Go the suspension and chassis sub-forum and read every sticky post at the top by Ron Sutton.
I think this is very good advice, I will do this ASAP. I also placed a call to Speedway Engineering this afternoon and I am awaiting a return call from their tech guru. I am hopeful that they have some sort of calculator similar to a coil spring rate calculator, we'll see what they say..
Quote:
Originally Posted by preston
Quick synopsis on sway bars - All sway bars are just a metal spring. Mass produced pre-bent swaybars are notoriously difficult to model ie determine their exact roll rate, so its experimentation or crap shoot or follow someone else's lead. The splined bars are easier to model and the manufacturers provide rate charts for various diameters and widths with the catch that each manufacturer has their own method of rating them. Speedway Mfg is the most prominent manufacturer of the splined swaybar so you can easily stick with them. Determine what width of bar will work including a 0-5" bend in the arms themselves (arm lenght also affects rate).
I agree, Speedway Engineering appears to be a pretty cool company from their website. I also see that there is a bunch of stuff on eBay too so there may be some more 'economical' choices available depending on my needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by preston
Now you have no idea what rate you want, but if you are going from nothign to something, you probably don't want to go to far, especially since more rear roll resistance can lead to too much oversteer. My ballpark recommendation is to determine as I mentioned above the width and attachment points that will work, then go to the speedway site and see what is available. I would recommend starting with a 1" diameter hollow bar and fairly thin wall. Thinner wall means less roll resistance. Try it for awhile, and then maybe experiment with something thicker (easy to swap in and out).
You are spot on about this, I have no idea what to order.. I am totally shooting in the dark here. That's why I am seeking advice !
I do have a couple of clarifications to offer however.. I do currently have a stock swaybar on the front, it measures 1 1/8th in diameter.
The rear of the GMT 800 Silverado trucks ('99-07) didn't have a swaybar from the factory on the 4x4 models (my truck). I am unsure yet if I will need/want one in the rear just yet.. I've upgraded other trucks and added swaybars to trucks that didnt have a rear bar with remarkable results. I will say, it was one of the best mods I did on my GMC Typhoon back in the day, but I never drove that truck competitively like I am this truck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by preston
You can also drill multiple holes in the arms, and by shortening the arms (by moving to the shorter holes) you can get a sense of what a thicker wall roll bar will do and give yourself some finer adjustment. IOW build something, buy a fairly thin wall bar and start in the longest holes, adjust to the closer holes to see if it performs better. If it does, you might want to try moving up the wall thickness.
This is interesting, I hadn't considered wall thickness as a tuning tool, but that totally makes sense. I think I have 4 options for tuning at this point. 1) Wall Thickness of the bar. 2) Arm Length (not really an option as I have other suspension components to clear, cant get too crazy here). 3) Swaybar Diameter. 4) Hole Location in the Arm
Quote:
Originally Posted by preston
For a rear swaybar I cannot imagine you would want to use anything larger in diameter than 1", but who knows I've never tuned a heavy AWD truck.
Yeah the AWD changes a lot of things vs. a conventional RWD setup. As a test I've done this a few times: I've run the same course, on the same day, only minutes apart in RWD; then again in AWD. It is amazing how much more stable the truck is exiting AND entering the corner. It's much more composed in AWD..
Interesting, the pre-bent aftermarket bars are 1 1/2" of 1 5/8" in diameter (I can't remember which).. The stock bar is just over an inch, but I believe it to be a hollow bar so I know the spring rate is pretty weak in comparison to the aftermarket bars or the splined bar option. I'll read up on the suggestion you made and hopefully between that and the call back tomorrow, hopefully I am more informed to make a decent purchase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YAMATHUMP
Very cool project, I have an 83c10 that I am starting on so it is cool to see someone else make a truck handle.
Thanks man, it's fun to play with my toy project again.. I need a tire sponsor though.. This pig can eat some rubber !! Another autocross this Sunday !!
The SCCA club here has a gal that goes to the events and takes professional pics of the event, pretty neat to get action shots of your ride in action.....
