can just go the traditional route and go buy all the parts and slap them on and be done with it" but I want to do something new(well, relatively new!)". In terms of my pulling the trigger, you know that I was ready to do this but the dilemma with Wayne Due sort of pushed back the whole project. Also, I think one word can sum this part of your post up "Container".
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Unread 09-24-2006, 05:13 PM
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CC isnt all that bad..... if you were to read what is clearly posed to read from the get go..... and lurked a whole lot more before you posted as a reference to getting your ass handed to you from not doing just that..... I am sure it would have gone over a whole lot better. But you also just kept throwing gasoline onto your own fire.

They welcome the right to disagree but wish that those who do would educate themselves well enough to disagree intelligently. But in the same right, dont expect or mistake knowledge for understanding. Testing the water before you jump into the deep end, is just plain common sense.

If you are looking for real answers, have you considered asking someone that has actually pulled this off in a (sort of dimentionally) similiar chassis ?? I am sure they will tell you the very same things that you have been reading. Why not give Tyler at ATS a call.... he's done it already and can tell what you need to hear. Albeit he used the entire C5 IRS, as opposed to the F8.8 IRS you are considering, the control arms are in the chassis and he might be able to give you some ideas on overall diamentions, concerning width and fitment.

Why not just use the entire F8.8 IRS suspension all together ??

I believe you are going to have to sacrifice some of your wants to make it actually work.... or you will jeopardize the desired kinematics of the suspension to do its job in a safe manner. You cannot just start shortening/lengthing components to mearly make it fit and expect it to work. No matter how cool or trick the factor is. You are going to have to ditch the deep offset wheel idea right off the top of it or you are going to have to widen the body about two feet to make up for it. That is reality. Well, if you limited the suspension travel to about six inches.... you could possibly work around that......

Mark said it straight up. He is in the suspension business, and specifically has knowledge of rear suspension to back up what comes out of his mouth. There is damn good reason that you dont and/or havent seen a whole lot of chassis with suspensions that you are considering in the way of IRS. Even the big old school cats in the industry havent even crossed that bridge..... and for that same good reason.

If you are really sold on the whole idea of an IRS suspension and want to pull it off with the components you want and with the other cumulative ideas that you have stated, its gonna take some research on your behalf to get you to the point of understanding the differences. If you want to read it for yourself as to why this whole CC thread and the other threads on the other boards are looked upon as they are, consider further educating yourself in the specifics of what you are asking. Basic geometry, basic kinematics, read 'Chassis Engineering' by Adams, read 'How to make your car handle' by Phun, read 'Engineer to win' by Smith, 'Fundamentals of Vehicle Dynamics' by Gillespie and 'Race car vehicle dynamics' by Milliken.

You are not going to learn anything by mearly asking questions. No one can give you an answer that you will understand unless you have the fundamentals to approach the question from the right direction.

BTW, FWIW..... "Bling" is a useless waste of money, time and resources that does and proves nothing to anyone. With the exception that those who do see and understand it, know that your wasted efforts are for nill. If you wanna keep up with the Jones'.... go get yourself an H2, a couple of Weimaraners and a Starbucks speed pass.

Other than that Nova........ I'd personally like to see you pull it off. Daring to be different is what the real payoff is and where the respect is gained.
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  #7  
Unread 09-24-2006, 07:39 PM
Steve68 Steve68 is offline
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H2(suburban) starbucks, yikes
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  #8  
Unread 09-25-2006, 01:04 PM
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novanutcase novanutcase is offline
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Chicane,

Well said and will do.....thanks for keeping my balls intact!
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  #9  
Unread 09-26-2006, 04:02 AM
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novanutcase novanutcase is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicane
CC isnt all that bad..... if you were to read what is clearly posed to read from the get go..... and lurked a whole lot more before you posted as a reference to getting your ass handed to you from not doing just that..... I am sure it would have gone over a whole lot better. But you also just kept throwing gasoline onto your own fire.

They welcome the right to disagree but wish that those who do would educate themselves well enough to disagree intelligently. But in the same right, dont expect or mistake knowledge for understanding. Testing the water before you jump into the deep end, is just plain common sense.

If you are looking for real answers, have you considered asking someone that has actually pulled this off in a (sort of dimentionally) similiar chassis ?? I am sure they will tell you the very same things that you have been reading. Why not give Tyler at ATS a call.... he's done it already and can tell what you need to hear. Albeit he used the entire C5 IRS, as opposed to the F8.8 IRS you are considering, the control arms are in the chassis and he might be able to give you some ideas on overall diamentions, concerning width and fitment.

Why not just use the entire F8.8 IRS suspension all together ??

