Thread: Corner Carvers
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Old 09-26-2006, 04:02 AM
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novanutcase novanutcase is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicane
CC isnt all that bad..... if you were to read what is clearly posed to read from the get go..... and lurked a whole lot more before you posted as a reference to getting your ass handed to you from not doing just that..... I am sure it would have gone over a whole lot better. But you also just kept throwing gasoline onto your own fire.

They welcome the right to disagree but wish that those who do would educate themselves well enough to disagree intelligently. But in the same right, dont expect or mistake knowledge for understanding. Testing the water before you jump into the deep end, is just plain common sense.

If you are looking for real answers, have you considered asking someone that has actually pulled this off in a (sort of dimentionally) similiar chassis ?? I am sure they will tell you the very same things that you have been reading. Why not give Tyler at ATS a call.... he's done it already and can tell what you need to hear. Albeit he used the entire C5 IRS, as opposed to the F8.8 IRS you are considering, the control arms are in the chassis and he might be able to give you some ideas on overall diamentions, concerning width and fitment.

Why not just use the entire F8.8 IRS suspension all together ??

I believe you are going to have to sacrifice some of your wants to make it actually work.... or you will jeopardize the desired kinematics of the suspension to do its job in a safe manner. You cannot just start shortening/lengthing components to mearly make it fit and expect it to work. No matter how cool or trick the factor is. You are going to have to ditch the deep offset wheel idea right off the top of it or you are going to have to widen the body about two feet to make up for it. That is reality. Well, if you limited the suspension travel to about six inches.... you could possibly work around that......

Mark said it straight up. He is in the suspension business, and specifically has knowledge of rear suspension to back up what comes out of his mouth. There is damn good reason that you dont and/or havent seen a whole lot of chassis with suspensions that you are considering in the way of IRS. Even the big old school cats in the industry havent even crossed that bridge..... and for that same good reason.

If you are really sold on the whole idea of an IRS suspension and want to pull it off with the components you want and with the other cumulative ideas that you have stated, its gonna take some research on your behalf to get you to the point of understanding the differences. If you want to read it for yourself as to why this whole CC thread and the other threads on the other boards are looked upon as they are, consider further educating yourself in the specifics of what you are asking. Basic geometry, basic kinematics, read 'Chassis Engineering' by Adams, read 'How to make your car handle' by Phun, read 'Engineer to win' by Smith, 'Fundamentals of Vehicle Dynamics' by Gillespie and 'Race car vehicle dynamics' by Milliken.

You are not going to learn anything by mearly asking questions. No one can give you an answer that you will understand unless you have the fundamentals to approach the question from the right direction.

BTW, FWIW..... "Bling" is a useless waste of money, time and resources that does and proves nothing to anyone. With the exception that those who do see and understand it, know that your wasted efforts are for nill. If you wanna keep up with the Jones'.... go get yourself an H2, a couple of Weimaraners and a Starbucks speed pass.

Other than that Nova........ I'd personally like to see you pull it off. Daring to be different is what the real payoff is and where the respect is gained.
Chicane,

I was reading over your post again as I didn't really have a chance to respond so I posted what I posted before but, now that I have a little more time, I would like to respond categorically.

Your right! I didn't fully understand what the purpose of there forum was for! I still disagree with the manner in which they need to tell you although I will say that I was a little disrespectful in trying to rattle there cage a bit. I thought they would understand that it was all in fun but obviously this was not the case. Humor is non-existent over there! I can say though that in terms of "adding gasoline to my own fire" it was of my own choosing! I really wanted to see how far they would go to flame me. It was actually quite amusing!

I didn't know that Tyler at ATS has done this and will call him! Yes, I have looked into someone else having done this in the same manner(dimensionally). Doug Sinjem is doing this to his car and, Yes, he and I have had a lengthy discussion on how he has done it and the pitfalls he has encountered.

I could probably use the full F8.8 but C-5 is very close in terms of width to F8.8 so the difference would be minimal. Why not go C-5 all around or am I mistaken in my data?

I think what most people are missing in my queries is my search for differing opinions as to the doability of this type of endeavor. Some have told me it can be done and how. Some have told me it can't be done and why. Have I done some research on it myself? Herb(Adams) and I are good friends!(Meaning I have the book and have read it several times over!). I will take you up on your suggestions of these other titles and will dig into them as well. Thanks for the suggestion.

In terms of Mark, I have no doubt that what you said holds every bit of truth! In fact, Marks system has been at the top of my list since the inception of this project. I have also spoken to him in e-mail about this very subject to get his opinion on it. I hold Mark only in the highest regard!

Agreed and noted......

Even though it seems as if I'm "sold" on the IRS idea that couldn't be farther from the truth. Because I want to weed out every possibilty in terms of it's implementation is not something to be scorned rather I would think that it should be something to be celebrated as you so aptly put it in your last statement.

As far as "bling", I'm not talking about putting 22" spinning rims on the car. When I say bling I mean to put something on the car that is FIRST functional then cool. Is there something wrong with that? To have a "high performance" part that looks good also? I would guess that you are not a fan of those "engine dress-up" kits. Too Blingy! Toss the chrome air filter too? I'm not trying to be an a$$ or disrespectful to you as I know that you are VERY good at what you do so I have the highest respect for you. I just don't agree that for it to work it can't look good also! Again, I don't mean to be disrespectful and perhaps we can leave it at agreeing to disagree as far as bling? Fair enough?

BTW thanks for the info......I learned alot in your post.

Last edited by novanutcase; 09-26-2006 at 04:22 AM.
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