PDA

View Full Version : Has anybody rebuilt a Procharger on their own?


Blown353
02-17-2007, 11:56 PM
As the subject states... my Procharger has always had a slightly "weepy" rear shaft seal that unfortunately has now become a leak. After driving 80 miles today there was quite an oil film all on the bottom of the unit. It's not the drain plug.

Procharger likes to ding people quite a bit of money for a rebuild and take their sweet time doing it... so I'd like to do it myself if possible.

I know the seals they use are easy to get and cheap $4 Chicago Rawhide pieces, but how the heck do you get the impeller off without damaging it to change the rear seal? I can't figure out a good way to press it off.

A while back I found a thread on a mustang message board that outlined how to rebuild a Procharger yourself but I can't seem to find it now. Hoping someone can help out.

Plan B is to send it back to ATI for inspection/resealing but I thought I'd ask here first.

frankenstang
02-18-2007, 11:57 AM
Here's a link to a HUGE thread on the Vortech rebuild. I helped Silver86 rebuild his A-trim into a hybrid using a bad S-trim. We used the impeller and volute from the 's' on the good 'a' case and had good results. I imagine the Procharger is not too much different. Good luck.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=780865

907rs
02-18-2007, 12:07 PM
Troy, send Jeff (3kidsnotime) a PM. He's been dealing with Procharger in marine applications since their early days. He should be able to point you in the right direction.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

3kidsnotime
02-20-2007, 12:24 PM
I would recommend calling 913-338-3086 and speak to Dorian at ati and explain the time factor needed, As far as cost they charge the rate for repairs needed. Admittedly they can be slow at rebuilding especially during race season. But with the posability of damaging the impeller that depending on what model you have can be spinning 60k is quite a risk with pressing issues, you will be hard pressed to get them to sell you a impeller only, or any rebuild parts. For liability reasons and just plain crashing your head unit I would send it in.

Blown353
02-20-2007, 02:05 PM
I will be giving them a call shortly. The guy I purchased the unit from (Scott @ SDCE in Rhode Island) moves a LOT of ATI products so I'm hoping that will help things along.

The unit functions great aside from the oil leak at the impeller shaft seal, I'm hoping it will be a fairly inexpensive fix. No odd noise or debris on the magnetic drain plug.

My biggest fear is lead time-- I'd really like a 3 week total turnaround (1 week there, 1 week servicing, 1 week return.) If their wait time is longer than that I might consider 2 day shipping. I need the head unit on the car for at least another week to fab my intercooler piping once the intercooler shows up then I'll be shipping it out for service while the IC piping goes out for high temp ceramic coating.

My other worry is that the leaking seal is a sign of one of the high speed side bearings going out and getting sloppy.

Blown353
03-19-2007, 11:22 PM
Just an update in case anyone is interested...

Tonight I said what the hell and tore it apart on my own. Piece of cake, really, teardown procedure is pretty much identical to the Vortech teardown on the Mustang forum and the internals are very similar with the exception the Procharger has one more lower gear to serve as an oil slinger/aereator.

Tomorrow I'll be pressing the impeller off (Procharger uses an extra snap ring to retain the rear high speed bearing, unlike the Vortech) and getting the PN off the rear seal. Then all I have to do is hit up a local shop for new seals and a new o-ring for the case halves. I'm also going to run the numbers for the bearings that ATI uses and see what their ratings are. Oddly enough, one thing I'm not liking is the front side high speed bearing is a GMN S6204CTAA7, which is mfg. rated at 51K RPM, while Procharger rates the max safe speed of the impeller at 62,000. I'm sure GMN has some safety factor built into their maximum allowable speed rating but my feeling is that ATI is pushing their luck by rating their superchargers at 62K rpm-- which is overspeeding the bearings by 11K RPM.

I'll have pictures of everything later this week but if you have any sort of mechanical skill and access to a press this is certainly something one can tackle on their own-- as long as you don't mind taking the risk.

XcYZ
03-20-2007, 07:44 AM
Cool, Troy. I wouldn't mind seeing pics of the internals.

Blown353
03-20-2007, 11:17 PM
Cool, Troy. I wouldn't mind seeing pics of the internals.

I'll take some as I'm putting it back together.

Pressed the impeller off today in an arbor press (much better feel than with a hydraulic)-- another easy task although it took a bit of hanging on the handle to get the sucker to pop free initially.

I already know I'm going to have fun tomorrow trying to get a replacement for the rear high speed seal... it's some oddball double lipped seal with no visible part numbers or any other kind of ID anywhere on it to identify the maker. The guys behind the counter are going to love me. :willy:

XcYZ
03-21-2007, 07:51 AM
Did you do it by yourself? Or did it take extra hands?

Blown353
03-21-2007, 08:50 AM
Did you do it by yourself? Or did it take extra hands?

Extra hands were needed for safety. I held everything while a friend worked the press. You can't remove the low speed shaft & bearings ahead of time because with the impeller in place the input shaft gear hits a high speed bearing. Once you get the impeller pressed off about 1.5" you can then remove the low speed shaft & bearing assembly... or if I didn't have the extra hands it would probably have dropped.

Murphy would like nothing better than to let something expensive hit the floor if I attempted it on my own. :lol:

Update:

The high speed seal appears to be custom-- so says my friend at Motion Industries. I'm going to try a CR double-lipped Viton seal and see how that works because they appear to work for Vortech. If it still leaks then it will be going back to Procharger since I can't procure what seems to be a proprietary seal. Ugh.

Also, the case o-ring is not an AS568 standard size so that also has to be custom. I'm going to have another friend vulcanize/splice together a viton case o-ring for me.

