Ridetech TruTurn on 69 Camaro

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Great observation.

I always tell people, do the work to check fitment BEFORE you buy the wheel. Borrow a wheel fitment tool, trial fit a test wheel ask the wheel company if they can send you a blank tester. Doing the extra research can save SO much trouble in the end.
Also, just cause Joe A fit the tires and wheels doesn't mean its going to fit Joe B's car. Advise from others are just suggested sizes. Somewhere to start.
Another thing. When fitting wheels and tires, its way cheaper to modify going in than it is going out.
Some customers just aren't comfortable wackin their inner wells or taking a ball bat to the fenders.

It will and can fit, your just gonna have to do the work.

[Rod P]

yep that's lot! so lets se if I can help, from the top,

Originally Posted by onevoice

Not to be critical, because I love your car, but fitting big tires isn't just a matter of taking "bad advice"

bad advice, poor advice, whatever you want to call it, I see it all the time others saying, things don't fit, its all wrong, my question to the OP(original poster) say you cant fit it on a stock frame and you lose turning radius is "Did you try?" and "if so, what didn't work and could it have been fixed or done differently to, did your rim have the wrong offset? wrong steering arms? different camber or castor? for example after I installed the tru-trun I had the same steering in one direction and not the other, after looking at all the parts and cycling the steering over and over I found with manufacturing tolerances +/- whatever they are the steering arm stop hit a 1/2 earlier on one side than the other(could have been the 40+ year old frame angle, lower control arm mounting holes, whatever) I simply ground the steering stop down for clearance, same steering and now better ackerman

Originally Posted by onevoice

You have the same picture of your car in the other thread, so which do you use 9.5" or 10" ? Lay a tape on it and take a picture so we are all sure.

yep sorry about that off the shelf Coys model C55, 17X9.5, rear spacing 5.50", offset +6mm, Bore Dia 78.1mm, bolt pattern 5-120.65,all four corners

Originally Posted by onevoice

The ridetech 48hr camaro does have substantially cut inner and outer fenders/fenderwells. Not enough to look abnormal, but you sure couldn't do it to a painted car, and of course the factory trim won't fit either. The bottom line is that the clearances are too close to make blanket generalizations unless you err on the conservative side. Also, some people have different definitions of what rubbing is, I believe it means taking the spring out and cycling the wheels side to side with the suspension BOTTOMED OUT. Some think if the tires only hit in extreme maneuvers all is fine, and that is ok, as long as everyone understands the situation. An extremely important factor is the camber that is aligned in. An autocross car that goes through a couple of sets of tires a season, isn't worried about -1.5 degrees or more negative camber, whereas a 100% street car isn't going to run near as much, and that extra camber from tilting the top of the tire in helps tremendously in letting the tire and the top of the fender get along.

yes my suspension was also cycled, that should be a standard thing to do when building (I'm no expert/engineer/designer just a hot rodder telling others what I have done) in fact I have a cool little test stand made from and old frame (cost me 50 bucks) and a old creeper, I try everything on first and measure....here it is with the tru-turn, DSE upper arm and stock lower arm



here you can see I'm trying Hotchkis springs in the setup, along with coil overs and several different spindles





and to me rubbing is rubbing and any friction between the tire and any surface other than the road is unsafe, I run 1.2-1.5 degrees camber(daily driven), my inner fender well is modified as shown in my build thread after the car was painted, I did it with a cool $19.95 harbor freight brake and scrap aluminum

Originally Posted by onevoice

As far as I know, there is no one who has tested and published all the variables vs what tire fits. Camber / tire size / wheel offset / ride height /17s & 18's / brake packages / steering & idler arms / headers / etc, etc. If ridetech sent me a truturn, and BFG sent me some Rivals, and Forgeline sent me some wheels in 1/8" different offsets, I would take a stab at it, but we know the likelihood of that is zero.

probably not, I did a lot of testing on my own, crazy stuff, I even had extra steering arms that I heated and bent to run larger rims and fix bump steer, I cut lower control arms to add more castor and fix ball joint angles, Man, I have enough, extra suspension stuff that I have bought over the last 4 years, that I was able to build a custom suspension on my girlfriends 1963 AMC Rambler wagon and I still have enough to build another car+

Originally Posted by onevoice

A search of tru-turn topics just makes things worse, because most responses don't offer enough details of a particular combo to draw concrete conclusions.

agree, but my issues was just don't say it cant be done, that bugs me because 6 years ago I bought my car asked question and was told a lot of stuff on forums that I went ahead and did anyways and found out that many of those giving advice were wrong, WAY wrong, and a few companies that i have been around the last few years actually listened to a little racer guy like me

hope it all helps

[onevoice]

Originally Posted by Rod P

Thanks for the response. This first picture is a good example of why the saying is true, it is worth a thousand words. The rear of the fenderwell that is visible and bent, is why many people get nervous at just taking someone else's experience as gospel. It works for you, and that is ok, but for many with already painted cars including myself, that is just not going to work. I'm not racing the car anymore, it has a stupid expensive paintjob that took an insane amount of time, and a difficult to match color. Inner wheelwell work is fine, bending the outer fender is not.

So maybe the person above who said it can't be done is not so far off, depending on their criteria, ie no cutting. Especially if they were talking about 10" rims, ie 0.5" wider than yours, all added to the outside.

