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View Full Version : LS1, LS2 or..........for my 68 Camaro?


Moabdude
12-09-2011, 04:27 PM
I am considering an LS engine. I like the injection motors and the fuel efficiency of them. Gas is almost $ 10,-/gallon over here.

I see LS1 with 4L60 combo's for as low as $3000,- om Craigslist.
What is the difference between the Corvette and Camaro LS1.

What would you recommend for my 68 Camaro? LS1, LS2 or other?
What things are important to know for the transplant?

Simmo
12-09-2011, 06:11 PM
Hey there. Non US too here, but lucky enough to have a lot of LS's around courtesy of GM Australia.

There is a lot of subtle differences, intakes, power ratings etc but if you plan to modify they're pretty insignificant.

One could write a book on your questions - if fact someone has. Jump on Amazon and get "How to build and modify GM LS Series Engines" J. Potak. They have heaps of other titles on swaps/mods as well.

Check out the Conversion/Hybrid section on ls1tech.com too.

Nice place of the world you are :)

Moabdude
12-12-2011, 12:29 PM
Thanks Simmo,
I checked LS1tech.com but not the answers to my questions.

Are there any others with suggestions?
LS1 or LS2?

Rybar
12-12-2011, 02:51 PM
I am considering an LS engine. I like the injection motors and the fuel efficiency of them. Gas is almost $ 10,-/gallon over here.

I see LS1 with 4L60 combo's for as low as $3000,- om Craigslist.
What is the difference between the Corvette and Camaro LS1.

What would you recommend for my 68 Camaro? LS1, LS2 or other?
What things are important to know for the transplant?

I'll try to answer some questions, not sure on efficiency but larger cubed LS2 should be a little better in the TQ dept. But could use a little more fuel can't be all that much though. Are you planning on leaving the motor stock or changing the cam, heads or anything else?

Corvette and Camaro LS1's have different accessory drives and oil pans from the factory.

The main thing to know to transplant an LS into your car is finding a set of motor mounts, headers, oil pan and stand alone computer/wire harness that all works together in your car. There are now numerous companies making these parts so start researching and see what fits your budget.

randy
12-12-2011, 09:08 PM
what would be good book to read about LS engines and the best LS combo?

Ron in SoCal
12-13-2011, 09:51 AM
Hey Bram - LS1 or 2s, doesn't much matter if you can attain your performance goals and within budget. Heck, a 5.3 can be found here for $500 and with heads and a cam can make 475 fwhp! LS1s are considered Gen 3 and LS2s Gen 4 architecture. Both are well supported by the aftermarket.

A good place to start is the stickies on PT:
http://www.pro-touring.com/forumdisplay.php?75-The-LSX-Forum

Also poke around on LS1tech.com. There's great info there! My personal choice would be a LS2 for the cubes with a throw some L92 heads and a cam and see 500hp+ all day long.

One thing to add to Rybar's comment is fuel system mods. There's lots of options there as well! :thumbsup:

John510
12-15-2011, 02:26 AM
LS1 is already 10 years old. Wired throttle. (Some people like this)

LS2 will give you drive by wire. Only difference between camaro and corvette engine is the front accessory setup and oilpan. Internally they are the same.

But yeah the drive by wire is the way to go. That being said you should save more $$$$ and go LS3. 6.2 vs 6.0 More torque and a tad more power.


All LS will install pretty much the same. No matter what LS engine you go with you will need all the swap parts like mounts, ECM, driveshaft, harness, oil pan that clears frame, front drive, etc. Those are the parts that add up quick.

It all really comes down to how much you want to spend.

6D9 Matt
12-15-2011, 02:47 PM
Would $8-10k get you a turnkey LS3 setup for a 67-69 Camaro? Im hoping to go LS3 eventually... or maybe LS2 if I dont have the money for LS3.

The Patch
12-17-2011, 11:15 AM
Would $8-10k get you a turnkey LS3 setup for a 67-69 Camaro? Im hoping to go LS3 eventually... or maybe LS2 if I dont have the money for LS3.

http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/ls2-6-0l-small-block-v-8-470-hp/

http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/products/LS3-6.2L-Small-Block-V%252d8-480-HP.html

John510
12-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Would $8-10k get you a turnkey LS3 setup for a 67-69 Camaro? Im hoping to go LS3 eventually... or maybe LS2 if I dont have the money for LS3.

I found a brand new LS3 crate on LS1 tech for 5K. Stainless headers are 1100, driveshaft 300, mounts are cheap, harness/pcm tune/and dbw parts were 800 from PSI

Search LS1 tech everyday and new crate motors show up every now and then for cheap.

Moabdude
12-18-2011, 01:17 PM
Sounds good but how much does a total conversion cost?
Engine 5k and how much for the rest?
What is the rest? pulleys, wiring?