I believe you are going to have to sacrifice some of your wants to make it actually work.... or you will jeopardize the desired kinematics of the suspension to do its job in a safe manner. You cannot just start shortening/lengthing components to mearly make it fit and expect it to work. No matter how cool or trick the factor is. You are going to have to ditch the deep offset wheel idea right off the top of it or you are going to have to widen the body about two feet to make up for it. That is reality. Well, if you limited the suspension travel to about six inches.... you could possibly work around that......

Mark said it straight up. He is in the suspension business, and specifically has knowledge of rear suspension to back up what comes out of his mouth. There is damn good reason that you dont and/or havent seen a whole lot of chassis with suspensions that you are considering in the way of IRS. Even the big old school cats in the industry havent even crossed that bridge..... and for that same good reason.

If you are really sold on the whole idea of an IRS suspension and want to pull it off with the components you want and with the other cumulative ideas that you have stated, its gonna take some research on your behalf to get you to the point of understanding the differences. If you want to read it for yourself as to why this whole CC thread and the other threads on the other boards are looked upon as they are, consider further educating yourself in the specifics of what you are asking. Basic geometry, basic kinematics, read 'Chassis Engineering' by Adams, read 'How to make your car handle' by Phun, read 'Engineer to win' by Smith, 'Fundamentals of Vehicle Dynamics' by Gillespie and 'Race car vehicle dynamics' by Milliken.

You are not going to learn anything by mearly asking questions. No one can give you an answer that you will understand unless you have the fundamentals to approach the question from the right direction.

BTW, FWIW..... "Bling" is a useless waste of money, time and resources that does and proves nothing to anyone. With the exception that those who do see and understand it, know that your wasted efforts are for nill. If you wanna keep up with the Jones'.... go get yourself an H2, a couple of Weimaraners and a Starbucks speed pass.

Other than that Nova........ I'd personally like to see you pull it off. Daring to be different is what the real payoff is and where the respect is gained.
Chicane,

I was reading over your post again as I didn't really have a chance to respond so I posted what I posted before but, now that I have a little more time, I would like to respond categorically.

Your right! I didn't fully understand what the purpose of there forum was for! I still disagree with the manner in which they need to tell you although I will say that I was a little disrespectful in trying to rattle there cage a bit. I thought they would understand that it was all in fun but obviously this was not the case. Humor is non-existent over there! I can say though that in terms of "adding gasoline to my own fire" it was of my own choosing! I really wanted to see how far they would go to flame me. It was actually quite amusing!

I didn't know that Tyler at ATS has done this and will call him! Yes, I have looked into someone else having done this in the same manner(dimensionally). Doug Sinjem is doing this to his car and, Yes, he and I have had a lengthy discussion on how he has done it and the pitfalls he has encountered.

I could probably use the full F8.8 but C-5 is very close in terms of width to F8.8 so the difference would be minimal. Why not go C-5 all around or am I mistaken in my data?

I think what most people are missing in my queries is my search for differing opinions as to the doability of this type of endeavor. Some have told me it can be done and how. Some have told me it can't be done and why. Have I done some research on it myself? Herb(Adams) and I are good friends!(Meaning I have the book and have read it several times over!). I will take you up on your suggestions of these other titles and will dig into them as well. Thanks for the suggestion.

In terms of Mark, I have no doubt that what you said holds every bit of truth! In fact, Marks system has been at the top of my list since the inception of this project. I have also spoken to him in e-mail about this very subject to get his opinion on it. I hold Mark only in the highest regard!

Agreed and noted......

Even though it seems as if I'm "sold" on the IRS idea that couldn't be farther from the truth. Because I want to weed out every possibilty in terms of it's implementation is not something to be scorned rather I would think that it should be something to be celebrated as you so aptly put it in your last statement.

As far as "bling", I'm not talking about putting 22" spinning rims on the car. When I say bling I mean to put something on the car that is FIRST functional then cool. Is there something wrong with that? To have a "high performance" part that looks good also? I would guess that you are not a fan of those "engine dress-up" kits. Too Blingy! Toss the chrome air filter too? I'm not trying to be an a$$ or disrespectful to you as I know that you are VERY good at what you do so I have the highest respect for you. I just don't agree that for it to work it can't look good also! Again, I don't mean to be disrespectful and perhaps we can leave it at agreeing to disagree as far as bling? Fair enough?

BTW thanks for the info......I learned alot in your post.

Last edited by novanutcase : 09-26-2006 at 04:22 AM.
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  #10  
Unread 09-26-2006, 11:50 AM
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I'm sorry but being right does not entitle anyone to be an ass.
It is almost like a sport for some members on CC to see who can respond the most swiftly and violently to a board protocol "infraction".
Life is to short for that kind of behavior..

A little common courtesy goes along way IMHO.
Scott
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