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tracy
10-13-2006, 05:35 PM
I am looking for experience and opinions on the use of Water/Methanol Injection as an alternative to intercooling for a super charger application.

I have run across this company Coolingmist (http://www.coolingmist.com/) which seems to have an interesting product.

It certainly looks like more trouble to deal with on an ongoing basis than intercooling but it is small and less expensive and seems to be fairly effective.

-Tracy

camcojb
10-13-2006, 05:49 PM
I am looking for experience and opinions on the use of Water/Methanol Injection as an alternative to intercooling for a super charger application.

I have run across this company Coolingmist (http://www.coolingmist.com/) which seems to have an interesting product.

It certainly looks like more trouble to deal with on an ongoing basis than intercooling but it is small and less expensive and seems to be fairly effective.

-Tracy

Works great. I used it on the yellow Procharged 540 and my friends Procharged 406, both pump gas and no intercooler. I've also used them on my Lightning and twin turbo GTO which were intercooled. Still allowed more boost and timing on pump gas which was more power.

I've used the following kits which worked well:
http://www.devilsownonline.com/

http://www.snowperformance.net/

http://www.smcenterprises.com/

Blown353
10-14-2006, 12:03 AM
I run a progressive controller from Julio Don, but the Devil's Own controller is very nice... and he's taken the time to spec out the best pumps for the job.

If you set it up right it's basically maintenance-free (besides adding water as needed) as long as you use distilled water and have a filter before the pump to keep junk out of the nozzle(s).

Does it work? You bet. When datalogging my car, my intake air temp *drops* as boost increases; from 3 psi (water injection turn on point) up to redline (15psi) the IAT steadily drops because of the water injection. I'm going to keep the water injection even after I add an intercooler for the detonation supressing & cleaning effects, I'll probably just drop down on the nozzle sizes since I won't be relying on it to cool the intake temps so much.

Running water/methanol mix will yield more power but then you need to keep in mind methanol is corrosive to aluminum. I run water only for just that reason, it still provides the cooling effect and as an added bonus your intake runners, valves, and combustion chambers stay very clean from the steam. I'd much rather sacrifice a little bit of power compared to rotting out my .065" wall aluminum pipes from the SC to the throttle body.

ProTouring442
10-14-2006, 05:44 AM
I thought you could run that "de-ice" washer fluid in them? Then again, maybe that's methenol, I'm not sure.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.fquick.com/ProTouring442

camcojb
10-14-2006, 10:49 AM
I thought you could run that "de-ice" washer fluid in them? Then again, maybe that's methenol, I'm not sure.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.fquick.com/ProTouring442 (http://www.fquick.com/ProTouring442)

that is a mixture of methanol and water, so it can be run. The first two I did were straight water and worked very well. The last two have been ethanol which gives extra fueling, an octane boost, and not as corrosive as methanol. Denatured alcohol is what it's usually called. Only disadvantage is it's more expensive than methanol, but it was only costing me $1.50 or so per tank of gas, so the cost was pretty much a non-factor.

Jody

tracy
10-15-2006, 12:42 AM
Thanks for the input. This was quite helpful. I just don't see anyone on these boards talking about this technology but it seems like a very viable way to go.

ohcbird
10-15-2006, 01:28 AM
I use a small setup on my supercharged 4Runner (a 93 with a 98 3.4 in it). Works great, allows more timing and boost... not that I really need it.

speedshopmike
11-07-2006, 06:38 PM
look at Snow's injection units; they're quite excellent

tracy
11-07-2006, 07:09 PM
look at Snow's injection units; they're quite excellent

Thanks. I will check it out.

nowwhat
11-10-2006, 11:28 AM
I use FJO's units.....great product.....

cutlasskid
11-10-2006, 07:01 PM
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/alcohol-nitrous-propane-tech/ there is alot of talk about systems here.

pdq67
12-30-2006, 06:40 PM
Can you run E85 gasohol and water in the water tank??

pdq67

camcojb
12-30-2006, 07:28 PM
Can you run E85 gasohol and water in the water tank??

pdq67

not sure Paul. Gas and water generally don't mix, so that would be an issue I think.

I've used methanol and ethanol with great results.

Jody

pdq67
01-27-2007, 10:13 PM
Anything wrong with using rubbing alcohol here??