I have a couple pics from the last SCCA event I attended, the next event is Sunday I plan on attending it.
Punishing the RF tire:
Look at this lean, this is why I need bigger bars:
Back in the day, I installed a rear swaybar on my Typhoon and considered it the best mod I ever did to that truck, so I am not opposed to adding a rear bar. My bigger concern is that with the 4 link in the rear it is very busy back there in terms of mounting a swaybar. Between the 4-Link, gas tank, spare tire, driveshaft and misc brake lines, there's a lot of 'confusion' back there. If I decide to add a rear bar, I'll need to make a concentrated effort to get something that fits well without hitting other components. Not impossible, but not just an order & install affair. I want to get a better setup in the front and resolve that first before I start on the rear.
I placed a few calls today, one to Speedway Engineering, they said they are the manufacturer, and have limited application data available (read NONE). They recommended that I contact a chassis shop because with all the angles, and dimensions they don't really have any idea what I'd need.. Fair enough, they have their market, and it's manufacturing, not spec'ing out rides. Very friendly and positive people to talk to, just not their bag.
I called another chassis shop here in Tennessee and basically got the brush off, not certain but it felt like it was because my truck is too new. Must be nice to be able to pick and chose what customers you want to work with.
So I finally called Ron Sutton, he was heading back from a show in Vegas and was very accomodating on the phone. Even though he was trailering back a display trailer from his show he took the time out to talk to me and laid out my options. Damn.. I need to start plasma donation or something to support my hobby. LOL I'll follow up with more details as they get finalized.
In other news, I did another SCCA points event autocross yesterday, overall everything went well (relatively speaking anyhow). While I was doing corner-worker duty the skies opened up and it started to rain, sort of sucks when its only 50* ambient air temp and the wind is blowing. I was hoping for a full on rain as it would level the playing field in my favor significantly.
At this event there was 2 other cars in my class this weekend (that's a first).. A 4th Gen WS6 Trans Am and 5th Gen Camaro. The Trans Am was a purpose built vehicle that was impressive to watch, the driver was very talented. The 5th Gen Camaro was a nice piece as well but leaned a little more towards the street than track/course built ride of the T/A. The Camaro had a nice lumpy cam in it and was rolling on ZL1 wheels. Both cars were running sticky rubber (opposed to my street tires).
Anyhow I had hoped for a full-on rain, SCCA runs in the rain, only stopping for storms involving lightning. With my truck in Auto 4WD and on street tires it would have levelled the playing field exponentially in my favor vs. the RWD race tire guys.. Sadly, this would NOT be the case, by the time it was my turn to run the track was at best, damp. By the 2nd run, I couldnt even tell it had rained. However, on my first run, while it was damp, I was able to pull a giant Petter Solberg style drift around one of the corners. The back end broke loose under braking and began to rotate around pointing the truck into the direction of the corner. I slammed the throttle WOT and the front end just pulled it straight forward and into the corner in a slingshot manner.. Pretty damn cool and by far my highlight of the day..
Sadly the rest of the day didn't end well for me, I need to learn to slow down and stop trying to hammer the F#_%* out of the course. I continually over drove the course.. I'm am attaching my 5th run of the day for your viewing pleasure/laughter. It was set to be the best run of my day until I over-baked the last corner (intended to slow people down, which I didn't), and I clipped the last cone and blasted through the finish gate cones, taking out at least 3-4 of them and causing the two guys behind me to get re-runs as they were setting up the cones I destroyed.. Fortunately I didn't hit any timing equipment.