For 67-8's, a common fitting combination for many years has been an approximately 25.5" to 25.6" tall, 245 section tire on an 8" rim with 4.5" to 4.75" of backspacing. It usually fits with only minor rubbing at most. The truturn mod, using 5.75" of backspace, adds an additional 1.0" to 1.25" to the inner part of the rim, and the 275 tire adds an equal amount, also all added to the inside. Now you are up to 9.0 to 9.25" of total rim width. Adding the extra .75 to 1.0" to get to 10" total now has to all be added to the outer part of the rim, and this is where the fender problems start.

Originally Posted by Rod P

I run 1.2-1.5 degrees camber(daily driven), my inner fender well is modified as shown in my build thread after the car was painted, I did it with a cool $19.95 harbor freight brake and scrap aluminum



hope it all helps

Another good picture. I wish ridetech had documented the 48hr build with pictures of the inner and outer fender modifications. They kind of skipped over some important parts like the front fender mods (and the minitub). I know Bret says it is no big deal, and it isn't if you are in the build phase and you have wheels and tires to try, but if you are looking at modifying a built car, it could really help people make tire choices.

Also note that your 1.5 degrees of neg camber helps fender clearance by moving the top of the tire inward, but is probably more than a street only car looking for long tire life is going to want. An autocross only first gen camaro can use as much as 6 degrees negative. With that much you might get away with a 285 or 295.

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by onevoice

Thanks for the response. This first picture is a good example of why the saying is true, it is worth a thousand words. The rear of the fenderwell that is visible and bent, is why many people get nervous at just taking someone else's experience as gospel. It works for you, and that is ok, but for many with already painted cars including myself, that is just not going to work. I'm not racing the car anymore, it has a stupid expensive paintjob that took an insane amount of time, and a difficult to match color. Inner wheelwell work is fine, bending the outer fender is not.

ha ha ha funny but thats not the camaro in that picture that's the Rambler project Im building,

here it is, still under construction


widened track width (60inchs), only a 101 inch wheel base, 10 bolt 8.5 chevy diff, ridetech 4 link, custom subframe, corvette, spindles and brakes, coil overs front and rear
what I started with


Jane's fenders are fine here a link to the popular Hotrodding feature on my car just in September
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...evy_camaro_rs/

[Flash68]

^^ Rod, Suzy's ride is gonna be killer.

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by Flash68

^^ Rod, Suzy's ride is gonna be killer.

Thanks Dave! I'm working as fast as I can

[glr0212]

I'm surprised this got such a response. Thanks to all for the input

but on a 69 its not happening. And its certainly not happening with a 5.75" BS. The reason is "outer" fender clearance

I have the full system complete with the muscle bar. I have a 18x9.5" wheel with 6.25" BS (an extra 0.5" of fender clearance) and it doesn't clear the fender. Its really not even close.

Even with 6.25 I am sacrificing turning radius. at 6.75", which is probably what you need to get clearance, you are talking Austin Powers u-turns. at 5.75" my fender would be sitting on the tire.

On a 68 the fender is rounded and has more clearance for tire movement. Not so much on a 69.

Granted I still need to dial in some negative camber but you can see with zero suspension movement I can barely fit a nickel between the fender and the tire.

So i will maintain that the ridetech setup will not fit 275's on a 69 without giving up turning radius or flaring the outer fenders. I think ridetech really should re-evaluate making 5.75" BS reccos on a 69

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That's the first time I have ever heard that. Usually I hear the opposite.

[glr0212]

i assume you are talking about 68 vs 69 fender clearance. I'm eyeballing it because there is one sitting next to mine. The fenders are rounded on the 68 and have a lip. On the 69 it cuts straight across and there is little or no lip. That is the area where you rub on the 69 fender

[Rod P]

I don't understand why it doesn't fit your 69 camaro, a 69 camaro is 1.5 inches wider in each fender compared to 67-68,
1) I would first set the camber, just from the picture I can see positive camber,
2) set the toe in also
and that will complete the install, there's a lot of factors involved to get it all in, and the inner fender well and inner fender lip on
ALL lowered camaros have to be modified that's why guys like anvil make a taller and wider inner fender well(in fiberglass and carbon)
heres a pic of there fender vs Stock


but I'm not rich so a little trimming and some aluminum to replace the cut out metal and I was done heres some pics

ok I did the fender mod a few months back and its not the most awesome one out there but its simple and I hope it helps you guys some

heres the car at ride height




remove the inner fender bolts all the way around



just leave the front one for now



and the lower rear will need a small button head when your done or you can leave it out if you want



you need a couple of these and some strong forearms or cut it the way you want



you can see were it rubs or just measure the center of the fenderwell and measure 16" x 7" rectangle these are my favs for basic trimming



drill a hole and start trimming,,,,,



instead of an empty hole I left half of the tin in place and bent it backwards to hold the wires and hoses between it and the fenders here is how the hole looks after trimming and rolling the fender edge, see 16 inches



heres the 7 inch measurement



then I made a simple card board filler patch template



the transferred to a thin aluminum diamond plate



bend it to fit the original template



and the I fitted it back into the opening



that's it!! when I replace the inner fender wells with fiber glass ones I will just mod those before I put them in and wont need to have the aluminum plates any more and this mod allows a ton of roll and no rub!!!



hope this helps!!