Stuff used to be dirt cheap in the little quart bottles on sale..

pdq67

deuce_454
01-28-2007, 03:50 PM
one could "tip the tank" with water when running E85 but the E85 is allready 104 octane so you can run serioud boost on an engine like that so im not sure youd really need the water, an air/ari IC would work better in that app.

the germans ran a mix of 50/50 water and methanol (MW50 they called it- for methanol und wasser) on the boosted ww2 fighterplanes.. so half and half cant be way off! (2200 cui v12, 40-50 pounds of boost and NOS! now thats an engine)

(the import guys here run washerfluid on their hondas and bmw's btw.. so as long as it only contails demineralized water and possibly some alcohol content you should be fine)

stylEmon
01-12-2008, 11:57 PM
Just thought I would share,
Cooling mist veriCool2 system has some VERY bad reviews by a friend of mine.

He used the system and it ended up with a blown motor and a trashed turbo. The style injector that came with the system came apart and went through the motor and out the exhaust. It damaged his motor and destroyed the turbine wheel.

I don't know all the details of the install.

I've heard good things about AquaMist tho

whytry
01-14-2008, 04:00 PM
I've got the Devils Own progressive setup on my Procharged 468. I'm running a mixture of Winshield washer fluid and VEET right now per Devil's Own and I am running the dual nozzle setup as well with no Intercooler.

stylEmon
01-18-2008, 05:22 PM
with no Intercooler.

Welcome to the Club!!! :cheers:

hotrodf1
02-11-2008, 10:47 PM
Just my $.02 -
If you get the windshield washer fluid, which will be a combo of water and methanol, shake it to make sure it doesn't foam up real bad (which means lots of detergents - BAD).

I believe most of the time the cheapest stuff you can get is the most "pure" from a water / methanol standpoint. Also, pay attention to the temp rating. Most will say -20 deg.. THe lower the temp., the more the % of methanol! If you can stay consistent with the temp rating your tune will be more consistent as well. I think for winter, some stores will carry a more aggresive blend, but it might dissappear in the warm summer months, so you may need to think ahead on that deal.

BTW, for learning more and asking specific questions, Devil's Own has a nice little forum where their gurus hang around and answer questions etc. pretty much exclusively about water injection. There's other forms of transportation on there as well, like a turbocharged snowmobile with alky injection :unibrow:

I put the Devils Own boost switch activated kit on my car just recently and haven't had the chance to drive it yet. Seems like a nice quality kit. But, I added a water pressure switch in line as well to give a "pressure fault" Light in the dash if something were to go wrong (blown line, no water,etc)- it's also hooked up to my ignition box high speed timing retard so that it pulls timing (whatever I set in the box) when a pressure fault is realized (or if the system is disarmed via the dash switch). Its the only way I could think of to help protect my blow thru vortech supercharged application.

Good luck!

stylEmon
02-12-2008, 10:53 PM
that is basically the system i am building. I have the benifit of a MoTeC ecu, so I can control timing and spray with that. I am also installing a pressure sensor connected to an LED and an LED that turns on simply when the pump is on.

I am using the Devil's own pump.

I dont really know why people would use washer fluid...? I just use RO water and methanol. I see no reason to run detergent through the motor. someone know something i dont?

Spiffav8
02-12-2008, 11:59 PM
Just to back up what DEUCE_454 said. Propeller driven airplanes use AWI (a mix of water and methanol, 80/20) to boost performance. The Metro I used to fly gained 100 shp when it was used for take off. Then again that was in a TPE3311G-11U turbine engine that turned at 41,550 RPM. Not sure what the gain for you would be but it does work and it's great on those hot summer days.

stylEmon
02-14-2008, 03:50 PM
yes, water/methanol is a great mix. One: water is a detenation deterent

Two: methanol burn cold. Lower intake temps = more air molecules

I thought I read that someone was using windsheild washer fluid. I was just curious why you'd use that instead of RO water?

mazspeed
02-14-2008, 08:41 PM
Id also like to know which is best to run. I get my car back tomorrow with more boost, so I'm curious what is the best thing for my WI and where to get it.

stylEmon
02-15-2008, 04:00 PM
Devil's own.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/water-injection-kits-1/chevy-20/ls1-7-stage-2-49.html

hotrodf1
02-16-2008, 12:11 PM
Devil's own.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/water-injection-kits-1/chevy-20/ls1-7-stage-2-49.html

+1, they are good stuff