One thing I did find myself doing was I was 'hugging' the center console in preparation for turns!! I didn't realize that I was doing this before, and I am certain it isn't helping my technique. So I believe I will be working towards a harness of some sort or at the very least, a competition lap belt to help hold my butt in place!!!! In the mean time, in an attempt to compensate, I moved my seat forward about 3-4 clicks to help wedge me in place, at 6'5" tall it's not uncommon for me to get wedged in a car/truck anyhow. This did wonders for my technique and I actually felt better on my last 3 runs.. I can't believe I didn't do this before, I used to back when I autocrossed my BMW back in 2008-2010. I believe a 4 point harness is in my future if I can figure out a way to mount it in place without losing too much recline room on the seat, being 6'5" tall I don't always want to feel 'wedged' in place. I do use the truck for other daily usages. Anyhow, more to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sieg
I'm guessing a splined bar setup on that truck with tuning insight would money well spent.
Call Ron Sutton and hopefully you'll get along and end up throwing some money his way.
I concur 100%... I called Ron earlier today and I am in the early stages of getting a 3 piece splined bar in place.. Most likely it will be a weld in place 'bar in a tube' setup.. The bad news is, I think I just blew my harness money on a sway bar.. Great, more traction adding stuff to throw me around in the truck and less restraining devices in the truck !! Perfect !!
Nice job!!!! just went through it and love it. I'm doing something similar to my '16 Chev 4x4 rcsb. I wont be autocrossing it but i'm in sales/estimates and spend hours in it everyday and WANT better handling. I've been intouch with McGaughy's and there doing a new spindle as these a arms are a little different than yours.
Nice job!!!! just went through it and love it. I'm doing something similar to my '16 Chev 4x4 rcsb. I wont be autocrossing it but i'm in sales/estimates and spend hours in it everyday and WANT better handling. I've been intouch with McGaughy's and there doing a new spindle as these a arms are a little different than yours.
Watchin!
Did McGaughy's give you any idea on the time frame for this? I have a buddy that is lamenting about the lack of lowering parts for his truck (also a 4WD), I told him it will come, but the aftermarket is slow to respond it seems. I guess only those of us that are a bit offcenter lower a 4WD truck... LOL
Did McGaughy's give you any idea on the time frame for this? I have a buddy that is lamenting about the lack of lowering parts for his truck (also a 4WD), I told him it will come, but the aftermarket is slow to respond it seems. I guess only those of us that are a bit offcenter lower a 4WD truck... LOL
I look at as "my 4500lb" Subaru with a bed. I use the 4x4 for snow and towing, almost never offroad.
They just said "some time this year". I might see if Ride Tech has anything up their sleeve, as i have their stuff on my Camaro...
I was going to ask you where a autocross track was, but when watching one of the video's it says "Blytheville Aeroplex". Really! I didn't know they were doing that there!.. I live in Jonesboro, (used to live in Blytheville when the base was still there). I knew they did the autocross once a year, but do they do it more often?
I look at as "my 4500lb" Subaru with a bed. I use the 4x4 for snow and towing, almost never offroad.
They just said "some time this year". I might see if Ride Tech has anything up their sleeve, as i have their stuff on my Camaro...
Thank you, I will pass it along to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minendrews68
I was going to ask you where a autocross track was, but when watching one of the video's it says "Blytheville Aeroplex". Really! I didn't know they were doing that there!.. I live in Jonesboro, (used to live in Blytheville when the base was still there). I knew they did the autocross once a year, but do they do it more often?
Honestly, that was the first time I have run there, I just moved to this area about 20 months ago. The Mid-South SCCA group lost their run area (TSA requirements), so there is going to be a lot of travelling for me if I want to continue to run in SCCA. The weekend prior to the weekend of the Blytheville event I was in Grenada MS running at the airport there. Anyhow, the next event is in Little Rock, but I believe they are going to have a few events at Blytheville Aeroplex. You can check out the schedule here: http://www.arscca.org/
Good Luck and say HI if you stop out for an event. I am on hold until I get the sway bar installed so it may be a month +/- before I continue running.. We'll see.
Brian Hobaugh SCCA National Tour June 2014
First Hemi 'Cuda Convertible Ever Built
Short clips: Goodguys Pleasanton autocross and pit videos
Must be nice to be able to pick and chose what customers you want to work with.
LOL I'll follow up with more details as they get finalized.
Fortunately I didn't hit any timing equipment.
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