Thanks

The Patch
12-18-2011, 01:49 PM
My personal choice would be a LS2 for the cubes with a throw some L92 heads and a cam and see 500hp+ all day long.

:dance:

John510
12-18-2011, 04:57 PM
Sounds good but how much does a total conversion cost?
Engine 5k and how much for the rest?
What is the rest? pulleys, wiring?

Thanks

See my post right above yours and I mentioned the costs of stuff. That is what I spent. You can go cheaper or more expensive its totally up to you. By that I mean you can get an AC bracket to move it higher and use the factory front drive(or just notch your sub) or you can buy an actual front drive kit like Wegner, Billet Specialties, etc. Wiring you can do it yourself or buy a premade harness. You can get cheaper headers off Ebay or buy ATS.

I did forget to mention my gas tank since I havent bought one yet. 400-1600$

Go on LS1 tech and STUDY. There is a conversions tab and posts where people get VERY detailed about whats needed. People are putting these motors in everything. Saw one in a new G35 coupe a while back.. Insane!

Moabdude
01-06-2012, 02:55 AM
I almost bought a LS1 4L60E combo of a 98 Camaro............
But I was told 2 things the other day:
- do not buy a 1998 or 1999 LS1(after 2000 engines are better)
- a 700R4 is easier than a 4L60E (I have a 700R4 laying around)
So I just have to buy the Engine and can use my 700R4.

what is your opinion on this?

67ragtp
01-06-2012, 07:30 AM
Bram,

Im not an expert but having watched my son(18) grenade a 5.7 liter ls1(2002 camaross). The car had 125000 miles, broke a rod and punched through the engine block and pan. He decided to go with the ls2 6.0 liter block and build it up from there. I learned a lot from him, these cylinder blocks do not have very thick bore liners in them and the ls2's I believe are much more desirable. He does all his own machine work so he took the block out to 4.005 and installed a stroker crank and weisco rotating assembly from a company called K1. So I imagine its probably somewhere over 400 cubes now. No clearancing to the engine block to fit the crank, the biggest problem we had was getting the reluctor wheel to spin true with less than .010 run out. They press the wheel on the crank and it runs out like 1/16" send it back to them and they return it at .040, very frustrating, pressed one on ourselves, chocked it up in the crank grinder and tap tap tap until its straight, got to check everything these days. And the nice thing is the ls2 will fit the ls3 heads with the larger square ports. These heads flow pretty well dead stock and all he did was pressure check them and install his springs to match his cam, crazy cheap for the heads like 300.00 a piece new from gm. Tons of take off ls3 manifolds out there cheap from all the maggy SC conversions going on. Stock ls1 computor and 24 tooth reluctor will get it running with a new tune. Should make a fair amount of torque. I think theres a lot more options with the ls2 and possibly a bit more durability.

Probably more info than you need but having slightly modified my ls7 and helping my son go through this build gives me a real good perspective on this engine platform that gm designed. Im an old school guy having built tons of sb/bb chevys. These LS engines are great technology, just the new design gaskets they use are light years ahead of the old stuff, I cant imagine a chevy not leaking oil, they solved it.

Rich

John510
01-19-2012, 12:33 AM
I almost bought a LS1 4L60E combo of a 98 Camaro............
But I was told 2 things the other day:
- do not buy a 1998 or 1999 LS1(after 2000 engines are better)
- a 700R4 is easier than a 4L60E (I have a 700R4 laying around)
So I just have to buy the Engine and can use my 700R4.

what is your opinion on this?

1998
Had differnet casting heads which had perimeter bolts and valve covers.
Ignition coils were mounted to the valve covers one at a time.
1998-1999 LS1 cars had a smaller throttle body cam, which caused the throttle to open to WOT faster than 2000+ cars
1998 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors from the factory
1998-2000 cars had a larger cam than the 01-02 cars
1998-1999 cars had more restrictive exhaust manifolds
1998-2000 cars had an LS1 intake with EGR
1998 only LS1 blocks had a much smaller cylinder sleeve that only tolerated a .005" hone
1998 only cars had a different PCV system with the PCV valve located above the passenger side valve cover
1998 cars have a completely different PCM from 99+ cars
A production shortage of F-body cams caused the use of a C5 cam to be installed in F-body LS1s for a very short time

1999
1999-2000 cars switched to 26 lb fuel injectors
Cylinder heads and valve covers redesigned to have center bolts instead of perimeter bolts. Other than that, the heads were the same.
Redesigned cylinder sleeves that allowed for a small bore, up from .005" in 1998 models.
1999 cars continued the LS1 intake with EGR provisions
1999 cars continued more restrictive exhaust manifolds and larger cam