Leadfoot1
03-22-2007, 08:03 AM
Are you saying ATI won't sell you the parts????

I think they should, i mean, you have their products...what kind of service is that if they don't even support the ones that support THEM!

Did you call and ask?

Lead.

Blown353
03-22-2007, 07:03 PM
ATI will not sell *ANY* headunit service parts to the end user other than drain plug o-rings and dipstick seals-- I did call and ask although I did not get pushy nor would I have. They will only perform service on the units and replace what is needed and tell you to send the thing into them for inspection/service.

On one hand I can see their point-- if someone botches an install using parts they sold that guy might come whining back to them wanting to get it repaired/replaced for free. But for a guy like me who is out of warranty I don't really see the harm. If I screw up it's on me and I'll pay to fix or replace it. Let's face it, this isn't rocket science to rebuild one of these things but you can screw up the bearings by being overzealous or stupid with the press. The rebuilding thing is probably a cash cow for them too, if I had all the parts in hand up front I could knock it out VERY quickly and for what they charge I'm sure the profit is pretty darn good.

There are better bearings out there than what they used in my build but I'm guessing it boils down to a cost thing for them. As I mentioned earlier if you run the headunit at ATI's advertised maximum speeds you will be exceeding the manufacturer's spec for both the low and high speed bearings.

Not to mention the bearings on the oil aereator gear say "China" :wow:

My plan down the road is to change over to ceramic GMN bearings on the high speed side as they are rated to 78K rpm. The low speed side currently uses 11K rpm rated Koyo bearings (keep in mind at a max impeller speed the low speed bearings will see 15K RPM, so ATI is once again overdoing things a bit) and there are better higher speed rated alternatives for there as well. I have not priced them out but I'm sure they will be more expensive than the bearings currently used-- how much more I don't know.

Blown353
03-24-2007, 02:05 AM
Another update...

I tried putting the new seals in today and reassembling the unit... no go. As I mentioned earlier, the rear high speed seal is a custom jobber with a non-standard thickness dimension. I scoured the catalogs of various sealmakers and purchased the closest seal I could but I can't get an out-of-the-book seal short enough to allow me to get the snap ring in behind it. The ATI seal is just an oddball. I could machine the supercharger housing to fit the new seal but that would be, well, dumb. LOL.

It looks like I'll be sending the unit in to be rebuilt since the only other option is to have a seal custom made. The good news is I figure I'll have them "upsize" it to a D1SC while they're at it.

camcojb
03-24-2007, 10:15 AM
Another update...

I tried putting the new seals in today and reassembling the unit... no go. As I mentioned earlier, the rear high speed seal is a custom jobber with a non-standard thickness dimension. I scoured the catalogs of various sealmakers and purchased the closest seal I could but I can't get an out-of-the-book seal short enough to allow me to get the snap ring in behind it. The ATI seal is just an oddball. I could machine the supercharger housing to fit the new seal but that would be, well, dumb. LOL.

It looks like I'll be sending the unit in to be rebuilt since the only other option is to have a seal custom made. The good news is I figure I'll have them "upsize" it to a D1SC while they're at it.

Has Scott ever been able to rebuild these and source the correct parts? I'd guess you've asked him, just curious.

Jody

Blown353
03-24-2007, 01:25 PM
Has Scott ever been able to rebuild these and source the correct parts? I'd guess you've asked him, just curious.

Jody

Yep. They won't sell service parts to Scott, he just sends them in for rebuild/service/inspection. I even had my other friend in town who is a dealer for Procharger call and ask-- they wouldn't sell him the parts either. I did confirm that the seals are indeed proprietary and custom made specifically for Procharger.

I'm pretty ticked at the moment; I just finished the intercooler installation and I really want to go drive the sucker but with the supercharger in pieces that won't work out so well. :lol:

907rs
03-24-2007, 05:34 PM
Well that bites, Troy. Hopefully they'll be fair with you on the labor end of things when you get the bill.

awr68
03-24-2007, 11:22 PM
I just finished the intercooler installation and I really want to go drive the sucker but with the supercharger in pieces that won't work out so well. :lol:

We need pics and specs on the intercooler!! :thumbsup:

Blown353
03-25-2007, 03:35 AM
We need pics and specs on the intercooler!! :thumbsup:

Pics of the intercooler are here: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=8304&highlight=intercooler

I should have some pics of the install tomorrow.

The radiator moved back 2" and up about 1", I installed a new larger AC condenser, relocated the receiver/dryer and made new hoses, and added a power steering cooler while I was at it. All the intake plumbing is 304 mandrel bends. I would have gone aluminum but all my friends suck at aluminum welding (as do I.) With some careful planning I was able to retain the factory hood latch-- something which I thought I was going to have to ditch when I started. :thumbsup:

I'm putting the supercharger back together tomorrow morning so I can reinstall it and finish welding braces on the SC to intercooler inlet pipe and also weld on 1.5" stubs for the bypass valves-- I was getting some compressor surge at high rpm / light load (I could hear it chattering back through the intake); I think that is what hurt the rear seal on the supercharger. Rather than buy the really loud Race bypass valve from Procharger I just bought a second Pro-Flo surge valve and will run a pair of them. Much quieter and in my situation easier to fit. Only problem is the new one is all pretty black anodized billet machined aluminum while my old one is an aluminum tube with a plastic actuator hanging off once side. Oh well, they're going to be stashed under the nose where you can't see them.

I'm hoping they can turn around the reseal operation pretty quick, I really want the car on the road.