2000
2000 continued use of LS1 Intake, EGR, smaller cam, and 26 lb fuel injectors
Throttle body cam was increased in size to slow the speed at which the car reaches WOT

2001
A small percentage of 2001 and 2002 LS1s actually had LS6 blocks which had a different part number and a darker metal cast
Starting 2001, all LS1s came with an LS6 intake manifold without an EGR system
Advertised HP output was changed from 305 to 310 on base LS1s and from 320 to 325 on WS6s and SSs
2001-02 cars have a smaller cam from the Vortec truck engines to increase low end torque
2001-02 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors like the 98 cars (albeit different part numbers)

2002 - Last year of the F-body
2002 LS1 head gaskets redesigned. The new ones are a pressed metal, as opposed to the graphite ones and are no longer specific to the side of the car theyre installed on
2002 cars continued with the LS6 intake, 28 lb fuel inectors and smaller truck cam
2002 continued the use of an LS6 block in some LS1 F-bodies
A factory supported optional 345 HP option could be ordered from SLP


The difference between the ls1 and ls6 block is the weight, casting material and the bay to bay breathing windows.

For the vette - LS1 or LS6 check the 8th charachter of the VIN #, I believe G is the code for LS1 and S is the code for LS6 (only 2001+ Z06 Corvettes will have the S tho).

The ls6 casting number is 12561168.

The LS6 will have center bolt valve covers, not perimeter like the 97-98, but most LS1's are center bolt. There is also a casting number on LS6 heads, thats the best way to tell if your messing with a ls6 headed motor (blocks are minor difference, just like the LT1/LT4 blocks are different)

TALKING BLOCK CASTING #s HERE

12561168 was used on all 2001-2002 LS6, mid year 2001 and up LS1 cars (F&Y). I believe even the early 2001 Vettes have the LS6 style. Early 2001 F bodies are running the 2000 style LS1 block 12559378 or 12560626. 12560626 was suppose to be a change over casting, (which I beleive is made by the same casting company as the LS6 block) late 2000-early 2001 (smooth no ribs in valley and no mod needed for LS6 PCV cover) and has a dark gray casting like the LS1/LS6 block #12561168.


All 01+ LS motors have the "improved" rod bolts that went into production in 01 (pre 01 rod bolts had some "problems" that showed up in GrandAm racing). The rods, crank, and pistons are the same for all years (except for the 02 coated pistons) but in an LS6 MOTOR (FULL LS6....going into a Z06), the rotating assembly is balanced more closely due to the "higher" red line.

The rod bolts, oil pump (again....pre 01/LS6 pumps are not so good), timing chain, and intake manifold are all the same on 01 and up LS motors (LS1 or LS6).

The LS6 block and heads are "better" than the LS1 block (though Darton says they prefer to sleeve an LS1 block over an LS6 because the breathing holes in the bottom of the bores of an LS6 remove some of the material the sleeves use..... ...so there is something else to think about).

Starting in 03, just about all blocks are LS6 as the LS1 block has been phased out (if you look on a 04 C5s, the blocks are the "dark" LS6 sand cast version). If you go down to the GM dealer and order a replacement block, you will get an LS6 . The LS6 heads only come on an "LS6" motor (Z06) and have a D shaped exhaust port that gives a good 5 - 20 extra HP depending on the application (cam, port job, CI, etc....).


LS1 Tech needs to be your new best friend........

Simmo
01-19-2012, 02:56 AM
^^^^Good post.

Might be worth PM'ing daytonayallaz (Travis) instead of going with a random Craigslist buy. He moves a fair number of LS pull outs and every post I've read on here and PT.com cant speak highly enough of him and his after sales back-up.

You dont wana spend all that money on shipping a dud!

John510
01-19-2012, 01:47 PM
Moabdude,
I just read your car build post (I really just looked at pictures because I don't speak dutch) and watched the videos. Your 400sbc is awesome! You have a killer car. I would recommend a nicer/newer motor than a LS1. With that nice of a car Id recommend a crate LS3 since it will come to you in perfectly clean condition. Your car will be worth more also. Its really hard to get a used LS1 to look pretty since a lot of them are weathered. Your car is way too clean to put in a weathered motor.

Keep checking www.ls1tech.com in the for sale section. There are new crate engines on there all the time for cheap.

Moabdude
01-19-2012, 02:38 PM
Rich, John, Simmo, all thanks for the information.
John thats a very good overview over all the years the LS1 was made.

Also thanks for reading my post on the dutch forum. And thanks for the compliments.:bow:
No worries about the Dutch, looking at the pictures says enough.

I was thinking about an LS2 or 3 but they are way more pricy than an LS1.
I don't really care for a lot of horsepower so around 350 is fine for me.
The LS1 with 4L60 is available for around $3k.
The LS3 alone is already at least $4k.